Why is Cait Sith a hated character? (Serious Question)

[MJN SEIFER]

I'm a fan of this game.

I really don't get why he's hated, he's a fun character to use, an important part of the plot, I can still take the character seriously, and he is used in many of my main teams.

Is it because he's not human? I doubt it, because Red XIII seams to be a liked character.

Is it because he only has two Limit Breaks? Stupid reasons, because Slots is like a load of Limit Breaks in one.

Is it because he's a "Weak" character? Again a strange reason, because like all FFVII characters anyone can be your best character if you level them up correctly.

[Sephex]

He doesn't have spikey hair, a long sword, or a piss poor attitude that socially awkward people identify with.

[Rostum]

I liked him a lot better when I found out it was Reeve controlling him. Before that, he felt like an incredibly random character that didn't fit in anywhere.

So yes, I like him and it pisses me off that the big moogle toy wasn't in Dirge of Cerberus. :)

[Vermachtnis]

He attacks with a megaphone! WTF is that!?

Seriously though I don't get it either. I don't really use him all that much, but I don't go out of my way to not use him either.

[Elly]

for me it's because with one mistake in his slots and you can get the "Game Over" screen...

[seiferalmasy2]

I have an ongoing project to remove this character and replace him with a new one (Skoll Iscarit) that I have made. The reasons I hate Cait are:

1. His story is absurd. We have here a talking mechanical cat and a stuffed toy roaming about in what is supposed to be a reasonably realistic story. Look at how he enters your party for starters "I am coming with you no matter WHAT you say" to boot with a flimsy Fortune Teller story.

2. The idea this cat would be used by Reeve is silly. The idea that your party would converse with it is even more silly.

3. Cait looks stupid and is obviously a marketing ploy to sell stuffed toys.

4. He has 2 limit breaks and they are worthless (aside from the very hard "All Over" [game over] which will destroy your party should you line it up wrong)

He is a completely useless, unrealistic character (and by unrealistic I mean you cannot suspend disbelief).

He is the only thing I find unbearable about FF7 aside from the mediocre translation job.

I direct you here:

Break-Off.co.uk - The Forum For Snooker Debate • View topic - Get Rid Of Cait Sith Project (http://break-off.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=805)

[MJN SEIFER]

I have an ongoing project to remove this character and replace him with a new one (Skoll Iscarit) that I have made. The reasons I hate Cait are:

I have respect for you, and I am a fan of your project (the translation one, NOT the Remove Cait one) so I will try to answer as respectfully as I can as I value your opinion - I just don't agree with it.


1. His story is absurd. We have here a talking mechanical cat and a stuffed toy roaming about in what is supposed to be a reasonably realistic story. Look at how he enters your party for starters "I am coming with you no matter WHAT you say" to boot with a flimsy Fortune Teller story.

It's harder to tell with the way FFVII designed party's, but I see what you mean about this, however - concider that the place they find him is the Gold Saucer, so it can be assumed that he is an attraction like those "chocobos" they have running around (could be guys in costumes, then again could be robots) so Cloud and co, shouldn't be too weirded out by him, once they get over the initial shock - on the other hand; they may assume he is "alive" at that point, they already have one talking animal in their party, why should this one be any different? I agree that the way he kind of forces his way into the group is a bit strange, but I let it go I think we're supposed to assume that he follows you and your second character, and they joins you later. Also the fortune telling is for forshadowing later scenes. And I think that if you go with the fact that he COULD be part of the Gold Saucer, and Shinra later told Reeve to regain control of him to spy on Cloud - he could be originally made for fortune telling, alternativly it could be Reeve who tells the fortunes?


2. The idea this cat would be used by Reeve is silly. The idea that your party would converse with it is even more silly.

Again, they already have an animal in the group. Reeve may have used that to his advantage, further more I strongly believe that Cait was originally made for the Gold Saucer - it's even got pictures of him! I think this was the easiest way Shinra could have entered with out sending someone themselves, also it helps with the Black Materia problem - with out a character like Cait the whole thing goes wrong, and you can't get it.


3. Cait looks stupid and is obviously a marketing ploy to sell stuffed toys.

Never seen any Cait Sith toys, but isn't that true for most "animal" characters - they've got the WHOLE cast of Pokemon for one thing.


4. He has 2 limit breaks and they are worthless (aside from the very hard "All Over" [game over] which will destroy your party should you line it up wrong)

Well personally, I find Slots pretty helpful its moves are fun to do, and I just love the randomness of it - it's fun not knowing what you get sometimes, the only problem is I wish "Toy Box" (or whatever it's called for you) did more damage - I know it's a penalty, but...


He is a completely useless, unrealistic character (and by unrealistic I mean you cannot suspend disbelief).

Well... Concidering all I've said, and the fact that a controlled toy COULD be made in a world like FFVII's, I CAN suspend disbelief very easily.

That's my opinion on the matter.

[seiferalmasy2]

, they already have one talking animal in their party, why should this one be any different?

because the other is a biological being with an entire history. Cait is a none living mechanical cat mounted on top of a stuffed toy, supposedly remote controlled by Reeve. It is just absurd.

[Rostum]

I think someone here takes the game too seriously. :D

[seiferalmasy2]

I think someone here takes the game too seriously. :D

There is nothing wrong with expecting and desiring a decent plot. FF7 on the whole has a great plot (I consider it the greatest for a game so far). Being a game does not make it exempt and there is no shame in taking a story seriously, to do otherwise in what is a character/story driven game is rather lame.

One of FF7's biggest strengths is its story, and it is fantastic to see how so many people (yourself included it would seem), fail to see why story must be good with such a game.

The retorts I always get for criticising a story are

"it is just a game"
"it is a fantasy"
"it is a sci fi"
"it doesn't matter"
"you take it too seriously"

If you ask me, that is just a poor excuse for saying you don't care about a story or simply don't understand why it is important in a game like Final fantasy. It isn't even close to constructive reasoning either, it is just an attempt at diversion by attacking the person and not the argument.

[Laddy]

I think the fact that Cait Sith is so crazy is the reason the plot worked.

I do think it requires more belief suspension than say, a Quina or Nanaki.

[Depression Moon]

Cait sith sucks. He equips a megaphone for combat but doesn't even use it. It's the mog doll that actually attacks. I don't see how the party wouldn't question hus existence. XIII had a good reason for going with them and Cait Sith just randomly came along. The mog thing isn't obviously alive as there are no moogles in VII's world. It was bizarre why no one questioned him and how randomly a new comes along after that Temple of the Ancients segment.


His limit break has the potential to kill himself and that's a no no.

Fifth reason is that he was a traitor to the party.

[line_genrou]

I don't care for him.
And after he we think he sacrifices himself to get the black materia from the temple of the ancients,there's another one?? That was a huge turn off.

[Marshall Banana]

He equips a megaphone for combat but doesn't even use it. It's the mog doll that actually attacks. I don't see how the party wouldn't question hus existence. XIII had a good reason for going with them and Cait Sith just randomly came along. The mog thing isn't obviously alive as there are no moogles in VII's world. It was bizarre why no one questioned him and how randomly a new comes along after that Temple of the Ancients segment.


His limit break has the potential to kill himself and that's a no no.

Fifth reason is that he was a traitor to the party.
Cait Sith is one of the best characters of FFVII for these reasons!

By the way, I think the super serious scene in which Cait Sith No. 2 pops up and introduces himself is hilarious. :kaolaugh:

[Jessweeee♪]

I like Cait Sith :(

[Rostum]

There is nothing wrong with expecting and desiring a decent plot. FF7 on the whole has a great plot (I consider it the greatest for a game so far). Being a game does not make it exempt and there is no shame in taking a story seriously, to do otherwise in what is a character/story driven game is rather lame.

One of FF7's biggest strengths is its story, and it is fantastic to see how so many people (yourself included it would seem), fail to see why story must be good with such a game.

The retorts I always get for criticising a story are

"it is just a game"
"it is a fantasy"
"it is a sci fi"
"it doesn't matter"
"you take it too seriously"

If you ask me, that is just a poor excuse for saying you don't care about a story or simply don't understand why it is important in a game like Final fantasy. It isn't even close to constructive reasoning either, it is just an attempt at diversion by attacking the person and not the argument.

You need to calm down and realise you're making a lot of assumptions about how I truely feel or about my knowledge on the subject. You know what they say about people who assume!

By the way, excluding FFXII, all Final Fantasy games have cheesy and childish story lines that cater to its target demograph (i.e. 15 year old boys), they are in no way indicative of good writing in any form of literature. So don't go spouting your nonsense to me, please.

The fact that you're going so far as to remove a character and replace it with a new model, texture, possible rig and animation (unless you reuse another character's), for another person's IP is just proof that you are taking it too seriously. I just don't think it's right to crap all over a group of people's vision just because you personally think you know better.

[Momiji]

I hated Cait Sith less than most of the FFVII characters.

[Raistlin]

Cait Sith was an entertaining character. An obnoxious robot controlled by a sympathetic Shinra worker? That sounds pretty interesting to me.

Cait Sith and Yuffie are the two most unjustly maligned characters from FF7's (the Yuffie-centered sidequest of her stealing all of your materia was one of the most interesting parts of the game).

[seiferalmasy2]

By the way, excluding FFXII, all Final Fantasy games have cheesy and childish story lines that cater to its target demograph (i.e. 15 year old boys), they are in no way indicative of good writing in any form of literature. So don't go spouting your nonsense to me, please.

The fact that you're going so far as to remove a character and replace it with a new model, texture, possible rig and animation (unless you reuse another character's), for another person's IP is just proof that you are taking it too seriously. I just don't think it's right to crap all over a group of people's vision just because you personally think you know better.

Firstly, your response was sarcastic and offputting, which is why you recieved the response you did and you deserved such a response. Secondly, I don't think "I know better", you have a choice whether to install the new character, complete with a new storyline, or leave Cait. You call it taking it too seriously. Fine. You don't care for a decent story for the character, but some of us do. Don't go red in the face, just don't install the mod.

I am not attacking your right to like that oversized stuff toy, I only criticise the character and offer alternative. I am sorry if you don't like that, deal with it. :D

[Breine]

1. He betrays the group (although he gets all goody goody later on)
2. He looks goofy - or the big white cat thing he's riding looks goofy.
3. He only has two different limit breaks.


I don't know.. maybe those three have something to do with it. I don't really have anything against him myself, although I've honestly never used him that much. I think I remember using him some more in my last playthrough, though.
- I'll give him some more chances in the future.

[Mirage]

1. He betrays the group (although he gets all goody goody later on)
2. He looks goofy - or the big white cat thing he's riding looks goofy.
3. He only has two different limit breaks.


Dude, he's riding a fat moogle doll.

I don't really hate the character, but I never really used him in battle because his limit breaks are unreliable. I dislike depending on luck too much in my games.

That being said, I didn't really notice a lot of things in the game that made me like him either. Getting the black materia doesn't count, cause he was just expending a replacable bot. Nothing special or emotional about that, just practical :p.

[Moon Rabbits]

1. His story is absurd. We have here a talking mechanical cat and a stuffed toy roaming about in what is supposed to be a reasonably realistic story. (also he is roaming around the Golden Saucer when you meet him - he fits right in, love love love). Look at how he enters your party for starters "I am coming with you no matter WHAT you say" to boot with a flimsy Fortune Teller story.

HAHAHAHAHA HO HO HO HOHO HO HO HAHAAHHA LOLOLOLOLOLOL GEE HEEE HEEE HEE HAR HAR HAR *gasp* OOOOOOOH HO HO HO. Seriously. LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO~~~~~~

I forgot that squatting contests at gay gyms to win wigs, anatomically impossible boobs, chocobo races, a random purple ghost "chocobo sage" that lives at the North Pole, an interstellar destroyer of worlds that can shapeshift and also has big boobs, gravity-defying hair, twenty foot long swords, snowboarding mini games with random balloons floating everywhere, magical orbs of crystalized souls that give you MAGIC, a shapeshifting vampire, a talking red dog-cat-warrior-mystic thing, and floating old men were totally realistic. Oh yeah and Barrett has a gun for an arm.

lololololololololololol. URRRRRRRR FUNNEEEEEEEE~~~

Also this:


Cait Sith was an entertaining character. An obnoxious robot controlled by a sympathetic Shinra worker? That sounds pretty interesting to me.

Cait Sith and Yuffie are the two most unjustly maligned characters from FF7's (the Yuffie-centered sidequest of her stealing all of your materia was one of the most interesting parts of the game).

[seiferalmasy2]

Is that supposed to be constructive debate?

Any case: If you read what I wrote you will seee I clearly state that we all know this is fantasy and that obviously some things are allowed and are turned a blind eye to but when it is a main character who is central to the MAIN PLOT, I would have thought it obvious that a toy cat on a stuffed toy does not cut the mustard.

There is a big difference. LIke usual the come back to the criticism completely fails to understand what a story is and what "suspension of disbelief" is. Until you understand these basic concepts you can't really have a proper opinion on it. :) ho ho ho hahaha hehehe wheeeee . err. yeah.

[Slothy]

It was bizarre why no one questioned him and how randomly a new comes along after that Temple of the Ancients segment.

These are the big reasons he bothers me. I don't hate him, but the story in FFVII is a lot weaker with him.

I mean, there have been plenty of poor explanations for characters joining parties before, but that doesn't make Cait Sith's any more acceptable. I'm pretty sure if some random mechanical cat on a Moogle doll tried to join my party for no other reason than to supposedly see how a fortune turns out I'd be saying thanks but no thanks. Add to that his complete lack of development until you find out he betrayed you, the weak revelation that Reeve was controlling him, and a death scene that was utterly cheapened by Cait Sith v.2.0 showing up immediately after the first dies and the whole thing is pretty sad.

Everything involving him in the story could have been re-written to make it a lot less absurd than it was. Hell, they could have kept the Cat riding a Moogle so long as his backstory was changed and they didn't half ass every plot twist that involved him.

[Marshall Banana]

I'm pretty sure if some random mechanical cat on a Moogle doll tried to join my party for no other reason than to supposedly see how a fortune turns out I'd be saying thanks but no thanks.
Are you kidding? You wouldn't be able to resist his cuteness and charm.

Has anyone mentioned Cait Sith's theme music yet? It's great!

[Moon Rabbits]

Is that supposed to be constructive debate?

No, I tried to make that obvious though :redface:



Any case: If you read what I wrote you will seee I clearly state that we all know this is fantasy and that obviously some things are allowed and are turned a blind eye to but when it is a main character who is central to the MAIN PLOT, I would have thought it obvious that a toy cat on a stuffed toy does not cut the mustard.

The shapeshifting vampire, talking cat-dog-mystic-warrior thing, the men with gun arms, the interstellar alien with blue boobs, and floating old man are all also central to the MAIN PLOT.



There is a big difference. LIke usual the come back to the criticism completely fails to understand what a story is and what "suspension of disbelief" is. Until you understand these basic concepts you can't really have a proper opinion on it. :) ho ho ho hahaha hehehe wheeeee . err. yeah.

:confused: I'm fairly certain I know what a story is. As for suspension of disbelief ... uh, shouldn't the existence of a giant talking doll sort of fall under that category :confused::confused::confused:

[Slothy]

The shapeshifting vampire, talking cat-dog-mystic-warrior thing, the men with gun arms, the interstellar alien with blue boobs, and floating old man are all also central to the MAIN PLOT.

Well, let's be fair; Vincent isn't really central to the plot at all. :p

[seiferalmasy2]

I'm pretty sure if some random mechanical cat on a Moogle doll tried to join my party for no other reason than to supposedly see how a fortune turns out I'd be saying thanks but no thanks.

Hahaha spot on :P

I would also add that the story is weakened by Cait. To have that thing roaming about with your party makes the plot look stupid and the plot is dealing with some serious issues:

Death, Misery, Suffering, prison, Friendships, Suicide...they are all in the game, and having a bouncing stuffed toy in the middle of it just ruins the dramatic side to things.

[vinnie's mini's]

I don't really have a problem with Cait Sith myself - Sure I didn't fall madly in love with him but neither did I hate him to the extent that I couldn't look at him. I'll admit that I didn't use him much in my party as there were other characters which I prefered over him.

I quite agree that his whole storyline and entrance to the party could use improvement. I myself found it a little strange how he simply forced himself into the party without Cloud (Or any of the other characters) seemingly putting up a fight to force him back out of the party. I don't know, perhaps Cloud has a secret love for stuffed animals perhaps?

Looking past this however, I did find the idea that Reeve was controlling him as a spy for Shinra interesting. I thought it was a different way for a character to be involved in combat without physically being there. I don't find it strange that someone would create something to fight in their place if they themselves weren't capable of physically doing it - Come on Reeve looks like an office kind of guy ;D

So yeah, I'm kind of neutral towards the little guy. I found him to be random, slightly entertaining and cute to boot.

[Slothy]

Looking past this however, I did find the idea that Reeve was controlling him as a spy for Shinra interesting. I thought it was a different way for a character to be involved in combat without physically being there. I don't find it strange that someone would create something to fight in their place if they themselves weren't capable of physically doing it - Come on Reeve looks like an office kind of guy ;D

I won't disagree with any of that necessarily, but I do find it odd that the director of urban development would be controlling a mechanical cat as a Shinra spy. I think they could have easily established a separate character to join the party and actually be working for Shinra, or take an established Shinra employee and have them defect but then turn. Heck, even having Shinra manipulate a character might have worked better. I just don't think Reeve controlling him worked because it raised the wrong kind of questions, like how were you supposed to know the cat was mechanical and why the hell would they pick Reeve to control it. It just came out of nowhere and doesn't make much sense when you think about it too hard.

[seiferalmasy2]

. I think they could have easily established a separate character to join the party and actually be working for Shinra, or take an established Shinra employee and have them defect but then turn.

My character does much the same, he is spying on you works for shinr-ra and I won't spoil the rest :) BUt I have thought about it and how to develop the character over time.

[Moon Rabbits]

I would also add that the story is weakened by Cait. To have that thing roaming about with your party makes the plot look stupid and the plot is dealing with some serious issues:

Death, Misery, Suffering, prison, Friendships, Suicide...they are all in the game, and having a bouncing stuffed toy in the middle of it just ruins the dramatic side to things.

Weren't you griping at me to learn the elements of a STORRRRRRY? Maybe you should look up comic relief.

[leader of mortals]

I don't like Cait Sith, and I think I know why. When I was a kid, I never really understood the story when I played this game, and so how much I liked the characters was really based on how much I liked them in battle, and I really hated using Cait Sith in battle(I also never used to like Aeris, because I never liked using her either).

Actually, I think I still do this a bit. In FF12, I really don't care too much for Basch, Fran, and Penelo, because I always used the other 3, and in FF10, I don't care too much for Lulu, because I never used her much either.

Edit: Also, guys. Make a point without flaming, please.

[black orb]

>>> Cait Sith had the potential to become a legendary character, but two things totally killed him: :luca:
1- His weapon, a frigging Megaphone! you cant get any lamer than that..
2- The fat/pink/slow/ugly robot he was controlling..

[Dignified Pauper]

Clearly, part of the reason his joining is so unbelievable is likely due to the translation.

[Slothy]

Clearly, part of the reason his joining is so unbelievable is likely due to the translation.

How? There's almost no reaction from the party to his joining. I would expect that a poor translation would just poorly translate dialogue, not cut dialogue entirely given the PSX had no issues with storing dialogue like previous systems. Perhaps you're implying that Cait Sith's dialogue was poorly translated, but what he says isn't the problem. The fact that no characters question his joining is.

Unless of course you read Japanese and know something I don't about the original Japanese script?

[seiferalmasy2]

Clearly, part of the reason his joining is so unbelievable is likely due to the translation.

No, it isn't actually much different. The 1 part that is different is the temple of the ancients. He says that he is really a controlled robot and that he is replacable. This is kinda lost in the english version and looks instead to mean that he is dying...only for another to spring up.

The translation for him arriving is much the same.

[leader of mortals]

Well, and I'm kinda trying to be serious and unserious at the same time here, maybe in Japan this sort of thing is more accepted. Not fully accepted, but more than us.

[MJN SEIFER]

This is getting to be a bad habit of mine; Starting a thread and then not responding to it until there are so many replies...

To anyone who's mentioned the megaphone: What this basically is, is that Cait shouts through the megaphone and the "toy" attacks - the better the megaphone, the harder the toy will attack. Yes it is pretty silly, but I get it - they probably couldn't think of anything else for him to use, pluss it also had to be something stupid for Cloud to bypass the HP Shout near the start of the game.

To anyone who's said that Cait betrayed the team: Well... Did he really? Think about it, he never really caused any physical harm to any of the team, he saved the people of Midgar, he not only got the Black Materia out of the temple, but he also kept his promise not to give it to the Shinra, and for the remainder of the game he was there to make sure that the team knew in advance what the Shinra where doing. Actually you are right; he was a traitor - to the Shinra.


to seiferalmasy2: I can see your points on the matter, and I agree that saying that you are "taking things too seriously" is indead a stupid argument, so I am on your side there.

The thing about Red XIII - it is based on the probability that the team didn't know Cait wasn't a "real animal", so they probably thought "Oh, a talking animal - that's new(!)" I agree that the way he joins the party is poorly scripted, and although I've never seen the original translation on that scene - I trust you, because I know how much work you've put into resarching the translation. I think that the reason it looks so strange is because in FFVII your allies "dissapear" when they're not needed, so I think that Cait simply followed Cloud and Whoever in that scene, and ended up "officially" joining them later on.

Finally on the Final Farewell scene, again I don't know the actual translation of the scene, but I don't think the scene ever implied he was going to die - we already know he's a toy, so we won't be fooled. What gave you the impression we where meant to think he'd die? (In the PSX traslation)

[Moon Rabbits]

Don't argue with seiferalmasy2, his opinion is fact! Contest it and you will be taken care of by his SCATHING PMs.

[seiferalmasy2]

We weren't meant to think he would die but the english script is rather dodgy and that sad music doesn't help. It looks a bit silly when he goes through all that with the way they presented it and then pops up "Hi I am number 2"

But the translation of that was poor.

Any case, the overall premise was so absurd that I could not suspend disbelief...When I have finished Skolls story, see what you think :)

[MJN SEIFER]

Don't argue with seiferalmasy2, his opinion is fact! Contest it and you will be taken care of by his SCATHING PMs.

That wasn't needed.


We weren't meant to think he would die but the english script is rather dodgy and that sad music doesn't help. It looks a bit silly when he goes through all that with the way they presented it and then pops up "Hi I am number 2"

But the translation of that was poor.

Any case, the overall premise was so absurd that I could not suspend disbelief...When I have finished Skolls story, see what you think :)

I have studied that scene, and the conclusion I cam up with is that the reason the scene presented sadly (complete with music) relates to another characters death, not his. I have it written down somewhere and I will give it a thread of it's own.

[blackmage_nuke]

He betrays you and you're expected to keep trusting him even though he has given you no reason to do so. I feel thats quite a plothole

[VeloZer0]

I'm not going for a thesis to explain this, but I have to throw my chips into the out of place crowd. Every screen he was in it just seemed like he didn't belong in the game. He just stuck out like a sore thumb. (Obviously I realize his importance to the story, I'm talking stylisticaly). If they had thrown in a cooler design for him I probably wouldn't have had anything against him.

(Yes, the megaphone was really lame, and by having only two limit breaks it just makes him feel that much set apart from the other characters)

[MJN SEIFER]

He betrays you and you're expected to keep trusting him even though he has given you no reason to do so. I feel thats quite a plothole

As I've already explained he does give you reasons to keep trusting him.


I'm not going for a thesis to explain this, but I have to throw my chips into the out of place crowd. Every screen he was in it just seemed like he didn't belong in the game. He just stuck out like a sore thumb. (Obviously I realize his importance to the story, I'm talking stylisticaly). If they had thrown in a cooler design for him I probably wouldn't have had anything against him.

(Yes, the megaphone was really lame, and by having only two limit breaks it just makes him feel that much set apart from the other characters)

I guess this a pure opinion thing, I didn't really notice that - I thought he fitted in just the right amount, but like say that's just my opinion.

And while I agree on the megaphone, I must remind you that "Slots" is multiple attacks so he doesn't need 7 Limit Breaks - Dice is just something to stop you getting something as fun as Slots straight away. It's like how Vincent only has 4 Limit Breaks, because each of his transformations have two attacks - those are his true Limit Breaks, just like Cait's true Limit Breaks are the skills that Slots give you.

[Mirage]

He betrays you and you're expected to keep trusting him even though he has given you no reason to do so. I feel thats quite a plothole

As I've already explained he does give you reasons to keep trusting him.


Such as "let me keep following you or we will kill marlene".

[VeloZer0]

I'm not saying that he has less diversity in limits, it is just one more thing that sets him apart from the other characters. It isn't something that would matter in isolation, it just factors in with everything about him.

[MJN SEIFER]

He betrays you and you're expected to keep trusting him even though he has given you no reason to do so. I feel thats quite a plothole

As I've already explained he does give you reasons to keep trusting him.


Such as "let me keep following you or we will kill marlene".

Suck as keeping his promise about the Black Materia (I know it wasn't a real "sacrifice" but he could have easily given it to the Shinra at that point, but he didn't) and (presumably single handedly) saving the people of Midgar (including Marlene).

I don't think he would have killed Marlene, I think that was just something Shinra did and he used it when he was found out and sent her to Kalm after.

[Levian]

He's a hated a character?

I didn't use him much, but I didn't dislike him. I just ended up not using him because he doesn't have any good limit breaks, isn't vital to the story and because by the time he joined the party I had grown attached to the other characters and would use them more.

[Breine]

1. He betrays the group (although he gets all goody goody later on)
2. He looks goofy - or the big white cat thing he's riding looks goofy.
3. He only has two different limit breaks.


Dude, he's riding a fat moogle doll.

meh.. moogles look like cats anyway :P

[Rostum]

If anything the series needs more fat moogle dolls! :love:

[Marshall Banana]

If anything the series needs more fat moogle dolls! :love:

[Moon Rabbits]

Also how is Cait Sith more out of place than Umaro, Gogo, Gau, Mog, Red XIII, Quina, Kimahri, or Fran :confused::confused::confused:

Or, you know, FuSoYa the magic moon man.

[Slothy]

Also how is Cait Sith more out of place than Umaro, Gogo, Gau, Mog, Red XIII, Quina, Kimahri, or Fran :confused::confused::confused:

Who ever said that Umaro, Gogo, Gau or Mog were out of place? And as for Quina, you can't really say that a strange creature is out of place when the game is crawling (no pun intended) with rat people and other races. Same with Fran, there are several other non-human races running around which makes it all seem pretty normal.

Mind you, I'm not saying the idea of a cat riding a giant moogle doll is out of place at all, though I can see how some would see it as more out of place in VII than similar non-human characters in other games.

[Saber]

For me it was him being a spy and then his FAKE death. I mean the game lays it out like its his moment but three mins later he is back. So yeah it ruined it for me. Plus he just isn't that great in battle. I've never found him good at anything that someone else wasn't better at.

[VeloZer0]

Umaro, Gogo, Gau, Mog, Red XIII, Quina, Kimahri, or Fran

I felt all of those were out of place except for Red XIII and Kimahri.
However, Umaro, Gogo & Mog never bothered me (I think) because
a) they were just side characters
b) the difference between them an the game style was a lot less stark. Should they remake this game with updated graphics I think I would take more issue with them.
Quina I hated with a passion, I couldn't wait for every scene he/she was in to end. (I seem to remember it's she, but not sure.)
Fran, and the Vera in general didn't fit the game to me, just a hold over from FFTA they were forced to include. (And probably some T&A to help boost some game sales.)
Had there been no Cosmo Canyon I don't think Red XIII would have bekonged, but by adding such an element into the word it is easy to see his place.
Kimahri didn't really have a lot to add to the story, (I could also argue that no one in FFX did :)), but I felt stylistically he fit right in with the world of Spira.

[Saber]

I think its just an issue of role playing. Its harder to get into a character your not like at all. While main characters are made to try and fit with a lot of people, or made just to be badass. It just depends on what kind of person you are. You may like Red XIII or the others cause of there character and in the end thats all it is. Another character.

[Rostum]

I'd hate to turn this into something more than FFVII, but Quina is one of the most awesome comical reliefs out of the series.

Love Quina! :love:

[Marshall Banana]

I'd hate to turn this into something more than FFVII, but Quina is one of the most awesome comical reliefs out of the series.

Love Quina! :love:

[leader of mortals]

Well, I only played FF6 as a little kid, and I sucked at games back then, so I don't remember any of the characters or story from that...

But RedXIII, Quina, Kimahri, and Fran are all members of a certain species, and have backstory telling why they are in the party.

Cait Sith, however, is a random machine, and there is no reason for why he is a mechanical cat riding a stuffed moogle.

[Raistlin]

Reeve obviously just has good taste.

[leader of mortals]

Reeve obviously just has good taste.

When I read this, I thought, "Oh, I am so totally aimkissing to that"

:aimkiss:

[WildRaubtier]

I don't know why people think his limit breaks are weak - when you get him, Slot is the most powerful attack in the game and stays there for a long time. People just seem to think that because it can't hit multiple times against enemies who'll die before the second hit anyway, it's useless, I guess.

[NeoCracker]

I don't know why people think his limit breaks are weak - when you get him, Slot is the most powerful attack in the game and stays there for a long time. People just seem to think that because it can't hit multiple times against enemies who'll die before the second hit anyway, it's useless, I guess.

...Well when it comes down to using a guy like Cait Sith, OR someone who can oneshot the entire enemy party, yeah, it seems kind of pointless to use him, especially since their limit breaks aren't really harder to get up, and it's not nearly as random.

And they don't have a chance of one shotting your own party.

[WildRaubtier]

I don't see how slots will ever one shot your own party.

When you get him, your normal limit breaks do around 500? damage. Slots does 300, minimum, and that's only if you're very unlucky. It averages out at ~800 a shot. Being a level 1 limit, you use it a lot more often than everyone else's who're usually around 2 or 3. Fury is even more fun. And it only gets stronger as the game progresses.

I've never seen or heard of anyone getting instant game over from slots.

By the time you get toys like Omnislash, etc., you're probably rocking a few Slash-Alls or 4x Cut materia, making uber level 4 limits still irrelevant against anything that isn't named WEAPON.

[VeloZer0]

Everyone else's limits all look way cooler.

Just saying...

[seiferalmasy2]

Do Shin-Ra have Psychologists? If so, they better let them loose on Reeve, who communicates via a stuffed body with a mechanical cat on top that uses a megaphone.

:jess:

[Raistlin]

More like they should examine every Shinra employee who doesn't communicate via robot cat on a giant moogle.

[VeloZer0]

Comparing Reeve to Rufus, Scarlet, Heidegger, Palmer & Hojo he comes out looking like a beacon of sanity.

[Bolivar]

b/c he's an easy target.

I love setting him up as a "Toysaurus" Job class. Manipulate, with a couple status effects like Transform, and HypnoCrown as his accessory and Cait Sith be rockin'.

[Wolf Kanno]

I've never really had a problem with Cait Sith and oddly I can't fathom how people feel he's out of place in VII's world. He's actually a decent fighter, his ultimate weapon makes him a total powerhouse since its exactly like the Ultima Weapon/Conformer and his Slots have that wonderful exemption rule that allows him to one shot Ruby and Emerald WEAPON.

I feel he shows a more playful side to Reeve and to the game as a whole, there are a lot of places in the plot that feel a bit off when you stop to think about them and while Cait might be one of them, I never felt he was a game breaker about it. My own personal issues with the plot come from the second disc anyway. :p

[nirojan]

cause he's a MOTHER $%^&$^%$$ SLEEZY SON OF $#^#%$^$!! THAT NEEDS TO SUCK A !@#!@#!!!

no kidding....cause Cloud stole the spotlight!

[RedPouch]

socially awkward people identify with.
You mean people that want to be socially awkward. Just so they can look "cool".


I have an ongoing project to remove this character and replace him with a new one (Skoll Iscarit) that I have made.
I'm totally confused. You were just giving a speech in the other topic about how you wanted to preserve the original integrity of FF VII with utmost accuracy in this project of yours. Now you're saying you want to completely remove a character and replace it with one of your own, which has absolutely nothing to do with the game [or any Final Fantasy for that matter]. I don't think you're taking this project as seriously as you claim, because this idea sounds a bit ridiculous. Regardless, if you want to remove a character that's useless trash and replace them with one of your own, then take out Yuffie. Unlike Cait Sith, her contribution to the characters and the story = 0/100 as opposed to Cait Sith's 10/100.

And by the way - I'm not actually suggesting you do that, because as much as I hate the useless bitch named Yuffie, replacing her worthess self with an original character would be equally as ridiculous.

[seiferalmasy2]

For the last time. No. 1 is a personal project to remove Cait. The other is a retranslation.

2 different projects. :cool:

The Cait replacing project will be placed on top of the retranslation. So, you may have the following combinations:

1. Retranslation with Cait (you will see me in anotjer post discussing how he has a scottish accent)
2. retranslation without Cait.

As for not taking it seriously, I would love to see you spend months trawling through hundreds of thousands of sources and katakana and through program files and hex files and discussions with translators and through pain staking all night sessions with nothing but dictionaries. Hundreds of hours work.... and then say that.

That is more ridiculous.

[RedPouch]

For the last time. No. 1 is a personal project to remove Cait. The other is a retranslation.

2 different projects.
No don't worry, I'm already aware of this. I just find it hard to believe that you won't mix the two after spending so much time on it.


As for not taking it seriously, I would love to see you spend months trawling through hundreds of thousands of sources and katakana and through program files and hex files and discussions with translators and through pain staking all night sessions with nothing but dictionaries. Hundreds of hours work.... and then say that.
College, minus the Katakana part. I think there are other elements of taking something "seriously" aside from just the obvious "putting a lot of work into it".


1. Retranslation with Cait (you will see me in anotjer post discussing how he has a scottish accent)
2. retranslation without Cait.
This is what I meant. Apparently you might be offering a re-translated version of the game without Cait Sith. I understand having a nice properly-translated version of the game [and improved graphics are always welcome], but I don't see the point in tinkering around with the original version beyond those parameters. I'd love to remove half the cast of FF VII and replace it with brand new characters, but then I'm pretty sure everyone would see it as being silly. While we're on this subject, I suggest that you might as well take out Yuffie too. Useless character, useless plot. Replace her with someone else.

But the fact that you're offering a re-translation without Cait Sith seems contradictory to the policy of making that re-translation. However, as long as you offer a version without messing around with the characters, I suppose I don't have too many complaints. And of course, you are free to do anything you want. It's up to someone else if they choose to download it or not.

[seiferalmasy2]

It isn't contradicting at all, if you give people a choice. On 1 hand, I recognise that a retranslation has to be accurate with all that goes with it.

That does not mean that I can't do another project to remove this flawed character, and every poll I have seen on this game lists him majority as the weak link.

THe bottom line is, everyone has choice and 1 project is professional, the other personal. I appreciate some people will not like the removal of Cait and that is why they get to choose. I only ask that people see it from another point of view and appreciate some of us think Cait is a walking mess.

[Madame Adequate]

Cait Sith is one of the best things about FFVII in my opinion.

[RedPouch]

Cait Sith is one of the best things about FFVII in my opinion.
I wouldn't say that much, but I really never had a problem with him. He was somewhat poorly written, but for some reason I find it very difficult to dislike his character [ignoring the universal complaint about his Limit Break]. I only wish that the party would've had a chance to interact with the "real" Reeve a little bit more.

[Moon Rabbits]

I didn't like Gimli.

brb re-writing LOTR.

[seiferalmasy2]

I didn't like Gimli.

brb re-writing LOTR.


Moon Rabbits, you can huff and puff all you like :D :jess:

[Moon Rabbits]

I didn't like Gimli.

brb re-writing LOTR.


Moon Rabbits, you can huff and puff all you like :D :jess:

I know that already.

[Mercen-X]

I like the cat. Not a big fan of big-fat moogles. It would have been funny if, in battle, Cait Sith and Red XIII had to be a single participant... with separate LIMIT Breaks!

[Madame Adequate]

Cait Sith is one of the best things about FFVII in my opinion.
I wouldn't say that much, but I really never had a problem with him. He was somewhat poorly written, but for some reason I find it very difficult to dislike his character [ignoring the universal complaint about his Limit Break]. I only wish that the party would've had a chance to interact with the "real" Reeve a little bit more.

I also like his limit breaks :p But I agree that I would have liked to see more of Reeve himself.