Used 360s - worth it?

[Flying Arrow]

There's a game store near my house selling used 360s for $110. Unless I have no idea what I'm talking about (possible), that seems awfully low for a next gen system, even a used one. Is this thing worth picking up? Are the failure rates really as high as I've read (upwards of 50%) and is that why it's so cheap?

I'm fairly new to this generation of consoles - I don't own any, unless you count the Nintendo DS. I've played a fair bit of Wii at a cousin's, some 360 here and there and absolutely no PS3. I originally wanted to pick up a PS3 slim because I'm really interested in Sony's recent and upcoming exclusives (Demon's Souls, Last Guardian, etc). But the thing is most of the next gen games I want to catch up on at the moment are multi-plats like Oblivion, Fallout 3, etc (I'm behind, I know), so the smart thing seems to be to get the 360, and then wait until the Slim drops in price (or at least starts showing up used) and then grab that plus its exclusives (which will no doubt start showing up used, too).

Anyway, if you're still reading - thoughts on the $110 360 deal? Worth it/not worth it? Good/bad investment? Is the failure rate blown out of proportion by fans and the gaming media?

Thanks in advance.

[Vyk]

Probably worth it, but I'd take not of their warranty on it first

[Shiny]

I wouldn't buy I used console unless it's refurbished. You may get the red ring of death.

[Psychotic]

I'd be very, very careful about getting a used 360. When one red rings, there's something called the towel trick (which involves wrapping the console up in towels, making it so hot that the broken parts solder together again or something like that) which can be used to temporarily fix the console, and people like to take advantage of this so that they can trade the broken console in. It'll work fine in the store, but after a while it'll break again.

[Slothy]

I'd be very, very careful about getting a used 360. When one red rings, there's something called the towel trick (which involves wrapping the console up in towels, making it so hot that the broken parts solder together again or something like that) which can be used to temporarily fix the console, and people like to take advantage of this so that they can trade the broken console in. It'll work fine in the store, but after a while it'll break again.

I doubt this would be a huge issue given that Microsoft has been replacing consoles that Red Ring years after they were purchased, but still, it's possible. I would be more concerned that a used console probably won't be eligible for Microsoft's warranty which leaves you with whatever the store will give. Given that the failure rate isn't blown out of proportion when talking about the older versiona of the console (though I bet Microsoft wishes it was), you need a warranty with a used one.

Unless they're willing to cover it for a few years at no extra charge it isn't worth the cost given the newer 360's aren't a lot more expensive than a used one with some extended warranty, and they're a lot less prone to failure.

[Bolivar]

I always buy the secondary consoles I've missed out on in a generation once their prices come down a lot for used systems and the 360 is my prime target for this gen, so this thread's question is really important to me.

The problem is that chances are, any used system you see is one that has already red ring'd and it seems systems that already have are prone to serial breakdowns. The newer systems are supposed to be a lot better, and the Elite models especially, but I continue to hear about their malfunctioning. I remember when 1-in-3/30% was the official failure rate, but with recent surveys it seems that it's around 60%. I just can't buy a console with the understanding that I will inevitably be sending it in to be repaired.

For that reason I've heard some stores have a plan where if your console breaks, you can return it and leave with a new one that very day, I think it's Wal-Mart. You should shop around and see what kind of in-store warrantees you can buy for refurbished models, that'll probably be my bet.

Of course, I can't come into this thread w/o my redundant "you should reconsider your ps3 purchase outlook" statement. At $300 it really isn't expensive anymore, especially for everything you get with it, and I'd be willing to bet there's more games already on it (for cheap used) and releasing imminently than you probably think. I know there's another thread in this forum somewhere listing all the exclusives for ps3 and 360 so you might want to take another look at that or do some more research.

Point being, this generation of consoles is well into its prime and you really can't go wrong with a ps3 or a 360 for that matter if you get one soon.

[Rad Bromance]

No way would I even consider buying a used 360. There's the RROD (which is inevitable and the fact that the system has age makes it closer to happening), the towel trick like Psychotic mentioned, then there's the fact that it could of been banned plus an array of other possibilities.

I wouldn't take issue buying any other console used, but the 360 just has too many potential negatives having been used. I'm actually surprised any retailer is selling them used, honestly.

[NorthernChaosGod]

The RROD is not inevitable...

Secondly, I'm sure if you call Live to tell them you bought a used system they would un-ban it.

[Iceglow]

The RROD is not inevitable...

Secondly, I'm sure if you call Live to tell them you bought a used system they would un-ban it.

Well firstly I agree everyone bitches on about the RROD, I have had my 20gb model for several years now (since around the time mass effect came out) No problems here. Also Microsoft offers a 5 year warranty on all 360s by default (hence I suggest getting a new one)

Secondly...If you brought a second hand console, Live would be under no obligations to unban you 1) they have probably heard this in the past as an attempt to get unbanned and 2) Microsoft make absoloutely no profit from the sale of the console which means they have no obligations to then help the owner of the console.

Personally, I suggest buying a new 360 super elite model the 250gb hd will be useful and since there are 2 or 3 packs for it, 1) forza 3, 2) MW2, and I believe they've done one for Dragon Age somewhere. If you won't get the super elite, get an elite and be done with it. The benefits of having a new console of any type far outstrip the benefit of lower cost for second hand consoles.

[NorthernChaosGod]

All valid points, but I'm sure if you could provide proof of buying it that they wouldn't maintain the ban. Sure, they didn't make money on that sale, but they'd make money on the Live subscription.

That being said, I'd probably get a new model myself to get the larger hard drive and a new game.

[Slothy]

The RROD is not inevitable...

Not inevitable, but you are literally flipping a coin on it if you buy a used model. The newer console designs aren't nearly as susceptible to it apparently which is why there is no reason to take the chance on a used console.

[NorthernChaosGod]

The RROD is not inevitable...

Not inevitable, but you are literally flipping a coin on it if you buy a used model. The newer console designs aren't nearly as susceptible to it apparently which is why there is no reason to take the chance on a used console.

Estimates range from about 20% to about 50%, but Microsoft has never released the actual statistics concerning the RROD failure rate, so it's not a definite 50-50 chance. Secondly, you're not literally flipping anything, unless you in fact buy the console and then flip a coin to see what your chances are.

[Slothy]

The RROD is not inevitable...

Not inevitable, but you are literally flipping a coin on it if you buy a used model. The newer console designs aren't nearly as susceptible to it apparently which is why there is no reason to take the chance on a used console.

Estimates range from about 20% to about 50%, but Microsoft has never released the actual statistics concerning the RROD failure rate, so it's not a definite 50-50 chance. Secondly, you're not literally flipping anything, unless you in fact buy the console and then flip a coin to see what your chances are.

Early reports put the failure rate at 20-30%, but most recent estimates I've seen put it at anywhere between 30-50% or possibly even higher. So assuming 50%, you really are pretty much flipping a coin since your odds of picking the right face of the coin are as good as getting a bum 360. But if you don't like that then we can assume 30% and say you have as much chance of picking two numbers on a six sided die and having them show up on a roll as you do getting a defective 360.

You won't get odds that good in Vegas. :p

[Bolivar]

Early reports put the failure rate at 20-30%, but most recent estimates I've seen put it at anywhere between 30-50% or possibly even higher. So assuming 50%, you really are pretty much flipping a coin since your odds of picking the right face of the coin are as good as getting a bum 360. But if you don't like that then we can assume 30% and say you have as much chance of picking two numbers on a six sided die and having them show up on a roll as you do getting a defective 360.

You won't get odds that good in Vegas. :p

Recent surveys have put it at somewhere between 50% (Game Informer) (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/17/game-informer-xbox-360-at-54-2-percent-failure-rate/) and 60% (CNET) (http://www.destructoid.com/xbox-360-failure-rate-in-uk-60-says-cnet-155457.phtml) but those are just surveys by gaming publications so I'm sure their methodologies aren't on par with the best. But I know personally myself that everyone I know who has had a 360 has had it red ring on them multiples times, nearly all of whom have gone on to buy Elites in the last 2 years which have red ringed as well.

I honestly don't know how to take the assurance that the newer generation/model/batch of 360's are less susceptible to Red Ring. We have no knowledge to base that on other than it's what they've told us. I know it's early to talk more price cuts, but I'll probably wait about a year or so to get a new arcade or elite when the price comes down.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Early reports put the failure rate at 20-30%, but most recent estimates I've seen put it at anywhere between 30-50% or possibly even higher. So assuming 50%, you really are pretty much flipping a coin since your odds of picking the right face of the coin are as good as getting a bum 360. But if you don't like that then we can assume 30% and say you have as much chance of picking two numbers on a six sided die and having them show up on a roll as you do getting a defective 360.

You won't get odds that good in Vegas. :p

Recent surveys have put it at somewhere between 50% (Game Informer) (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/17/game-informer-xbox-360-at-54-2-percent-failure-rate/) and 60% (CNET) (http://www.destructoid.com/xbox-360-failure-rate-in-uk-60-says-cnet-155457.phtml) but those are just surveys by gaming publications so I'm sure their methodologies aren't on par with the best. But I know personally myself that everyone I know who has had a 360 has had it red ring on them multiples times, nearly all of whom have gone on to buy Elites in the last 2 years which have red ringed as well.

I honestly don't know how to take the assurance that the newer generation/model/batch of 360's are less susceptible to Red Ring. We have no knowledge to base that on other than it's what they've told us. I know it's early to talk more price cuts, but I'll probably wait about a year or so to get a new arcade or elite when the price comes down.
This is exactly why anecdotal evidence isn't reliable. The only thing that proves is that your friends keep getting RROD, it could just be a bad batch or something. Out of all my friends with 360's, only two have gotten a RROD and one of them could easily be neglect for the sysytem.

[Mirage]

Only if I could keep my warranty, those things drop like flies!

[Flying Arrow]

Thanks for the tips, all. I ended up not picking up the 360 for a variety of reasons (some of which were provided here).

[Slothy]

This is exactly why anecdotal evidence isn't reliable. The only thing that proves is that your friends keep getting RROD, it could just be a bad batch or something. Out of all my friends with 360's, only two have gotten a RROD and one of them could easily be neglect for the sysytem.

Even though his own anecdotal evidence isn't reliable since it's a small sample size, multiple independent sources coming up with similar numbers over much larger sample sizes is pretty good evidence of a huge problem. I'll grant that theirs probably aren't properly set up statistical studies so the numbers could be off by a decent amount, but if they were even remotely close to the acceptable industry average failure rate of 1-2% or even less then you'd never get numbers as high as 50% to 60% if your random sample was even as small as 50 people.

We can argue back and forth all day over what the actual failure rate is, but at the end of the day, the only answer that matters is that it is far too high.

[Mirage]

Furthermore, if Northernchaosgod's group of 360 friends is like 10-20 people, two RRODs is still a 10-20% failure rate, and that's quite a bit :p