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Nifleheim7
01-16-2010, 12:32 AM
I haven't seen a thread dedicated to reviews so i thought about making one.:)
So far i've only seen RPGFan's review which in my opinion sounds like a very honest one (judging from impressions i've seen on the internet)

Official Playstation Magazine (UK) review score:9/10 (http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/2010/01/18/opm-uk-febuary-issue-final-fantasy-xiii-feature-first-ever-english-review.html)
RPGFan Import Review - Final Fantasy XIII score:85% (http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Final_Fantasy_XIII/index.html)
Nowgamer Import Review score:7.9/10 (http://ps3.nowgamer.com/reviews/ps3/8864/final-fantasy-xiii)
GameFAQs User Reviews (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps3/review/928790.html)
Gamasutra FFXIII analysis (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26643/Analysis_The_Conundrum_of_Final_Fantasy_XIII.php)(minor spoilers)
GameInformer review score:9.25
PSM3 review score:70%
Playstation Official Magazine UK review score:90%
GamesMaster review score:81%


If you know of any other reviews feel free to post them here and i'll add them in the OP.:)

Flying Arrow
01-16-2010, 02:14 AM
That guy seems honest, indeed. I found it particularly interesting how he undermined his own "score" at the end of the review itself:


In spite of packing the series' best battle system, in spite of Pixar-level graphics, in spite of an Oscar worthy soundtrack, FFXIII lacks depth. It's sad to have to say that about a game that is superlative in so many ways. Strip away all of the amazing visuals and music and you have a 7, 7.5 game that scrapes by on the virtues of its combat.

Still, FFXIII is a landmark game if only by virtue of its production. Square Enix has raised the bar not simply for JRPGs, but all seventh generation games to come. It's a must-own for series fans and a must-see for just about everyone else. Here's hoping for some meaty DLC or a stronger showing from Versus XIII.

As far as contributing to the thread, there are a number of informative user reviews at GameFAQs (I know, I know): Final Fantasy XIII Reviews for PlayStation 3 - GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps3/review/928790.html)

Particularly good is the one by reviewer Ashley Winchester.

Nifleheim7
01-16-2010, 02:29 AM
Yeah,i agree that the score doesn't really mach his opinions about the game but still i find the review quite objective and detailed with some very good points that i happen to agree a lot.

And man...seriously GameFAQs???:(
Anyway i'll add the link and read the review you recommended.:)

Wolf Kanno
01-16-2010, 05:18 AM
Here's an amusing preview (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/12/final-fantasy-xiii-preview-2/) I read today for the game...

This a review of the title (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26643/Analysis_The_Conundrum_of_Final_Fantasy_XIII.php) as well though it doesn't offer any score it does analyze a bit about the design of the game. WARNING!!! There are apparently a few story spoilers in this review though it didn't sound major to me.

An Import Review (http://ps3.nowgamer.com/reviews/ps3/8864/final-fantasy-xiii)

Most reviews I've been reading are really mixed. I've read a few bad reviews and then their was the awe inspiring Famitsu review. I don't think since IX have I seen an FF with this many different opinions from gaming critics.

Raistlin
01-16-2010, 06:01 AM
Here's an amusing preview (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/12/final-fantasy-xiii-preview-2/) I read today for the game...

Yeah, it starts out amusing, but then it gets into disappointing details which are fairly on par with my expectations now.


Most reviews I've been reading are really mixed. I've read a few bad reviews and then their was the awe inspiring Famitsu review. I don't think since IX have I seen an FF with this many different opinions from gaming critics.

To be fair, I think most of IX's early bad reviews were due to the obnoxious PlayOnline system.

Nifleheim7
01-16-2010, 03:03 PM
The thing that i noticed in the few reviews that i've read so far is that the scores doesn't really match the reviewers opinions.I think they rate it a bit higher than they should if you take into account their complaints about the game.I wonder if this is because they are afraid of compromising their relationship with SE (and their media feeds.)
I think SE (and every other publisher for that matter) considers the average metacritic score a more important factor for sales than the actual reviews.

Wolf Kanno
01-16-2010, 06:33 PM
That's a growing concern in the game industry. Between companies screwing reviewers out of early copies of their titles in order to make sure it doesn't get a bad score before it hits shelves or in some few cases, as retaliation for a bad review of other titles.

This just brings me back to my old thoughts about how you should never really look at a score and how rating a game has always been silly. The scores for XIII have been high but the reviews themselves come across more negative and critical of the design choices. Which is the honest opinion though? I remember Halo 3 and Crisis Core had similar problems, they got ridiculous high scores but a lot of the reviews themselves criticised several aspects of the game. Its even more jarring when the review is glowing with praise but the score doesn't feel up to par with the review. Whereas a big title always seems to get a high score no matter what.

Huckleberry Quin
01-16-2010, 08:16 PM
I refuse to accept any numerical judgement of something so detailed as a game. It's completely pointless and doesn't affect anything. The words the reviewer writes and the points they make are what's important. /yahtzee

Personally, based on what the reviewers have shown and talked about, it seems to me that FFXIII will be quite rubbish. I doubt I'll buy it at all, even though it is available on the 360, until it's gone down to about a tenner.

Rad Bromance
01-17-2010, 12:20 AM
The only review I've came across that I actually trust is this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WLiencHokM). He's a private individual, not from some corporation/magazine/gaming site, etc. He knows both Japanese and English, and speaks English fluently, and he played through the entire game, and recorded himself doing so, and, according to him, the game is pretty fantastic.

I will play the game, and I am excited for it. I seriously doubt it will come anywhere near being my new favorite FF game, but so far everything I've heard and read leads me to believe that I'm going to enjoy the heck out of it. :D

Wolf Kanno
01-17-2010, 07:09 AM
I just couldn't agree with his review cause I do feel linearity detracts from a game and story should never compromise gameplay especially how extreme XIII does it. I might have a different opinion after playing though.

nirojan
01-17-2010, 09:59 PM
The only review I've came across that I actually trust is this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WLiencHokM). He's a private individual, not from some corporation/magazine/gaming site, etc. He knows both Japanese and English, and speaks English fluently, and he played through the entire game, and recorded himself doing so, and, according to him, the game is pretty fantastic.

I will play the game, and I am excited for it. I seriously doubt it will come anywhere near being my new favorite FF game, but so far everything I've heard and read leads me to believe that I'm going to enjoy the heck out of it. :D

isnt that the same video review you posted up earlier?

anyways...i dont want to read too many reviews cause im afraid I might spoil some of the plot for me. The new trailer that came out had soo much plot-heavy scenes that im not sure if i should have another watch thru.

LunarWeaver
01-19-2010, 07:37 PM
Scanning through, I see no mention of a New Game + and even a statement that there's no reason to replay the game once beaten. Oh, Square, when will you learn from yourself.

And I'm not surprised the reviews are here and there. Like most Final Fantasy games, the hype is enormous. It will be torn apart and analyzed much more than other games.

Sephiroth
01-22-2010, 08:54 PM
My personal review about Final Fantasy XIII:


Final Fantasy XIII has lots of points people can argue about - I like this points. Of course you cannot do that much optional things and the few you have you can only do at the end of the story but finishing the story line shouldn't be that bad for RPG fans. And the story itself is really, really good - well, at least it is my opinion, I cannot decide what you think about it, that's your job. Final Fantasy XIII is definitely the most difficult Final Fantasy - and I have them all. So it is quite a challenge. You think using sneak smoke items - which you don't have limitless and which can only be bought at the end of the story line for 30000 Gil - or sneaking around your enemies is good for you? You will regret it one day when you are too weak for your enemies. Even when you use the Optima system properly it is still hard, you have to combine both of them - training and the Optima system. Of course upgrading your equipment is very useful as well - very, very useful. And I have never seen a Final Fantasy which forced me to buy and use that much Potions and Phoenix Downs, well more Potions than Phoenix Downs but you really need them because when you are unlucky your healer is not fast enough and Items don't need ATB bars as well as the Tactical Point moves (which are good as well because of the Summons or Full Cure, et cetera). You have a fair amount of save points including their shops and a very good restart option in case you get ko. You start directly before the battle you have lost and you can skip annoying scenes if you don't want to watch them again and again. Plus, I have never fought such a hard final boss as the second form of the final boss of Final Fantasy XIII. Not even Zeromus or Neo X-Death were that hard. 67800000 Hit Points and a gravity based attack which destroys you when you are in bio or an action which doesn't allow you to use ATB moves, hello o_O? Anyway - the battles - even the battle against this bastard are very funny and stylish. And I love the characters - while Final Fantasy XII was not that emotional, Final Fantasy XIII really shows what the characters feel. Sure there are some strange moments you think "Okay...that really was NOT necessary." but hey, even though it is very good, it is not perfect. And I don't think I have to mention the graphics. They are awesome.

Well, I can recommend Final Fantasy XIII. I have really enjoyed it. Even the linear aspect. At least I was able to understand the story better because I couldn't do optional things.

Nifleheim7
01-24-2010, 01:34 PM
^The problem with FFXIII's design choices (and every other RPG the uses the same ones) is that if you don't happen to like the story and characters then the game is ruined.
I didn't liked the characters in FFXII but because of its open ended design the game let me enjoy its other strong points (exploration,battle system,atmosphere) and i ended up liking it.My first playthrough was more than 300 hours (i didn't use a guide while trying to complete everything) and i still have lots of things left to do for my second paythrough.

I think a lot of developers today are getting too much inspiration by movies when they should be looking at the strengths of the video game format instead.;)

Jecht Shot
02-07-2010, 08:51 PM
For what its worth, the GameInformer review is out, and they gave FFXIII a 9.25.

Depression Moon
02-07-2010, 09:44 PM
issue 203 is out already; where's my copy?

Old Manus
02-08-2010, 10:06 PM
/v/ just posted scans of a review from some American gaming magazine, where it gave it 70%. Reading it, the game seems very, very mediocre. HATE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO LOL

ljkkjlcm9
02-09-2010, 07:10 AM
To me it sounds almost like an action game with lots of straight forwardness. Honestly, God of War is very linear... Uncharted 2 was very linear... etc. Most big games that everyone loves are linear.

Every other genre out there is pretty much linear, except when an RPG does it, it's a bad thing. But to counteract it, sounds like they made the battles more fast pace and action oriented. I am all in favor of this. Maybe not for every RPG I play, but I certainly can enjoy a game like that every once in awhile. If the gameplay is as good as it seems and everyone says it is, I'm sure I will enjoy playing.

THE JACKEL

Croyles
02-10-2010, 01:37 AM
/v/ just posted scans of a review from some American gaming magazine, where it gave it 70%. Reading it, the game seems very, very mediocre. HATE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO LOL

Game still sounds good to me. So don't know who you are referring to here.

charliepanayi
02-10-2010, 07:29 AM
/v/ just posted scans of a review from some American gaming magazine, where it gave it 70%. Reading it, the game seems very, very mediocre. HATE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO LOL

LOL A review agrees with my opinion, I told you my prophecy of doom about this game was right LOL.

Vyk
02-12-2010, 01:59 AM
I just couldn't agree with his review cause I do feel linearity detracts from a game and story should never compromise gameplay especially how extreme XIII does it. I might have a different opinion after playing though.


^The problem with FFXIII's design choices (and every other RPG the uses the same ones) is that if you don't happen to like the story and characters then the game is ruined.
I didn't liked the characters in FFXII but because of its open ended design the game let me enjoy its other strong points (exploration,battle system,atmosphere) and i ended up liking it.My first playthrough was more than 300 hours (i didn't use a guide while trying to complete everything) and i still have lots of things left to do for my second paythrough.

I think a lot of developers today are getting too much inspiration by movies when they should be looking at the strengths of the video game format instead.;)

As stated about linear action-adventure games, I can't really complain about this stuff. And considering I loved Xenogears sacrifice of gameplay for finishing the story. Good point though, I enjoyed the story. I probably wouldn't have enjoyed the game as whole as much if I didn't. So hopefully FFXIII's story is worth the sacrifice

eestlinc
02-12-2010, 06:52 AM
how dare they make it different from previous games!

Dignified Pauper
02-14-2010, 01:51 PM
how dare they make it different from previous games!

This is absolutely intolerable!

Linearity! That's maddening. I want to be lost in a world, forget about a story and not be able to remember what's happened after going through and meandering across these open plains for hours for no apparent reason! Story based gameplay, and this battle system. OMG! I HATE IT! RAHAWHAD ADGADFA SDF IF THESE SCONES COULD TALK!

LowCaloriePie
02-15-2010, 05:43 PM
The thing that i noticed in the few reviews that i've read so far is that the scores doesn't really match the reviewers opinions.

Your read a review for the analysis, not the score. A score means nothing if you don't understand why it was given the marks it had.

Lightening
02-15-2010, 08:31 PM
I think I'll wait with reading more reviews until the game is out so I can make up my own opinions instead of being infuenced by others.

Depression Moon
02-15-2010, 10:20 PM
I got the GI in the mail and read the review. 9.5 is still extremely high, so I probably won't dislike the game. I never ever disliked any game that received that high of a score from many critics. They have their complaints though with the story, which I think I should ignore because some reviewers just don't like the type of stories found in JRPGs and I don't know how they felt about IX's story, actually I remember them making a jib saying that no one uses Quina in their party like with Cait Sith in VII.

Who knows what other crazy stuff they might've said about my game.

seiferalmasy2
02-16-2010, 08:28 AM
I gave up believing those review sites a long time ago. I remember XII getting 40/40 and 10/10, but I would give it a 4. Same with MGS4.

They usually base it on some sort of agenda or on graphics. Story is most important to me. From what I am seeing, 13 has done exactly what MGS4 did:

"Let's have 10000 dumb long cutscenes as a substitute"

I really hope this isn't the case.

I have a saying "With Graphical power comes responsibility" Most of these latest games on PS3 and end of PS2 seem to have no responsibility, and it is this same reason I often dread a remake of VII

Bahamutto's reader review of Final Fantasy XIII for PlayStation 3 (http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/finalfantasy13/player_review.html?id=700798&tag=player-reviews;continue;9)

Reviews like that aren't making me feel confident about this game AT ALL.

Dignified Pauper
02-16-2010, 07:36 PM
13 really doesn't have a long cutscenes from what I heard. There are many, but not long.

Sephiroth
02-16-2010, 07:39 PM
13 really doesn't have a long cutscenes from what I heard. There are many, but not long.

Don't worry. They are long enough. And the ending lasts about 20 minutes.

Nifleheim7
02-16-2010, 11:34 PM
The thing that i noticed in the few reviews that i've read so far is that the scores doesn't really match the reviewers opinions.

Your read a review for the analysis, not the score. A score means nothing if you don't understand why it was given the marks it had.

Um,thanks but what made you think i care more about the scores than the actual reviews?:confused:


I only mentioned what i observed.
Of which if you also take into account how much publishers believe that scores affect people's buying decisions,makes it kinda suspicious.;)

jammi567
03-05-2010, 07:18 PM
Some English reviews:

Final Fantasy XIII UK Review - PlayStation 3 Review at IGN (http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1074227p1.html)

YouTube - Final Fantasy XIII Video Review by GameSpot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0qEe1Qz6vA)

Flying Arrow
03-05-2010, 09:30 PM
1up review by Jeremy Parish (one of the very few game reviewers whose comments genuinely approach real critique): Final Fantasy XIII Review for the PS3,Xbox 360 from 1UP.com (http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3178230)

Edge Magazine's very interesting review: Review: Final Fantasy XIII | Edge Online (http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/review-final-fantasy-xiii) (Avoid the post-review comments if you want your soul to remain intact)

champagne supernova
03-05-2010, 10:02 PM
The reviews agree on one thing: the first 25 hours are lame because the combat system is limited.

The reviewers disagree on another thing: the story.

Since the game is so driven and focused around the story, it would appear that the only way you can figure out whether you're going to enjoy this game is by playing it. And yeah, it seems like personal preferences are a big decider in that regard.

ANGRYWOLF
03-06-2010, 03:41 AM
Final Fantasy XIII Video Game, Review | Game Trailers & Videos | GameTrailers.com (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-final-fantasy/62719)

The Summoner of Leviathan
03-06-2010, 04:58 AM
Joystiq - Review: Final Fantasy XIII (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/05/review-final-fantasy-xiii/)

It seemed like a pretty even-handed review, though I will only know for sure once I play the game. I find their point about linearity interesting~

champagne supernova
03-06-2010, 09:11 AM
Final Fantasy XIII: Review Reception - PlayStation 3 Feature at IGN (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1074995p1.html)

Here's a fairly cool summary of all the reviews so far.

Silvercry
03-06-2010, 02:17 PM
Hey, remember when KH2 took five hours to open up?  Or when Twilight Princess took three to get out of the first damn village?  Remember all the crap reviewers gave those games for doing something so brain-dead?

But when FF XIII multiplies that by four, its somehow okay?

I'm still going to get this game, and I may even think its the bees knees by the time I'm done. But how can so many possibly describe what amounts to a 20 hour tutorial in a positive light? No other game would be given a pass on that crap.

Flying Arrow
03-06-2010, 04:02 PM
^ I agree. That's terrible. We'll have to see to what extent the game actually feels like an overlong tutorial. Twilight Princess (and most of the 2000 decade's Zeldas) and Okami pissed me off for that reason. On the other hand, FFXII took a while to get going, but it arguably was only because the battle system only got more interesting as it got more complex, so the initial simplicity was just unenthralling. Completely the opposite of being tutored the whole time.

I did hear one podcaster say XIII feels like it's exposing all of its nuances in increments, revealing new strategies and situations in which a player may want to use them. So maybe it's not tutoring per se. Not really sure if those two concepts are all that different, though. We'll see.


Final Fantasy XIII: Review Reception - PlayStation 3 Feature at IGN (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1074995p1.html)

Here's a fairly cool summary of all the reviews so far.

Goddamn IGN. Thanks for posting the link, but damn I don't think I've ever seen an article as bad as this in regards to this numbers game/score award bull:bou::bou::bou::bou:. IGN generally don't write very good reviews as it is, but this is just smurfing moronic. "How critical were the critics?" Indeed.

VeloZer0
03-06-2010, 05:26 PM
Or go the other way an realize that in FFVI you didn't get the ability to use magic on most characters for a dozen or so hours, and it was completely linear and didn't open up until until the very end.

Not defending XIII because I haven't played it yet, but the things that are described as negative seem to be to be common fodder of the older generation of JRPGs.

Wolf Kanno
03-06-2010, 05:50 PM
Except you forget that VI also has a class system and relic system which were both introduced fairly early in that game. VI also throws you into several scenarios that gave the player a limited amount of control between choosing where the story was going (when the party gets split up on the Lete River not to mention the Lete river itself and all the non-straightforward dunge0on designs) and it constantly introduced new characters that brought in new playstyles all the way up to the point when it "opened up". So I don't feel the older games are as bad as what some reviewers have been complaining about.

XIII reviews are talking about how even a leveling system doesn't get introduced until a few hours in and some have hinted the full extent of the Paradigm system won't unlock until somewhere between the 50% and 70% mark in the game. The issue of how the system opens up is one of the few elements I'm really concerned about cause frankly the battle system is about the only thing I'm really looking forward to. It will be a shame if it goes FFX's route and doesn't come into its own until the game might as well be over. :roll2

silentenigma
03-06-2010, 06:17 PM
8.5 from Gamespot, son.

Who. Called. It.

VeloZer0
03-06-2010, 06:58 PM
Except you forget that VI also has a class system and relic system which were both introduced fairly early in that game. VI also throws you into several scenarios that gave the player a limited amount of control between choosing where the story was going (when the party gets split up on the Lete River not to mention the Lete river itself and all the non-straightforward dunge0on designs) and it constantly introduced new characters that brought in new playstyles all the way up to the point when it "opened up". So I don't feel the older games are as bad as what some reviewers have been complaining about.

XIII reviews are talking about how even a leveling system doesn't get introduced until a few hours in and some have hinted the full extent of the Paradigm system won't unlock until somewhere between the 50% and 70% mark in the game. The issue of how the system opens up is one of the few elements I'm really concerned about cause frankly the battle system is about the only thing I'm really looking forward to. It will be a shame if it goes FFX's route and doesn't come into its own until the game might as well be over. :roll2
I'll admit that I haven't really looked that much into the criticisms of FFXIII. (I'm going to buy it regardless, what is the point in looking at other peoples opinions?). I just feel like the snippets I have heard could easily be applied to other well loved games, FFVI for example. You can defend FFVI , but I think you could see how someone could make similar comments about the game.

The Summoner of Leviathan
03-06-2010, 07:04 PM
Except you forget that VI also has a class system and relic system which were both introduced fairly early in that game. VI also throws you into several scenarios that gave the player a limited amount of control between choosing where the story was going (when the party gets split up on the Lete River not to mention the Lete river itself and all the non-straightforward dunge0on designs) and it constantly introduced new characters that brought in new playstyles all the way up to the point when it "opened up". So I don't feel the older games are as bad as what some reviewers have been complaining about.


I would hardly say FFVI has a class system. Sure, each character has a special ability and you can only equip certain items on certain people. Insofar as that is true, there are classes, however the lines are very blurred with Espers. Traditionally, magic is not open to every class. I'd say FFVI has as much as a class system as FFX: it is only a class system as much as you allow it to be. Sure Rikku is a "thief" class as well as Locke, but hey let's give Locke an Esper and Rikku learn a bit of Lulu's Sphere Grid and now they're mages as well! FFVI class system is more of a pseudo-class system in all honesty.

Relic system? Seriously? It is just the same as equipping accessories in most other RPGs, just this time you get two. Though the Gametrailer video review is the first time I heard about the crafting system for the weapons in FFXIII and from their impression it is underwhelming.

As for linearity, FFVI, along with a few others, are pretty linear until you get an airship or something similar. Basically you have the town NPCs more or less drawing you a map where to go next. Sure, you have that nice big open world map to go to, but for the most part at the beginning of the game all other areas are conveniently blocked off, leaving your next destination very obvious. Not so coincidental and ever so convenient, the only place you can go is the place that all the earlier NPCs were talking about and the next plot point! Not to say they don't open up, they do, but it only occurs later in the game. Sure, it seems open but if you look close enough they are just giving you slack on the leash.

That being said, FFVI is still one of my favourite instalments in the series (along with FFT and FFXII).

The reviewers complaining about melodrama make me laugh though. It is like they haven't played most JRPGs or watched anime. Sure, they are not all like that but it is common enough that it shouldn't be surprising. To me, it is like complaining about the fact that most RPGs are about saving the world or some re-iteration thereof.

Give me a good battle system and an engaging plot and/or characters and I am pretty much set.

Elpizo
03-06-2010, 09:56 PM
XIII is bold, and that's fine. I don't mind linearity, I play my RPGs for the story, and if XIII focusses 90% on that, all the better. XII is the only game in the series where I clocked 150 hours + because I wanted to do all sidequests. In a game the style of X or XIII, I don't want to do this, so a heavy focus on the story is good.

Of course I won't defend or crack the game down till I played it myself next week, but I do feel critics are complaining a tad too much at times, sometimes for stupid reasons. Like Gamespot. It made Vanille a "the bad" of XIII. Instant fail, as Vanille clearly rules.

seiferalmasy2
03-06-2010, 10:44 PM
I'll admit that I haven't really looked that much into the criticisms of FFXIII. (I'm going to buy it regardless, what is the point in looking at other peoples opinions?). I just feel like the snippets I have heard could easily be applied to other well loved games, FFVI for example. You can defend FFVI , but I think you could see how someone could make similar comments about the game.

You don't need to play it or read reviews, you can watch it on youtube and judge from there. The first half or more of the game is a straight line. If you are playing a game for purely the story, it isn't a game you should be playing. The cinema is the place for that.

An RPG is supposed to have a balance but clearly XIII does not. I really cannot understand why so many are saying "I have heard all these criticisms, there is so much I can do to see if it is true, but instead I will buy it anyway"

Nothing is achieved by that except the game designers think it is ok to shaft us all with 90% cutscene and 10% pressing action button. FF13 is the most linear FF there has ever been. It is a a straight line "attack pallette swap monster" over and over again.

Call me crazy but that isn't what I started playing Final fantasy for. I played it for its battle system, menu system, exploration AND story. Not fighting 100 monsters in 1 linear path with a cutscene or three at the end of it.

As for more reviews these ones are good:


Edge Magazine 5/10

Review: Final Fantasy XIII | Edge Online (http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/review-final-fantasy-xiii)

FFXIII takes brave risks with the series’ foundations, but they ultimately create trembling fractures throughout the entire edifice, that robust battle system unable to support the weight of an entire world. Final Fantasy games are always an investment. This time, the returns are questionable.

When your party is finally operating at full capacity, there’s still more of the linear story to trudge through – and it is a trudge. The game’s producers have gone on record as saying that western audiences don’t understand this first section, but in fact we do: it’s just a bit rubbish. The first 25 hours of the game are one long corridor of palette-swapped enemies, fights that never quite find the right level of challenge, and cutscene after cutscene (after cutscene) leaving your joypad entirely idle.



Wired 6/10

Review: Beautiful, Boring Final Fantasy XIII Loses RPG Magic | GameLife | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/03/final-fantasy-xiii-review/)

The most important thing to understand about <cite>Final Fantasy XIII</cite>, the latest in the world’s most popular line of role-playing games, is that it isn’t a role-playing game.
You don’t have to take my word for it. Just ask its creators: In a recent interview, the director of this PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 game (available March 9) said the changes he made to this installment were so dramatic that it constituted a “new genre (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3178060)” outside the “RPG template.”


Read More Review: Beautiful, Boring Final Fantasy XIII Loses RPG Magic | GameLife | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/03/final-fantasy-xiii-review/#ixzz0hRI4N7HC)

Sephiroth
03-06-2010, 10:49 PM
If you are playing a game for purely the story, it isn't a game you should be playing. The cinema is the place for that.



Who says that?

The most important thing in Final Fantasy is the story. And I love Final Fantasy XIII because of its story and the awesomeness of Final Fantasy XIII itself. I am enjoying every single minute of it. The story and the atmosphere of Final Fantasy XIII makes it one of the best Final Fantasys even with linearity.

charliepanayi
03-06-2010, 10:55 PM
You don't need to play it or read reviews, you can watch it on youtube and judge from there.

That has to be the stupidest way ever to judge a videogame.

Breine
03-06-2010, 10:55 PM
And I'm not surprised the reviews are here and there. Like most Final Fantasy games, the hype is enormous. It will be torn apart and analyzed much more than other games.

This is true.

charliepanayi
03-06-2010, 10:57 PM
And I'm not surprised the reviews are here and there. Like most Final Fantasy games, the hype is enormous. It will be torn apart and analyzed much more than other games.

This is true.

Pretty much every FF game from FFVIII onwards has had some people on release moaning how it's the worst FF game ever, it seems to be a common theme with every new one in the series.

seiferalmasy2
03-06-2010, 10:58 PM
You don't need to play it or read reviews, you can watch it on youtube and judge from there.

That has to be the stupidest way ever to judge a videogame.

How can it be stupid when you are seeing the game in progress? I use reviews AND watch it to create a more full opinion of it. There is no question that the criticism of its linear nature is valid, its cutscene fest valid, its straight line monster attacking valid.

In fact pretty much every main criticism is true and you don't need to know japanese to see that played out on video. The only question remains, how good is the story?

charliepanayi
03-06-2010, 11:06 PM
You cannot judge properly a videogame by watching a video of it, it kind of misses the most important aspect, playing the damn thing.

'There is no question that the criticism of its linear nature is valid, its cutscene fest valid, its straight line monster attacking valid.'

These are all subjective things, so saying there's 'no question' of them makes no sense.

'In fact pretty much every main criticism is true'

Says you. On watching a video seemingly.

seiferalmasy2
03-06-2010, 11:14 PM
You cannot judge properly a videogame by watching a video of it, it kind of misses the most important aspect, playing the damn thing.

'There is no question that the criticism of its linear nature is valid, its cutscene fest valid, its straight line monster attacking valid.'

These are all subjective things, so saying there's 'no question' of them makes no sense.

'In fact pretty much every main criticism is true'

Says you. On watching a video seemingly.

The video of it as a walkthrough IS THE GAME. You do not need to PLAY it to KNOW IT. If you watched a full walkthrough of VII you could easily tell if it was linear or if the story was bad or if it had a good battle system.

Are you suggesting to me that by playing it you are given amazing powers of understanding or new vision that your eyes would not otherwise have had? Do you realise how preposterous that sounds?

Reading reviews, reading from people who have played it and then watching a proper video walk through are the best ways to judge a game before buying, and when you do watch it, you can immediately see the following:

1 line map
battle
cutscene
long battle
1 line map

Auto attacks by AI, numbers flying all over, deliberately high HP bosses

And so on. The only thing you cannot tell from a walkthrough at present is how good the story is and that is only because it is in Japanese. I will wait until a walk through is released in English and from watching the first 3 hours I will know whether I even want to rent it....

Have a good look:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=M_ibjkCZARc&feature=related)

I chose that at random. if you watch it surely you will geta good idea about how the game works. I did.

Sephiroth
03-06-2010, 11:16 PM
And so on. The only thing you cannot tell from a walkthrough at present is how good the story is and that is only because it is in Japanese. I will wait until a walk through is released in English and from watching the first 3 hours I will know whether I even want to rent it....

3 hours? That's too short.

Many things happen in these first 3 hours but you should take more time for it.

charliepanayi
03-06-2010, 11:18 PM
'If you watched a full walkthrough of VII you could easily tell if it was linear or if the story was bad or if it had a good battle system.'

If I watched a full walkthrough of FFVII I'd get very bored fast, despite FFVII being a great game. There's few things more tedious than watching someone else play a game. Playing the game is a very different experience.

'Are you suggesting to me that by playing it you are given amazing powers of understanding'

Yes. Yes I am.

And I honestly don't care if it's linear or not.

seiferalmasy2
03-06-2010, 11:20 PM
Then I suggest you go watch a walk through, because it tells you a lot. A lot more than a review ever could on its own :)

charliepanayi
03-06-2010, 11:24 PM
I've seen walkthroughs. They're boring. Hence my point.

seiferalmasy2
03-07-2010, 12:00 AM
I've seen walkthroughs. They're boring. Hence my point.

Whether they are boring or not isn't the point. The point is they show you more than a review can tell you.

VeloZer0
03-07-2010, 12:06 AM
They will show you more than a review, but they are still a far cry from the complete picture. As I said earlier, I plan on buying this game. Even if it doesn't live up to the promise inherent in being a numbered FF title I find it doubtful that it won't be worth playing.

I personally don't have a boatload of spare time on my hands, so watching hours of video walk through isn't something I would seriously consider. Right now I am just hoping I have the spare time to log an hour a day when it is released. Not to mention it would really wreck the experience when I actually did get to the game.

Depression Moon
03-07-2010, 12:08 AM
I read the one that playstation magazine did. It was pretty okay, I'm still unsure on what to think. I'm not taking really no one else's opinions on mainstream FF titles. I'll have to see for myserlf on the wquality of it. oh man, am I tirded?

Rase
03-07-2010, 12:18 AM
The most important thing in Final Fantasy is the story.


Who says that?

Flying Arrow
03-07-2010, 12:19 AM
As for linearity, FFVI, along with a few others, are pretty linear until you get an airship or something similar. Basically you have the town NPCs more or less drawing you a map where to go next. Sure, you have that nice big open world map to go to, but for the most part at the beginning of the game all other areas are conveniently blocked off, leaving your next destination very obvious. Not so coincidental and ever so convenient, the only place you can go is the place that all the earlier NPCs were talking about and the next plot point! Not to say they don't open up, they do, but it only occurs later in the game. Sure, it seems open but if you look close enough they are just giving you slack on the leash.




I almost completely agree. I also want to add that the towns of VI were as bland as they get in the World of Balance. People complain about the lack of towns or whatever in XIII, but is it better to have boring towns than no towns at all? What makes the FFVI world interesting (if you find it interesting, that is) is how everything changes so suddenly and the new perspective it brings. I find that going through FFVI isn't a particularly incredible experience - FFV has far better gameplay among the SNES saga - it's only how it all fits together at the end that makes me think about what a great time I just had.

I'm hoping XIII ends up similarly satisfying. At this point there's no reason to believe it won't. I can buy reviewers calling foul on the linear-freedom game model; most mainstream reviewers have always cried foul about a lot of RPG conventions. The fans shock me, however. From what it sounds like, as much as XIII is trying to riff on VII, it seems like it's really the spiritual successor to VI (linear-freedom design, ensemble cast, standard backdrop setting brought to life by great character work, etc). One would think people would be more welcoming.

Wolf Kanno
03-07-2010, 02:41 AM
I'll admit that I haven't really looked that much into the criticisms of FFXIII. (I'm going to buy it regardless, what is the point in looking at other peoples opinions?). I just feel like the snippets I have heard could easily be applied to other well loved games, FFVI for example. You can defend FFVI , but I think you could see how someone could make similar comments about the game.

And I find that completely fair to say. I think the only one I don't agree was someone using Xenogears as a parallel cause there is a big difference between how XIII seems to be using it and how Gears did it.



I would hardly say FFVI has a class system. Sure, each character has a special ability and you can only equip certain items on certain people. Insofar as that is true, there are classes, however the lines are very blurred with Espers. Traditionally, magic is not open to every class. I'd say FFVI has as much as a class system as FFX: it is only a class system as much as you allow it to be. Sure Rikku is a "thief" class as well as Locke, but hey let's give Locke an Esper and Rikku learn a bit of Lulu's Sphere Grid and now they're mages as well! FFVI class system is more of a pseudo-class system in all honesty.

You can give characters the ability to use magic but it never changes the fact that the characters have innate abilities and qualities that keep them distinctly different from each other permanently so I would say this constitutes as an actual class system. Just because the Mage classes can be blended into every other class doesn't mean its a psuedo system cause if it was, it would be like FFX where all characters can learn everything (except Overdrives and summons) that make each of them unique to each other. You can have everyone master every magic spell but it doesn't change than you may still pick the Figaro brothers cause you love using Bum Rush and Chainsaw. ;)


Relic system? Seriously? It is just the same as equipping accessories in most other RPGs, just this time you get two. Though the Gametrailer video review is the first time I heard about the crafting system for the weapons in FFXIII and from their impression it is underwhelming.

Yeah, except VI was the first to really do it on the scale that it did. Sure some accessories had some innate buffs and debuffs in the past but their were generally only a handful in previous RPGs and VI was the first to use Relics that actually gave your characters abilites. GP Rain, Control, Jump, Dash, W-Magic, Double Handed, Duel Wield, and Barrage... The game literally took the sub-class abilites from V and made them into equipment that gave you the effects. Getting the Gauntlet and Genji Glove to characters like Sabin and Cyan is just as important as teaching Cure and Ultima to your mage like characters. So I would say it did more than just do a few statistical effects for characters I don't think you are giving the system enough credit. They even brought it back to some extent for X-2 of all games and VII's materia system is basically them breaking down the Esper and Relic system downs even further.


As for linearity, FFVI, along with a few others, are pretty linear until you get an airship or something similar. Basically you have the town NPCs more or less drawing you a map where to go next. Sure, you have that nice big open world map to go to, but for the most part at the beginning of the game all other areas are conveniently blocked off, leaving your next destination very obvious. Not so coincidental and ever so convenient, the only place you can go is the place that all the earlier NPCs were talking about and the next plot point! Not to say they don't open up, they do, but it only occurs later in the game. Sure, it seems open but if you look close enough they are just giving you slack on the leash.

This I can agree with but I actually prefer having the slacked leash over knowing that I have no real control, mostly cause Square was usually kind enough to always throw you a bone every once and awhile and let actually find something special. Using VI as an example, you don't even need to go to South Figaro. Once you walk in, you can simply walk out and proceed to Mt. Kolts but you miss out on meeting Shadow and learning the back-story of Duncan and Vargas, or even the foreshadowing of South Figaro's fall. If you didn't explore the area around South Figaro you would miss seeing Duncan's house and getting foreshadowing of Sabin's arrival. You still have choice despite having few options, whereas the type of game XIII is said to be , your choices are to move forward or stop playing. Whether XIII presents a strong initiative to continue moving forward is something we will have to wait until we play it though.



The reviewers complaining about melodrama make me laugh though. It is like they haven't played most JRPGs or watched anime. Sure, they are not all like that but it is common enough that it shouldn't be surprising. To me, it is like complaining about the fact that most RPGs are about saving the world or some re-iteration thereof.

Most I have read said its not so much the melodrama as much as its the fact the cast is very 2-Dimensional and mostly RPG cliches with the exception of Sahz whom I have yet to hear anything negative about.


Give me a good battle system and an engaging plot and/or characters and I am pretty much set.

I'm a full package kinda guy, but its just because as I've been getting older, I'm noticing how important the little things are to the whole deal. I still intend to play XIII and I'll pass my final judgment when I see the ending credits.

ANGRYWOLF
03-07-2010, 02:44 AM
of the game already...

I do believe the flaws are there.I still intend to buy the game eventually anyway...

I still think Square needs to bring in some western game developers to help with Final Fantasy, especially with the dialogue and with plot developement...

:)

The Summoner of Leviathan
03-07-2010, 05:41 AM
I would hardly say FFVI has a class system. Sure, each character has a special ability and you can only equip certain items on certain people. Insofar as that is true, there are classes, however the lines are very blurred with Espers. Traditionally, magic is not open to every class. I'd say FFVI has as much as a class system as FFX: it is only a class system as much as you allow it to be. Sure Rikku is a "thief" class as well as Locke, but hey let's give Locke an Esper and Rikku learn a bit of Lulu's Sphere Grid and now they're mages as well! FFVI class system is more of a pseudo-class system in all honesty.

You can give characters the ability to use magic but it never changes the fact that the characters have innate abilities and qualities that keep them distinctly different from each other permanently so I would say this constitutes as an actual class system. Just because the Mage classes can be blended into every other class doesn't mean its a psuedo system cause if it was, it would be like FFX where all characters can learn everything (except Overdrives and summons) that make each of them unique to each other. You can have everyone master every magic spell but it doesn't change than you may still pick the Figaro brothers cause you love using Bum Rush and Chainsaw. ;)


It still doesn't feel like a class system to me. It is more of traits that reflect each character's personality and background than an actual class system. Then again, my idea of a class system is something more like FFV's or FFT's than anything else.




Relic system? Seriously? It is just the same as equipping accessories in most other RPGs, just this time you get two. Though the Gametrailer video review is the first time I heard about the crafting system for the weapons in FFXIII and from their impression it is underwhelming.

Yeah, except VI was the first to really do it on the scale that it did. Sure some accessories had some innate buffs and debuffs in the past but their were generally only a handful in previous RPGs and VI was the first to use Relics that actually gave your characters abilites. GP Rain, Control, Jump, Dash, W-Magic, Double Handed, Duel Wield, and Barrage... The game literally took the sub-class abilites from V and made them into equipment that gave you the effects. Getting the Gauntlet and Genji Glove to characters like Sabin and Cyan is just as important as teaching Cure and Ultima to your mage like characters. So I would say it did more than just do a few statistical effects for characters I don't think you are giving the system enough credit. They even brought it back to some extent for X-2 of all games and VII's materia system is basically them breaking down the Esper and Relic system downs even further.

I'll give you this since I wasn't looking at it within the context of the series (I also haven't played all of the older instalments). I was comparing it more to other RPGs and FFs that had followed it.




As for linearity, FFVI, along with a few others, are pretty linear until you get an airship or something similar. Basically you have the town NPCs more or less drawing you a map where to go next. Sure, you have that nice big open world map to go to, but for the most part at the beginning of the game all other areas are conveniently blocked off, leaving your next destination very obvious. Not so coincidental and ever so convenient, the only place you can go is the place that all the earlier NPCs were talking about and the next plot point! Not to say they don't open up, they do, but it only occurs later in the game. Sure, it seems open but if you look close enough they are just giving you slack on the leash.

This I can agree with but I actually prefer having the slacked leash over knowing that I have no real control, mostly cause Square was usually kind enough to always throw you a bone every once and awhile and let actually find something special. Using VI as an example, you don't even need to go to South Figaro. Once you walk in, you can simply walk out and proceed to Mt. Kolts but you miss out on meeting Shadow and learning the back-story of Duncan and Vargas, or even the foreshadowing of South Figaro's fall. If you didn't explore the area around South Figaro you would miss seeing Duncan's house and getting foreshadowing of Sabin's arrival. You still have choice despite having few options, whereas the type of game XIII is said to be , your choices are to move forward or stop playing. Whether XIII presents a strong initiative to continue moving forward is something we will have to wait until we play it though.

I didn't know you could do that, but then again I am the type that tries to explore every inch before I move on, despite the fact that sometimes I am like "Next plot point, kthnx". I guess it depends with me, I do not mind it being linear at all, though as long as it pulls me in. Though, I really hate it when it is too open yet no reward for exploring it, especially when there are random battles. Basically, those instances where you are on the world map, you are not too sure where to go and the path is not so obvious that you end up exploring. Then you end up going far away from your goal, only to turn back and to be slowed by countless random battles. That annoys me to no end.




The reviewers complaining about melodrama make me laugh though. It is like they haven't played most JRPGs or watched anime. Sure, they are not all like that but it is common enough that it shouldn't be surprising. To me, it is like complaining about the fact that most RPGs are about saving the world or some re-iteration thereof.

Most I have read said its not so much the melodrama as much as its the fact the cast is very 2-Dimensional and mostly RPG cliches with the exception of Sahz whom I have yet to hear anything negative about.

I haven't heard much about the characters, but more about the over-the-top melodrama. Maybe we should trade sources since we seem to be getting different impressions!



Give me a good battle system and an engaging plot and/or characters and I am pretty much set.

I'm a full package kinda guy, but its just because as I've been getting older, I'm noticing how important the little things are to the whole deal. I still intend to play XIII and I'll pass my final judgment when I see the ending credits.

As I've gotten older, I need more to keep my attention to the game since there are a lot of other things I could be doing or I just get bored of it easily. I've found games that I enjoy their battle system and game mechanics more to be the ones I come back on, especially if I love the characters. Other things have to be good as well, but they are not as important to the experience. I agree that the little things are important to the whole deal, but as long as they are not done poorly (e.g. unlike Xenosaga's music which made the game a bore. WHY DIDN'T THEY USE THE STUFF FROM YUKI KAJIURA?), I won't really notice them as much as the gameplay/battle mechanics or plot.

Elpizo
03-07-2010, 11:22 AM
I find numbers as 5 or 6 to be unbelievable. And before anyone goes "fanboy fanboy fanboy!!!" on my behind, I'm not saying a FF game can't get a low score. But a 5 or 6 indicates that it is a game with glaring technical flaws that only very dedicated people can get enjoyment out of. This does not seem to be the case with XIII. It looks like a very pollished game, with no real technical flaws (like freezing, bad textures, lag or something like that), and it can be enjoyed if you like a story.

That's why I find low scores ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with a FF game not getting nines or tens. But fives or six, really? That Heavy Rain gets points knocked off because it occasionally freezes and has some technical hindrances, ending it in the 7 range (which is still good), yes that I can understand.

But knocking off so much points for linearity and lack of common RPG elements as to place XIII in the department of "flawed games that are only for those who are either very dedicated or don't mind playing an unpolished game"... Seems unrealistic.

7 - 8 seem far more acceptable for XIII. I mean, I hate VI as the worst game in the series, followed by X, but I wouldn't give them 5 or 6 either. They're technically well made and polished games, and deserve points for that. And no ridiculous minusses for "LINEARITY NOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEESSSSSZZZ!!!!" or for Vanille, like XIII is getting.

Maybe I'll speak differently when I get the game, but for now, and from what I've seen of the game, these are my views on low scores. Seems like the only justification for the low scores is the linearity. Makes you wonder why other linear games can still score in the 8's and 9's.

Sephiroth
03-07-2010, 01:08 PM
The most important thing in Final Fantasy is the story.


Who says that?

In an RPG the most important thing is the story. You have your characters and they have their adventure. Adventure = Story. That's the most important thing. Don't tell me you are buying a Final Fantasy because you like the mini games, side quests, et cetera more than the story. You have your character(s) and you have the story. Not without reason a good story can help if the rest is not so good.

charliepanayi
03-07-2010, 01:28 PM
I find numbers as 5 or 6 to be unbelievable. And before anyone goes "fanboy fanboy fanboy!!!" on my behind, I'm not saying a FF game can't get a low score. But a 5 or 6 indicates that it is a game with glaring technical flaws that only very dedicated people can get enjoyment out of. This does not seem to be the case with XIII. It looks like a very pollished game, with no real technical flaws (like freezing, bad textures, lag or something like that), and it can be enjoyed if you like a story.

That's why I find low scores ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with a FF game not getting nines or tens. But fives or six, really? That Heavy Rain gets points knocked off because it occasionally freezes and has some technical hindrances, ending it in the 7 range (which is still good), yes that I can understand.

But knocking off so much points for linearity and lack of common RPG elements as to place XIII in the department of "flawed games that are only for those who are either very dedicated or don't mind playing an unpolished game"... Seems unrealistic.

7 - 8 seem far more acceptable for XIII. I mean, I hate VI as the worst game in the series, followed by X, but I wouldn't give them 5 or 6 either. They're technically well made and polished games, and deserve points for that. And no ridiculous minusses for "LINEARITY NOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEESSSSSZZZ!!!!" or for Vanille, like XIII is getting.

Maybe I'll speak differently when I get the game, but for now, and from what I've seen of the game, these are my views on low scores. Seems like the only justification for the low scores is the linearity. Makes you wonder why other linear games can still score in the 8's and 9's.

I think the content of any review will be more important than the score. People often look to the latter too much.

Silvercry
03-07-2010, 01:37 PM
After X-2 and XII, I welcome a linear storyline with open arms. If I wanted something non-linear or 'open-world' I'd play Dragon Age or Fallout (any of them, not just 3) again. I've always enjoyed the stories of the FF games (not so much X-2 though), anime-style melodrama and all. The battle/leveling systems I've always made it a point to master (and when possible, abuse. Hello, FF VIII!), but only so i can kill the next monster/boss as fast and flashy as humanly possible so I can find out what happens next in the story.

So if Square is looking to strip off the filters and mainline my latest fix of FF story, more power to them. My only issue with these reviews is the lack of journalistic integrity, especially from J. Parish, whom I've always respected. And I would totally call him on his bullsh_t over on his 1up review, but the site wont let me log in for some reason. Coincidence? I think not! :D

seiferalmasy2
03-07-2010, 01:51 PM
Maybe I'll speak differently when I get the game, but for now, and from what I've seen of the game, these are my views on low scores. Seems like the only justification for the low scores is the linearity. Makes you wonder why other linear games can still score in the 8's and 9's.

Again you are ignoring all the other problems:

1. No towns
2. No NPC's
3. 2 AI controlled characters
4. Linear as in LITERALLY LINEAR. As in, this is a straight line boxed in adventure for 20 hours and even after that not so good. You cannot go back, you cannot revisit areas. You cannot pass go, you cannot collect 200!
5. All you do for 40 hours is battle monsters and watch a cutscene
6. No minigames
7. Side quests relegated to more fighting.
8. Story mediocre (it has been said)
9. No strategy with enemies (and from what I can gather, it is totally easy, also party heled after every battle)
10. Camera poor
11. Battle system messy (as in way too many hit points going on and all colliding...it is a mish mash)
12. Forced to 3 characters for most story
13. Shops pretty much useless and only get small amount of weapons/accessories

14. THIS ISN'T A GAME. It is a movie. I play games for gameplay and for story, not one or the other.

Furthe reading: “Why Final Fantasy XIII is a Bad Game” | Sankaku Complex (http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/12/20/why-final-fantasy-xiii-is-a-bad-game/)

Now, you might believe the low scores are all a big conspiracy,but me, see, I have looked at the actual gameplay and I have read tons of reviews, and i have spoken to people who have played it and guess what: It is all true. These problems do exist. There is a reason for the low scores. There is a reason why the Japanese have been up in arms about it and why the western reviewers have.

Fair enough if people still want to buy it, or are still excited. That is everybodies right. But pretending things are not there and do not exist, or that reviewers are all being unfair, is wishful thinking and denial. Nobody wanted this game to be as good as 7,8,9,10 more than me. After 12 (a game with no story that plays itself via gambits) which I hated, 10-2 and all the spin offs and cash ins, I gave the series 1 last chance, and I got repaid by another MGS4, except even more dumbed down.

PaulV15590
03-07-2010, 01:57 PM
I find numbers as 5 or 6 to be unbelievable. And before anyone goes "fanboy fanboy fanboy!!!" on my behind, I'm not saying a FF game can't get a low score. But a 5 or 6 indicates that it is a game with glaring technical flaws that only very dedicated people can get enjoyment out of. This does not seem to be the case with XIII. It looks like a very pollished game, with no real technical flaws (like freezing, bad textures, lag or something like that), and it can be enjoyed if you like a story.

That's why I find low scores ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with a FF game not getting nines or tens. But fives or six, really? That Heavy Rain gets points knocked off because it occasionally freezes and has some technical hindrances, ending it in the 7 range (which is still good), yes that I can understand.

But knocking off so much points for linearity and lack of common RPG elements as to place XIII in the department of "flawed games that are only for those who are either very dedicated or don't mind playing an unpolished game"... Seems unrealistic.

7 - 8 seem far more acceptable for XIII. I mean, I hate VI as the worst game in the series, followed by X, but I wouldn't give them 5 or 6 either. They're technically well made and polished games, and deserve points for that. And no ridiculous minusses for "LINEARITY NOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEESSSSSZZZ!!!!" or for Vanille, like XIII is getting.

Maybe I'll speak differently when I get the game, but for now, and from what I've seen of the game, these are my views on low scores. Seems like the only justification for the low scores is the linearity. Makes you wonder why other linear games can still score in the 8's and 9's.


I don't want to saying 'til I've played the game for myself but I agree with you.
I think it's unfair that just cause it's a Final Fantasy title it's put on a pedistool, I think if it had a different title it wouldn't have got a 5/6 anywhere.

Sephiroth
03-07-2010, 02:09 PM
9. No strategy with enemies (and from what I can gather, it is totally easy, also party heled after every battle)
10. Camera poor
11. Battle system messy (as in way too many hit points going on and all colliding...it is a mish mash)
13. Shops pretty much useless and only get small amount of weapons/accessories


There is just one word for these points - wrong.

Psychotic
03-07-2010, 02:14 PM
1. No towns
2. No NPC's
6. No minigames
What's all this then? YouTube - Welcome to Nautilus, The city of dreams. FFXIII(ENGLISH) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1m3okOmxjA)

PaulV15590
03-07-2010, 02:28 PM
9. No strategy with enemies (and from what I can gather, it is totally easy, also party heled after every battle)


Must admit I was disapointed when I heard your party automatically heals after every battle, but I'm sure you need to use strategy during the battle or heading into a boss battle.

VeloZer0
03-07-2010, 02:28 PM
If the problems you list FFT has the following , and does so extremely well.:
1. No towns - Once again this seems to be massively misconstrued.
2. No NPC's - FFXII was so full of useless NPCs I just stopped talking to them at all
5. All you do for 40 hours is battle monsters and watch a cutscene sounds sweet to me
6. No minigames - Excellent!
7. Side quests relegated to more fighting. - Awesome!


10. Camera poor - in the eye of the beholder
3. 2 AI controlled characters - a valid criticism. This is something that makes me leery of the game. But then again, what RPG with multiple characters released in the last few years doesn't do this? (I'm sure someone can point to an example, but you can agree this has become the industry standard)
8. Story mediocre (it has been said) - in the eye of the beholder.
9. No strategy with enemies (and from what I can gather, it is totally easy, also party heled after every battle) - from what I have heard you can slog through without one, but if you want to not slog through all the battles you need to be very involved in the combat.
11. Battle system messy (as in way too many hit points going on and all colliding...it is a mish mash) - Valid concern
12. Forced to 3 characters for most story - So?
13. Shops pretty much useless and only get small amount of weapons/accessories - if true this kind of blows, but not precedent setting.
14. THIS ISN'T A GAME. It is a movie. I play games for gameplay and for story, not one or the other. - I though you said there was too much time fighting monsters?

4. Linear as in LITERALLY LINEAR. As in, this is a straight line boxed in adventure for 20 hours and even after that not so good. You cannot go back, you cannot revisit areas. You cannot pass go, you cannot collect 200!
Thinking back to FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFVII, FFIX and FFX I didn't go back to old areas ever until the end of the game anyways. In fact, being forced to backtrack to old areas is generally regarded as a cheep way to pad game length. To me revisiting old areas seems extremely unimportant.

seiferalmasy2
03-07-2010, 02:43 PM
Again you are ignoring all the other problems:















Furthe reading: “Why Final Fantasy XIII is a Bad Game” | Sankaku Complex (http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/12/20/why-final-fantasy-xiii-is-a-bad-game/)

Now, you might believe the low scores are all a big conspiracy,but me, see, I have looked at the actual gameplay and I have read tons of reviews, and i have spoken to people who have played it and guess what: It is all true. These problems do exist. There is a reason for the low scores. There is a reason why the Japanese have been up in arms about it and why the western reviewers have.

Fair enough if people still want to buy it, or are still excited. That is everybodies right. But pretending things are not there and do not exist, or that reviewers are all being unfair, is wishful thinking and denial. Nobody wanted this game to be as good as 7,8,9,10 more than me. After 12 (a game with no story that plays itself via gambits) which I hated, 10-2 and all the spin offs and cash ins, I gave the series 1 last chance, and I got repaid by another MGS4, except even more dumbed down.

If the problems you list FFT has the following , and does so extremely well.:
1. No towns - Once again this seems to be massively misconstrued.
2. No NPC's - FFXII was so full of useless NPCs I just stopped talking to them at all
5. All you do for 40 hours is battle monsters and watch a cutscene sounds sweet to me
6. No minigames - Excellent!
7. Side quests relegated to more fighting. - Awesome!


10. Camera poor
3. 2 AI controlled characters - a valid criticism. This is something that makes me leery of the game. But then again, what RPG with multiple characters released in the last few years doesn't do this? (I'm sure someone can point to an example, but you can agree this has become the industry standard)
8. Story mediocre (it has been said) - in the eye of the beholder.
9. No strategy with enemies (and from what I can gather, it is totally easy, also party heled after every battle) - from what I have heard you can slog through without one, but if you want to not slog through all the battles you need to be very involved in the combat.
11. Battle system messy (as in way too many hit points going on and all colliding...it is a mish mash) - Valid concern
12. Forced to 3 characters for most story - So?
13. Shops pretty much useless and only get small amount of weapons/accessories - if true this kind of blows, but not precedent setting.
14. THIS ISN'T A GAME. It is a movie. I play games for gameplay and for story, not one or the other. - I though you said there was too much time fighting monsters?

4. Linear as in LITERALLY LINEAR. As in, this is a straight line boxed in adventure for 20 hours and even after that not so good. You cannot go back, you cannot revisit areas. You cannot pass go, you cannot collect 200!
Thinking back to FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFVII, FFIX and FFX I didn't go back to old areas ever until the end of the game anyways. In fact, being forced to backtrack to old areas is generally regarded as a cheep way to pad game length. To me revisiting old areas seems extremely unimportant.

So basically your reply to the criticisms is "I do not care" and "so what if they have removed all the meat, at least there is the bone and that is awesome"

Well guess what, a lot of us do care and that is why this game is getting panned.

LowCaloriePie
03-07-2010, 03:27 PM
14. THIS ISN'T A GAME. It is a movie. I play games for gameplay and for story, not one or the other.



Despite this, Metal Gear Solid 4 still received perfect scores. :|

Flying Arrow
03-07-2010, 03:59 PM
that is why this game is getting panned.

From what I've heard and read, the game is hardly getting panned. Criticized, yes, but for the most part it's mostly thumbs up.

seiferalmasy2
03-07-2010, 04:00 PM
14. THIS ISN'T A GAME. It is a movie. I play games for gameplay and for story, not one or the other.



Despite this, Metal Gear Solid 4 still received perfect scores. :|

yes it is quite a puzzle, considering it was 80% bad movie and 20% flawed gameplay. However, a lot of users online have written reviews explaining why the game fails. But an FF game is an FF game. People will not be expecting the relentless cutscenes and linear nature like an MGS fan would.

MGS4 was still an MGS game of sneak mission variety. FFXIII is no longer a JRPG and that will be its downfall. Expect worse reviews from users.

LowCaloriePie
03-07-2010, 04:30 PM
FFXIII is no longer a JRPG and that will be its downfall. Expect worse reviews from users.

jRPG = Japanese RPG
I fail to see how that's changed.

seiferalmasy2
03-07-2010, 04:42 PM
FFXIII is no longer a JRPG and that will be its downfall. Expect worse reviews from users.

jRPG = Japanese RPG
I fail to see how that's changed.

no towns, almost no minigames, almost no exploration, 1 linear line that you are forced to walk for 20 hours, no NPC, no revisiting areas

The game director himself has said he does not consider it an RPG and that they were moving more towards an FPS vibe.

FFXIII is not an RPG in the sense that 6,7,8,9,10 and 12 are. It is missing some of the most basic things that make an RPG an RPG. If I come into a classroom and take away the blackboard, take away the chalk, take away the desks and stools and add in amazing posters of naked women, is it a classroom anymore?

no. It's only resemblance is it is still room. When you take away the most basic elements of a traditional RPG it cannot be an RPG.

XIII is the only game to have strayed from the formula by this degree. People who pkay XIII on the whole are going to expect loads of towns and areas to explore. They are going to expect numerous side quests like X. They are going to expect load sof weapons and armours, they are going to expect loads of NPC.

And when they realise that there isn't anything except battles and cutscenes, get ready for the biggest backlash you have ever seen over an FF game.

[Kitase also stated it shouldnt be called an RPG Final Fantasy XIII Review (Xbox 360) (http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=final+fantasy+xiii+teamxbox+review&d=715453890794&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=c8ffc63f,9acafd1) ]

LowCaloriePie
03-07-2010, 05:37 PM
The game director himself has said he does not consider it an RPG and that they were moving more towards an FPS vibe.

Link to an interview plz.


FFXIII is not an RPG in the sense that 6,7,8,9,10 and 12 are. It is missing some of the most basic things that make an RPG an RPG.

So you really expect a franchise to remain static throughout its entirety? Please elaborate on all of these features that are present in every Final Fantasy game and not present in XIII. And please explain why they are a necessity.


If I come into a classroom and take away the blackboard, take away the chalk, take away the desks and stools and add in amazing posters of naked women, is it a classroom anymore?

I know X-2 wasn't the prime of the franchise, but you didn't have to sink that low. :)



XIII is the only game to have strayed from the formula by this degree. People who pkay XIII on the whole are going to expect loads of towns and areas to explore. They are going to expect numerous side quests like X. They are going to expect load sof weapons and armours, they are going to expect loads of NPC.

And who says that's really a bad thing? XII strayed from the mold and many perceived that to be the best games of the franchise. If a game developer doesn't experiment they're never going to go anywhere with the franchise.


And when they realise that there isn't anything except battles and cutscenes, get ready for the biggest backlash you have ever seen over an FF game.

The battles have been highly praised in most (if not all) mainstream reviews. The game has also been praised for its jaw-dropping production values. If both of these hold true, I won't mind the lack of exploration. It's disappointing, indeed, but if the game plays well enough to the point where I'm not thinking about the linearity, then the developer did it's job.


[Kitase also stated it shouldnt be called an RPG Final Fantasy XIII Review (Xbox 360) (http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=final+fantasy+xiii+teamxbox+review&d=715453890794&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=c8ffc63f,9acafd1) ]

Final Fantasy XIII ≠ First-person shooter. Honestly, that comparison makes no sense to me.

seiferalmasy2
03-07-2010, 05:45 PM
Kitase is saying it shouldn't be an RPG? And you are going to argue with him too? Time to take off the blinkers and realise this game is not anywhere near the level of 6-10.

I would go over your points but I have answered them all numerous times. You asked why it isn't an RPG (of FF1-12 standard), I told you why and I shwoed you what Kitase said. That should be enough.

You ask me "why does that matter" and I have a perfect anology why. if you take away from an RPG what makes it an RPG it is not an RPG. It really is that basic. XIII is missing tons of things that classify a game as an RPG. How more simple can I make that?

Loony BoB
03-07-2010, 06:38 PM
Joystiq - Review: Final Fantasy XIII (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/fading_into_reality/034840.jpg)

It seemed like a pretty even-handed review, though I will only know for sure once I play the game. I find their point about linearity interesting~
Nice... pic?

champagne supernova
03-07-2010, 06:41 PM
no towns, almost no minigames, almost no exploration, 1 linear line that you are forced to walk for 20 hours, no NPC, no revisiting areas




Generally, the player controls a small number of game characters, usually called a party, and achieves victory by completing a series of quests. Players explore a game world, while solving puzzles and engaging in tactical combat. A key feature of the genre is that characters grow in power and abilities, and characters are typically designed by the player. RPGs rarely challenge a player's physical coordination, with the exception of action role-playing games.

These games usually have a highly developed story and setting, which is divided into a number of quests. Players control one or several characters by issuing commands, which is performed by the character at an effectiveness determined by that character's numeric attributes. These attributes increase each time a character gains a level, and a character's level goes up each time the player accumulates a certain amount of experience.

Do not see where towns, NPCs and non-linearity fall into that definition. And you definitely explore in FFXIII - unless you don't move your character at all in the game and stay where you are.

And, seeing that you haven't played the game, how can you exactly critique the story. There is not near-universal criticism of it. Some reviewers love it, some like it, some dislike it and some hate it. It truly would appear to be in the eye of the beholder. Same with the characters.

And the battle system has received almost universal acclaim - many reviewers consider it the best ever.

The only universal criticism is that the battle system unlocks too slowly. I don't believe a game should receive a low score because of this.

And as for your argument about linearity, for the first 20-odd hours, X is the most linear game I've ever played. You go in a straight line from Besaid to Zanarkand. And literally, in a straight line. Even the world you explore is on railway tracks. Yes, you can play Blitzball and speak to NPC, but these are (expanding upon your culinary metaphor) garnishes and sides to the main course. If the main course is good enough to stand by itself, I can honestly say its great without needing anything else.

The Summoner of Leviathan
03-07-2010, 06:44 PM
Yeah, apparently I copy paste fail, though I fixed the link~ I can't believe I didn't notice that! T_T

Review: Final Fantasy XIII -- Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/05/review-final-fantasy-xiii/)

Loony BoB
03-07-2010, 06:50 PM
xD Happens to the best of us.

The Summoner of Leviathan
03-07-2010, 07:07 PM
Thanks for telling me though~

seiferalmasy2, I love how one of your major source simply copy-paste from 2chan, which is the Japanese mother of 4chan. Moreover, part of their earlier "argument" for why FFXIII is bad is because it did not get a perfect score from Famitsu. Okay, so maybe they've been handing more perfect scores (40) out lately, but 39/40 is not a bad score by any means, unless you fail at fractions. So I really am not taking that source to be anything too credible.

As for Kitase's comment, first it wasn't Kitase that said it shared a lot in common with a FPS. Also, they didn't say FFXIII is an FPS either, comparison does not mean equality.


We didn't really intend to work within with the RPG template," he says. "We wanted to create a new game, even a new genre. The way we look at it, there's isn't a certain format that we have to keep to and build a game around. Rather, it goes the other way around. We create a game and, depending on what works or doesn't work within that game, it ends up reflecting different staple elements

and


Because players are presented with multiple different situations on the field, in a lot of senses FFXIII is more like an FPS than an RPG

Source (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3178060)

charliepanayi
03-07-2010, 08:04 PM
Kitase is saying it shouldn't be an RPG? And you are going to argue with him too? Time to take off the blinkers and realise this game is not anywhere near the level of 6-10.

I would go over your points but I have answered them all numerous times. You asked why it isn't an RPG (of FF1-12 standard), I told you why and I shwoed you what Kitase said. That should be enough.

You ask me "why does that matter" and I have a perfect anology why. if you take away from an RPG what makes it an RPG it is not an RPG. It really is that basic. XIII is missing tons of things that classify a game as an RPG. How more simple can I make that?

You don't like the game. We get it. Now stop trying to convince us with almost religious zeal that we should assume your point of view. And the game is hardly being universally panned, the reviews are a mixed bag but lean slightly towards the positive, and I imagine the response from gamers will too. So it'll be like most FF games in that respect.

seiferalmasy2
03-07-2010, 09:32 PM
Kitase is saying it shouldn't be an RPG? And you are going to argue with him too? Time to take off the blinkers and realise this game is not anywhere near the level of 6-10.

I would go over your points but I have answered them all numerous times. You asked why it isn't an RPG (of FF1-12 standard), I told you why and I shwoed you what Kitase said. That should be enough.

You ask me "why does that matter" and I have a perfect anology why. if you take away from an RPG what makes it an RPG it is not an RPG. It really is that basic. XIII is missing tons of things that classify a game as an RPG. How more simple can I make that?

You don't like the game. We get it. Now stop trying to convince us with almost religious zeal that we should assume your point of view. And the game is hardly being universally panned, the reviews are a mixed bag but lean slightly towards the positive, and I imagine the response from gamers will too. So it'll be like most FF games in that respect.

I ain't tryin to convince anyone, but if you insist on trying to paint a picture that isn't there of course I am going to reply. The reviews are a mixed bag , yes and that hasn't happened before in the same way it has for XIII, that should tell you something straight away.

I am not trying to convince you not to buy it or to hate it, but to accept there are genuine faults here and you can't say there aren't. That is the problem here, some of you are trying to delude yourselves into believing either these reviews are wrong or lying or that you can compare XIII's linear nature to previous titles when it goes well beyond.

The same thing with the other criticisms. It is ok still liking the game and defending it, but like elsewhere, trying to say these things do not count/matter/exist is not ok.

Also, I have as much right to attack the game as you have to sday it is glorious. maybe I will start a new thread nearer the time to keep my obviously dangerous opinions to 1 place ;)

Sephiroth
03-07-2010, 09:35 PM
That is the problem here, some of you are trying to delude yourselves into believing either these reviews are wrong or lying oe that you can compare XIII's linear nature to previous titles when it goes well beyond.

Well, I have Final Fantasy XIII for almost three months now so i can say the reviews are wrong.

charliepanayi
03-07-2010, 09:44 PM
Kitase is saying it shouldn't be an RPG? And you are going to argue with him too? Time to take off the blinkers and realise this game is not anywhere near the level of 6-10.

I would go over your points but I have answered them all numerous times. You asked why it isn't an RPG (of FF1-12 standard), I told you why and I shwoed you what Kitase said. That should be enough.

You ask me "why does that matter" and I have a perfect anology why. if you take away from an RPG what makes it an RPG it is not an RPG. It really is that basic. XIII is missing tons of things that classify a game as an RPG. How more simple can I make that?

You don't like the game. We get it. Now stop trying to convince us with almost religious zeal that we should assume your point of view. And the game is hardly being universally panned, the reviews are a mixed bag but lean slightly towards the positive, and I imagine the response from gamers will too. So it'll be like most FF games in that respect.

I ain't tryin to convince anyone, but if you insist on trying to paint a picture that isn't there of course I am going to reply. The reviews are a mixed bag , yes and that hasn't happened before in the same way it has for XIII, that should tell you something straight away.

I am not trying to convince you not to buy it or to hate it, but to accept there are genuine faults here and you can't say there aren't. That is the problem here, some of you are trying to delude yourselves into believing either these reviews are wrong or lying or that you can compare XIII's linear nature to previous titles when it goes well beyond.

The same thing with the other criticisms. It is ok still liking the game and defending it, but like elsewhere, trying to say these things do not count/matter/exist is not ok.

Also, I have as much right to attack the game as you have to sday it is glorious. maybe I will start a new thread nearer the time to keep my obviously dangerous opinions to 1 place ;)

If people like the game, then obviously they're not going to agree with you about the faults you say are so obvious. For you to say these faults are clearly there and to say otherwise is wrong is daft.

And if you don't think every FF game (since FFVII anyway) hasn't had a mixed response you're crazy, most have their share of people who love them and of people who hate them.

Psychotic
03-07-2010, 11:13 PM
The same thing with the other criticisms. It is ok still liking the game and defending it, but like elsewhere, trying to say these things do not count/matter/exist is not ok.
Well, it is okay when some of them are obviously wrong. Check out the video in my previous post and then carry on saying "There are no NPCs" because quite clearly there are.

If your list of criticisms were all true then yeah, it'd sound like a bit of a dire game. However, many are subjective and, as the video proves, some are downright fabrication.

Silvercry
03-07-2010, 11:20 PM
Wait, people are complaining about the lack of mini-games now? This is a bad thing? My favorite part of FF XII was the fact that they ditched all the insipid mini-games in favor of side quests that actually add to the world. Are we really complaining that were cant breed birds, play cards, snowboard, play Underwater Rugby or engage in the Math Olympics? Really?

Now, FF XII went a bit to far with its mark hunts (there were way too many of them and most were busy work) so all XIII has to do is trim the fat a bit and it'll be perfect.

More and more RPG's are taking the AI party system that DQIV pioneered over 15 years ago and applying it, and not just JRPG's. The last JRPG I truly enjoyed, Persona 3 FES, was all AI controlled and as linear as hell, and you know what? Best 152 hours I ever spent with a game. Then again, P3 made up for it with a metric ton of NPC's and made interacting with them absolutely crucial to your ability to battle effectively, so may that's not a very good example. Still, it stands as Exhibit A that Linear Does Not Equal Bad.

Flying Arrow
03-07-2010, 11:50 PM
Wait, people are complaining about the lack of mini-games now? This is a bad thing? My favorite part of FF XII was the fact that they ditched all the insipid mini-games in favor of side quests that actually add to the world. Are we really complaining that were cant breed birds, play cards, snowboard, play Underwater Rugby or engage in the Math Olympics? Really?



Stunning, I know. I've never, ever understood some fans' love of FF's garbage mini-games. Triple Triad is probably the only exception, and maybe, maybe Chocobo Hot & Cold. FFX took the bull:bou::bou::bou::bou: to another level, and FFXII is my knight in shining armour for doing away with it.

Give me side-quests and missions that actually involve - get this! - the game's core mechanics and I'll be plenty fat and happy.

VeloZer0
03-08-2010, 12:57 AM
Best way to do mini games is the Gold Saucer way. Include as many as you want, but don't make me play the damn things.

seiferalmasy2
03-08-2010, 02:45 AM
The same thing with the other criticisms. It is ok still liking the game and defending it, but like elsewhere, trying to say these things do not count/matter/exist is not ok.
Well, it is okay when some of them are obviously wrong. Check out the video in my previous post and then carry on saying "There are no NPCs" because quite clearly there are.

If your list of criticisms were all true then yeah, it'd sound like a bit of a dire game. However, many are subjective and, as the video proves, some are downright fabrication.

Yes I am very sorry I used the word "none" instead of "next to none" It was obvious what I was getting at. NPC in XIII is watered down to almost nothing, same way as side quests and mini games and towns. But, we will see what the users think on the whole and I will do you a comparison to the other games in the series....I am expecting very harsh critcisms and reviews in less than 1 month. We shall see ;)

Psychotic
03-08-2010, 04:27 AM
It wasn't to me but hey thanks for clearing it up anyway.

As for harsh criticisms and reviews in less than a month, hey, maybe. I'm not ruling out the possibility that I'll hate the game. But I'm going into it open-minded rather than letting everyone who already has played it make up my mind for me.

Wolf Kanno
03-08-2010, 07:52 AM
A few quick replies before I get to work on some homework I have been ignoring all weekend.




It still doesn't feel like a class system to me. It is more of traits that reflect each character's personality and background than an actual class system. Then again, my idea of a class system is something more like FFV's or FFT's than anything else.

I feel we are having misconception with each others meanings then. When I say "Class system" I mean that each character plays a distinct role and their is no real means of crossing classes over, so I'm referring to the systems used in FFIV and IX respectively. I usually use the term "Job Class" system since the system is assigning jobs and roles to each character. I should have made myself clearer when I originally posted so I'm sorry for not being clear.



I'll give you this since I wasn't looking at it within the context of the series (I also haven't played all of the older installments). I was comparing it more to other RPGs and FFs that had followed it.I was simply trying to point out how it was actually utilized as a major customization option in the game. I would honestly debate that very few games have ever used the system like VI did, at most they just did what came before it or simply used the few relics that held status effects or protection from such, rather than allow the player the ability to give characters abilities and change command options.


I didn't know you could do that, but then again I am the type that tries to explore every inch before I move on, despite the fact that sometimes I am like "Next plot point, kthnx". I guess it depends with me, I do not mind it being linear at all, though as long as it pulls me in. Though, I really hate it when it is too open yet no reward for exploring it, especially when there are random battles. Basically, those instances where you are on the world map, you are not too sure where to go and the path is not so obvious that you end up exploring. Then you end up going far away from your goal, only to turn back and to be slowed by countless random battles. That annoys me to no end.I don't mind backtracking cause it means more battles and loot and I tend to be a "power gamer" at times though I'm not as bad as I used to be. I'll rush through to see the story but its during my second playthrough where I really begin to explore and check out the game fully. If all it has is plot and a bit of gameplay, I have less reason to go back to the game over others. If a game doesn't give me enough reason to come back and replay it, I tend to think less of them cause I tend to replay a lot of my games.

I don't actually mind linear, but I do have a problem with FFX style linearity (which XIII borrows heavily from it seems) where all dungeons and maps are reduced to a simple line. I feel the world is a character in its own right and little things like NPCs and exploration allow me to enjoy and like the world better. One of the complaints I've heard in a few reviews is that despite being an imaginative world, XIII's world never really does anything to make the player care about it and what's going on. I feel part of this reason is the removal of exploration even if it is linear exploration. I get the feeling that XIII will bring back my memories of X in terms of exploring its world where I felt like I was taken to an amusement park with lots of awesome and crazy rides but the only ride I'm allowed on is the crappy slow train ride that is basically a tour of the entire park. It looks like a great place to be, I just wish I could actually get in there and get my hands dirty instead of seeing a few safe highlights from a distance.

Course we'll have to wait and see if XIII's story can make a player actually give a damn but even if it is good, I don't think it will ever change my mind that the game would have been better if they let me stop and smell the roses a few more times.


I haven't heard much about the characters, but more about the over-the-top melodrama. Maybe we should trade sources since we seem to be getting different impressions!We may have to, or perhaps we are just focusing in more on the elements we care the most about. ;)


As I've gotten older, I need more to keep my attention to the game since there are a lot of other things I could be doing or I just get bored of it easily. I've found games that I enjoy their battle system and game mechanics more to be the ones I come back on, especially if I love the characters. Other things have to be good as well, but they are not as important to the experience. I agree that the little things are important to the whole deal, but as long as they are not done poorly (e.g. unlike Xenosaga's music which made the game a bore. WHY DIDN'T THEY USE THE STUFF FROM YUKI KAJIURA?), I won't really notice them as much as the gameplay/battle mechanics or plot.Its the little things packaged with the good story and game mechanics that make me choose that game over the one that simply had a good story and battle system. Course this is all subjective opinion at this point. :)


I find numbers as 5 or 6 to be unbelievable. And before anyone goes "fanboy fanboy fanboy!!!" on my behind, I'm not saying a FF game can't get a low score. But a 5 or 6 indicates that it is a game with glaring technical flaws that only very dedicated people can get enjoyment out of. This does not seem to be the case with XIII. It looks like a very pollished game, with no real technical flaws (like freezing, bad textures, lag or something like that), and it can be enjoyed if you like a story.

That's why I find low scores ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with a FF game not getting nines or tens. But fives or six, really? That Heavy Rain gets points knocked off because it occasionally freezes and has some technical hindrances, ending it in the 7 range (which is still good), yes that I can understand.

But knocking off so much points for linearity and lack of common RPG elements as to place XIII in the department of "flawed games that are only for those who are either very dedicated or don't mind playing an unpolished game"... Seems unrealistic.

7 - 8 seem far more acceptable for XIII. I mean, I hate VI as the worst game in the series, followed by X, but I wouldn't give them 5 or 6 either. They're technically well made and polished games, and deserve points for that. And no ridiculous minusses for "LINEARITY NOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEESSSSSZZZ!!!!" or for Vanille, like XIII is getting.

Maybe I'll speak differently when I get the game, but for now, and from what I've seen of the game, these are my views on low scores. Seems like the only justification for the low scores is the linearity. Makes you wonder why other linear games can still score in the 8's and 9's.

To me 5-7 tells me the game is average or above average, not that its terrible. If the game has a game breaking glitch, for me it should be knocked down to 1 or a two cause by that point its no longer fun or playable. So I'm not offended by the mediocre scores nor do I feel they really detract from me wanting to play the game, it just tells me that I have a 50/50 chance that the game is not really going to "wow" me but it still plays good. Course I take games with 9's or 10's with a grain of salt. I feel the average score is somewhat justified as this game already appears to be a "love it or hate it" type much like FFXII was, so I feel it would be difficult to rate the game as excellent if you felt it was lacking and you didn't have fun with it. That's just my opinion though.


If the problems you list FFT has the following , and does so extremely well.:
1. No towns - Once again this seems to be massively misconstrued.


Alright, enough of these FFT comparisons cause FFT does have towns, tons of them, you just don't get to walk around them like a normal RPG cause FFT is a SRPG and that genre usually never uses towns outside of story context, so its not even expected for them to be treated the same as JRPGs.

You still go to towns, shop, collect info, some that open up side-quests, and even recruit people and do side-quests in the towns. It still fulfills all the qualifications of a traditional JRPG town except you don't get to walk around you simply scroll through some text based options but the towns still have histories that add to the world and you still perform all the functions of a traditional JRPG town. Its not a traditional town but its still a town. XIII has places that are like towns but their is no point in talking to anyone and you can't shop unless their is a save point there. FFT is the function without the structure, XIII sounds like the structure without the function.
*********************************************

To add to the discussion, about the only major concern I'm getting from all the reviews is that it takes the game 15 to 30 hours to actually get to the fun part where the battle system really opens up and it stops feeling like a tutorial and that to me just sounds terrible. I feel like I'm going be having my hand held a lot and I'll be screaming at the game for finally giving me access to crap I felt I should have had ten hours ago. This is easily my biggest concern and possibly game breaker for me. I'm hoping this won't bug me too much.

Elpizo
03-08-2010, 11:55 AM
I'm not even going to say that I don't mind that there are no towns or minigames or NPCs, for then I'll just be stamped as a "fanboy who sucks up whatever SE throws at him" instead of a person who's more flexible in what I like and don't in my game. So sorry for actually accepting something different every now and then! OMGosh, I'm such a fanboy. Herd me, SE! I'm your sheep!

-_-"

And the argument that XIII is a movie is PATHETIC. That one would argue Heavy Rain is one, okay, I can see where you come from. Calling XIII one is just pulling it out of your behind. Game lasts 60 hours, averagely. 10 is said to be movies. So 1/6 of the game is story. The rest is gameplay.

What a sucky movie. More gameplay than movie! Blegh.

seiferalmasy2
03-08-2010, 03:33 PM
And the argument that XIII is a movie is PATHETIC.

It reportedly has 30 hours of cutscenes and the rest is just holding analgue from 1 place to next.

I don't know about you but that accusation doesn't sound pathetic to me at all.

Elpizo
03-08-2010, 03:58 PM
Get your facts straight. It's 10 hours at most, my sources say. Like I said above, 1/6 of the average run through the game is movies.

5/6 is gameplay.

What a sucky movie. Too much gameplay!

seiferalmasy2
03-08-2010, 04:27 PM
and does that include the cinematics?

Yes I have looked around and it appears to be about 10 for cutscens (so I retract the 30 hr claim), and that imho is still too long considering it is just watching characters and battling ina straight line for the first 20 hours.

So I still don't think it is "pathetic" to call FF13 more movie than game, especially when it has cut out a lot of things that many JRPG fans like about the previous games.

Having watched 10 hours on youtube, I know the balance is wrong. That is all I have to say on it, I will be back to discuss this in a month :) Hope people on here really do like the game, and that all these criticisms and personal observations are wrong.

champagne supernova
03-08-2010, 05:34 PM
Metal Gear Solid had a lot of cutscenes, no side-quests, no towns, etc etc. I hope you're not suggesting MGS is a bad game.

Play a game on its merits. Just because its not following the same formula as previous Final Fantasies does not in itself make it a bad game. Yes, I would like an old-school Final Fantasy at some point (and am hoping that Versus might be exactly that), but I am mature enough to go and rate XIII based on what it does well and what it does badly.

Honestly, if you just want new games to be the same as the ones in the PS1 and earlier era, go play those. You can buy FFVII & VIII off the PlayStation Network, and most of the earlier ones you can get off the interweb. And IX should be released on PSN soon as well. Then you can play as much as you want of the same.

Flying Arrow
03-08-2010, 07:49 PM
seiferalmasy, it sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about.

LowCaloriePie
03-08-2010, 08:31 PM
and the rest is just holding analgue from 1 place to next.

Expect to get many game-overs then. :p

Madame Adequate
03-08-2010, 09:14 PM
I'd be interested in seeing how the time in previous games breaks down. I sincerely doubt that there's that much difference between chatting to folks in earlier games, walking from A to B (Just because you could do so in a more squiggly line doesn't change what you were really doing), and fighting.

In any event, GamesRadar (http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/final-fantasy-xiii/review/final-fantasy-xiii/a-201003031765695085/g-20060508175846527007) have made me feel a good bit better about FFXIII. Their review addresses most of my concerns and points out that, well, I love FFX to death and that was linear as hell.

Rase
03-09-2010, 01:47 AM
In an RPG the most important thing is the story. You have your characters and they have their adventure. Adventure = Story. That's the most important thing. Don't tell me you are buying a Final Fantasy because you like the mini games, side quests, et cetera more than the story. You have your character(s) and you have the story. Not without reason a good story can help if the rest is not so good.
On the contrary, I personally hate minigames in most RPG's. However, I see no reason you couldn't argue that gameplay is the most important aspect to a Final Fantasy. Let's see shall we?

I have my characters and they are going off on an adventure. Let's say this adventure is straight forward and boring as hell. However, the battle system, class system, and challenge are all just so perfect that I couldn't care less, as I'm having a blast with even the most basic battles. However, a game could have the best story in the history of the medium, and if I can't get through the battles I won't have much fun or really care about said story. This is actually why I'm looking forward to FFXII more in the coming days; I've heard the battle system is quite fun.



no towns, almost no minigames, almost no exploration, 1 linear line that you are forced to walk for 20 hours, no NPC, no revisiting areas
No towns: So? Really, towns are only a means to buy things and rest up, at least to me.
No minigames: Thank god. Minigames are annoying as hell.
No exploration: Bugs some, not others. I don't quite care. I'd rather be guided than have no clue what the hell to do though.
No NPC: Again, why is this bad really? Oh right, now I can't read that one line of dialog over and over again.
No revisiting areas: How often do you do this, really? I very rarely if ever do unless the plot guides me there.



If I come into a classroom and take away the blackboard, take away the chalk, take away the desks and stools and add in amazing posters of naked women, is it a classroom anymore?
Just wanted to point out the hilarity of this statement. A classroom is nothing more than a place where teaching or learning takes place. Aside from that is needs nothing and can have anything in it. Also, what if this classroom is for teaching the proper way to take a centerfold picture? :p

Lightening
03-09-2010, 02:14 AM
I'll join this debate after I've played the game . . .

seiferalmasy2
03-09-2010, 02:59 AM
so basically Rase, your argument is the old "less is better and is OK" ;)


I love FFX to death and that was linear as hell.

I also love FFX, and there is a big difference. On FFX you could revisit areas. The whole game could be revisited and explored. There were tons of stuff to find. XIII isn't just "linear" it is LITERALLY 1 line for 20 hours and more, with a brief respite "calm lands" like area, minus the minigames and sidequests.

FFX's linear nature is in no way analagous to FFXIII's. If it was, I would not be here arguing why XIII is inferior.


Metal Gear Solid had a lot of cutscenes, no side-quests, no towns, etc etc. I hope you're not suggesting MGS is a bad game.

MGS is not a JRPG. FFXIII is supposed to be and has taken away many of the things that define it as such. MGS4 was a bad game yes. MGS1,2,3 were very good games.

To be frank, I have said what I wanted to on this, and imho, people who have read all the reviews and still buy it in droves, deserve what they get :P

Rase
03-09-2010, 05:39 AM
so basically Rase, your argument is the old "less is better and is OK" ;)
Considering the number of old games that have less to do than newer ones yet are vastly more fun in my opinion, I suppose you could say that. Since that's all you have to say I guess you'll concede that than? ;)


To be frank, I have said what I wanted to on this, and imho, people who have read all the reviews and still buy it in droves, deserve what they get :P
They'll very likely enjoy what they get too.

champagne supernova
03-09-2010, 07:53 AM
13/36 critics gave it a 9 or higher according to Metacritic.
Not quite as good as God of War which got 38/41 9s or highers (and about 21 10/10s), but still very good.
XIII also got 8/36 scores below 8, with only 3 below 7. So, I fail to see how XIII is a bad game.

MGS4 got 65/82 9s or higher - so don't quite understand how you can think its a bad game.

The Summoner of Leviathan
03-09-2010, 09:39 AM
So, I've been playing the game and there are NPCs. You don't do the typical "Press X" to talk thing. Basically what happens is you walk by them and you will overhear them say something. So yeah, the no NPC thing is BS. So far, any place that hasn't had NPCs is because no one in their right mind would be there. :p

Yay for surprise midnight releases~

Rye
03-09-2010, 12:32 PM
My impressions on the NPC thing is that I like it. I don't like having to click each one and worry if I forgot one. I like to just overhear them as I walk by. More realistic.

Raistlin
03-09-2010, 07:10 PM
I think the way that NPCs are done in this game works if the NPCs don't ever have anything important to say, just random or general things.

jammi567
03-09-2010, 07:59 PM
YouTube - machinima's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/machinima#p/u/1/ezNp_BeiAzQ)

Depression Moon
03-15-2010, 10:14 PM
G4 recently gave a review and it troubled me. Not only did they give the game a good score, they had went and said that this is what the genre needs. I was feeling good about this game before I heard that, for one Adam and Morgan used to constantly say that the Final Fantasy franchise is overrated and they poked fun at a lot of JRPGs like Xenosaga. They only like two games out of the whole series besides XIII, so what makes them credible to know what the genre needs?

Rase
03-15-2010, 11:05 PM
G4 recently gave a review and it troubled me. Not only did they give the game a good score, they had went and said that this is what the genre needs. I was feeling good about this game before I heard that, for one Adam and Morgan used to constantly say that the Final Fantasy franchise is overrated and they poked fun at a lot of JRPGs like Xenosaga. They only like two games out of the whole series besides XIII, so what makes them credible to know what the genre needs?
Well if they like a game in a genre that (apparently) they aren't super-fond of, it stands to reason they would think that the genre needs more games like it for them to enjoy. I agree with them overall if your synopsis is accurate; while there will always be a market for the old-school of RPG's (Etrian Odyssey, Dragon Quest, etc), I would love to see more streamlined ones like FFXIII looks to be.

Depression Moon
03-16-2010, 12:55 AM
In that case people should listen to me if someone makes some weird untraditional football entry to a series that has been dedicated to it's fans. (In this case I should not be listened to)

Rase
03-16-2010, 07:25 AM
I'm sure someone will. However, your lack of presence on TV may limit your audience a tad.

Also, Square has hardly been dedicated to it's fans in any way other than squeezing money from them (FFVII Compilation, myriad of re-releases) and pissing them off with each new entry after VII ("Why isn't VIII just like VII?!?" "Why is IX a throwback and not sci-fi? Lame!" "X sucks it's so linear and the voice acting blows!" "XI is an MMO? WTF Square! *rage*" "XII's battle system is boring and why can't I control my party all at once?!?")

Depression Moon
03-17-2010, 01:25 AM
Well I can agree that the fanbase is everywhere and most of them can't agree on what they want.

ANGRYWOLF
03-17-2010, 03:01 AM
Well I can agree that the fanbase is everywhere and most of them can't agree on what they want.

with all the flamewars involving that game.

I don't pay attention to G4's recommedations.They can hate a game or love it.Whether I buy it won't be determine by what they think of it.

Is FFXIII all it could have been ? No. Would I have designed it differently and I feel better if I had been the producer ?Surely.
But it is what it is and if you look at the interview with Toriyama he doesn't seem inclined to make western style changes or to go back to fuller games.He seems to like this "streamlining" he did with this game and if it sells well as it seem to be doing Square has no incentive to change.

:(

Siegurd
03-17-2010, 05:21 AM
It just comes down to this:

Everyone is searching for that new VI, new VII, new *insert favorite game in the series* that'll singlehandedly "revitalize the series" for them.

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, that is never going to happen. What made these games so great wasn't even necessarily gameplay, story, mechanics, or any of the other commonly quoted reasons (do you seriously want to make the argument that a menu game is fun and intuitive?).

The fact is that those games that are so commonly quoted as the favorites were pretty much genre defining games for reasons almost entirely not related to the game. Usually it was either the person's first Final Fantasy and sticks as their favorite in the genre for nostalgic reasons (regardless of whether or not they want to admit it). If your first Final Fantasy was X and you grew to be a fan of Final Fantasy, I'm going to bet that FFX is probably going to be your favorite FF. You will never again have the first Final Fantasy game experience. Or the game left an indelible impact on the minds of the players for social reasons and cannot be reproduced. Half the reason the killing of Aeris was so shocking was that A. ) No one expected that to happen in a game...character's don't die for really reals in games...and those that had died in games before didn't have the additional effect of being in 3-D, the fact that the game was so graphically advanced for the time added a great deal to the impact of that scene vs. an 8 bit, 16 bit, et cetera character's death. And B. ) that was my healer...man...

I would bet my income on that if FFVII was re-released with revamped graphics that the Aeris death scene won't be as powerful as it was the first time you saw it. Unless of course it was your very first exposure to the game - and even then it won't be as big of a deal as it was when the game came out.

I could go on, but I'll save the details. FFXIII has it's problems, but you know, I'll give you a list of problems and reasons not to play any of the FF games out there. And on the other token I can also give you a myriad of reasons why it's a good game to play (I might have to realllly go out of my way for X-2 though, that was, well. We don't speak of that one).

So you can either focus on every flaw and ruin your game experience or you can take the game for what it's worth and have some fun. Take your pick. But if you're looking to see your favorite final fantasy you're going to be disappointed.

Croyles
03-17-2010, 05:42 AM
It just comes down to this:

Everyone is searching for that new VI, new VII, new *insert favorite game in the series* that'll singlehandedly "revitalize the series" for them.

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, that is never going to happen. What made these games so great wasn't even necessarily gameplay, story, mechanics, or any of the other commonly quoted reasons (do you seriously want to make the argument that a menu game is fun and intuitive?).

The fact is that those games that are so commonly quoted as the favorites were pretty much genre defining games for reasons almost entirely not related to the game. Usually it was either the person's first Final Fantasy and sticks as their favorite in the genre for nostalgic reasons (regardless of whether or not they want to admit it). If your first Final Fantasy was X and you grew to be a fan of Final Fantasy, I'm going to bet that FFX is probably going to be your favorite FF. You will never again have the first Final Fantasy game experience. Or the game left an indelible impact on the minds of the players for social reasons and cannot be reproduced. Half the reason the killing of Aeris was so shocking was that A. ) No one expected that to happen in a game...character's don't die for really reals in games...and those that had died in games before didn't have the additional effect of being in 3-D, the fact that the game was so graphically advanced for the time added a great deal to the impact of that scene vs. an 8 bit, 16 bit, et cetera character's death. And B. ) that was my healer...man...

I would bet my income on that if FFVII was re-released with revamped graphics that the Aeris death scene won't be as powerful as it was the first time you saw it. Unless of course it was your very first exposure to the game - and even then it won't be as big of a deal as it was when the game came out.

I could go on, but I'll save the details. FFXIII has it's problems, but you know, I'll give you a list of problems and reasons not to play any of the FF games out there. And on the other token I can also give you a myriad of reasons why it's a good game to play (I might have to realllly go out of my way for X-2 though, that was, well. We don't speak of that one).

So you can either focus on every flaw and ruin your game experience or you can take the game for what it's worth and have some fun. Take your pick. But if you're looking to see your favorite final fantasy you're going to be disappointed.

Thank you. Ive been saying this for eons but not quite as direct.

FFXIII has a lot of problems, but also a lot of good things about it, just like with every other FF. The question is, are you prepared to play it for what it is and will it ultimately give you a joyful experience that outweighs all the negatives?
With most FF games it has been yes for me, even when there are some glaring issues.

Final Fantasy is unique in the aspect that every game is different, this is very good, but it also creates the unique problems within the fanbase and critics. No 2 of these people can agree on what makes a good Final Fantasy, so naturally the older the series gets, the more the 'fanbase' is split everytime between people who love it and hate it (the inbetweeners arent as loud as the rest).

Depression Moon
03-17-2010, 09:30 PM
It just comes down to this:

Everyone is searching for that new VI, new VII, new *insert favorite game in the series* that'll singlehandedly "revitalize the series" for them.

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, that is never going to happen. What made these games so great wasn't even necessarily gameplay, story, mechanics, or any of the other commonly quoted reasons (do you seriously want to make the argument that a menu game is fun and intuitive?).



If no one here didn't believe this then why are they here and why do you play the games? also with the validation that a series can't revitalize itself with a series that is similar to the game you first played and loved, well I can personally say that outside of this series, Zelda and Mario have been able to do it.

Siegurd
03-18-2010, 06:43 AM
Note that I didn't state there aren't games that could 'revitalize' an established series, but rather that there isn't going to be a singular game that revitalizes the series for each individual member of the fanbase precisely because it's such a long running series with different experiences and expectations. Honestly, XIII did a lot to revitalize enthusiasm for me, and I started with the original. I'm not going to make the argument that XIII is a perfect game, and I'm not going to make the argument that any of them were perfect games. One of my favorite aspects of XIII is precisely the small references scattered here and there to the older games.

Someone whose first game was X is going to have a drastically different opinion of what needs to be done to revitalize the series than someone who started with IV, and while there are common middle grounds, rarely is this going to please both sides to the extent that would be necessary to satisfy either camp. There are some specific traits that define what a Final Fantasy is - and as long as those are maintained I'm all for attempts to fine tune the machine. But then again, I went into XIII with no expectation what so ever after having been so disappointed with XII.

So you could argue that I like XIII because the battle system is better than XIII's, or you could argue that I like XIII's battle system because I had already played through a lot of the Shin Megami Tensei games and was already okay with the whole "main character death = game over" aspect. It's anyone's guess, and it doesn't matter.

XIII has a good story (would have been great had there been a little bit better story-telling mechanics)

XIII has great gameplay - it's fast paced, requires on the fly stratagem changes and has a new-age feeling to it while maintaining classic FF qualities (ATB) that people are familiar with. It's far and away the best system battle system they've had so far. It certainly helped to add an epic feeling to certain fights and you couldn't necessarily just completely out pace the content by over-leveling, which isn't a bad thing.

XIII has top of the line graphical capabilities and is just a beautiful world to walk around in.

Individual fights in XIII have the ability to just wipe you out - making the content overall better as opposed to "just losing because you're slowly whittled away." This adds more challenge to the game overall - since there's no mana and you refill hp upon battle completion it allows you to go all out and use tools that otherwise don't get used often because it's not mana efficient in the long run.

XIII didn't totally make summons completely worthless, albeit some of the limitations needed to be adjusted for the relative power each has.

XIII's linearity really isn't something you end up getting irritated about because of the active story telling and the fact that you're kept in a fairly fast paced state the whole time unless you consciously choose to stop. This is something I doubt that people who don't read reviews or the like would ever key in on until they heard someone else say something. However, there is a pretty linear aspect to it, there isn't really a feel for something going on behind the scenes, you don't get lost in a world, you're focused completely on the task, there aren't really any big huge surprises (but I guess that card has been played to death) to make you go "wow." But for the story it does make sense, i mean they kind of are focused to get their task done pretty quickly.

XIII has tons of references both obvious and subtle to previous FF titles - let's face it, regardless of your opinion for IX, being introduced to Cid on the Lindblum was pretty cool, as an example of one of the more obvious references.

I'd say those attributes make for a pretty solid FF.

eestlinc
03-18-2010, 08:00 AM
In any event, GamesRadar (http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/final-fantasy-xiii/review/final-fantasy-xiii/a-201003031765695085/g-20060508175846527007) have made me feel a good bit better about FFXIII. Their review addresses most of my concerns and points out that, well, I love FFX to death and that was linear as hell.
Yea, that review was key to my excitement for the game, and I haven't even played FFX.


The fact is that those games that are so commonly quoted as the favorites were pretty much genre defining games for reasons almost entirely not related to the game. Usually it was either the person's first Final Fantasy and sticks as their favorite in the genre for nostalgic reasons (regardless of whether or not they want to admit it). If your first Final Fantasy was X and you grew to be a fan of Final Fantasy, I'm going to bet that FFX is probably going to be your favorite FF. You will never again have the first Final Fantasy game experience. Or the game left an indelible impact on the minds of the players for social reasons and cannot be reproduced. Half the reason the killing of Aeris was so shocking was that A. ) No one expected that to happen in a game...character's don't die for really reals in games...and those that had died in games before didn't have the additional effect of being in 3-D, the fact that the game was so graphically advanced for the time added a great deal to the impact of that scene vs. an 8 bit, 16 bit, et cetera character's death. And B. ) that was my healer...man...
I have been playing FF games since the original. I loved FFI and FFIV growing up, and FFVI was amazing, but none of those are my favorite FF game, or even among my favorite, nor am I looking for retreads of those games (or FFVII or FFV or FFT). I am really enjoying FFXIII so far, as the great new game it is.

Croyles
03-18-2010, 06:28 PM
I have been playing FF games since the original. I loved FFI and FFIV growing up, and FFVI was amazing, but none of those are my favorite FF game, or even among my favorite, nor am I looking for retreads of those games (or FFVII or FFV or FFT). I am really enjoying FFXIII so far, as the great new game it is.

Well in that case your in the blissful minority :)

Elpizo
03-18-2010, 09:11 PM
I'm up to chapter 11 now, and I must say it's been a blast to play so far, and I can firmly say I disagree with all those negative reviews whining about "linearity", "no NPCs!" and "no towns!". If the story had been dragged down by that kind of nonsense, I would have been sorely disappointed. Few have been the times that I wanted to see the next cutscene as fast as possible, and luckily for me, XIII is designed to do just that.

Gameplay is very enjoyable, as good as XII's was, though grinding for items or CP is less fun and fluid as hunting for loot was in XII. Graphics are gorgeous, especially in chapter 11. And the cast is the best ever in a FF game.

I'd give it between 8 and 9 just for being fun and enjoyable. The lack of towns, NPCs (which are both actually there) or minigames I've barely noticed.

Jings
03-18-2010, 09:27 PM
I'm up to chapter 11 now, and I must say it's been a blast to play so far, and I can firmly say I disagree with all those negative reviews whining about "linearity", "no NPCs!" and "no towns!". If the story had been dragged down by that kind of nonsense, I would have been sorely disappointed.

I'm having a 'blast' with FFXIII too but I disagree with the notion that the addition of towns and NPC's would have been disappointing. The main complaint I have with the game so far is that, from what I can see, there have been no real departures from the telling of the story. This is a problem because some of the most memorable scenes from video games, for me anyway, don't necessarily advance the plot in any way. The date scene in FFVII for example. There was no point to it, it was just a couple of friends having some fun at an amusement park.

It's all down to what you like I guess. For me, I like to explore towns and talk to random people. I like to feel that the 'quest' I'm on isn't the only thing going on in the world, and the character's take time out to just enjoy themselves. I suppose when you're a ticking C'ieth time bomb though you don't have the luxury of relaxing in the pub and having a pint.

Elpizo
03-19-2010, 12:20 AM
But from a story point of view, having towns or NPCs to talk to would not make sense. The world hates you. =/

Jings
03-19-2010, 12:29 AM
Well no one will know you're a l'Cie if you keep your brand hidden so I don't see why interacting with NPC's would have been difficult.

LowCaloriePie
03-19-2010, 12:34 AM
Well no one will know you're a l'Cie if you keep your brand hidden so I don't see why interacting with NPC's would have been difficult.

But that would require a costume change! :p

seiferalmasy2
03-19-2010, 12:54 AM
But from a story point of view, having towns or NPCs to talk to would not make sense. The world hates you. =/

That isn't the reason why there aren't NPC. The decision had nothing to do with the story. In the same way Avalanche members can talk to Shin-Ra soldiers and Shin-Ra's mayor, and even Palmer.

There are no NPC because the game designers chose not to have them, same way they chose not to have towns because "It was too hard to do in HD"

This whole "the story doesn't permit it" is largely a cop out to try and excuse what they did.

ANGRYWOLF
03-19-2010, 02:27 AM
I'm up to chapter 11 now, and I must say it's been a blast to play so far, and I can firmly say I disagree with all those negative reviews whining about "linearity", "no NPCs!" and "no towns!". If the story had been dragged down by that kind of nonsense, I would have been sorely disappointed. Few have been the times that I wanted to see the next cutscene as fast as possible, and luckily for me, XIII is designed to do just that.

Gameplay is very enjoyable, as good as XII's was, though grinding for items or CP is less fun and fluid as hunting for loot was in XII. Graphics are gorgeous, especially in chapter 11. And the cast is the best ever in a FF game.

I'd give it between 8 and 9 just for being fun and enjoyable. The lack of towns, NPCs (which are both actually there) or minigames I've barely noticed.

If people like it that's fine and I expect to like it when I play it but I hope people don't make up reasons to defend the game by taking shots at things that worked well in previous games.

If FFV has towns and is loaded with npcs I fully expect to give it a shot like I do with this game.I won't criticize it for having those things and while I would have preferred them to be in this game I won't slam it for not having them.:p

Elpizo
03-19-2010, 11:12 AM
I'm up to chapter 11 now, and I must say it's been a blast to play so far, and I can firmly say I disagree with all those negative reviews whining about "linearity", "no NPCs!" and "no towns!". If the story had been dragged down by that kind of nonsense, I would have been sorely disappointed. Few have been the times that I wanted to see the next cutscene as fast as possible, and luckily for me, XIII is designed to do just that.

Gameplay is very enjoyable, as good as XII's was, though grinding for items or CP is less fun and fluid as hunting for loot was in XII. Graphics are gorgeous, especially in chapter 11. And the cast is the best ever in a FF game.

I'd give it between 8 and 9 just for being fun and enjoyable. The lack of towns, NPCs (which are both actually there) or minigames I've barely noticed.

If people like it that's fine and I expect to like it when I play it but I hope people don't make up reasons to defend the game by taking shots at things that worked well in previous games.

If FFV has towns and is loaded with npcs I fully expect to give it a shot like I do with this game.I won't criticize it for having those things and while I would have preferred them to be in this game I won't slam it for not having them.:p
I'm not taking shots at previous FF games. Towns and NPCs were in there, okay, no problem, didn't mind and never will. They aren't in XIII. Okay, no problem, I don't mind and never will. XIII has a good and interesting story, and I'm glad they made it so that it flows as quickly as possible.

Madame Adequate
03-19-2010, 11:33 AM
But from a story point of view, having towns or NPCs to talk to would not make sense. The world hates you. =/

That isn't the reason why there aren't NPC. The decision had nothing to do with the story. In the same way Avalanche members can talk to Shin-Ra soldiers and Shin-Ra's mayor, and even Palmer.

There are no NPC because the game designers chose not to have them, same way they chose not to have towns because "It was too hard to do in HD"

This whole "the story doesn't permit it" is largely a cop out to try and excuse what they did.

Or maybe they're now better at writing stories.

Loony BoB
03-19-2010, 03:06 PM
I'm kind of baffled about the "no towns" "no shops" and "no NPCs" because this game has all three of them. There are towns - admittedly not as many as usual, but that is predominantly due to the nature of the story and the worlds, and it's all reasonable from what I can see.

No shops? Uhm, yes there are. Not physically visitable ones, no, but really - who cares? I honestly can't imagine a reason to be annoyed at the lack of physically visitable stores because, well, what's the point? If there are online stores then there isn't a place to stop into, and you need that... because... why, again? When has there been an FF where the physical store was so amazing? It was just a place to go to buy stuff. You still have places to go to buy stuff, so there shouldn't be a problem.

No NPCs? I'm sorry, are you playing a different game? There are loads of them... maybe you're in a specific area of the game where you don't see them, but last I checked, they're in the first chapter and continue to exist throughout other chapters in this game. I can think of at least... four 'areas' with them. If not more. And again, for the areas without them, that suits the area and suits the nature of the story.

Darn Square Enix for having the settings and style of their story make sense?

Raistlin
03-19-2010, 03:52 PM
I think a more valid criticism than "no shops" is how forgettable most of the shops are for the majority of the game. I haven't bought a single weapon or item from a shop. I've bought a bunch of certain types of components and a couple of accessories, and I'm in chapter 11.

Again, a more valid criticism than "no NPCs" is how insignificant every NPC is. The only way to learn stuff is through cutscenes and the Datalog, and the only way to do sidequests is wait until chapter 11 to accept them from crystals; similarly, the only way to shop is by going to a save point. It's like the world does not really exist outside of the six party members.

Loony BoB
03-19-2010, 04:11 PM
I'm the same, admittedly, with what I've actually bothered to purchase. But I suppose that's more to do with the lack of need for items than anything.

I see what you mean with the second part, although I still think that's largely due to the nature of the story more than anything else. There are indirect things you can do for the people, though. I remember I reunited two people by winning a battle at one point. Before I beat the enemy, they were looking for each other, once I beat them, they were all "oh yay there you are". No reward and no conversation with my characters, mind you. I do miss that end of things, I suppose, but at the same time it's only now that I consider it. I mean, it's no fault of the game that I've been so swept up in things that I didn't think about the lack of direct interactions with NPCs 'til now. :D

Raistlin
03-19-2010, 06:01 PM
I noticed it quite early on. It's more of a problem with immersion than with the story or characters; I feel connected to the characters, but I don't feel at all connected with the world. The only thing I know about the different people or cultures is from reading the Datalog. As I said, it's like the world and everyone in it does not really exist outside of the six party members. This is mostly a problem of the severe linearity of the first 10 chapters along with a complete lack of substantive interaction outside of the six main characters. Who are the minor characters in the game? You could argue for a couple, but they're very weak.

That being said, I think the game has taken strides in certain other areas (battle system, especially, and I also like the Mark system and pretty much everything else introduced by chapter 11).

Loony BoB
03-19-2010, 08:01 PM
Fair enough. I agree they could have done immersion better, making you feel like you had a bit more control of the character and interacting with the world and it's people.

ANGRYWOLF
03-20-2010, 12:10 AM
I noticed it quite early on. It's more of a problem with immersion than with the story or characters; I feel connected to the characters, but I don't feel at all connected with the world. The only thing I know about the different people or cultures is from reading the Datalog. As I said, it's like the world and everyone in it does not really exist outside of the six party members. This is mostly a problem of the severe linearity of the first 10 chapters along with a complete lack of substantive interaction outside of the six main characters. Who are the minor characters in the game? You could argue for a couple, but they're very weak.

That being said, I think the game has taken strides in certain other areas (battle system, especially, and I also like the Mark system and pretty much everything else introduced by chapter 11).

that's why you need towns and npcs. To connect to the world and to its people.

shrugs.

For an rpg to be "deep" you really need that.

Maybe the producers will realize that at some future point.;)

Meat Puppet
04-01-2010, 10:45 AM
contributing to an old thread because starting a new one would be twice as redundant

The Escapist : Video Galleries : Zero Punctuation : Final Fantasy XIII (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1569-Final-Fantasy-XIII)

Croyles
04-01-2010, 11:30 AM
contributing to an old thread because starting a new one would be twice as redundant

The Escapist : Video Galleries : Zero Punctuation : Final Fantasy XIII (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1569-Final-Fantasy-XIII)

Aaahhhh good old Yahtzee :)
Well before even watching it I can tell you that his review is pointless as
1. He probably only played around 6 hours
2. He hates all Jrpgs anyway.
3. The only games he has ever said he liked are God of War and Sands of Time

I'll check it out later for giggles :D

Meat Puppet
04-01-2010, 01:49 PM
your first point is dangerously close to the truth!

Rase
04-01-2010, 03:00 PM
Aaahhhh good old Yahtzee :)
Well before even watching it I can tell you that his review is pointless
His review is hardly pointless; it's point is just to stir up the fanboys and humor the rest (I'm assuming, if FFXIII's review is like any other high-profile ones he's slammed).


3. The only games he has ever said he liked are God of War and Sands of Time

He's said positive things about plenty of games though. Off the top of my head he liked Silent Hill 2, the Thief series (these two really just makes him awesome in my book), Left 4 Dead, Saints Row 2, Beyond Good & Evil, Fallout 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure, No More Heroes, Call of Duty 4, Psychonauts, Resident Evil 4 , and The Orange Box (particularly Portal). Based on those I'd say his tastes are for a lot of good games (but again, he gave props to the Thief series, so I'm already on board with him. Those games need more love).

I look forward to watching the video after classes get out.

seiferalmasy2
04-01-2010, 03:26 PM
contributing to an old thread because starting a new one would be twice as redundant

The Escapist : Video Galleries : Zero Punctuation : Final Fantasy XIII (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1569-Final-Fantasy-XIII)


Did you see me link that at tls? :D Anyway it is hilarious and mostly true imho!

Croyles
04-01-2010, 05:32 PM
Aaahhhh good old Yahtzee :)
Well before even watching it I can tell you that his review is pointless
His review is hardly pointless; it's point is just to stir up the fanboys and humor the rest (I'm assuming, if FFXIII's review is like any other high-profile ones he's slammed).


3. The only games he has ever said he liked are God of War and Sands of Time

He's said positive things about plenty of games though. Off the top of my head he liked Silent Hill 2, the Thief series (these two really just makes him awesome in my book), Left 4 Dead, Saints Row 2, Beyond Good & Evil, Fallout 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure, No More Heroes, Call of Duty 4, Psychonauts, Resident Evil 4 , and The Orange Box (particularly Portal). Based on those I'd say his tastes are for a lot of good games (but again, he gave props to the Thief series, so I'm already on board with him. Those games need more love).

I look forward to watching the video after classes get out.

He likes ELEMENTS from those games. The only games he likes overall really are God of War, Sands of Time, and maybe even that one Spider-Man game. But again, thats just his online persona.

He reviews games to slam them for comedic purposes, I doubt you'll argue against that...

When I said pointless, i meant irrelevant. I love watching his videos, but if I took him seriously, I would pretty much be hating my whole catalogue of games.

Flying Arrow
04-02-2010, 12:26 AM
He knocks games and seems to have great fun doing it, but I don't think he's completely un-serious about what he says. A lot of his criticisms of games are pretty spot-on and he has a habit of mentioning flaws that big name websites seem to skip over in lieu of their Graphics/Sound/Control templates.

Say what you will about his nitpicking and JRPG-bashing tendencies, but he is right about one thing: this game is terrible. I just wish he'd played it more so he could really rip into why it sucks.

Croyles
04-02-2010, 01:08 AM
The game is awesome, so hes not spot on....

Wolf Kanno
04-02-2010, 01:15 AM
I like Yahtzee's reviews though I may not always agree with them but at the same time I can't disagree with his problems with a title.

I adore MGS4 and TWEWY which were two titles he totally trashed and hated on, yet I can't really disagree with any of the problems he had with the game beyond subjective elements like story. That said, I do agree with a lot of elements in his review of XIII, though I haven't finished the title, I feel all his complaints are pretty valid. Whether they make the game a terrible experience for the player really depends on your own personal taste though...

Whenever I get around to finishing XIII I'll make my own review or at least a thread for people to post their own reviews. :D

Raistlin
04-02-2010, 01:17 AM
He does make some valid points though, as usual. "It gets better 20 hours in" is not a point in favor of any game, and the majority of the game is obnoxiously linear.

Wolf Kanno
04-02-2010, 01:23 AM
That's actually one of his points I felt really hit the nail on the head concerning this game.

Rase
04-02-2010, 08:40 AM
He likes ELEMENTS from those games. The only games he likes overall really are God of War, Sands of Time, and maybe even that one Spider-Man game. But again, thats just his online persona.
Man, if you have a list of games that you love everything about, good for you. The rest of the world (I'm fairly certain) has no problem admitting games they like have issues, which I suppose means they like elements of them. I love Shadow of the Colossus, Resident Evil 4, Final Fantasy IV, and a myriad of other games; not one would I say is flawless, all have elements I dislike (Shadow of the Colossus lacked anything other than boss fights and an empty world, Resident Evil 4 didn't scare me once and had annoying escort crap, and FFIV spoils the dramatic punch of party death along with pulling the Big Bad out of nowhere). I would still list them as favorites and recommend them to anyone with good taste in gaming. Also, he thinks Portal is better than Jesus, so I think that's good praise.



He reviews games to slam them for comedic purposes, I doubt you'll argue against that...

it's point is just to stir up the fanboys and humor the rest (I'm assuming, if FFXIII's review is like any other high-profile ones he's slammed).
Glad you agree though.



When I said pointless, i meant irrelevant. I love watching his videos, but if I took him seriously, I would pretty much be hating my whole catalogue of games.
Or you could take him seriously and think for yourself about whether your opinions match his. Works pretty well for me. I have little doubt that a lot of what Yahtzee says is his real feelings on games, sometimes exaggerated if he thinks his audience will enjoy it more. Hyperbole is often hilarious, but also grounded in some truth.


The game is awesome, so hes not spot on....
The game is mediocre, so he's spot on.

Oh man, see what I did there?

seiferalmasy2
04-02-2010, 11:20 AM
The game is awesome, so hes not spot on....

Game? I sure don't see one...I thought game meant gameplay and minigames and interactivity...

Not a movie with a few battles.

Croyles
04-02-2010, 11:43 AM
So clever....

Elpizo
04-02-2010, 12:30 PM
The game is awesome, so hes not spot on....

Game? I sure don't see one...I thought game meant gameplay and minigames and interactivity...

Not a movie with a few battles.
Is your purpose to be believable, or do you just post nonsense to annoy people? If the latter, good job, you succeeded. Pat yourself on the back. Now go back and actually play FF XIII. Because there's no way you've played it. With just "a few battles" you don't make it through chapter 11.

If XIII is a movie, what do you call Heavy Rain? A game?

demondude
04-02-2010, 12:56 PM
Why do people complain so much if they don't like a game? Nobody forced money in your hand to buy the bloody thing. Go outside and play or something.

Croyles
04-02-2010, 01:06 PM
Why do people complain so much if they don't like a game? Nobody forced money in your hand to buy the bloody thing. Go outside and play or something.

:D

seiferalmasy2
04-02-2010, 02:54 PM
The game is awesome, so hes not spot on....

Game? I sure don't see one...I thought game meant gameplay and minigames and interactivity...

Not a movie with a few battles.
Is your purpose to be believable, or do you just post nonsense to annoy people? If the latter, good job, you succeeded. Pat yourself on the back. Now go back and actually play FF XIII. Because there's no way you've played it. With just "a few battles" you don't make it through chapter 11.

If XIII is a movie, what do you call Heavy Rain? A game?

That was obviously not intended to be "few" it was just a figure of speech. There are actually thousands of useless battles, does that make you feel better? Sure as hell makes me think the game is actually worse considering 20 hours of the game are basically autobattle (adn 2 AI controlled characters) and so are more.

Luckily I don't need to sell the game as I never bought it. I quite clearly stated that I wasn't foolish enough to. I looked at vids, walk throughs and reviews, and concluded I would not like it anymore than I liked XII and its dumbing down.

If I annoy you, maybe you need to separate your emotions for agame and real life? I haven't played Heavy Rain either, so that is a rather pointless argument.

Elpizo
04-02-2010, 06:11 PM
Useless? If the battles in XIII are useless, then so is every other battle in the FF series that isn't a boss. After all, you need normal battles for CP, like in other FFs you need it for EXP or Spheres. And if you did only autobattle, I'm sure you never got past the second chapter or so, for from chapter three and onwards you need to shift your paradigms quite often. In fact, I still don't think you played the game. You're just bashing it for the hell of it and to annoy people. That is called trolling.

- You want minigames? There ARE minigames. One in Vile Peaks, later on chocobos.
- You want sidequests? There ARE sidequests.
- You want exploring? There IS exploring.
- You want NPCs? There ARE NPCs.
- You want towns? There are towns.
- You want gameplay? There is gameplay, quite a lot of it, too.
- You want battles? There are battles, and not at all useless. And you'll be glad the AI takes care of your party members, too.
- You want to have at least some control over your entire party during battle, though? You can, use the paradigm shift system, and use Libra to optimize their way of thinking.
- You want to customize your characters? You can.
- You want to find ultimate weapons? You can.
- You want a story? It's there.
- You want to develop your characters like with a Sphere Grid or Exp? You can. It's called the Crystarium System.

Face it boy, you don't know what you're talking about. You did not play the game, you merely watched some others play or read reviews that might or might not have been biased. You did that, then decided "and now I'll amuse myself by looking down on everybody who bought the came and likes it and call them fools! Ha, what great fun! And for extra fun, I'll tear down FF XIII with arguments that are laughable at best and can be disproven in an instant, but I'll just ignore that!".

If you annoy me, maybe it's because you're making the time I spend on this forum not enjoyable because you're screaming hate with baseless arguments like XIII is a movie and has no gameplay? There are quite some other games out there that are far more "movie, not game" than XIII, and in fact calling XIII a movie is just a sign of either not having played the game or simple trolling.

As far as I'm concerned, one can dislike XIII, but only for reasons that aren't actually plain absurd or have no base. And if you haven't played it, then you certainly shouldn't complain about its gameplay or lack of it. You haven't played it, so you don't know what you're talking about.

If you're that eager to play a traditional RPG, go take White Knight Chronicles or Star Ocean IV from the store and stop trolling FF XIII. That way, you'll have something you like, and XIII doesn't have to bear your hating anymore. Seems win-win to me.

Rase
04-02-2010, 08:37 PM
Why do people complain so much if they don't like a game? Nobody forced money in your hand to buy the bloody thing. Go outside and play or something.
1. If people liked the game they probably wouldn't complain as much. Kinda how it works.
2. Why complain about people complaining? No one is forcing you to come to read their responses, or even read this thread, or even go to this forum. Go outside and play or something.
3. It's kinda human nature to tell our thoughts on something, explain them, and (if they are different than another's) to compare and contrast the differing opinions (with both's sides wanting to convince the other they are dumb and wrong). Welcome to the internet/politics/any debate.
4. Being contrarian is fun.

seiferalmasy2
04-03-2010, 12:27 AM
Useless? If the battles in XIII are useless, then so is every other battle in the FF series that isn't a boss. After all, you need normal battles for CP, like in other FFs you need it for EXP or Spheres. And if you did only autobattle, I'm sure you never got past the second chapter or so, for from chapter three and onwards you need to shift your paradigms quite often. In fact, I still don't think you played the game. You're just bashing it for the hell of it and to annoy people. That is called trolling.

- You want minigames? There ARE minigames. One in Vile Peaks, later on chocobos.
- You want sidequests? There ARE sidequests.
- You want exploring? There IS exploring.
- You want NPCs? There ARE NPCs.
- You want towns? There are towns.
- You want gameplay? There is gameplay, quite a lot of it, too.
- You want battles? There are battles, and not at all useless. And you'll be glad the AI takes care of your party members, too.
- You want to have at least some control over your entire party during battle, though? You can, use the paradigm shift system, and use Libra to optimize their way of thinking.
- You want to customize your characters? You can.
- You want to find ultimate weapons? You can.
- You want a story? It's there.
- You want to develop your characters like with a Sphere Grid or Exp? You can. It's called the Crystarium System.

Face it boy, you don't know what you're talking about. You did not play the game, you merely watched some others play or read reviews that might or might not have been biased. You did that, then decided "and now I'll amuse myself by looking down on everybody who bought the came and likes it and call them fools! Ha, what great fun! And for extra fun, I'll tear down FF XIII with arguments that are laughable at best and can be disproven in an instant, but I'll just ignore that!".

If you annoy me, maybe it's because you're making the time I spend on this forum not enjoyable because you're screaming hate with baseless arguments like XIII is a movie and has no gameplay? There are quite some other games out there that are far more "movie, not game" than XIII, and in fact calling XIII a movie is just a sign of either not having played the game or simple trolling.

As far as I'm concerned, one can dislike XIII, but only for reasons that aren't actually plain absurd or have no base. And if you haven't played it, then you certainly shouldn't complain about its gameplay or lack of it. You haven't played it, so you don't know what you're talking about.

If you're that eager to play a traditional RPG, go take White Knight Chronicles or Star Ocean IV from the store and stop trolling FF XIII. That way, you'll have something you like, and XIII doesn't have to bear your hating anymore. Seems win-win to me.

Here we go again, emotional nonsense mixed with illogical nonsense. Let us begin:


If the battles in XIII are useless, then so is every other battle in the FF series that isn't a boss.

Straw man. I did not call XIII battles useless simply because they are battles. If you go back far enough you will see my criticism is levelled at

a. Taking 2 characters away from the players control

b. Dumbing down Summons to a status where they aren't even needed and are purely eye candy (and ridiculous)

c. Introducing a lame system where you simply choose a few actions and most of the game is spent selecting auto battle (yes this really is a common complaint, I suggest you pull your head out of your arse and go read a few reviews). I am well aware the toughness of battles increases later in the game, but I am afraid that does not excuse the snail pace involvment or make the argument less valid.

d. That there are barely any real stats and customisation is also a lot less than previous FF's (Forget XII, that was the same problem but not as bad as this)

e. That all you do in this game is fight and watch a cutscene. There is nothing to break this up unlike other FF's where you were allowed to explore at your own leisure.


That is called trolling.

I am not the one turning this into a personal feud and then getting all excited when someone holds a completely different view to me. You protect this game with straw men and half truths, let us move on:


- You want minigames? There ARE minigames. One in Vile Peaks, later on chocobos.

The chocobo thing is a consolation and the minigames there are are small in number and pathetic. Let me remind you that the creators of this game said they could not do minigames because of HD. Yes, now, you want to argue with them too? There is a reason they defended the games lack of a PROPER minigame, like cards in FF8,9,Blitzball and chocobo racing to name 2 in X and gold saucer in VII. Please stop trying to make comparisons that ARE NOT THERE.


- You want sidequests? There ARE sidequests.

Yes more battles.


- You want exploring? There IS exploring.

Missing the point again, the point being that it has never been this restrictive and forcing.


- You want NPCs? There ARE NPCs.

They are far fewer in number and non interactive. They are not as well rounded in dialogue as in other FF's.


- You want towns? There are towns.

Again, they are not traditional or as engaging. Again the creators stated this was because of complocations with HD. You are trying to tell me that they defended the game against this and acknowledged there were real issues but....there aren't? Stop missing the point.


- You want gameplay? There is gameplay, quite a lot of it, too.

Replay value is pretty much near 0. The gameplay is bsed on number of minigames and their involvment, the battle system and sidequests all of which are severely lacking in this game compared to other FF's (except XII)


- You want battles? There are battles, and not at all useless. And you'll be glad the AI takes care of your party members, too.

I should be glad that the game is dumbing down for mass market appeal and taking interactivity away? Are you backwards?


- You want to have at least some control over your entire party during battle, though? You can, use the paradigm shift system, and use Libra to optimize their way of thinking.

Let me get this straight you think selecting a scan and then watching them attack is a good thing?


- You want to customize your characters? You can.

And dumbed down and less involved than othr FF's. This is like the 5th time you have tried to weedle out of this point.


- You want to find ultimate weapons? You can.

Make that 6.


- You want a story? It's there.

Yeah, and more bloated and melodramatic than ever before. Even forces you to read silly manuals in order to understand more of the plot.


- You want to develop your characters like with a Sphere Grid or Exp? You can. It's called the Crystarium System.


And you fail to mention how

It caps how far you can upgrade it until much later in the game. But this is a minor issue and I don't think this saves this train wreck.


Face it boy, you don't know what you're talking about.

Then nor do Edge, nor do 15 professional reviewers. Nor do atleast 30 users I have reviewed from and nor doe smy own knowledge from watching this game extensively on youtube. Please don't try to tell me that watching it on Youtube doesn't count because it does.


this forum not enjoyable because you're screaming hate with baseless arguments like XIII is a movie and has no gameplay?

Maybe you are too emotional about a game? Maybe the accusations that I and 100 more make are not baseless? Or are you the supreme fact around here? Your arguments are certainly half truths and straw men for sure.


"movie, not game" than XIII, and in fact calling XIII a movie is just a sign of either not having played the game or simple trolling.

There goes those accusations again trying to shift the argument. Where have I seen that good old one before? We aren't even talking about other games, so please stop trying to use other games to defend this one. The only games you can use to defend this one are FF games, as that is what I hold this game to. Nothing else.


You haven't played it, so you don't know what you're talking about.

You don't need to play a game to know if you like it. You do not need to play a game to know if you will hate it. You don't need to play a game to know what flaws it has. This is why we actually have review sites and youtube, or do you think people write reviews for their HP?? You might buy any crap without bothering to check it thoroughly before hand, or blindly suckle on Enix nipples, but I and a few others don't.

I will criticise this game as much as I like. As much as you congratulate it on this thread, I will place counter arguments and counter reviews. If you don't like that, then may I suggest you don't read my posts or this thread and instead learn how to accept differing reviews without resorting to accusations of trolling or whiny emotional outbursts trying to defend the undefendable.
---------------

Tell you what: Let us have a selection of quotes from people who played the game, since you feel my opinion is worthless having not played:

Edge: 5/10


this can barely be described as a roleplaying game. You won’t come across a single town worthy of the label, talk to shopkeepers or be swept into an intricate minigame. Your characters don’t even level up for the first few hours. It’s best to get the beginning out of the way: it’s a disaster of pacing that both bores and condescends to the player.


While the system is complex, it’s not too hard to get to grips with the basics, but you won’t have access to the full capabilities of your party until around 20 hours in. It introduces every element at a crawling pace, and seems to think the only way players learn is through repetition – you’ll get a new tactic and then have to barrel through a series of identical enemies that are defeated by spamming it.


When your party is finally operating at full capacity, there’s still more of the linear story to trudge through – and it is a trudge. The game’s producers have gone on record as saying that western audiences don’t understand this first section, but in fact we do: it’s just a bit rubbish. The first 25 hours of the game are one long corridor of palette-swapped enemies, fights that never quite find the right level of challenge, and cutscene after cutscene (after cutscene) leaving your joypad entirely idle.


Some people don’t like numbers, but try this little sum. If you submit 25 hours of your life to a misjudged series of linear battles and cutscenes, Square Enix lets you play FFXIII, and you’ll get 25 decent hours out of it.


FFXIII takes brave risks with the series’ foundations, but they ultimately create trembling fractures throughout the entire edifice, that robust battle system unable to support the weight of an entire world. Final Fantasy games are always an investment. This time, the returns are questionable.

Destructoid: 4/10


Story is crucial to any RPG, and let me tell you right off the bat that Final Fantasy XIII has perhaps the worst story of any main Final Fantasy game to date. Aside from being poorly delivered and only vaguely comprehensible, the characters have no personality or depth, the world is not immersive in the least, and the main villain's methods and motivations are so illogical and convoluted that it's impossible to take him seriously.


The game constantly gives off a sense that it's having way more fun with itself than the player, and that theme is continued in the brand new battle system. Battles ostensibly play themselves for you, mostly because Square Enix's new Paradigm System is so contrived and complicated that the player would be confused if he had to control it himself. Instead of manually inputting commands for all your characters, everybody -- including the player's character -- can automatically fight of their own free will.


Despite the fact that the game is playing itself, the player is still forced to pay attention the whole time. It'll be your job to make sure the party's HP stays up, and with enemies always busting out hugely devastating attacks, it's a full-time job. Also, if the main player character dies, it's game over. Naturally, this leads to all sorts of fun once enemies bring one-hit kills to the table,


Player choice is stripped to a bare minimum as well. Most of the time, players can't even choose their own battle party until the end of the game, and are constantly having to re-organize their Paradigms after the game decided to wipe all the customization from the slate.


just like the story and the gameplay, took a back seat to the graphics.Final Fantasy XIII is visuals, visuals, visuals, with nothing of substance to back up the pretty colors.


Final Fantasy XIII offers very little else other than eye candy. Ultimately, this latest addition to the Final Fantasy series is a pompous and masturbatory affair, created seemingly to promote the developer's ego first, and the player's enjoyment second.


is too busy licking its own arse to look up and notice that everybody around it has fallen asleep. Written with all the skill of a three-year-old and paced with the eagerness of a virgin in heat, Final Fantasy XIII isn't just bad by Final Fantasy standards, it's pretty damn poor for the genre itself.

It's the worst main chapter in the Final Fantasy series to date, and if this is the future of the franchise, that future is incredibly bleak indeed.

Teletext GameCentral: 6/10


But why Square Enix thought turning Final Fantasy into a linear, almost on-the-rails, beat 'em-up would be a good idea is a mystery we hope they don't end up regretting


The most serious problem for the game is that you've only got one form of interaction with the world: combat.


There's no world map, no real towns, shops are bland menus accessed at save points and you never actually talk to other characters, just overhear conversations from those nearby. If not for levelling up (using a system similar to Final Fantasy X) it could barely be called a role-player at all.


Worse still the dungeons maps are entirely linear - not just in the there's-only-one-way-to-go sense but in that many are just straight corridors.


The game automates so much for you (including the other two characters) that for the first two hours you can play through the whole thing simply by continually mashing the 'X' button.


What's especially irritating is that 25 hours in a relatively open world environment is finally introduced, apparently meant as a metaphor for the game's other less controlling society.

Only here do you get a glimpse at the game most fans were expecting, but it's much too little far too late.


I could go on with professional reviewers, see here > Final Fantasy XIII (ps3) reviews at Metacritic.com (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/finalfantasy13)


Here are some user comments:


You do nothing but press the X button for the first ten hours. After that a reasonably designed combat system is slowly introduced to you like you're some kind of retard who's never played a game before


Hitting X over and over and maybe the left bumper once and a while is hardly groundbreaking. and I wouldn't mind grinding if I had other stuff in the game to do! This is a disaster of a Final Fantasy!


Why this game took so long to create i don't know. Im actually playing it as a 'video game' and hoping as a die hard fan it will give me the FF satisfaction i crave. I haven't got to the 3rd disk yet but thats precisely my point, i don't care if i finish it or not this time around.



firethief98
4/10
Music, Graphics, Giant monsters, a varied cast. But where is the game?

infact, instead of telling me that my opinion doesn't count or it is all a horrible lie

Final Fantasy XIII User Reviews for PlayStation 3 - GameSpot (http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/finalfantasy13/players.html?tag=scoresummary;user-score)

have a good look through the ones there and notice that there seems to be far more criticism than other FF's got, especially from people who are established fanbase. Don't tell me that I am making it all up or unjustified.

Elpizo
04-03-2010, 01:44 AM
It's nice how, when I get you, you suddenly expand your points. First it's "XIII doesn't have this or that! It sucks!". Then I say it does, and you go "Yes, but it's not like how I want it! Whine whine whine!". What's next?

And here we go again with you saying I buy whatever SE throws at me just because I like XIII. Well, I say you hate everything SE does because you hate XIII. Happy now? If we're going to exagerate, might as well take that route, too. Two can play this game.

No, I will never stop using other games as examples. After all, you draw reviews, OTHERS' opinion, in as defence for YOUR opinion, so I can do the same with games. And have more base for it, too. You just want XIII to be a movie, and you don't give a damn if it is or not. While in fact it is nowhere near a movie, and there are games out there that are far more movie. It's a baseless, and utterly stupid argument to make, because it's not true. But you, just because you want to hate XIII and make damn sure everybody knows it and you can call everyone who does like it mindless fucks, keep using this argument.

I'm not emotional about the game in itself. I'm annoyed by YOU. Yes, you very, very personally, because you are throwing around baseless hate here, that basically comes down to "SE didn't make the game like how I wanted it and now I'm gonna rage about it and spread my hate! Raagh! You are all stupid for liking XIII!". Yeah, excuse me for having my own taste.

Watching it on youtube doesn't count. There, I said it, what are you going to do? If you only watch on youtube, of course it's going to be a movie. Surely you must have realized this? By only watching or reading reviews, you can not have a true grasp of the game and how it feels to play it, how involved in it you are or aren't. That you base your buy on reviews, that's your choice. But if you haven't played it, keep shut about how you don't like how it plays, because you haven't played it. You've only seen it played. And yes, if you can understand this or not, there is a big difference. It's like, if I were to watch somebody play Doom, would I get the same sense of scare, the nervousness of when the next monster is gonna attack? Nope, no way. Unlike when I play it myself.

Likewise, if you haven't played XIII, you can not say if not controlling all party members is indeed as bad as you seem to think. You haven't tested the system yourself. You're just blindly sucking up whatever reviewers throw at you intead of finding out yourself. Who is the blind following sheep here? You. At least I bothered to play and form my own opinion based on the game, not on somebody else his opinion.

The cap on the Crystarium is a moot point anyway, as in the first part, you won't reach the cap unless you grind and there is no need to grind. Later, in chapter 11, when grinding is required, you'll appreciate the cap, for reaching it means you're all set to move on. Of course, you, having not played the game, wouldn't know this.

Every FF has things about its plot that don't make sense unless you check a guide, so don't go pointing at how bad XIII is for this. Unless you can explain me where Necron comes from, or Ultimecia's background story. Or what exactly NeoExDeath is. Or how exactly the Emperor became the lord of hell. Or... See? Point invalid, moving on.

How is it dumbed down and less involved? I seem to remember in X having only 2 slots, and some stupid upgrading system one never used anyway. Again, you blame XIII for having something other FF's have had. And also, you need to explain to me how giving 5 pieces of the best equipment to a character is any more involving than upgrading equipment. Point invalid, moving on. I'm starting to notice a patern here. I'm not weedling out of a point, you just wanna hate XIII so much that whenever I make a valid point you call it "weedling out f it" or call it "it's dumbed down" to avoid giving a valid reason for your dislike.

I don't know about scan being a good thing, but you said you had no control at all. Which is ignorance showing because you haven't played it. I just proved you wrong. That you don't like how it works, is your problem, and I don't care. People can dislike a new system. You can't hate a system for not existing when it does, like you do, though. That's just stupid.

And now suddenly you're talking about replay? No no no boy, you said XIII had no gameplay. It was a movie, remember? Well, I proved that it was not, you don't like having one less reason to hate XIII so you draw something new in. I bet you're gonna draw something new in after this post, too, just so you can keep hating XIII instead of finding a game you like (and I find it funny how you ignored this point. Proof enough to me that you are just trolling, and hating for the sake of it).

I'm not trying to defend the makers, or do whatver. I'm saying YOU are wrong when you're ignorantly screaming XIII has no towns. Because it has. As for the rest, that you don't like the take on it, that's your opinion which you can have. SE tried something different, some like it, you don't. If all the rest of your hating had as much logic as this, I wouldn't have to type this.

Yeah, because FF I NPCs had SUCH sophisticated things to say. Please.

No, you miss the point. You screamed XIII had no exploring. It has. And now when I point this out, and you discover that you wrong, you dislike this, so you bring up a more elaborate point that actually has some base, namely: "it is different and I don't like it". Fine, don't like it. But don't scream it's not there. It's stupid. And even then, you can't really judge, you haven't played it.

Yes, sidequests are more battles. So? That wasn't the point, you screamed there were no sidequests at all. There are. You were wrong. That's all there is to it.

Regardless of how the minigames are, they ARE there and so your scream of "XIII has no minigames! It sucks!" is also invalid and wrong. That's all there is to it.

I do not defend this game with straw men and half thruts. It is you who is attacking it with lies. And when those lies are exposed, you suddenly return with a post that is more logical, but basically comes down to this: "SE made a game I don't like, and now I'm gonna hate and call everybody who likes it stupid mindless sheep! Yeah, go me!".

You screamed things weren't there, I said, having played the game and thus knowing it, they are there. What your opinion on those changes is or isn't, I don't give a rat's ass about that. What annoys me about you is ignorant claims of "XIII is a movie!" "XIII has no sidequests!" "XIII has no minigames!". So next time you go on your hate rampage, since you seem to find that so much more fun than talking about a game you do like, actually do it with arguments that make sense and aren't laughable. Like: "XIII has a type of sidequests I don't like!" or "XIII has minigames I don't like!". If you did that, I wouldn't give a damn.

That's nether emotional or whiny of me, or defending the undefendable. It's sheer annoyance at you flat out lying. And that's all. So start hating XIII with some real arguments whenever you type down your hate, or do something more productive with your time. You don't see me in the VI board screaming lies at VI because I hate it, now do you?

seiferalmasy2
04-03-2010, 02:07 AM
Having read 1 paragraph, you obviously didn't read my posts, the many from professional reviewers or the user reviews. So quite honestly, I am not reading the rest of your reply. I don't play this tired game anymore, whereby I make a point with Hyperbole and it is the hyperbole that is seized on and not the argument, or half truths, straw men come backs. I don't bother with it anymore....I simply state the reply and switch off. If you had something to actually say and your point accepted that there are flaws in this game (and tons of them) fair enough, but trying to convince me nothing is wrong with weak arguments and ignoring the comebacks means I just say nightty night.

Have a nice day :)


So many cutscenes are thrown in just to show off the landscapes, and FMVs are regularly thrown in just to be a glorified tech demo for the White Engine. XIII looks stunning, that much is true, but that's all it is. A looker. XIII is vapid, shallow, and intensely self-satisfied. All it cares about is displaying its peacock feathers and trying to distract us from the ludicrous plot with bright colors and audacious effects. Even the battle system is clearly putting graphics first, putting fast-paced visual acrobatics before substantial gameplay.

ANGRYWOLF
04-03-2010, 03:28 AM
Been there and done that....on gamefaqs arguing with people about FFXII back when it came out.
I have been through all that before.
First it was me, then others came on my side and we argued with the people who thought FFXII was the best FF ever made until it got so acrimonious and so brutal I quit gamefaqs altogether and left.

The people who love FFXIII don't care what reviewers say about it or that a lot of players don't like it.
They like it and that's all that matters.

The people who don't like FFXIII or who have what they believe are valid criticisms about the game won't listen to what the people who love it say either.

So all this arguing won't change anyone's mind one way or the other.What most likely will happen is that the mods will have to step in and close the thread and may end of banning the people who got into the worst of the arguments.

If you like the game fine.Keep it and play it.

If you don't like the game then don't bother playing it. Wait and see if Versus is more to your palate when it comes out.

That's my advice. You can do of course whatever you want.:)

Rase
04-03-2010, 04:05 AM
It's quite fun to read this back and forth, and far be it from me break in too much, but I have some questions for Elpizo.


Every FF has things about its plot that don't make sense unless you check a guide, so don't go pointing at how bad XIII is for this. Unless you can explain me where Necron comes from, or Ultimecia's background story. Or what exactly NeoExDeath is. Or how exactly the Emperor became the lord of hell. Or... See? Point invalid, moving on.


How is it dumbed down and less involved? I seem to remember in X having only 2 slots, and some stupid upgrading system one never used anyway. Again, you blame XIII for having something other FF's have had.
How do either of these invalidate his points? Just because previous games in the series had a feature or flaw does not take away the right to complain about it showing up in a more recent game. Maybe I missed a point you made, but it citing poor mechanics and storytelling from one game to say you can't complain when they pop up in another sounds ridiculous.

Elpizo
04-03-2010, 10:38 AM
Having read 1 paragraph, you obviously didn't read my posts, the many from professional reviewers or the user reviews. So quite honestly, I am not reading the rest of your reply. I don't play this tired game anymore, whereby I make a point with Hyperbole and it is the hyperbole that is seized on and not the argument, or half truths, straw men come backs. I don't bother with it anymore....I simply state the reply and switch off. If you had something to actually say and your point accepted that there are flaws in this game (and tons of them) fair enough, but trying to convince me nothing is wrong with weak arguments and ignoring the comebacks means I just say nightty night.

Have a nice day :)


So many cutscenes are thrown in just to show off the landscapes, and FMVs are regularly thrown in just to be a glorified tech demo for the White Engine. XIII looks stunning, that much is true, but that's all it is. A looker. XIII is vapid, shallow, and intensely self-satisfied. All it cares about is displaying its peacock feathers and trying to distract us from the ludicrous plot with bright colors and audacious effects. Even the battle system is clearly putting graphics first, putting fast-paced visual acrobatics before substantial gameplay.
What a nice way to avoid admitting you were beaten. :) Fact is though, my boy, that I did read your post. I never said "nothing was wrong" with XIII. You simply say that in an attempt to make what I said seem void, because you can't come up with a good defence, nor can you deny that you're a liar.

All I did was call YOU, yes YOU, a liar with your screams of "XIII has no minigames!" "XIII is a movie!" "XIII doesn't have towns!". Had you actually bothered to read instead of trying to act smart, you would know this.

You accuse me of "ignoring comebacks" and all that stuff when you are no hair better. You know what that is called? Hypocrisy. A liar and a hypocrite, you're becoming more less likeable with the minute.

Fact is, this is what you do:
Step 1: Scream "XIII has NO towns! NO NPCS! NO Minigames! NO Qidequests!" I come in and call you a liar, because this is not true. You are hating XIII based on lies, and this is the truth.

Step 2: You don't like somebody finding out what you are, so you bring in reviews and arguments that actually make sense (such as "I don't like the sidequests in XIII!", which is fine, that's your opinion.). Then, with this backing you up, you scream how I "did not read my post at all!" and am defending with void arguments, just so you can get satisfaction out of discrediting me.

I don't give a bloody damn about what you think about the sidequests, or the minigames, or the NPCs. Because that's an opinion and you can have it, be it logical or not. I don't give a smurfing smurf that you are a blind sheep licking reviewers' heels. I don't even care you're disrespectful to everybody who does like the game, saying that whoever doesn't share your likes and views is a mindless "SE sheep", because why should I care about what a hypocrite thinks of me?

What I DO care about is that you scream PURE LIES during your hate such as "XIII has NO towns!" or "XIII has NO sidequests", and expect me to take those points serious, when I have played the game and know it is not true. If you wouldn't scream these laughable lies in the first place, I wouldn't even be talking to you, or care about you at all.

Can your brain grasp this, or is it too filled with XIII hate and spite of me to do so?

That said, I'm done. You're a liar and a hater who hates for the heck of it, and I'll leave it at that.

PS: I like how you only cited bad reviews. Because yes, that's so believable. You'e quite the mindless sheep, licking the reviewers' nipples and having no opinion of your own. See what I did here? :roll2

Wolf Kanno
04-03-2010, 05:48 PM
Been there and done that....on gamefaqs arguing with people about FFXII back when it came out.
I have been through all that before.
First it was me, then others came on my side and we argued with the people who thought FFXII was the best FF ever made until it got so acrimonious and so brutal I quit gamefaqs altogether and left.

The people who love FFXIII don't care what reviewers say about it or that a lot of players don't like it.
They like it and that's all that matters.

The people who don't like FFXIII or who have what they believe are valid criticisms about the game won't listen to what the people who love it say either.

So all this arguing won't change anyone's mind one way or the other.What most likely will happen is that the mods will have to step in and close the thread and may end of banning the people who got into the worst of the arguments.

If you like the game fine.Keep it and play it.

If you don't like the game then don't bother playing it. Wait and see if Versus is more to your palate when it comes out.

That's my advice. You can do of course whatever you want.:)

This man speaks the truth and has seen the future! *insert cheezy 50's style sci-fi terror music*

With that said... Yeah, you people need to either agree to disagree and move on with your lives or just walk away. I don't mind a good argument about the pros and cons of the game but when snide remarks and personal attacks are thrown in their it starts to become less than a debate and everyone loses their credibility. cause now your just attacking each other.

Consider this your warning

Elpizo
04-03-2010, 06:01 PM
I'm not even debating about the game, it's pros and cons or whatever. I'm saying he's lying when he screams "XIII has NO towns! It sucks!" "XIII is a movie, it sucks!" "XIII has no minigames, it sucks!" and that he needs to stop that. That's all there is to it. Because it has towns, it is not a movie and it has minigames. End of story. Whatever his opinion on those towns, non-movieness or minigames is, I don't give a flying smurf about.

This is not even a matter of opinion and "you can't be right or wrong". It's a matter of facts he's denying and lies he's spreading. If you consider this a personal attack, Wolf, it's not, it's the simple truth. You have played the game, and you know as well as I do that it's not a movie, has towns, has minigames and all the stuff haters say XIII doesn't have. Instead of scolding me for it, you should put an end to the lies.

Again, I don't care what he thinks of what the game has. I do care about the fact that he's spreading lies on the board when he's calling XIII a movie, a townless or minigameless RPG. But apparently I'm the only one who thinks hating a game based on lies is silly and not a good ground for opinion and makes a real debate impossible, so okay, let it be then.

*shrugs*

Rase
04-03-2010, 08:29 PM
If you consider this a personal attack, Wolf, it's not, it's the simple truth.
Just a hunch, was probably talking about crap like this.

You'e quite the mindless sheep, licking the reviewers' nipples and having no opinion of your own.
Also, calling someone a boy in a debate is obviously an attack on maturity and intelligence, and an attempt to discredit them by inplying they are childish. Just saying.


Again, I don't care what he thinks of what the game has. I do care about the fact that he's spreading lies on the board when he's calling XIII a movie, a townless or minigameless RPG. But apparently I'm the only one who thinks hating a game based on lies is silly and not a good ground for opinion and makes a real debate impossible, so okay, let it be then.
I think it's more your one of the few who are taking his hyperbole as fact when most see it's not how he means it. I highly doubt seifer literally thinks that FFXIII is something you can throw on your DVD player. It's more that because of the linearity of the game, coupled with the cutscenes, that he feels it's too much like a movie in presentation. Yes, other games and FF's are this way too, big deal. If he doesn't like it he doesn't like it. Same with minigames; he conceded that there are in fact minigames in FFXIII. However, because they are (apparently) few and not as engaging as say, FFVII's Golden Saucer, he says there are none. It's the same as saying Twilight has no good acting; I'm sure somewhere in that movie there's a good part or two, but compared to something Oscar-worthy it falls quite short. You seem to be taking this as a personal crusade against anyone badmouthing a game you like. Not that seifer is much better, as he's thrown in his share of personal jabs, but to someone outside this "debate" you certainly seem more riled up and emotional about this.

Elpizo
04-03-2010, 08:41 PM
Then he should say so. Because, believe it or not, there ARE people out there and even on this forum who would be confused by his choice of wording and take it literally. Me, I admit, being one of them. I'm not at all bothered by somebody not liking a game I do, it happens all the time, and I don't give a smurf. I'm bothered by his choice of wording, which makes it seem he's lying. How many times must I repeat this before it gets through?!

As for the insult, note that I copied his insult. He used the exact same wording first, and I turned it against him. Thank you for failing to notice this. And maybe I shouldn't call him boy, but whatever, that's the least of my worries.

Rase
04-03-2010, 11:26 PM
Then he should say so. Because, believe it or not, there ARE people out there and even on this forum who would be confused by his choice of wording and take it literally.
Oh I believe it. Hard not to with how you've been carrying on. Doesn't mean that his choice of wording is wrong because some people don't get it. If I had to sit and think about everything I posted to make sure someone didn't misconstrue it and get butthurt I'd probably do it a lot less. Maybe you could try being more open-minded and see if your perception of what someone is saying is wrong before flying off the handle.

I'm bothered by his choice of wording, which makes it seem he's lying.
So it seems he's lying now; I thought he definitely was 100% a little while ago?


As for the insult, note that I copied his insult. He used the exact same wording first, and I turned it against him.
Just because being pedantic is fun:

You might buy any crap without bothering to check it thoroughly before hand, or blindly suckle on Enix nipples, but I and a few others don't.

You'e quite the mindless sheep, licking the reviewers' nipples and having no opinion of your own.
Anyone, to the actual point: you do realize "he did it first" is about the worst possible excuse for doing something? There's this thing called being the bigger man where you just ignore little snide comments because they are meaningless. Getting all pissy about them and returning the favor endears you to no one, particularly in a forum with mods who tend to just look at who's breaking the rules, whether you started it or not. Even in real life, who looks better: the guy who makes personal attacks, the guy who responds by making more, or the guy who responds by continuing the discussion? Something to remember.


Thank you for failing to notice this. And maybe I shouldn't call him boy, but whatever, that's the least of my worries.
No problem. Also, I don't care if it's your worry or not: you claimed no personal attacks, so I was showing how that was incorrect.

LowCaloriePie
04-04-2010, 12:13 AM
My reaction to this thread, "Lulz."

Elpizo
04-04-2010, 12:38 AM
Oh, he's still lying if he says XIII is a movie, that's for sure. Okay, since you too need 100% correct wording, I'll say it: it doesn't seem like he's lying, he IS lying. Happy?

And I don't give a damn if "he did it first" is a bad excuse. I'm not at all for the "turn the other cheek" pacifist smurf. So keep your speeches to yourself, I'm not at all interested. Fact is that "you shouldn't react" is a crap argument anyway, since people shouldn't start in the first place if you don't want bad stuff to happen. So instead of waiting till reaction happens, the mods should weed out the insults of whoever wants to start it, instead of picking on me for "childishly continuing it".

I also did not claim no personal attacks. I claimed he started it, and I continued, and I don't mind if I did. If the mod's wanna ban me for it, then they should do so, whatever makes them happy that they could roll some muscle again.

And actually, if a choice of wording makes his words a lie, it is bad. Unless you too think XIII is a movie, and then I'll call you a liar, too, without a second thought. While your argument that you can't keep everything in mind might be true, there is a huge difference between, for example: "XIII has no minigames, it sucks!" or "I don't like the minigames XIII has, it sucks!". It's an entirely different meaning, and no amount of excuses of "he just worded it badly" is gonna change this. Please explain how I can approach "XIII has no minigames, it sucks!" and not conclude that he's saying "XIII has no minigames at all, it sucks!". You can be as open-minded as you want, it really won't change the meaning. And thus, he lies, simple as that.

It would be different if he said "The minigames in XIII suck". I won't attack him for that, I know that's only his opinion speaking. He doesn't have to clearly state "I think the minigames in XIII suck" for me to get that. But if you say "XIII has no minigames, it sucks!" and want me to get "I don't like the minigames XIII has" from that, then you're asking too much. You're basically asking me to read a as a b. That is stupid.

It's not at all being butthurt. Unless in a forum you like it when people use lies to back themselves up.

But sure, keep all attacking me for not taking it that he calls whoever likes the game a mindless SE sheep. Or for stating lies. Because Elpizo is the big bad evil here, the one with bad arguments, the one who insults, the one the mods should take action against, as he always is. It's never the other, oh no, Elpizo is rude and butthurt and close-minded. :roll2 Well, fine, so be it, if that's what I have to be in exchange for saying I'm not a mindless SE sheep and that I don't like lies being told about a game. It doesn't even matter to me if that game is XIII, or IX, or smurfing Milon's Secret Castle. If you say MSC is a FPS, I'll call you a liar. If you say XIII is a movie, I'll call you a liar. And if you don't like it, don't lie about it in the first place.

Done.

seiferalmasy2
04-04-2010, 01:57 AM
It is rather simple, you aren't capable of debating this game without allowing your love of it to cloud your judgement, and you aren't actually reading what my arguments (and 100 other peoples, I suppose they are lying too?) are saying.

This is why I have read only the 1st paragraphs of both your latest posts and have not bothered replying directly to anything. There is no lie here, so let me go through it and word it properly for you:

1. The game has around 10 hours of cutscenes where there is no interactivity and these regularly break up gameplay at regular intervals.

2. Movies are not 10 hours long so this is actually worse

3. Part of the team spent 2-3 days polishing single rocks that appear for less than 3 seconds which is a serious waste of resources and a clear indication that massive amounts of wasted money and effort went into the graphics.

4. The game has been dumbed down for mass market appeal and thus much of the game can be beaten by selecting scan and /or autobattle. Often just button mashing works.

5. There are 2 AI characters, and sometimes you are stuck with just your main character + 1 other. Cheap dynamics like casting death and doom on main character because if he dies, it is game over. But don't worry you can be straight back in the same battle again..

6. For much of the game you can't even choose your own party

7. Summons are near useless in this game and have perhaps the most stupid animations ever. It is all designed for eye candy

8. There are few minigames, much less than 7,8,9 and 10, and those that there are are poor. The devlopers defended this by acknowledging it was hard to do in HD.Please stop telling people this issue doesn't exist when the developers agree that it does.


9. Sidequests that there are are monster related, and since there are tons of battles already and nothing to break this up usually, it is same old crap.

10. There are few towns and the ones that there are are not as involving as previous. The devlopers also blamed this on HD. Please stop telling people this issue doesn't exist when the developers agree that it does.

11. There are no interactive NPC's and those NPC's there actually are are few in number compared to 7-10 and do not enhance the plot much.

12. Treasure is hardly hidden and can be more or less guessed at on the map

13. This game is the most linear entry for any final fantasy game ever made. It is literally 1 line for much of the game and you are forced forwards and are not allowed to backtrack or revisit much of the places (as you are allowed to in X) Please stop telling people this issue doesn't exist when the developers agree that it does.


14. The number of stats have been reduced/dumbed down and so have the actually equipment

15. Dropped items often succeed things you "bought", rendering them useless.

16. The levelling crystal is capped so that you cannot go past a certain progression and every character can be anything (unlike X where you were blocked off for most of the game and all characters devloped separately)

17. Interactivity is down to a bare minimum. Your job now is manager and not selecting how best to proceed with the battles (AI can do all that for you, isn't that wonderful?). No mana, no real intellectual stimulus. In fact this game, for the most part, is battle and cutscene.

18. It takes around 20 hours for the game to finally open up and allow you the same freedom most other FF's gave you ina short period of time.

19. This game has diveged so much from what an RPG (mana, towns, NPC, stats, and all the rest) is that it no longer qualifies as such.

20. Ones I have forgotten. Yeah there will be some but since I have had enough of repeating myself I can't be bothered checking. I think I have made my point.

Things I do not know are true but are regularly cited:

1. The story is a mess, a contradiction
2. The story is cliche driven and overly melodramatic
3. The characters on the whole are annoying, hope being singled out as worst offender. Sazh being singled out as the best character.
4. The dialogue is childish and poorly written

------------

and again my review:

http://forums.eyesonff.com/final-fantasy-xiii/130485-hate-thread-2.html

and a full user review:

GZay2Stay's reader review of Final Fantasy XIII for PlayStation 3 (http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/finalfantasy13/player_review.html?id=709755&tag=player-reviews;continue;7)

Flying Arrow
04-04-2010, 02:55 AM
seifer:

I remember reading a post in which you claimed to have not played XIII. Have you played it at some point between that post and now? I'm genuinely asking.

seiferalmasy2
04-04-2010, 03:10 AM
No but I have read a lot more reviews and watched on youtube a lot more. My ps3 was sold as a result of FF13 and MGS4.

Raistlin
04-04-2010, 03:59 AM
Wait, wait, all this arguing about a game you admit you haven't even played? I don't see how you can expect anyone to take you seriously.

Wolf Kanno
04-04-2010, 04:11 AM
Since communications have obviously broken down, I see no point in keeping this thread going cause its obvious its going to get worse before it gets better.

ANGRWOLF's prophecy has come full circle, REPENT FOR THE TIME IS NIGH!!!! :zombie: