The End of the World!

[Rad Bromance]

Do you think the world will end in our lifetime?

[Peegee]

I hope so.

[Breine]

No :pinkelephant:

[Raistlin]

No, but reading about it can be interesting (http://www.amazon.com/Death-Skies-These-Ways-World/dp/0670019976).

[Madame Adequate]

Yes.

But that's because I'm convinced I'll live for a lot longer than a mere 5 billion years.

[AntRid]

Not if we send along a bunch of guys who like to drill stuff to blow whatever it is up with a nuke.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Definitely not, the world will end long after humans have.

[Renmiri]

There are so many ways for the world to end in the next 50 years that I stopped getting worked up about it. If it happens it happens no sense getting worried about it

[Rodarian]

The 'modern' humanoid has lived roughly around 10,000 yrs or so....

If the dinosaurs lived millions and billions of years...Why can't we :P

[G13]

If the dinosaurs lived millions and billions of years...Why can't we :P

Because dinosaurs didn't have nukes, didn't hate, and weren't violent for the hell of it.

I don't think the end of the world will happen in our lifetime, but it's possible the end of humanity could.

[Rodarian]

If the dinosaurs lived millions and billions of years...Why can't we :P

Because dinosaurs didn't have nukes, didn't hate, and weren't violent for the hell of it.

I don't think the end of the world will happen in our lifetime, but it's possible the end of humanity could.

Maybe the dinosaur's were actually intelligent and lived in world peace!

[Faris]

Since I can't predict the future, I won't say yes or no to this. All I can say is that I hope it doesn't. :p



Maybe the dinosaur's were actually intelligent and lived in world peace!

http://www.hotmoviesale.com/dvds/14991/1/Dinotopia.jpg

[Vermachtnis]

Nah, unless when do something to make the sun go all supa nova on us it probably won't happen. And then there's the end of the universe, when the universe simply gets so huge it's becomes cold or something.

[smittenkitten]

Well apparently in about a few billions of years from now the Adromeda Galaxy well collide with our galaxy the Milky way. So if we actually survive till them which I doubt I'm sure some plague will kill us all and we turn into zombies, the earth wil either be torn apart of be shot into space or something like that. ^^ The Big Blast! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda-Milky_Way_collision)

[rubah]

nah

[BardTard]

I don't believe or disbelieve. Sure, it's a possibility but I'm not going to act like either situation is carved into stone. It might, it might not happen. I wouldn't be opposed to it happening, but I hope it doesn't happen before I do a few very important things with my life.

[Fujiko]

It might, but only God knows. If He chooses to, it will.

[Cuchulainn]

Ok take a nap.THEN FIRE ZE MISSILES!

[rubah]

Alaska can come too.

[BarelySeeAtAll]

..The first thing I thought about was 2010..does that make me a bad person?

Nooooo it won't end at all XD because we won't know about it..unless we're reborn..O_O

[Evastio]

I'm hoping not.

...though I doubt hope alone would prolong the world's end.


World's End: Aaahhh!!! You're overwhelming me with your power of hope!!! I must retreat for now. But make no mistake, earth and all its inhabitants!! One day I will come and destroy you completely!!! Bwa ha ha ha!!!

[Rad Bromance]

The Big Blast! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda-Milky_Way_collision)

By the time that the two galaxies collide, the surface of the Earth will have already become far too hot for liquid water to exist, ending all terrestrial life, which is currently estimated to occur in about 1 billion years due to gradually increasing warmth of the Sun.

Bummer. :(

[NorthernChaosGod]

The 'modern' humanoid has lived roughly around 10,000 yrs or so....

If the dinosaurs lived millions and billions of years...Why can't we :P

Because life on Earth won't be sustainable for that long.

[Mercen-X]

There are very few situations the world could end up in that can actually be considered world-ending or even world-changing. Many of such events are categorized as such by media to get more attention.

The "world" is coming to a close though. Maybe by my hundredth birthday, the world'll be changed either horrifically or for the better. However, contrary to the Mayans, bless their well-meaning hearts, I do not believe the Earth itself will ever be destroyed either on the surface or as a whole. I also do not believe in supernovas or black hole anomalies. These are mostly theories and unexplained phenomena which we can't truly figure without the help of warpdrive for our space travel. Looking through a telescope no matter how powerful is not proof that black holes exist or that supernovas occur. You might as well continue to believe that the Earth is a flat plane and that the universe is only 50000km in diameter. :cool:
The 'modern' humanoid has lived roughly around 10,000 yrs or so....

If the dinosaurs lived millions and billions of years, why can't we?Error! Closer to about 6000 years so far. Dinosaurs died out during Noah's flood. They didn't live millions of years. But the day will arrive when billion-year life is possible.

[Rad Bromance]

Error! Closer to about 6000 years so far. Dinosaurs died out during Noah's flood. They didn't live millions of years. But the day will arrive when billion-year life is possible.
That's not so much an "error" as it is a differnet believe than your own, if we're going to use the Bible in this discussion.

[Jess]

I don't believe and I don't disbelieve.

I'll enjoy my life as much as I can and make the most of what I have. If the world ends, it ends - there's nothing I can do about it. We're all gonna die one day anyway. :jess:

[Goldenboko]

If the dinosaurs lived millions and billions of years...Why can't we :P

Because dinosaurs didn't have nukes, didn't hate, and weren't violent for the hell of it.

But they did eat each other. :monster:

Humanity won't end. Even if Nukes do rain down, then it'd just be Fallout 3 time. :)

[AntRid]

If you believe the movie 2012 then everyone will die by lots of CG.

[G13]

However, contrary to the Mayans, bless their well-meaning hearts, I do not believe the Earth itself will ever be destroyed either on the surface or as a whole.

I don't really agree with anything you said, but this stood out the most. Where on that calendar did it say the surface of the planet will be destroyed?




If the dinosaurs lived millions and billions of years...Why can't we :P

Because dinosaurs didn't have nukes, didn't hate, and weren't violent for the hell of it.

But they did eat each other. :monster:

So when I eat steak I'm being violent?

Dinosaurs were animals. Eating each other is how they survived. I've never seen an animal attack someone or something beyond the need for food or protection.

[Raistlin]

Error! Closer to about 6000 years so far. Dinosaurs died out during Noah's flood. They didn't live millions of years. But the day will arrive when billion-year life is possible.

I don't know you well enough to tell if you're joking. Please tell me you are.

Anyway, regarding the current discussion, saying "dinosaurs lived for hundreds of millions of years" is a bit of a misnomer. Sure, the "dinosaur period" was something like 200 million years, but thousands of species dinosaurs evolved and became extinct during that period, well before the 65-million-year extinction. There is no "dinosaur" species, but a collection of countless thousands of species, none of which themselves lasted hundreds of millions of years.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Of course not. The planet's not going anywhere soon. However, we as a species certainly are.

[Renmiri]

There are a lot of things that could end life on earth, ours and of most mammals and birds, etc... Some things would "just" wipe out most of the human population: Violent solar flares. A comet impact. Global warming above 15 degrees per year. A nuclear winter. A giant volcano explosion (or chain of volcanos). A plague.... Earthquakes along a fault - think 2004 tsunami x 100. End of Oil, causing famine and economy collapse and wars.

But then again, no one on previous centuries had any guarantees of living all their life without a catastrophe. And very few cultures lasted long without wars and stagnation.

So in the end, why stress about it ? What will come will come when he / she / it / luck / fate wills it to come. Eat, live love and be merry till it comes. What else can you do ?

[Tofu Rocket]

No... but death by gamma ray burst would be interesting. Kinds like Sephi's Supernova... a visualization.
YouTube - Nasa pictures reveal deadly black hole (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-FQrlB0pXY&feature=related)
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk92/Kamelik/supernova.jpg

[G13]

Haven't you learned anything from comic books? We'd just turn into a civilization of Hulks.

[NorthernChaosGod]

That'd be amazing.

[RedPouch]

What a deadful and depressing topic...


There are a lot of things that could end life on earth, ours and of most mammals and birds, etc... Some things would "just" wipe out most of the human population: Violent solar flares. A comet impact. Global warming above 15 degrees per year. A nuclear winter. A giant volcano explosion (or chain of volcanos). A plague.... Earthquakes along a fault - think 2004 tsunami x 100. End of Oil, causing famine and economy collapse and wars.
This stuff is scary to think about for some of us though. For someone like me, thinking that this stuff is likely to happen in my lifetime makes me worry tremendously about the future and what will happen to me and those close to me during that time. I have a gnawing sensation that humanity will end through one of these catastrophes in the next hundred years or so. Technological evolution has opened many new doors, but has also caused many severe problems, some irreversible, others not likely to be reversed due to how reliant people have become on technology. Add this to how people in modern societies have become, and it seems even worse.

I don't have high hopes for our future...
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Tofu Rocket]

Haven't you learned anything from comic books? We'd just turn into a civilization of Hulks.

That would be a plus, I never could open a tightly closed jar of sickly sweet pickles. Although I doubt I would survive 524949614432 points worth of damage in order to get that ability on my enemy materia. You must have forgotten that Sephi uses l33t hax

[Renmiri]

There's nothing you can do but live your life the best you can. Make the people you love happy. Be kind to strangers. Live each day in a way you will remember fondly. Try to make the world a better place for the people around you. And for you.

If something bad happens, those fond happy memories will mean a lot to you and your loved ones. Will help you endure whatever it is that is coming.

If nothing bad happens, your happy memories will be part of a good life.

Win- win IMHO :)

[Psychotic]

I hope so.Yes! Look back six hundred or so years, with feudalism and castles and whatnot, and look at how advanced we are compared to those ignorant medieval swines. The people of 2600 will look at us with similar contempt, to say nothing of the people of 3600, or the people of 10600. Hell, imagine the people of 100600!

We must be the last and greatest generation of humans. Humanity simply cannot be allowed to progress because I refuse to be inferior to poncy future people in their shiny silver suits and hovercars. :colbert:

[Jiro]

I'm sure if we work hard enough then we can blow up the planet. I'm with Paul - if I can't have my goddamn ray guns then nobody can.

[Rye]

Nah, man. It's going to be fine.

[Psychotic]

Don't worry, Jiro, I have a plan, assuming the internet is around forever.

Hey, future people? I slept with your great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandmother. And she bellowed like a wildebeest. Whatcha gonna do about it? Build a time machine and come back here and kick our asses? Ha, yeah right, I think evolution has caused you to lose your balls. :smug:

Hopefully they will be so enraged that they'll come back to 2010 to murder us all, and will materialise any second to zap us all into oblivion. They will then cease to exist and we'll be victorious! And dead. But mostly victorious. I'm also counting on the fact that the knowledge of how to read spoiler tags will be lost to future generations.

[Rye]

Wildebeest~

[G13]

I'm sure if we work hard enough then we can blow up the planet.

I've got a few ideas for this. Anyone who's interested meet me in the breakroom. We have brownies and punch and some snickerdoodle's Sharon made.

[Cuchulainn]

Alaska can come too.

;) you know the score.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Don't worry, Jiro, I have a plan, assuming the internet is around forever.

Hey, future people? I slept with your great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandmother. And she bellowed like a wildebeest. Whatcha gonna do about it? Build a time machine and come back here and kick our asses? Ha, yeah right, I think evolution has caused you to lose your balls. :smug:

Hopefully they will be so enraged that they'll come back to 2010 to murder us all, and will materialise any second to zap us all into oblivion. They will then cease to exist and we'll be victorious! And dead. But mostly victorious. I'm also counting on the fact that the knowledge of how to read spoiler tags will be lost to future generations.
Don't forget their grandfathers too, the female membership can chip in there.

[qwertysaur]

All you have to do is divide by 0 a few times. Then set the sun on fire and print the internet. :p

[Renmiri]

Hey future people your great great... great grandfather was a pussy!

[G13]

All you have to do is divide by 0 a few times. Then set the sun on fire and print the internet. :p

My brain just slipped out of my ear and hopped away.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Hey future people your great great... great grandfather was a pussy!

And he plays ball like a girl.

[G13]

Hey future people your great great... great grandfather was a pussy!

And he plays ball like a girl.

And a pee drinking crap-face!

[LunarWeaver]

World, probly no, but humanity...Well, if it does, I think it will be gradual, not all at once. Certain places will go first. I fear if countries go Duke Nukem on each other, America will be one of the first to be attacked. For a long time I've considered living with Rantzien because nobody cares about Sweden. I don't think they've even invented the wheel over there yet. I feel confident Pontus and I will outlive all of you in the Three Little Pigs straw shack he inhabits. We can thumb wrestle, nominate and vote Ciddies for ourselves, and wonder if Michelle Yeoh really can fly until we become too bored and kill each other. Then all humanity will have officially ended. I see no holes in this theory.

[Rantz]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/729269/Images/rantz.gif

[Rodarian]

Its the end of the world when people will no longer remember on how to make pizza! :eek:

[Mercen-X]

Error! Closer to about 6000 years so far. Dinosaurs died out during Noah's flood. They didn't live millions of years. But the day will arrive when billion-year life is possible.
That's not so much an "error" as it is a different belief than your own, if we're going to use the Bible in this discussion.
Well, as long as you're admitting it's a belief. It amazes me how many people are willing to dismiss the Bible as fiction and yet fully accept evolution despite the absence of proof for it or against Biblical history. It's easy to claim that we can never prove evolution "Because we'll never see it in our lifetime. Evolution takes millions of years." But that's just a sad excuse.


However, contrary to the Mayans, bless their well-meaning hearts, I do not believe the Earth itself will ever be destroyed either on the surface or as a whole.
I don't really agree with anything you said, but this stood out the most. Where on that calendar did it say the surface of the planet will be destroyed?
I guess I jumped to that conclusion when they introduced the trailers to the "End of the World" 2012 movie which supposes that the Mayan calendar ended on the precise date the world would end. But, I guess I'm not really disagreeing with the Mayans (as I don't know what they intended by their calendar) but the author of the story on which the movie is based. I also do not believe all life on Earth will ever go extinct.


Error! Closer to about 6000 years so far. Dinosaurs died out during Noah's flood. They didn't live millions of years. But the day will arrive when billion-year life is possible.
I don't know you well enough to tell if you're joking. Please tell me you are.Although I'm missing the point to which you are referring, I'm going to say no.


Anyway, regarding the current discussion, saying "dinosaurs lived for hundreds of millions of years" is a bit of a misnomer. Sure, the "dinosaur period" was something like 200 million years, but thousands of species of dinosaurs evolved and became extinct during that period, well before the 65-million-year extinction. There is no "dinosaur" species, but a collection of countless thousands of species, none of which themselves lasted hundreds of millions of years.I agree. At least that there is no such thing as "Dinosaurs" which was just a placeholder for a fossil which was unidentified and that no species has lived for hundreds of millions of years. In fact, I believe the longest any species of animal has ever lived may be closer to about 500 years or less.

[rubah]

even all the species mentioned in the bible? doves, gazelles, mules, etc?

animals have been domesticated for far longer than 500 years. Are those not the same animals that have been bred from their parents for all this time, or did some evolution occur?

[G13]

However, contrary to the Mayans, bless their well-meaning hearts, I do not believe the Earth itself will ever be destroyed either on the surface or as a whole.
I don't really agree with anything you said, but this stood out the most. Where on that calendar did it say the surface of the planet will be destroyed?
I guess I jumped to that conclusion when they introduced the trailers to the "End of the World" 2012 movie which supposes that the Mayan calendar ended on the precise date the world would end. But, I guess I'm not really disagreeing with the Mayans (as I don't know what they intended by their calendar) but the author of the story on which the movie is based. I also do not believe all life on Earth will ever go extinct.

You should probably research it a little more before you act like you know what you're talking about. There are multiple theories but the movie is only based off of one. To be honest though, you should research a lot more than that.

[Raistlin]

Anyway, regarding the current discussion, saying "dinosaurs lived for hundreds of millions of years" is a bit of a misnomer. Sure, the "dinosaur period" was something like 200 million years, but thousands of species of dinosaurs evolved and became extinct during that period, well before the 65-million-year extinction. There is no "dinosaur" species, but a collection of countless thousands of species, none of which themselves lasted hundreds of millions of years.I agree. At least that there is no such thing as "Dinosaurs" which was just a placeholder for a fossil which was unidentified and that no species has lived for hundreds of millions of years. In fact, I believe the longest any species of animal has ever lived may be closer to about 500 years or less.

I didn't even know we had any legit YECs at EoFF. But anyway, a 6,000-year-old Earth flies in the face of everything we know about plate tectonics, geology, paleontology, ecology, biology, and physics. Not only is the universe 13 billion years old, the Earth 4.5 billion years old, and complex life approximately 600 million years old, but we have direct evidence that people existed well before 6,000 years ago, not only from fossils but anthropology.

Regardless, humans have lived quite a bit longer than 500 years. So have crocodiles, which have been around a helluva lot longer than we have. Most of the animals we see around us, too (wolves, bears, etc.).

[Renmiri]

According to the creationist fans God made you think that so that only true believers will know the truth Raistlin..

We pastafarians know the great noodly appendage just goes inside each scientist lab and alters the evidence, to make them think the earth is older than 25 years, which incidentally is my age :p

[Vermachtnis]

That episode of Friends where Phoebe doesn't believe in evolution was today and this whole conversation reminded me of it.

[Raistlin]

That episode of Friends where Phoebe doesn't believe in evolution was today and this whole conversation reminded me of it.

... I'm almost tempted to watch Friends just to see that episode. Almost.

[qwertysaur]

All you have to do is divide by 0 a few times. Then set the sun on fire and print the internet. :p

My brain just slipped out of my ear and hopped away.
:bigsmile:

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

However, contrary to the Mayans, bless their well-meaning hearts, I do not believe the Earth itself will ever be destroyed either on the surface or as a whole.
I don't really agree with anything you said, but this stood out the most. Where on that calendar did it say the surface of the planet will be destroyed?
I guess I jumped to that conclusion when they introduced the trailers to the "End of the World" 2012 movie which supposes that the Mayan calendar ended on the precise date the world would end. But, I guess I'm not really disagreeing with the Mayans (as I don't know what they intended by their calendar) but the author of the story on which the movie is based. I also do not believe all life on Earth will ever go extinct.

You should probably research it a little more before you act like you know what you're talking about. There are multiple theories but the movie is only based off of one. To be honest though, you should research a lot more than that.

Also, I was under the impression that while the Mayan calendar does end on the 21st of December, 2012, that the end of the calendar did not mark the end of the world, but the end of a period.

People have been waiting for the end of the world for millennia.

Early Christians thought the second coming was gonna be soon. Two thousand years later and still no returning of the Messiah.

According to Buddhist theories, we've been in mappo since the 8th century CE (roughly, since it depends who you are talking to). This is a period that marks the decline in the Dharma. Basically humans are so far from the Historical Buddha, Sakyamuni, that we can no longer practice Buddhism properly. Each school has various ways to understand this and interpret this. This period has been associated with natural disasters too, at least when it first started (c.f. Late Heian-Kamakura Period Buddhism).

Anyways, sooner or later life comes to an end. Unless we devise a means to bring forth our own undoing, which is not completely impossible, the natural course of events within the universe will lead to it.

[qwertysaur]

The Mayan calender is like when you throw out the 2009 calender and open the 2010 calendar. Nothing more.

[Jiro]

Their calendar maker was:
a) bored and gave up
b) sacrificed and too dead to continue
c) there is no c

OR maybe they were really smart and figured out their civilisation wouldn't live past 2012. Or whenever they actually happened to cease :(

[NorthernChaosGod]

Well, as long as you're admitting it's a belief. It amazes me how many people are willing to dismiss the Bible as fiction and yet fully accept evolution despite the absence of proof for it or against Biblical history. It's easy to claim that we can never prove evolution "Because we'll never see it in our lifetime. Evolution takes millions of years." But that's just a sad excuse.
wat

There's tons of evidencing pointing to the validity of the theory of evolution. Don't tell me you're one of the people who dismiss it purely on it being a theory and not a law or something to that effect? The evidence is overwhelming, while proof for creationism is pretty much nonexistent. That's why it's called faith, belief in something in the absence of proof.


I guess I jumped to that conclusion when they introduced the trailers to the "End of the World" 2012 movie which supposes that the Mayan calendar ended on the precise date the world would end. But, I guess I'm not really disagreeing with the Mayans (as I don't know what they intended by their calendar) but the author of the story on which the movie is based. I also do not believe all life on Earth will ever go extinct.
I'm fairly certain that the Mayans knew well enough that when a calender ends, you just start a new one.

Secondly, the earth is a planet and cannot go extinct. It can cease to allow life to function and/or be destroyed.


I agree. At least that there is no such thing as "Dinosaurs" which was just a placeholder for a fossil which was unidentified and that no species has lived for hundreds of millions of years. In fact, I believe the longest any species of animal has ever lived may be closer to about 500 years or less.
Of course there are such things as dinosaurs, it's like saying "mammal" or "reptile".

And you really think sharks are less than 500 years old as as species? Sharks have remained fairly untouched for ages, they're pretty much always been perfect killing machines.

[Rye]

To add on my earlier thoughts, I would say that it's fairly presumptuous to think that we of all generations could end the world.

[fire_of_avalon]

That episode of Friends where Phoebe doesn't believe in evolution was today and this whole conversation reminded me of it. ... I'm almost tempted to watch Friends just to see that episode. Almost.
fuck, Vermachtnis! you made Raist want to watch Friends thereby starting a hopeless chain of events that will end the world!

aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

i think humanity could use a plague. we`re too greedy and lazy and gluttonous to be of any use to this planet anymore and we need to be put in our place.

the one thought that comforts me above all other thoughts is that after i am dead, after we`re all dead and we`ve killed almost everything that`s left the children of the plants and animals we`ve destroyed will come back. Life goes on in some form or another. I am not the end of the evolutionary chain i am merely a link. so i don`t worry about the end or my end. i just worry about correcting what i and others have fucked up.

[Madame Adequate]

i think humanity could use a plague. we`re too greedy and lazy and gluttonous to be of any use to this planet anymore and we need to be put in our place.

You might deserve that. I didn't do anything.

[Rye]

I dunno... the continent of Africa is going under a plague of AIDs, and rather than that enlightening humanity, it just seems to be showing the worst of it, what with all of the sex trade and raping children as a magical cure and such. :/

[Meat Puppet]

Definitely not before I die, but there’s hope for you folk yet.

[fire_of_avalon]

i think humanity could use a plague. we`re too greedy and lazy and gluttonous to be of any use to this planet anymore and we need to be put in our place. You might deserve that. I didn't do anything.
tell me 5 ways you`re making the world a better place in that case. we`re all sinners, babe. and we should all atone for the pain, damage and destruction we cause. at least that`s what i think.

[Vermachtnis]

That episode of Friends where Phoebe doesn't believe in evolution was today and this whole conversation reminded me of it. ... I'm almost tempted to watch Friends just to see that episode. Almost.
smurf, Vermachtnis! you made Raist want to watch Friends thereby starting a hopeless chain of events that will end the world!

aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh


HOORAY! I've doomed us all!

[G13]

Also, I was under the impression that while the Mayan calendar does end on the 21st of December, 2012, that the end of the calendar did not mark the end of the world, but the end of a period.

I read somewhere the calendar was like a catalouge of pattern or a cycle the Sun made. When the calendar ends, the cycle starts over.

[Madame Adequate]

i think humanity could use a plague. we`re too greedy and lazy and gluttonous to be of any use to this planet anymore and we need to be put in our place. You might deserve that. I didn't do anything.
tell me 5 ways you`re making the world a better place in that case. we`re all sinners, babe. and we should all atone for the pain, damage and destruction we cause. at least that`s what i think.

Even if I agreed with the basic points, I fail to see how a pandemic that kills huge numbers of people would be a just thing. Or how my death would allow me to atone for anything. I would need to be alive to mend my ways, after all.

[rubah]

*takes foa off the Talk to the Aliens with Super Massive Weapons To Wipe Out the Human Race list*

[Mercen-X]

There's tons of evidencing pointing to the validity of the theory of evolution. Don't tell me you're one of the people who dismiss it purely on it being a theory and not a law or something to that effect? The evidence is overwhelming, while proof for creationism is pretty much nonexistent. That's why it's called faith, belief in something in the absence of proof. And what evidencing supports evolution praytell?



I also do not believe all life on Earth will ever go extinct.
Secondly, the earth is a planet and cannot go extinct. It can cease to allow life to function and/or be destroyed. You may want to re-read my post, :eep:



I agree. At least that there is no such thing as "Dinosaurs" which was just a placeholder for a fossil which was unidentified and that no species has lived for hundreds of millions of years. In fact, I believe the longest any species of animal has ever lived may be closer to about 500 years or less.
Of course there are such things as dinosaurs, it's like saying "mammal" or "reptile".

And you really think sharks are less than 500 years old as as species? Sharks have remained fairly untouched for ages, they're pretty much always been perfect killing machines.Dinosaurs are not a species or a reference to a type of species, the term is merely a reference to the skeleton's size. Mammal refers to a species whose females have mammary glands which allow them to provide milk for their young. Reptile refers to any animal that creeps.

Actually, when I said that part, I meant to refer to individual animals within a species. Still, no species has existed on our planet for even a million years. BTW, your statement kind of flies in the face of evolution. How can any one species already be perfected through evolution if anything else is supposedly still evolving?

[rubah]

Well, everything else keeps getting killed off by predators, and so the ones that aren't being killed off by predators might have different traits that support not getting killed off by predators, and slowly they become more adept at not getting killed.

If you're not getting killed off before you have chances to reproduce, your species is not going to change so much.


Evolution doesn't happen to happen. It's a trend that stems from the natural predator/prey responses.


Adobe releases Photoshop in the '80s. Arthouses pick it up and use it. People pirate it because they can't afford it, and need it to make money. Adobe puts in place anti-piracy safeguards. Pirates get around those. The safeguards become more sophisticated. So does the piracy. Each side is evolving mechanisms to get what they want to survive.

Eventually photoshop becomes the de facto image manipulation program. With this steady stream of infood, it's less imperative that adobe fights off every single pirate. The stream of a few people paying a lot for the product becomes more profitable than the same amount of people paying a little and everyone else still pirating. They have achieved some sort of "perfection" and don't have to change their anti-piracy tactics except the amount required by law for them to say 'We are making an effort to protect our product'.

That is the only reason I can imagine that they would put a full demo on-line for anyone to download that can be easily cracked to be the full program. For everything in their suite.


Similarly, sharks may get killed off by humans, but they have a steady gig of eating aquatic animals. Hardly anything eats sharks. Their skin is incredibly tough and impenetrable. They have so many damn razorsharp teeth. They can live in zones that other animals can hardly dream about going (including humans).

If the sharks lose their food source, and if Adobe lose their corporate stronghold, they will begin to change. The only difference is that the sharks will change by the accumulation of desirable traits and that adobe will change by inventing marketing tactics and product features.

[Raistlin]

Evolution doesn't happen to happen. It's a trend that stems from the natural predator/prey responses.

Predators are just one environmental pressure for natural selection. There are tons of others, from ecological (weather, temperature) to behavioral (mating traits, etc.). Mutations are actually the biggest driving force of genetic variation, but natural selection ensures that beneficial mutations spread.


And what evidencing supports evolution praytell?

You mean beyond everything we know about biology? Our own bodies, from anatomy to genetics? How does creationism explain the fact that the mitochondria in our cells has its own DNA and looks suspiciously like an ancient bacteria (which, according to a universally accepted theory, began a symbiotic relationship with our multi-cellular ancestors hundreds of millions of years ago). Since I take it you haven't actually cracked a textbook, talkorigins is an excellent resource (http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-mustread.html) to catch you up to speed.

[fire_of_avalon]

@MILFy i agree dead people can`t atone. i just don`t think most people care enough about the world around them to stop all the terrible things they do. i don`t really think everyone should die, i just think the world would be healthier if we did.

and i think you should die for all the Manilow. terriblem

[Fujiko]

For a long time I've considered living with Rantzien because nobody cares about Sweden. I don't think they've even invented the wheel over there yet. I feel confident Pontus and I will outlive all of you in the Three Little Pigs straw shack he inhabits.

Take that fake glitter of yours and stick it, why don't ya?! :mad2:

See now I know why we're not friends! Hmph! :nonono:

[Madame Adequate]

@MILFy i agree dead people can`t atone. i just don`t think most people care enough about the world around them to stop all the terrible things they do. i don`t really think everyone should die, i just think the world would be healthier if we did.

and i think you should die for all the Manilow. terriblem

Oh no you din't. That was just banter before but it is on now. :mad2:

[rubah]

wait wtf his eyes move

[Meat Puppet]

The Earth could be so polluted that humans can no longer comfortably survive on its surface, and the planet will still indifferently orbit around the sun nevertheless.

Earth really doesn’t care, it’s just us.

Hell, if <i>I</i> were Earth, I’d be fine being a wasteland. At least I would fit in with my peers.

[Rodarian]

Earth really doesn’t care, it’s just us.

Hell, if <i>I</i> were Earth, I’d be fine being a wasteland. At least I would fit in with my peers.

Somewhere out there, another 'green' planet is observing us and telling their populus that earth was once like us but decided to follow the pact instead of being a rebel.

[NorthernChaosGod]

i think humanity could use a plague. we`re too greedy and lazy and gluttonous to be of any use to this planet anymore and we need to be put in our place. You might deserve that. I didn't do anything.
tell me 5 ways you`re making the world a better place in that case. we`re all sinners, babe. and we should all atone for the pain, damage and destruction we cause. at least that`s what i think.
The world isn't black and white, you're not automatically a bad person by not making the world a better place. Most people will never impact the world in any significant way, that has no bearing on morality.


Dinosaurs are not a species or a reference to a type of species, the term is merely a reference to the skeleton's size.
So somehow this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camptosaurus) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcharodontosaurus) are both dinosaurs and the term refers to size? Explain how that makes any sense.

[Meat Puppet]

Earth really doesn’t care, it’s just us.

Hell, if <i>I</i> were Earth, I’d be fine being a wasteland. At least I would fit in with my peers.

Somewhere out there, another 'green' planet is observing us and telling their populus that earth was once like us but decided to follow the pact instead of being a rebel.
if this is true then there is likely a hefty number of failures and successes to make whatever path we choose redundant to this casual observer

[theundeadhero]

I'll never understand why people worry about or fear over things they can't control. For the most part we probably won't be the ones ending the world. It will just happen. Whether that happening be religious or circumstance we won't be able to stop it.

[Mercen-X]

Evolution doesn't happen to happen. It's a trend that stems from the natural predator/prey responses.

Predators are just one environmental pressure for natural selection. There are tons of others, from ecological (weather, temperature) to behavioral (mating traits, etc.). Mutations are actually the biggest driving force of genetic variation, but natural selection ensures that beneficial mutations spread. There's no such thing as a "beneficial mutation." Where have you ever seen one?


the mitochondria in our cells has its own DNA and looks suspiciously like an ancient bacteria (which, according to a universally accepted theory, began a symbiotic relationship with our multi-cellular ancestors hundreds of millions of years ago). Since I take it you haven't actually cracked a textbook, talkorigins is an excellent resource (http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-mustread.html) to catch you up to speed."Universally accepted theory." :bow:
And by textbook, I suppose you refer to those "scientific" texts which have been forged filled with altered pictures by scientifically defamed authors who have long since been heavily criticized for their criminal behavior by their peers. Don't ask me why these pictures are still used in textbooks, I guess they just wanted to give you something to look at.

You know it's funny or sad to think that everyone who now denies there is a God will eventually be turning to a False God to save them from poverty and death.


Dinosaurs are not a species or a reference to a type of species, the term is merely a reference to the skeleton's size.
So somehow this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camptosaurus) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcharodontosaurus) are both dinosaurs and the term refers to size? Explain how that makes any sense.Don't blame me. I'm not the one who coined the term. Blame the "genius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Owen)" that named the fossils.

[rubah]

scientifically defamed authors who have long since been heavily criticized for their criminal behavior by their peers.

Alan Turing was a criminal, too, but it doesn't lessen his additions to cryptography and computer science. John Milton wrote Paradise Lost as a criminal. Saul of Tarsus was a criminal. Jesus was a criminal. I don't get what you're saying here.

[Goldenboko]

Evolution doesn't happen to happen. It's a trend that stems from the natural predator/prey responses.

Predators are just one environmental pressure for natural selection. There are tons of others, from ecological (weather, temperature) to behavioral (mating traits, etc.). Mutations are actually the biggest driving force of genetic variation, but natural selection ensures that beneficial mutations spread. There's no such thing as a "beneficial mutation." Where have you ever seen one?

There's no such thing as a "God" where have you seen one? Please, don't use arguments that can be used against you.

[AntRid]

Anyone see that they recently moved the doomsday clock back a few minutes. We are saved!

[~*~Celes~*~]

I'll just live my life the best way that i can :D Of course I ponder the end of the world and all that but I don't let it bother me because even if the world were to end, what could I personally do to stop it? Probably nothing. Death is inevitable for me, so I'm going to live like i'm going to die someday :monster:

[Tavrobel]

I don't get what you're saying here.

What he's saying is that it'll shorten the war by several years and save millions of lives.


There's no such thing as a "God" where have you seen one?

In the homeless guy that's standing across the street from him, obviously.

[Raistlin]

There's no such thing as a "beneficial mutation." Where have you ever seen one?

So you're saying it's impossible for a genetic abnormality to result in, say, a different density or color of fur? Because those can be very beneficial depending on the environment. There is no such thing as "beneficial" in a vacuum; actual scientists understand the term to be beneficial in a given environment with specific environmental pressures. And yes, they do happen. A lot.


And by textbook, I suppose you refer to those "scientific" texts which have been forged filled with altered pictures by scientifically defamed authors who have long since been heavily criticized for their criminal behavior by their peers. Don't ask me why these pictures are still used in textbooks, I guess they just wanted to give you something to look at.

Uh... what?

By scientific texts I mean ones that are based on evidence and research, not the wishes of a specific religion. There are scientists who actually research genetics and ecology and fossils. Then there are those who feel threatened by a worldview that doesn't mesh well with predetermined religious beliefs that are held without question. Guess which ones accept the fact of evolution?

If evolution was as far off base as the creationists claim, then our entire understanding of human and earth science would be destroyed. Modern medicine (antibiotics) is based on genetic mutations and adaptability, as is the reason bacteria are becoming more and more resistant to them. Everything we know about human anatomy confirms evolution happened: how else do you explain our jaw that is too small for our mouths (often requiring wisdom teeth removal); our eyes which are made backwards resulting in a blind spot; our back which is made for a four-legged animal; the male vas deferens (tube that leads from the testicles to the penis) which loops up and around the urethra instead of going in a straight line (caused by testicles anciently being internal and then dropping); the vestigal appendix (analogous to a herbivore's caecum used to digest cellulose); why mitochondria has its own DNA (as I mentioned earlier)?

How about the fact that humans have 46 chromosomes and all other primates have 48? Now, according to evolutionary theory, this can have one and only one explanation: a fusion of primate chromosomes from a common ancestor. And guess what, our chromosome 2 looks just like other primates' chromosomes 12 and 13 (http://anthro.palomar.edu/primate/prim_8.htm), with the same genetic material and everything.

Actual science involves looking at the available evidence and explaining why it is so consistent with all other evidence. That's what scientists who study different facets of biology have done to explain the above, instead of just ignoring any and all evidence for fear of it contradicting a predetermined conclusion. There's so much information out there, if only people bothered to look.

[Rye]

After taking an entire anthropology class devoted to the evidence of human evolution from a common ape ancestor, run by a proud Christian man, which took so many facets of evidence into account (though we mostly looked at the physical evidence of change - things such as the pelvis expanding and shortening, the shift of the vertebral foramen to the center of the skull to allow bipedalism) and showed step by step, each being who gradually became more and more like the modern human, from Australopithecus afarensis, one of the earliest examples of bipedal hominins, heavily ape but recognizable as a common ancestor, to homo erectus to homo heidelberganensis (one of the first hominins to show a real propensity for stone tool use and crafting), to the neandertals (contrary to popular belief, they aren't our direct ancestors, but were a separate branch from the modern human that died off when our ancestors either killed them directly or indirectly through competition) and then to what we are to and so on and so forth... the idea of evidence being faked or wrong is just a foreign concept to me. It's been proven and then some.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Don't blame me. I'm not the one who coined the term. Blame the "genius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Owen)" that named the fossils.
Considering modern definition of the term has absolutely no reference towards size, I'm going to blame you for being woefully ignorant.


Universally accepted theory." :bow:
And by textbook, I suppose you refer to those "scientific" texts which have been forged filled with altered pictures by scientifically defamed authors who have long since been heavily criticized for their criminal behavior by their peers. Don't ask me why these pictures are still used in textbooks, I guess they just wanted to give you something to look at.
Lol, name one specific case that would actually throw the teachings into question.

You know it's funny or sad to think that everyone who now denies there is a God will eventually be turning to a False God to save them from poverty and death.
Ignorant Bible Fanatic is ignorant.

[Mercen-X]

"Scientific" proof of God's existence does not exist. No evidence presented thus far of God's existence has or ever will be accepted by the "scientific" community. My request for proof of a beneficial mutation should not be considered unreasonable. Evolutionists claim their beliefs are stemmed from scientific research. Thus finding an example of a beneficial mutation, if, in fact, it does exist, should be easy.
However, I am not obligated to prove God's existence for my own belief because I acknowledge my belief as being "faith-based". If you want to argue we evolved from bacteria without offering uncompromised proof, then you are arguing on faith thus making Evolutionism a religion.
I am perfectly capable of accepting your beliefs as long as you acknowledge it as such. I will not try to dissuade you from believing as you do. But do not try to convince me that science has proven evolution. No evidence garnered through science has ever proven evolution.
At least when I argue for the sake of God, I am trying to benefit you, hoping you will see the light and your immortal soul be saved. When you try to convince me we evolved from germs, you're not benefitting me in the least. Look at the human race today. Children are getting dumber. Blame it on ADD, ADHD, mental retardation, whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your evolution has not been of benefit.

Don't get me wrong, however, I do believe in evolution. The mind evolves by each generation that exists to teach the next. So what are we teaching our children? Are we teaching them the domino effect that has followed behind the "Big Bang?"
But the "Big Bang" did not cause itself, because a "Big Bang" cannot form from nothing. Either the universe always was (which is impossible because everything needs a beginning otherwise Evolutionists' argument that God needs a beginning wouldn't work) or the Big Bang was caused by sentience. That sentience naturally being God.
We did not evolve and God did not use evolution to create us. If God used evolution to make us, it makes him either retarded or sadistic, that we would have to survive generation after generation on luck until our bodies became perfect. God got it right the first time.
Those who believe we evolved from less and will evolve into something greater (at least your belief makes sense), no. We are as we've always been.
Those who believe we evolved from less and have reached perfection already, that's just a sad argument. If evolution has led to where we are now and this is perfection, evolution sucks.

"When you eliminate the impossible, what remains, however improbable must be the truth." --- Spock... God loves a Vulcan man.

People who require sight to see can be deceived as has been proven throughout the millennia.

Did You Know..?
Did you know it is human instinct to kill and fornicate for the purpose of animalistic domination? Just as it is with any other animal. Our supposed evolution has not altered this at all. So what then leads many of us today to believe that murder and adultery are wrong or should be illegal? Whether you choose to acknowledge it or admit to it, these truths are the word of God. If not for an eternal consequence there would be no reason to avoid killing each other and living life in one worldwide abysmal blood-orgy.

[Raistlin]

My request for proof of a beneficial mutation should not be considered unreasonable. Evolutionists claim their beliefs are stemmed from scientific research. Thus finding an example of a beneficial mutation, if, in fact, it does exist, should be easy.

It is easy: pretty much everything that makes us up. Here is a list (http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoMutations.html) of more recent examples observed.


If you want to argue we evolved from bacteria without offering uncompromised proof, then you are arguing on faith thus making Evolutionism a religion.

Your refusal to learn about and understand all of the evidence does not negate the existence of such evidence. The framework of evolutionary theory is universally accepted among the academic community. The only hold-outs are groups of extremist and/or ignorant religious people with an agenda.


At least when I argue for the sake of God, I am trying to benefit you, hoping you will see the light and your immortal soul be saved. When you try to convince me we evolved from germs, you're not benefitting me in the least. Look at the human race today. Children are getting dumber. Blame it on ADD, ADHD, mental retardation, whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your evolution has not been of benefit.

... huh? Are you saying that teaching evolution caused those things or that evolution shouldn't be taught because it's not a happy message? Either one is an absurd notion. Truth is not based on wishes or whims, or on how the public knowledge of that truth affects people. Truth simply is. Reality exists independent of whatever you want it to be.


But the "Big Bang" did not cause itself, because a "Big Bang" cannot form from nothing. Either the universe always was (which is impossible because everything needs a beginning otherwise Evolutionists' argument that God needs a beginning wouldn't work) or the Big Bang was caused by sentience. That sentience naturally being God.

1. Evolutionary theory is not creation origin concepts.

2. Your logic is simply begging the question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question). You have an unfounded assumption in 1) a sentient creator, and 2) that creator is your "God." And first off, the "god needs a beginning" argument is intended to show the argument from ignorance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance) fallacy creationists employ to say "well the universe must have had a beginning because I can't comprehend otherwise!" If "everything must have a beginning" (another unfounded assumption), then any sentient creator must have a beginning. But the premise is unfounded to begin with.

You also did not respond to any of the examples I gave in my previous post about how human anatomy, physiology, and genetics all fit into an evolutionary framework that is not explained by creationism.

[qwertysaur]

I'll give you a beneficial mutation example. Your thumbs.

A flower that's yellow and stands out more than other white flowers is another one.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Long fallacious argument

If ignorance really is bliss, you must be in heaven.

[Rye]

Let's not call other members ignorant, NorthernChaosGod. Everyone has the right to their opinion without being insulted over it.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that doing the equivalent of a child sticking their fingers in theirs ears and yelling in the face of science makes you ignorant on the subject. I didn't call him stupid. Is it an insult if it's true?

Seriously, cut it out. If you don't like what he is saying, then put him on your ignore list or sort it out outside of the forum. This insulting in this thread is going to end now, either way - this forum is supposed to be for friendly discussion. Don't make me tell you this again.

This thread has been too far derailed; I'm closing it.

If anyone still wants to discuss evolution (in a mature manner), I suggest making a new thread in EoEo about it. ~ Rye