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View Full Version : Mafia XIV Game Thread - GAME OVER - Cult Win! Skulls for the Skull Throne!



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[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 08:17 PM
Cool role actually, Ifrit.


Leviathan;2786038']Ramuh, why is it you say that the ones who have claimed Vanilla are suspicious?

Carbuncle, why is it that just because Phoenix claimed Vanilla, you automatically say he's suspicious?

Siren, who do you think is suspicious period?

Ifrit, let's go back to my tent and I'll show you 50 Pushups :love: Alternatively, who do you think is the best candidate for cult leader thus far?

Because the Cult will know they can recruit them, so I think to would be beneficial to look back at those who claimed vanilla before today because they could be be a recently recruited cult.

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 08:19 PM
*nods* makes sense.

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 08:21 PM
Soldiers who are vanillas could well have been compromised. But to me, they should not be our target yet. I'm reading through the thread, trying to find any shots fired that strike me as suspicious.

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 08:22 PM
Ifrit has a point. We really should be looking for the leader, as his (or her) death means no more recruiting which means we have a better chance of winning.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 08:28 PM
Ifrit;2786077']
Carbuncle;2786025']
Anima was also Jester purple. :pIn the last game General qwerty hosted:
Jester
Cult

Ah, depressed townie was the second color, but we still don't know what the color of Cult is because we might not have killed a Cult member yet unless your theory on Anima is true.

Can't be the Cult Leader

Carbuncle
Ifrit
Titan
Shiva

That leaves

Leviathan
Diablos
Odin
Siren
Phoenix
Valefor
Ramuh

Did I miss anyone?

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 08:29 PM
Dead people can't be cult leaders. :colbert:

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-02-2010, 08:56 PM
Phoenix;2785908']
Titan;2785467']Guys, I just want to say that Siren is the one I investigated last night, and she came up as Sane. She's not Cult.
I am almost certain you're a Cultist, Titan. However, I'm not looking for any ordinary Cultist. I'm looking for the leader, and you revealed your "investigation" to save Siren. I think Siren is the Cult Leader and I think you need to die.

Or maybe he's town trying to save either townie. Besides, it wasn't exactly that got me of.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 09:11 PM
Siren;2786113']
Phoenix;2785908']
Titan;2785467']Guys, I just want to say that Siren is the one I investigated last night, and she came up as Sane. She's not Cult.
I am almost certain you're a Cultist, Titan. However, I'm not looking for any ordinary Cultist. I'm looking for the leader, and you revealed your "investigation" to save Siren. I think Siren is the Cult Leader and I think you need to die.

Or maybe he's town trying to save either townie. Besides, it wasn't exactly that got me of.
?

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 09:14 PM
Good to know I wasn't the only confused one.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-02-2010, 09:35 PM
Could you tell me which bit you're confused about?

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 09:38 PM
Your wording. "Besides, it wasn't exactly that got me of."

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-02-2010, 09:40 PM
I was saying that I'm pretty sure Titan calling me sane wasn't the only reason I didn't get lynched.

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 09:43 PM
I'm still really entertaining the possibility that Titan is an insane psychologist. Depressive Townie, Melodramatic Townie, Hag - they all sound like they could be insane, but it would be a silly role if it registered all of them as insane wouldn't it? Then why would the dud come up insane? what makes him crazier than the rest of us? Plus seeing as some of us are suspicious of him being cult anyway, I think maybe lynching him would be the best course of action.

[M] Gaius
02-02-2010, 09:45 PM
Well now I pretty much know for a fact that Titan is either lying or is insane himself, because I am sure I am not insane. I can't see how the 'Hag' would be insane, and I was never recruited to any cult. If Titan is insane then that means Siren is too, and he should be lynched. However I think it more plausible to believe that Titan is in fact cult and has been working against us for some time.

How many cult has he actually helped us find? Why did he investigate Siren instead of someone more plausible like Bahamut? My guess is that he investigated Siren to gain a townie's trust, or to clear one of his own cult buddies. Or, perhaps Siren was with us yesterday and was turned last night. If he ended up getting lynched (which she almost did) it would have helped 'clear' Titan and allow him to further send us to our doom.

Just ask yourself who is most likely to be recruited. I think it's obvious. He has done nothing to help us and in fact he has only hurt us, ever since Cactuar on day one!

<b>##Vote: Titan</b>

[M] Gaius
02-02-2010, 09:47 PM
I also want to point out, that if I am lynched Titan has an out. I will come up as 'Hag' and he can just argue that it is another role that would come up as insane. Like 'Dud'. I should not have claimed then but I was up against it and wanted to make sure you guys knew the truth.

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 09:50 PM
FORWARD MARCH! I've been scouting out the thread and I have two theories.

The Siren Theory

Lt. Siren has been playing it low key for the entire war. Hasn't even voted except once, for Cpl. Valefor - but this is crucial - only after the tie had already been broken so her vote would not count. Rather convienient.

0-Yesterday-Hundred hours, Gunnery Sergeant Ramuh was all over Lt. Siren's :bou::bou::bou::bou:. Was totally obsessed and even came up with a trap to try to get her. Yet today he has made absolutely no mention of her and instead goes after Cpl. Valefor. I think that if Lt. Siren is the leader, poor Gunny Ramuh was last night's recruit.

It is as clear as a polished M16 to me that under this scenario, the cult want Cpl. Valefor lynched. Is he one of them? Possible. Titan has obviously been forced to sign up to the cult if Lt. Siren is the leader, and I suppose it would've come around the time of his false insane claim on Pvt. Doomtrain.

Theory 2: The Valefor-Odin Alliance

I strongly suspected Cpl. Valefor yesterday of being the cult leader. I have been trying to figure out who would be his squad mates if this was true. I think the most obvious of these would be Lance Cpl. Odin.

On Day 2, Lance Cpl. Odin and Cpl. Valefor clashed, with Lance Cpl. Odin putting a vote on Cpl. Valefor and the two had a little bit of a bicker. This completely stops on Day 3. Clearly, one of them decided to recruit his foe on Night 2. Instead, Odin goes after the power roles, myself and Colonel Carbuncle, coming out with some FUBAR theory about a Mafia Cop. We all know there is no Mafia, and it would make sense for a Cultist to try to find evidence that there is.

I would also like to draw attention to Odin being low key for Day 1 and 2, and Valefor doing the exact opposite, and then on Day 3, the roles were switched.

Which of the two is the enemy General? I'm not sure, sir! *salutes*

However, judging from the sheer speed at which so much infantry has massed against Valefor, while nobody has even mentioned Odin, it stands to reason that he could well be the lower-ranked grunt taking the hit for his Officer as his fellow soldiers conduct friendly fire (although I don't think everybody who voted for Valefor is cult. Hell, I did it yesterday!), and that would be why I am worried it might be Odin instead.

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 09:51 PM
Oh crap uhhhhh when I say "Odin" I mean "Lance Cpl Odin." :riiight:

And anybody who says differently gets latrine duty!

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 09:54 PM
##Vote: Siren

You haven't been helpful to the town at all. Perfect candidate for cult leader, if you ask me.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:04 PM
Ifrit;2786153']
On Day 2, Lance Cpl. Odin and Cpl. Valefor clashed, with Lance Cpl. Odin putting a vote on Cpl. Valefor and the two had a little bit of a bicker. This completely stops on Day 3. Clearly, one of them decided to recruit his foe on Night 2. Instead, Odin goes after the power roles, myself and Colonel Carbuncle, coming out with some FUBAR theory about a Mafia Cop. We all know there is no Mafia, and it would make sense for a Cultist to try to find evidence that there is.

Exactly. I suspected Odin for awhile now for things I have already brought up.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:05 PM
I think Odin may be the leader not Valefor.

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 10:07 PM
Interesting theory Ifrit. I hope you didn't spend too much time on it though, because it's wrong. :(

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 10:09 PM
What makes you say that, Ramuh?

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 10:09 PM
I think Odin may be the leader not Valefor. Have you seen something else that I missed? Lance Cpl. Odin is a slippery dude and hard to get a handle on.
Interesting theory Ifrit. I hope you didn't spend too much time on it though, because it's wrong. :(I have two theories, Gunnery Sergeant Ramuh! I only theorised at your conversion to the enemy camp in one of them. *salutes*

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:10 PM
Ramuh;2786164']Interesting theory Ifrit. I hope you didn't spend too much time on it though, because it's wrong. :(
How is it wrong?

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 10:10 PM
Although, Gunnery Sergeant Ramuh, I have to ask for your views on Lt. Siren and why you have stopped your battle with her.

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 10:11 PM
Oh right, i see where ramuh was mentioned, which is why he claims it's wrong.

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 10:15 PM
the whole game is made of claims. :spin:

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-02-2010, 10:16 PM
Ifrit;2786153']
The Siren Theory
Lt. Siren has been playing it low key for the entire war. Hasn't even voted except once, for Cpl. Valefor

I voted for the obtuse bird as well.


- but this is crucial - only after the tie had already been broken so her vote would not count. Rather convienient.

I was typing my vote up while the watery snake was breaking the tie.

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 10:17 PM
everyone has stolen my phrase :(

[M] Apollo
02-02-2010, 10:18 PM
If [M] Ifrit fails to stay in character throughout the day, he doesn't earn his random ability? Triva aside, time to re-ready the noose. :eep:

##VOTE: [M] Valefor

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 10:18 PM
Ten-hut! If you'd done it earlier, Lt. Siren, when I asked you to vote - for the good of the town, no less! - Cpl. Valefor would be KIA right now.

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 10:20 PM
For the greater good.

##Unvote: Valefor
##Vote: Titan

This will answer much more. Think ahead.

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 10:20 PM
Does nobody but Colonel Carbuncle have anything, anything at all, to say about Odin?

Because this is seriously making me feel ill at ease, soldiers.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-02-2010, 10:21 PM
I was having problems deciding between him and Bahamut. Sorry.

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 10:21 PM
Lance Cpl. Odin*

bahhhhh I can't remember all the ranks I assigned to you fine military men. :lol:

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:22 PM
Ramuh;2786171']the whole game is made of claims. :spin:
What do you claim yourself to be Ramuh?

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 10:23 PM
Some have to break the game to take the game. ;)

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:23 PM
What does Siren claim to be other obviously being Cult.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Ramuh goes on the fishy list.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-02-2010, 10:25 PM
Who is this Odin guy anyway?

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:26 PM
Bilge Rats
Odin
Siren
Ramuh
Phoenix
Leviathan
Diablos
Valefor

Take a look at each of them and ask yourselves which would could be the leader. Unless you are guilty then stfu.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-02-2010, 10:26 PM
Carbuncle;2786183']What does Siren claim to be other obviously being Cult.

Huh?

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:27 PM
Rydia, you need to update your first post by the way.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:28 PM
Siren;2786187']
Carbuncle;2786183']What does Siren claim to be other obviously being Cult.

Huh?
What is your claim?

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 10:30 PM
This day has had too many fishy lists and possibilities and not enough evidence.

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 10:33 PM
We can't help it that we're all players who are good at avoiding traps.

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 10:34 PM
I have two possibilities, Gunnery Sergeant Ramuh, with evidence to support each. I'm not sure which is right and I am looking for other people's opinions on them to help me in my decision, although I am well aware that some of those who seek to influence me are enemies. All you have said to one is that it is wrong. You have not said which is wrong, or why, nor what you think of the other.

I ought to have you court martialled :(

[M] Apollo
02-02-2010, 10:38 PM
Reading through [M] Odin's recent posts, he hasn't contributed much in terms of hunting down scum. He seemed pretty hung up yesterday about [M] Carbuncle, whose role we're fairly certain of. I'll have to go further back to make more paranoid deductions, but he's a good bet for Cult.

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 10:39 PM
You too, Captain Leviathan! It is obvious you suspect Lt. Siren so you agree with Theory 1, but what about Theory 2? Is that a possibility to you?

Come on, men! One soldier alone cannot need a war! FORWARD!

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 10:39 PM
by "need" I mean "win" and I have no idea where the fuck that came from. xD Over and out.

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 10:39 PM
In my book aptly titled Dealing With People You Can't Stand, we call people like Ramuh "The No Person."


Of all the difficult people, the behavior of negative people has the most insidious effect on others. Negativity undermines motivation, stifles development, and leads to depression and hopelessness in others.

See? He's trying to mentally break us :(

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 10:39 PM
Well for a start this town isn't getting anywhere until the 'confirmed' townies take a step down from lining up the non-confirmed town and deliberating which ones to pick off. Everybody on the 'fishy' list has no reason to speak because the target's on their heads only, but if we keep quiet we know Valefor will get lynched. I understand you have put facts to theories and that's pretty good, but this town is starting to develop authorities and every day you'll pick a new target and everybody else will stfu until they have to say something.

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 10:41 PM
Leviathan;2786198']In my book aptly titled Dealing With People You Can't Stand, we call people like Ramuh "The No Person."


Of all the difficult people, the behavior of negative people has the most insidious effect on others. Negativity undermines motivation, stifles development, and leads to depression and hopelessness in others.

See? He's trying to mentally break us :(

We are playing Mafia, hopelessness in others and depression is necessary. :spin:

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:41 PM
Things that don't make sense about Titan


His vote for Ramuh because he thought he was arrogant
His unvote for Ramuh and then vote for Catuar because she was being a jerk
Despite the fact that if he were the psychiatrist, he'd know that Cactuar was telling the truth and she could her in the game
Catuar saying he was a Psychologist
Having a serial killer and a psychiatrist yet him being able to do investigations on others
Doomtrain coming up as a Dude yet Titan said they were insane

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 10:43 PM
Ifrit, theory 2 is also possible. I find both of your theories to be equally possible. Howeverr, I have a slight bias against Siren due to the fact that she hasn't done hardly a thing to even pretend to help. Laying oh so very low is not helpful in the least and a very good reason for me to believe her to be Cult leader.

[M] Mom – Host
02-02-2010, 10:44 PM
Carbuncle;2786188']Rydia, you need to update your first post by the way.
<-- Is lazy.

Also you have about 5.5 hours until dusk if I'm not mistaken

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 10:44 PM
Carbuncle;2786203']

Doomtrain coming up as a Dude yet Titan said they were insane


Possible that Doomtrain simply had some gender confusion going on?

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:45 PM
Ramuh;2782494']Leviathan and Phoenix are distracting the town and are clearly Mafia. Now I just have to decided which scummy scum to vote off first. >:(


Ramuh;2786190']This day has had too many fishy lists and possibilities and not enough evidence.
Silly person. All the people on that list cannot be fish, but one of them has to be the leader. Stop blabbing on like a fishy and get to cracking on some theories.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:46 PM
Leviathan;2786206']
Carbuncle;2786203']

Doomtrain coming up as a Dude yet Titan said they were insane


Possible that Doomtrain simply had some gender confusion going on?
:lol:

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 10:46 PM
Man that was my first post on day one, what good did that serve?

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 10:49 PM
And I'm am happy with my vote on Titan.

- The role he claimed is not accurate to what his role should be. (heals serial killers)
- He got an insane reading on Doomtrain
- We could figure out if Valefor or Siren is guilty by lynching him.
- Initially refused to confirm he was psychologist. Could have been recruited night two and used that to his advantage.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:52 PM
Ramuh;2786209']Man that was my first post on day one, what good did that serve?
I was thinking you could answer that. :)

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 10:54 PM
Ramuh you still haven't claimed. Confirmed roles are pro-town. You're either with us or against us.

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 10:56 PM
Pvt. Cactuar was incredibly angry and pissed off with us all. What if she discovered he was the Enemy Leader, and lied to get back at us? And is laughing at us all right now?

This is all driving me insane.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-02-2010, 10:56 PM
Carbuncle;2786189']
Siren;2786187']
Carbuncle;2786183']What does Siren claim to be other obviously being Cult.

Huh?
What is your claim?

Vanilla Townie

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:07 PM
I don't wish to claim. I know that you know I'm town.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:09 PM
Once upon a time there was a Cultist named Odin. For days Odin was no where to be found until one day Odin decided to post and said he thought Ifrit was a Mafia Cop. Ifrit said "No" in many words. Odin then said "well then you must be townie cop" and then said he thought he was suspicious. Odin went after Ifrit with a venegance citing that Ifrit could be lying. An adorable summon named Carbuncle pointed out the flaws in Odin's statements. Odin then struck back at Carbuncle. Carbuncle added that Odin was going after me for the same thing he got on Ifrit for. Odin voted for Carbuncle. Valefor kept pointing out not to trust three "power roles". Odin unvoted for me and then I told Odin to suck it. And well all lived happily ever after. The end.



Odin;2784698']If Titan dies tonight however, regardless of his role, we get Shiva tomorrow..
Interesting.

[M] Athena
02-02-2010, 11:09 PM
Ramuh;2786210']And I'm am happy with my vote on Titan.

- The role he claimed is not accurate to what his role should be. (heals serial killers)
- He got an insane reading on Doomtrain
- We could figure out if Valefor or Siren is guilty by lynching him.
- Initially refused to confirm he was psychologist. Could have been recruited night two and used that to his advantage.

- You should not base what the roles should be from that flash. I was given an investigative role, not a protective role if I were to heal our serial killer, I should have turned into a Doctor then?

- I want to say that it's possible for a few pro-town roles may end up Insane, but everyone who ended up Sane are pro-town.

- Lynching me today will almost guarantee a Cult victory, and we don't want that, and it would be too late to find whether Valefor is guilty by the next day.

- I refused because I had "No Result" on the first night, and it would serve no purpose to role-claim with nothing to back me up. I was never recruited by the Cult as well.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:09 PM
Ramuh;2786220']I don't wish to claim. I know that you know I'm town.
How would I know you're town? :p

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:12 PM
Ifrit;2786215']Pvt. Cactuar was incredibly angry and pissed off with us all. What if she discovered he was the Enemy Leader, and lied to get back at us? And is laughing at us all right now?

This is all driving me insane.
Cactuar could have just as easily told the truth about Titan to get him killed during the night. Al though both possibilities could work they are just that, possibilities.

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:15 PM
Titan;2786223']
Ramuh;2786210']And I'm am happy with my vote on Titan.

- The role he claimed is not accurate to what his role should be. (heals serial killers)
- He got an insane reading on Doomtrain
- We could figure out if Valefor or Siren is guilty by lynching him.
- Initially refused to confirm he was psychologist. Could have been recruited night two and used that to his advantage.

- You should not base what the roles should be from that flash. I was given an investigative role, not a protective role if I were to heal our serial killer, I should have turned into a Doctor then?

- I want to say that it's possible for a few pro-town roles may end up Insane, but everyone who ended up Sane are pro-town.

- Lynching me today will almost guarantee a Cult victory, and we don't want that, and it would be too late to find whether Valefor is guilty by the next day.

- I refused because I had "No Result" on the first night, and it would serve no purpose to role-claim with nothing to back me up. I was never recruited by the Cult as well.

- I am not basing it from the flash. I have played Mafia before and I know what that role does.

- Doomtrain was pro-town and he didn't come up sane.

- Why? We will lynch a confirmed cult tomorrow if we lynch you. If we lynch valefor and he is innocent then it will have the same effect. Lynching you gives us a 25% chance to get cult today, and 100% tomorrow.

Sorry. I don't think you'll get lynched today anyway, but we need to get to the bottom of your sanity. Lynching you is the best way to do that. Also lynching you won't confirm a cult win because in a worst case scenario it will be 9-6

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:16 PM
As I said I did block Titan night 2 and Titan claims to have gotten a no result night 2. This is why I believed his claim but if Titan was a Cult Leader would he know he was roleblocked? Would be get the no result?

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:17 PM
;) oh really? Titan seems to have said night 1, not night 2.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:17 PM
Ramuh;2786226']9-6
11 in total
5 possible recruits

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:18 PM
that was in case titan was town and we lynched him.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:18 PM
Ramuh;2786229'];) oh really? Titan seems to have said night 1, not night 2.
A mistake. I meant night 1. I roleblocked/protected Ifrit night 2. Good catch fishy.

[M] Caprica
02-02-2010, 11:19 PM
Carbuncle;2786227']Would be get the no result?
:Oo:

I'm going to take a nap. Everyone's pointing fingers at everyone and while it's kind of amusing because it's an absolute STALEMATE this way, it's also quite counter-productive and thus, has made me cranky. Or maybe that's just because I'm a girl that I'm cranky :roll2

Either way, have fun, back in like 2 hours.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:20 PM
Worse case scenario it is currently 6-5.

I don't know where you're getting your numbers from.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:21 PM
Leviathan;2786234']
Carbuncle;2786227']Would be get the no result?
:Oo:

:lol: x 2

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:21 PM
No.

11-5 now.

- 1 Titan 10-5

-1 town and + 1 cult

9-6

suck my cock.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:22 PM
How would it be 11 - 5 when we have 11 people playing in total? Where is your maths coming from?

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:24 PM
:spin:

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:24 PM
Ramuh;2786239']
suck my cock.
That deserves a mod kill.

[M] Apollo
02-02-2010, 11:24 PM
I've been re-reading the thread for [M] Odin posts, and if you're looking for Cult instead of Mafia, he looks highly probable. It should be noted he comes out with an initial vote for [M] Valefor on Day 2, and then goes on to try to sell a Mafia Cop theory on Day 3 which is by then we're certain there's no mafia. (Sidenote: [M] Leviathan is highly doubtful of a cult at this time and his posts turn out in [M] Odin's favor) Also tries to get a lot of information on [M] Ifrit's role, possibly to see how he can get around it.

He also posts a ton that day about how everyone is on his case and tries to vote for [M] Carbuncle. I disregarded [M] Carbuncle's suspicions because he suspected me too and maybe it was a lot of random finger-pointing on his part, but [M] Odin didn't like it and when he realizes we're liking [M] Doomtrain for a Cultist, he jumps on that bandwagon. He also says he has stuff to do (understandable) but then says he'll come back but might not post (why come back, maybe to do a night action)? He could've been too late to post, but in hindsight, it's susceptible.

The final nail I can draw up for this guy is when he says he suspects the Cult can't recruit power roles. I could have sworn we all had thought [M] Titan was half-compromised since he was a good Cult target. But what if he wasn't because he was a power role? [M] Odin might've tried to recruit him and got burned, or he knew the Leader tried and failed, but in either case it's SUPER suspicious because he also hints our Roleblocker (unknown at the time) protect [M] Titan because he's outed. Hints it a day late.

It'd probably be best to review every suspect as if they were the Cult Leader and see how they've been behaving.

##UNVOTE

Oh, one bonus note: [M] Odin voted for [M] Valefor on Day 2 immediately. Failed recruitment and then an attempt to neutralize a power role?

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:25 PM
I took my rod pill.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:25 PM
Silly fishy.

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:26 PM
I'm just driving you crazy to see if you'd vote me.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:27 PM
Ramuh;2786249']I'm just driving you crazy to see if you'd vote me.
That won't work just take a look at Day 1. ;)

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:28 PM
I think I've learned that the traps don't work. Probably because I suck at them. bah.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:30 PM
Shiva, did I not say guilty cannot talk so why is Ramuh talking?

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:31 PM
##Unvote: Titan

I would like Titan to investigate me tonight. I have a plan (that will actually work this time) Nothing to be afraid of because I would prefer to keep our investigative role, but I would also like to be able to be able define his sanity. He'll have to tell the truth with me, but I don't see why he wouldn't.

[M] Athena
02-02-2010, 11:37 PM
I was planning on investigating one of our current Vanilla Townies, except Siren, but if you want me to investigate you tonight, I can do that for you Ramuh.

[M] Mom – Host
02-02-2010, 11:38 PM
First warning. Play nice Ramuh, don't post anything you wouldn't post normally.

[M] Adama
02-02-2010, 11:41 PM
Titan;2786260']I was planning on investigating one of our current Vanilla Townies, except Siren, but if you want me to investigate you tonight, I can do that for you Ramuh.
Why bother? He voted for you earlier now suddenly he's changed his mind because "he has a plan". If you feel a person should be investigated over someone else then go with that person.

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:52 PM
But Rydia, I always tell people to sample my cock.

http://www.dorlingkindersley-uk.co.uk/static/clipart/uk/dk/farm/image_farm010.jpg

He's lovely. :)

[M] Apollo
02-02-2010, 11:53 PM
A shame you haven't investigated a power role, [M] Titan, I think that would've settle the question of your results. Doing so now might be alright, but keep your target list open until you've seen the results of today.

[M] Ramuh does smell of fish. His ploys keep failing, so he comes out like a bumbling fool. But what if he were Cult? Remember the dumb I'll-save-you-Cult-if-you-confess? He said it failed after, what, twenty minutes? They could just be ploys to make himself look better.

Will be going through other people's histories as well and trying to sense Cult.

[M] Helo
02-02-2010, 11:55 PM
I admit, my playing has been terrible recently. I can genuinely sort Titan's situation out though.

[M] Felix
02-02-2010, 11:57 PM
What on earth is Gunnery Sergeant Ramuh doing? Is he going crazy and trying to draw attention to himself rather than a leader or something? Jesus.

[M] Helo
02-03-2010, 12:03 AM
Okay, let me get this straight.

I am suspicious of Titan, and I thought it would be good to put pressure on him and so i voted for him and stuff as you do. I tried to spring something on Carbuncle after he made his mistake with the night he blocked Titan (just because I wanted to keep everyone on their toes) and I failed and looked like a douchebag. My aim was to see if he would snap and vote, and then I would question him why. In retrospect, it was a crappy plan.

Now there is a reason I did not roleclaim. I want to see what alignment Titan is without lynching him, so I would ask him if he could investigate me. I'm asking him to investigate me, not because I want to distract him, but because I have a plan that makes sense and that will be revealed. This isn't a big thing and I'm not trying to draw attention to myself, I'm just trying to sort this matter out but my slightly erratic behavior today has affected that badly.

I think we should continue with the day.

[M] Helo
02-03-2010, 12:09 AM
Also i will not see the end of the day. I think the decision would be better left to the rest of the town, because I have spent too much time on unnecessary things today. I will vote for myself because I don't have enough time to read into others to make a confident vote, but not voting is not contributing.

##Vote: Ramuh

That vote is simply because I believe everyone should always vote, but I do not have time to collect my own evidence. This is my fault. Sorry town, I'll be better tomorrow.

[M] Felix
02-03-2010, 12:22 AM
Ten hut! This running interference makes me think my theory about Lt. Siren is more plausible.

In fact, for now I think it will be best if:

##vote: Siren

Let's see what the effect of this is on certain soldiers :greenie:

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-03-2010, 12:39 AM
Killing me will prove nothing.

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 12:42 AM
Votecount

Siren(3): Phoenix, Leviathan, Ifrit
Valefor(2): Diablos, Titan, Ramuh, Shiva
Titan(1): Valefor, Ramuh


I am fine with both Valefor and Siren dying today, as I have said.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-03-2010, 12:45 AM
Wait, killing me will prove something. The fact that all but Titan are wrong about me.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-03-2010, 12:48 AM
I should have done this earlier yesterday, but I'll do it now before I go

##Vote: Valefor

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 12:49 AM
Also, how will killing Siren not prove anything? We have 3 possibilities for Titan right now, if I am right.

1. Cult member
2. Telling the truth and town
3. Insane but town

If Siren is town, we know he is not insane, if Siren is Cult, we know Titan is not telling the truth.

For Valefor... If he is Cult we know Titan is not insane, and if he is town we know Titan is not telling the truth.

Therefore, if Siren is Town and Valefor is Town, Titan is Cult.

If Siren is Cult and Valefor is Cult, then Titan is Cult.

If Siren is Town and Valefor is Cult, then Titan is either Cult or telling the truth and town

If Siren is Cult and Valefor is Town, then Titan is either Cult or Insane but town.

Also, a problem with Titan investigating himself... If he is insane, then he should get an insane reading, but because he is insane, he will get sane. If Titan is sane, he will get sane.

[M] Caprica
02-03-2010, 12:52 AM
Dear Ramuh,

It has come to my attention that you are old and crazy, amongst other things.Your symptoms match up with a condition known as Magibeetus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VCOApo9k1c). Now, I know you may be a little sensitive about this condition as it could easily be quite embarassing for old timers like you, but I assure you, there is a cure! It's called Firaga (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQdzvWS-S5Q&NR=1). I'm sure that if you read the informational pamphlets that I will be sending as an attachment, you will see just how helpful this could be for you.

Please consider this my way of ensuring the town's safety. I only wish for us to make it through to the end as unscathed as possible.

Your friend,

Miss Leviathan

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 12:58 AM
Ramuh;2786276']Okay, let me get this straight.

I am suspicious of Titan, and I thought it would be good to put pressure on him and so i voted for him and stuff as you do. I tried to spring something on Carbuncle after he made his mistake with the night he blocked Titan (just because I wanted to keep everyone on their toes) and I failed and looked like a douchebag. My aim was to see if he would snap and vote, and then I would question him why. In retrospect, it was a crappy plan.

Now there is a reason I did not roleclaim. I want to see what alignment Titan is without lynching him, so I would ask him if he could investigate me. I'm asking him to investigate me, not because I want to distract him, but because I have a plan that makes sense and that will be revealed. This isn't a big thing and I'm not trying to draw attention to myself, I'm just trying to sort this matter out but my slightly erratic behavior today has affected that badly.

I think we should continue with the day.
Ofcourse a cult member would try to create such a skeavy plan.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 01:00 AM
Leviathan;2786318']Dear Ramuh,

It has come to my attention that you are old and crazy, amongst other things.Your symptoms match up with a condition known as Magibeetus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VCOApo9k1c)
:lol: Oh, tickle me biddle witters.

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 01:12 AM
Carbuncle, what about my plan? Is my plan too crazy?

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 01:13 AM
Everyone has claimed except Ramuh and not sure if Diablos has yet either. Most of the bilge rats have claimed Vanilla Town.

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 01:18 AM
I've said I was the Beloved Princess

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 01:20 AM
The cult leader, often called the cult recruiter, is the founding member of a cult, who has the job of recruiting new members. They cannot recruit certain people, including the mafia, and sometimes if they try to recruit a mafia member, they are killed but that is a variable decided by the moderator. If the leader is killed or lynched, the group can no longer recruit unless there is a secondary leader. The cult leader can communicate with members of their cult outside of the thread and win when their cult outnumbers the rest of the players. To recruit, the leader sends the name of the person they wish to recruit to the moderator. They find out if it was successful at the end of the night phase and the new member either joins immediately or at the end of the next night phase, at the moderator’s discretion.

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 01:23 AM
Carbuncle, I have asked you about my plan.

[M] Apollo
02-03-2010, 01:27 AM
Diablos;2786314']Also, how will killing Siren not prove anything? We have 3 possibilities for Titan right now, if I am right.

1. Cult member
2. Telling the truth and town
3. Insane but town

If Siren is town, we know he is not insane, if Siren is Cult, we know Titan is not telling the truth.

For Valefor... If he is Cult we know Titan is not insane, and if he is town we know Titan is not telling the truth.

Therefore, if Siren is Town and Valefor is Town, Titan is Cult.

If Siren is Cult and Valefor is Cult, then Titan is Cult.

If Siren is Town and Valefor is Cult, then Titan is either Cult or telling the truth and town

If Siren is Cult and Valefor is Town, then Titan is either Cult or Insane but town.

Also, a problem with Titan investigating himself... If he is insane, then he should get an insane reading, but because he is insane, he will get sane. If Titan is sane, he will get sane.Your wording is Insane. :mad2:

If [M] Titan's readings are accurate then a Townie reads Sane and an Anti-Town reads Insane.

If [M] Titan is a "bad" Psych, it reads oppositely. Townies are Insane and Anti-Towns are Sane.

There is no confusion as to there only being Insane results, as he's given a Sane result. So it's not all one-sided although he could just receive random results as well.

ALL OF THIS SAID, the Cult apparently cannot recruit power roles. [M] Titan is a Psych. His info might be bad, but he's supposed to be clean.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 01:29 AM
Lynching Valefor seems like the best idea. Preferably I would want to lynch someone who stands out more as a Cult Leader. But think about this. What do we really have to lose by lynching Valefor? If he is the Hag our night phase is skipped according to him about his role which is a good thing because then Cult cannot recruit and we'd still have another day to figure out who the leader is. It would be 5-5 then. If he is a Cult member then we've got rid of one and go us. 1 cult out of possibly 5 down and 5 town. It would be 5-4 then. Hmmm

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 01:30 AM
Why would we have two of the same roles? Beloved Princess and Hag have similar actions?

[M] Apollo
02-03-2010, 01:31 AM
Either [M] Rydia thought she had a great idea or [M] Diablos thought if we have one, we'd believe him about having the other.

We don't actually know if we have a Hag.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 01:38 AM
Shiva;2786245']
He also posts a ton that day about how everyone is on his case and tries to vote for [M] Carbuncle. I disregarded [M] Carbuncle's suspicions because he suspected me too and maybe it was a lot of random finger-pointing on his part, but [M] Odin didn't like it and when he realizes we're liking [M] Doomtrain for a Cultist, he jumps on that bandwagon. He also says he has stuff to do (understandable) but then says he'll come back but might not post (why come back, maybe to do a night action)? He could've been too late to post, but in hindsight, it's susceptible.

My finger pointing is never random. I pointed fingers at you because saying keep the serial killer alive and investigate me instead of a Ramuh is still an extremely scummy thing to say but makes sense now that the Nexus is explained.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 01:39 AM
Valefor no where to be found. Ramuh fishy. Odin fishy as usual. Titan confusion. Siren not helping as usual.

[M] Apollo
02-03-2010, 01:40 AM
Pretty good summary. And I really thought the Serial Killer idea wasn't bad. It's not as if he was going to kill me. :|

[M] Felix
02-03-2010, 01:40 AM
Alpha squad, secure the perimeter!

Valefor is a good choice, Siren is a good choice, Odin is a good choice. I am still torn. I think Valefor is the most likely of the three to be cult - and I don't think he is a hag - but I also think he is the least likely of the three soldiers to be a General and it's the General we need, unless Carbuncle pulls off a miracle tonight.

[M] Apollo
02-03-2010, 01:52 AM
Votecount
Siren(3): Phoenix, Leviathan, Ifrit
Valefor(3): Diablos, Titan, Ramuh, Shiva, Siren
Titan(1): Valefor, Ramuh
Ramuh (1): Ramuh

Not Voting: Carbuncle, Shiva, Odin

Is this how we're looking? :confused:

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 01:56 AM
Carbuncle;2786338']Lynching Valefor seems like the best idea. Preferably I would want to lynch someone who stands out more as a Cult Leader. But think about this. What do we really have to lose by lynching Valefor? If he is the Hag our night phase is skipped according to him about his role which is a good thing because then Cult cannot recruit and we'd still have another day to figure out who the leader is. It would be 5-5 then. If he is a Cult member then we've got rid of one and go us. 1 cult out of possibly 5 down and 5 town. It would be 5-4 then. Hmmm

I agree.

[M] Mom – Host
02-03-2010, 02:09 AM
Game opened at 10:48EST, it is now 8:08EST. ~2hrs and 40 minutes remaining.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 02:16 AM
I think Ramuh wanted to try to get me to vote for him so I wouldn't vote for the Cult Leader or he wanted to get me lynched because I can roleblock the Cult Leader. Either way, Ramuh is not to be trusted.

[M] Apollo
02-03-2010, 02:25 AM
[M] Ramuh can be cleaned out later as long as we stop the Leader today or tonight. :)

[M] Felix
02-03-2010, 02:26 AM
Does anybody who has voted for Cpl. Valefor actually thinks he is the leader? I honestly don't care about finding out whether or not Sgt. Titan is to be trusted with a lynch because it is a lynch we can ill afford. We should've shot Cpl. Valefor yesterday tbh, this is a case of shutting the stable door after the horse is bolted.

I'm really worried that many of you are not seeing the bigger picture. ie, we could well lose if we don't get the leader. Frankly, I don't think Cpl. Valefor is a Hag. I think he's Cult through and through. I am just not convinced that he is the leader.

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 02:34 AM
I think Valefor may be the leader. and even if he isn't, it would be better to prolong out death than to aid it.

[M] Apollo
02-03-2010, 02:34 AM
I would think [M] Odin was the Cult Leader, but the odds of stringing him up are slim. :(

[M] Felix
02-03-2010, 02:40 AM
Diablos;2786368']I think Valefor may be the leader. and even if he isn't, it would be better to prolong out death than to aid it.I think you are one of the few untainted townies, Captain Diablos, so I am interested to why you think Cpl. Valefor is the leader. If he isn't, well, lynching him is better than hitting one of our troops, but it's still not the optimum outcome.


Shiva;2786369']I would think [M] Odin was the Cult Leader, but the odds of stringing him up are slim. :(I would be more than willing to vote for Lance Cpl. Odin.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 02:46 AM
Shiva;2786369']I would think [M] Odin was the Cult Leader, but the odds of stringing him up are slim. :(
Why would they be slim?

[M] Felix
02-03-2010, 02:47 AM
In fact, in the hope of starting an offensive:

##unvote ##vote: Odin

Will switch back to Lt. Siren if it looks like Lance Cpl. Odin is nowhere near the firing squad.

[M] Apollo
02-03-2010, 02:53 AM
##VOTE: [M] Odin

Who are you going to get to vote?

[M] Apollo
02-03-2010, 02:55 AM
Votecount
Siren(2): Phoenix, Leviathan, Ifrit
Valefor(3): Diablos, Titan, Ramuh, Shiva, Siren
Titan(1): Valefor, Ramuh
Ramuh (1): Ramuh
Odin (2): Ifrit, Shiva

Not Voting: Carbuncle, Odin

[M] Felix
02-03-2010, 02:57 AM
Hopefully any soldiers who haven't been compromised and claimed as POWs will come to back us up. I doubt any cultists will join in for some bizarre reason...!

Also, you deserve a medal for the vote count. :)

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 03:07 AM
Well, I'll check Odin out in a sec. I need to get the Sun Sigil in FFX first(Kill me).

[M] Anise
02-03-2010, 03:08 AM
I'm going to need to reread that evidence against Odin before I switch my vote, if at all.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 03:09 AM
Well, looks like Diablos won't be coming back until 5 years later.

##Vote: Odin

[M] Felix
02-03-2010, 03:11 AM
Phoenix;2786385']I'm going to need to reread that evidence against Odin before I switch my vote, if at all.Staff Sgt. Phoenix, I made a pretty good post (or I like to think so, anyway) with my views on him and Valefor. Give it a read and report to your CO to tell us what you think about it.

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 03:13 AM
Carbuncle;2786386']Well, looks like Diablos won't be coming back until 5 years later.

##Vote: Odin

About 2 hours ago I got a 0.0.4 on my 3rd or 4th try, and I thought, "Hey, maybe this won't be as bad as I remember! Maybe I got better since then!"

I hoping the game will pity me, so I'll check out Odin while I'm waiting for my timer to max out.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 03:13 AM
So did Shiva.

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 03:22 AM
Odin;2785047']I originally thought it was a bad Idea until I realized what the chances of me getting targeted are.

I'm constantly on every ones suspicion list, so why would you recruit someone likely to get lynched? Unless I was cult before the suspicion, what are the chances they have recruited me since, or intend on recruiting me now? Me claiming Vanilla town doesn't really change the likelihood of me getting recruited or not. All it does now is give you all warning to watch me at all future days, not something thats really of benefit to the Cult at all.

I say we turn our eyes to someone who has yet to claim a power roll, and whose behavior has remained consistent from day one. We nail them I think we may find our cult leader.

I think the bold is a big thing right here. He hasn't been entirely consistent from day 1, has he? Maybe he was purposely changed a little so he could use this if he was on the chopping block?

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 03:24 AM
Oops :p

This was supposed to go above the post I just made:cool:

Actually, Odin seems like a good choice. He goes for the easy kills, he seems to be saying a lot without actually saying anything, and he has tried to prove that he is town in some odd ways, here is a quote.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 03:27 AM
I have posts against Odin as well, but agree that looking at his quotes is the best way to go about it. He is definitely a big fishy, but would he be the biggest fish? As I said I think he is more likely to big the Cult Leader than Valefor. Odin tried tried to slander Titan, Ifrit, Shiva and my name. How interesting.

[M] Caprica
02-03-2010, 03:28 AM
unvote

##vote: odin

[M] Anise
02-03-2010, 03:29 AM
I've read not only your post Ifrit, but also that of Shiva and Carbuncle. It's pretty convincing.


Shiva;2786245']
Oh, one bonus note: [M] Odin voted for [M] Valefor on Day 2 immediately. Failed recruitment and then an attempt to neutralize a power role?

This is especially alarming, because like Shiva says here:

Shiva;2786245']
The final nail I can draw up for this guy is when he says he suspects the Cult can't recruit power roles. I could have sworn we all had thought [M] Titan was half-compromised since he was a good Cult target. But what if he wasn't because he was a power role? [M] Odin might've tried to recruit him and got burned, or he knew the Leader tried and failed

Everybody seemed at least partially suspicious of Titan because he would be an obvious target for the Cult. Was there a basis for his suspicion? Other than being a Cultist, that is :p

Also that bolded bit I see Diablos has quoted in my preview is concerning.

If I recall, we still have a bit of time, so I'm just going to mull it over a bit while longer. Now is not the stage to rush things.

[M] Anise
02-03-2010, 03:32 AM
Whoa Miss Leviathan, while there is ample evidence, could you point out why you voted? What exactly reeks of Cult to you?

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 03:33 AM
Leviathan;2786204']Ifrit, theory 2 is also possible. I find both of your theories to be equally possible. Howeverr, I have a slight bias against Siren due to the fact that she hasn't done hardly a thing to even pretend to help. Laying oh so very low is not helpful in the least and a very good reason for me to believe her to be Cult leader.


Siren;2784773']I see two problems right now.

1.

Carbuncle;2784726']Night 2 - I chose Ifrit because I was iffy about his role. I wanted to see what he'd say after he got roleblocked and protected and it confirmed for to me that Ifrit definitely had a killing ability at night. He says he went after Bahamut and Bahamut is still alive so we can presume this. Chocobo coming up as guilty for Ifrit and then it being revealed that Choboco is also a serial killer also tells me that Ifrit is most likely not lying.

The theory of there being no mafia isn't the only way of explaining Ifrit not dieing. After all, the mafia might have tried to kill him.

2. If the cult can recruit, what if Doomtrain isn't the recruiter? Titan, can you be recruited?


Odin;2784698']You know, we could always just check Titans claim tonight and lynch Doomtrain, and have him check out Shiva tonight. Kill two birds with one stone.

If Titan dies tonight however, regardless of his role, we get Shiva tomorrow.


Diablos;2784723']Well, I agree that Odin and Shiva are suspicious, but I think for today I will be going with Doomtrain.

##Vote: Doomtrain

I don't really know what to say, does anyone have questions for me? (I don't know the capital of Malawi, nor Assyria, in case you arre wondering.)


Odin;2784703']They are likely to target Titan regardless right now. There isn't much stopping this from happening at this point.

Either

1) The enemy has the Roleblocker, and from here on out will prevent Titan from revealing their Identity.

2) If we have a doc, he's most likely defending Titan if Doom flips scum, or perhaps you 'supposedly' will if you get the power of a doctor tonight.

3) If we have no doc, Titan is dead regardless.

4) If they are something like a cult and can't kill, they'll try recruiting Titan. If they can't recruit power roles, then Titan lives and gives us a reading on Shiva.

Regardless of me saying that, Titan's fate was already decided. ;p


Odin;2784520']1) What happened day 2 and night 2 both can point to either that or the Mafia Cop theory. Why is it you are so sure it's the one Ifirit claims to be true? Whats tipping the scales in his favor?

2)



Doomtrain;2782615']I don't think Ifrit is mafia, weird roles are rarely scum.


Doomtrain;2784513']Hello. I'm sorry if I'm suspicious. And I'm not new, I'm just really really busy lately. D:

Ramuh is pretty suspicious, but my true feelings are for Ifrit. Feelings of suspicion I mean. :D

...Care to explain the jump in logic between those two quotes?


Ifrit;2784522']
Odin;2784520']1) What happened day 2 and night 2 both can point to either that or the Mafia Cop theory. Why is it you are so sure it's the one Ifirit claims to be true? Whats tipping the scales in his favor?And what be yer evidence that I be a Landlubber Cop, Odin lad? That I be gettin' a serial killer lynched? Arrrr, Cap'n Ifrit be sorry about that, Odin! Next time he be gettin' a guilty result, he be keepin' it all to himself because the only people who be capable o' findin' bad guys clearly be Landlubber Cops. :greenie:


Odin;2784528']And what proof do you have of your own claim Ifrit? All you have is you caught the serial killer. And? That supports both cases. It's also entirley possible it was a lucky guess on your own part. Why should we believe your claim Ifrit? You can't prove your target was Bahamut, can you? All we know is last night someone didn't die.

And Carbuncle, what about a townie cop? They have reason to stay out of the limelight, to avoid negative attention and mafia kill to protect a town power role, the same as the doc. Mafia are not always the only ones with reason to hide.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 03:38 AM
You know, we could always just check Titans claim tonight and lynch Doomtrain, and have him check out Shiva tonight. Kill two birds with one stone.

If Titan dies tonight however, regardless of his role, we get Shiva tomorrow.

^ How do you people let this guy go this long without being lynched? :eep:

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 03:38 AM
Yeah, I think I will vote Odin

##Unvote: Valefor
##Vote: Odin

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 03:45 AM
Diablos;2786388']
Carbuncle;2786386']Well, looks like Diablos won't be coming back until 5 years later.

##Vote: Odin

About 2 hours ago I got a 0.0.4 on my 3rd or 4th try, and I thought, "Hey, maybe this won't be as bad as I remember! Maybe I got better since then!"

I hoping the game will pity me, so I'll check out Odin while I'm waiting for my timer to max out.

If anyone cares, it didn't fucking work

[M] Anise
02-03-2010, 03:47 AM
##Unvote: [M] Siren
##Vote: [M] Odin

[M] Caprica
02-03-2010, 03:47 AM
erm, lynx? :p

Also, the quote Carbuncle just bolded (too lazy to quote his quote lol) is actually the one that sticks out most to me. Lynch shiva no matter what titan turns out to be? Really? Does that make sense in ANY logical universe?

[M] Anise
02-03-2010, 03:48 AM
Bad luck Diablos, that Sigil can be tough sometimes.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 03:49 AM
It makes sense for Odin because he is Cult. Lynching a Nexus would be a good thing because he can't recruit a Nexus if this game isn't more bizarre than it already is.

[M] Felix
02-03-2010, 03:50 AM
Halt, soldiers!

With 6 votes, and 11 players, does this not make a speed lynch?

General Rydia?

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 03:52 AM
Siren and Valefor since you were once tied, what are your thoughts?

[M] Apollo
02-03-2010, 03:52 AM
Leviathan;2786409']erm, lynx? :p
It was only a matter of time, given our track records. :(

Votecount
Siren(0): Phoenix, Leviathan, Ifrit
Valefor(2): Diablos, Titan, Ramuh, Shiva, Siren
Titan(1): Valefor, Ramuh
Ramuh (1): Ramuh
Odin (6): Ifrit, Shiva, Carbuncle, Leviathan, Diablos, Phoenix

Not Voting: Odin

[M] Gaius
02-03-2010, 03:53 AM
Ok, I'll bite. I'm always escaping these by the skin of my teeth!

<b>##Unvote: Titan
##Vote: Odin</b>

Please be cult leader!

[M] Caprica
02-03-2010, 03:54 AM
I think I've made all of one post so far in here and deleted it right away :exdee: on the flipside, I posted a single post with this account in gen chat, so i was getting it from both sides pervs :eep:

[M] Gaius
02-03-2010, 03:55 AM
I still think Titan is scum, but he definitely isn't the leader. Also I think Siren was a recruit and not a leader. After process of elimination it must be Odin!

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 03:56 AM
You waited until I called you out AGAIN to post something. Being a lurky lay-lower suits Cult. Your change of behavior has not gone unnoticed.

[M] Gaius
02-03-2010, 03:59 AM
What? My post is above yours on my computer!

[M] Caprica
02-03-2010, 04:02 AM
your face :colbert:

[M] Gaius
02-03-2010, 04:07 AM
I don't read your posts anyway, Carbuncle.

[M] Adama
02-03-2010, 04:14 AM
Sure you don't. If you didn't read my posts you wouldn't be responding to one of them ;)

[M] Caprica
02-03-2010, 04:18 AM
can't we all just get along :cry:

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 04:21 AM
So, when is Rydia getting back.

Also...

BOOOOOOsmurfINGYEAHHHHHHH I GOT THE SUN SIGIL YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHKAJSGBFKJASDBVKJBQWEVKMNB QVBLDSVNLSA:KMVL

[M] Caprica
02-03-2010, 04:23 AM
I have an important question for everyone that we should have considered from the beginning of our hunt for the cult leader. It's so important that I must spoilerize it first.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Jessweeee♪
02-03-2010, 04:24 AM
I know I'm not supposed to post in here but getting the Sun Sigil is a big deal! Congrats Diablos n.n

[M] Anise
02-03-2010, 04:24 AM
Not half bad there Diablos. Crack open the champagne, it's time to celebrate your victory

[M] Anise
02-03-2010, 04:26 AM
Leviathan;2786432']
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

:colbert:

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 04:31 AM
Actually, I may have led you guys on. This is my 2nd or 3rd time getting it, but it's still a fricken accomplishment because it never, ever gets easier.

[M] Caprica
02-03-2010, 04:33 AM
So you HAVE really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? :eek: I'm impressed!

[M] Elize
02-03-2010, 04:37 AM
Leviathan;2786432']I have an important question for everyone that we should have considered from the beginning of our hunt for the cult leader. It's so important that I must spoilerize it first.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

I have the answer!

You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense.

[M] Caprica
02-03-2010, 04:45 AM
I was looking for that on google but i couldn't remember how it went :exdee:

[M] Anise
02-03-2010, 04:49 AM
I know I'm not supposed to post in here but getting the Sun Sigil is a big deal! Congrats Diablos n.n

Goddammit Jessweeee♪ you're meant to be dead! Dead people don't talk. Just lay there a little while longer, okay? :p

[M] Gaius
02-03-2010, 05:30 AM
Where the hell is Rydia to hand us our dead cult leader? :p

[M] Anise
02-03-2010, 06:29 AM
I'm not even gonna be here to find out how Odin flips :(

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
02-03-2010, 07:00 AM
I'll be honest, every hunch I had has been wrong, so I have no way to defend myself.

In regards to my comment on lynching Shiva, that was made prior to the Idea that he was ever targeted by Carbuncle. And I don't see how my thoughts on why it didn't matter if I stated my roll as Vanilla town, or my comments on what to do about Titan's roleclaim was suspicious, as it was true. :p

But my horrid target record speaks for itself. I'll keep my lot in on Valefor howerver.

##Vote: Valefor

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-03-2010, 07:16 AM
Doesn't matter Odin. You're dead.

[M] Helo
02-03-2010, 08:09 AM
This town can't seem to make its mind up until the end of the day.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-03-2010, 08:22 AM
What does that mean?

[M] Helo
02-03-2010, 08:29 AM
We start the day determined on lynching Valefor, and we switch to Odin. Same thing pretty much happened with bahamut too, where he got saved. Not a bad thing necessarily.

I know I am the big target for tomorrow but could you guys wait until I come back before I'm expected to answer stuff? I have a busy day today but I will be way before the day ends to answer any questions/accusations.

[M] Mom – Host
02-03-2010, 01:25 PM
The one time I fall asleep early you majority lynch...

Odin was Vanilla Town, night 5 actions please.

[M] Mom – Host
02-04-2010, 12:14 AM
Sylph rode Ixion around singing Christmas carols. I have no idea why, but I really don't care either. Nobody died last night again.

Also the town is currently in endgame. 10 remain, 5 for a majority lynch. 24 hour limit on time.

[M] Caprica
02-04-2010, 12:17 AM
Ixion :heart:

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 12:29 AM
Hiiiiiiiii there! I'm feeling tho faaaaaaaabulouth today~ :jess:

I fucking hate Rydia.

[M] Caprica
02-04-2010, 12:30 AM
Someone's feeling quite gay today.

[M] Athena
02-04-2010, 12:41 AM
Oh Ifrit! :aimkiss:

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 12:43 AM
Why, Titan, is that a bone in your speedo or are you just pleased to see me? :jokey:

...:yuck:

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 12:45 AM
So town is not dead. There's only four possibilities for this.

1. Ifrit got roleblocker last night which is the only one he hasn't gotten so far if I am remembering correctly and he blocked the Cult Leader from recruiting.
2. I roleblocked the Cult Leader.
3. I protected the right person.
4. Cult tried to recruit someone who was unrecruitable and wasted a day. This may apply to if they tried to recruit Shiva.

[M] Athena
02-04-2010, 12:45 AM
Anyway, we should focus on finding our Cult Leader, and Valefor is currently our best bet. I'm quite shocked we decided to go after Odin yesterday. We are on the verge of losing if we lynch the wrong person again.

[M] Caprica
02-04-2010, 12:46 AM
Horny Gay Faith Healer all over again? :colbert:

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-04-2010, 02:09 AM
Maybe just horny gay.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-04-2010, 04:09 AM
Where is everyone?

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 04:27 AM
Looking for cupcakes. Rydia, could we have 30 hours for this day too since both Rydias left us high and dry yesteryear.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 06:25 AM
Hiiiiiiiii thailorth!

That dah-ling Carbuncle is correct in his assumption that I was a roleblocker last night. I chose Siren as I figured if Theory 2 was wrong, Theory 1 would be the best bet.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 07:04 AM
Also, sweeties, let's not have a fucking speed lynch like yesterday. We probably should've let that dirty little spunkmuffin Odin at least explain himself but things just got carried away. It was a mistake that has cost us dearly, we need to learn from it.

We need to play it cool and not rush into anything. We should talk, speculate and question people right up until the final hour.

[M] Elize
02-04-2010, 07:06 AM
Well, I'm getting my wisdom teeth pulled tomorrow, so I will try to be here earlier in the morning before I leave, and I should be back before the day is over, but I may still be a little high from the anesthesia...

Anyway, last night, when I got very tired of FFX from the fricken Sun Sigil, I looked over the thread, and I think Siren is worse than Valefor right now. His timing for his claims and theories and ideas just seem way too convenient. Just in case I can't make it back in time, I'll place my vote now.

##Vote: Siren

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 07:11 AM
OK, fair enough, Siren is probably who I would vote for right now if I knew I couldn't show up tomorrow, Diablos you evil pile of raw sex appeal. Good luck with your teeth.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-04-2010, 07:24 AM
Lynch me and the town losses.

[M] Athena
02-04-2010, 07:29 AM
I concur. Siren came up Sane when I investigated her. We should not consider voting for her.

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 07:45 AM
Who did you investigate tonight Titan and what was the outcome?

[M] Athena
02-04-2010, 07:47 AM
I investigated Ramuh. I want to wait for him to be around before I reveal the result.

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 07:50 AM
Why would you not reveal it now? Times a wasting.

[M] Athena
02-04-2010, 07:54 AM
There's plenty of time, and besides, I want to hear his reaction to the revelation.

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 08:01 AM
You'll hear it either way.

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 08:13 AM
Tell me quick.

[M] Athena
02-04-2010, 08:14 AM
First Ramuh, what do you believe your result would be?

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 08:16 AM
Just to make certain you aren't cult, I can't tell you. You have more standing with the town so they would believe you if I lied. I won't lie.

[M] Athena
02-04-2010, 08:17 AM
Fine, I understand. I got a Sane reading from you, so I believe you are not a threat.

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 08:20 AM
I am a Vanilla Townie. You are sane.

Valefor is cult.

##vote: Valefor

[M] Athena
02-04-2010, 08:28 AM
Of course I am sane; I was never insane in the first place. This is why we should lynch Valefor and not Siren today. We have a greater chance of winning with Valefor lynched.

<b>## Vote: Valefor</b>

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 08:29 AM
Doomtrain threw us off track with his insane reading.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
02-04-2010, 12:12 PM
If he was a night bomb, blowing up could kill Ifrit. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

[M] Gaius
02-04-2010, 03:57 PM
Titan;2787054']I concur. Siren came up Sane when I investigated her. We should not consider voting for her.
She could have been recruited after you investigated her. Why would you be so confident that she wasn't?

Oh, that's right, because you were turned a long time ago. I guess now you guys have Ramuh too. Or maybe you are just trying to get Ramuh to vote with you so he can help you win. Not buying it, never did.

All I know is that I was never turned. I've been for the town this whole time.

<b>##Vote: Siren</b>

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 05:12 PM
It's down to the town - do they believe more in Valefor or good old Ramuh and Titan? All I know is I decided to not reveal (and refused plenty of times) so we had some way of testing Titan. I will admit, originally I held back just because I didn't feel comfortable being a vanilla townie where people would suspect be of being recruited the day after, but my plan changed and it paid off.

[M] Apollo
02-04-2010, 05:15 PM
Why is it so easy to string up [M] Valefor? This is the main reason I've been against doing so. He does tend to get up there on the lynch list, but I can't ever see why the Cult would allow that. I don't know and it drives me up the wall.

So what's the deal with [M] Diablos? Dude's clearly willing to sacrifice who's available, seeing how in the past few days [M] Siren and [M] Valefor were good lynchees for him. I think he clearly stated it didn't matter between the two who died. But then he suddenly jumped on the Speed Lynch for [M] Odin once we got it going. Maybe I made a good case, I thought I made a damn good case, but the bandwagon kind of prevented a discussion, and it turns out we only lynched an honest man.

So I'm hoping we get it right when we lynch [M] Valefor or [M] Siren, but I'm not too trusting of our "Beloved Princess" and he can suck it should we mess up with the "Old Hag".

[M] Apollo
02-04-2010, 05:17 PM
I guess I was trying for impartiality there, but getting the bird does look more appealing. That last sentence is so jacked up. :(

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 05:20 PM
MMMMM! Are there any cute guys in here? ;)

how long do we have left?

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 05:21 PM
*raises hand and back clicks*

[M] Apollo
02-04-2010, 05:21 PM
Well, if [M] Siren ends up dirty, so would [M] Ramuh, given that he's preached so much about [M] Titan's accurate readings.

And two role-blockers makes things messy, did I miss [M] Carbuncle stating who he blocked/protected? [M] Ifrit said he stopped [M] Siren from any night actions, if any.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 05:21 PM
Also for the record, spunky sailors, I'm still leaning towards Siren as the leader. Valefor, as Shiva said, has been way too close to the brink for some time for a cult leader. Everyone's against the guy. Everyone! That can't be right if he's the leader. His minions would willingly die for him.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 05:22 PM
Although I still fancy Valefor (;););)) ....as cult, so why he'd vote for his leader I don't know. Argh.

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 05:23 PM
Shiva;2787181']Well, if [M] Siren ends up dirty, so would [M] Ramuh, given that he's preached so much about [M] Titan's accurate readings.

And two role-blockers makes things messy, did I miss [M] Carbuncle stating who he blocked/protected? [M] Ifrit said he stopped [M] Siren from any night actions, if any.

By "preaching so much" I hope you mean two posts. :flirt:

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 05:45 PM
Did that sexy bucket of love juice, Carbuncle, say who he blocked?

[M] Apollo
02-04-2010, 05:47 PM
Yeah, if you mean recently, you dirty old man.

No, I think not, [M] Ifrit.

This is our current outfit:
[M] Carbuncle
[M] Diablos
[M] Ifrit
[M] Leviathan
[M] Phoenix
[M] Ramuh
[M] Shiva
[M] Siren
[M] Titan
[M] Valefor

If we assume the power roles are off-limits (-4), it gets to this:
[M] Diablos
[M] Leviathan
[M] Phoenix
[M] Ramuh
[M] Siren
[M] Valefor

If the Princess and Hag roles are to be believed (-2):
[M] Leviathan
[M] Phoenix
[M] Ramuh
[M] Siren

That leaves us 4 big targets for the Cult Leader, if he's not among them already.

We're told this is the endgame, so we must be near the brink of things. So the score should look like 6 to 4, right? So what does that mean? It means 4 people are Cult. The only people who can be Cult beyond the leader are on that last list, if the P&H ploy is to be believed. Even if the P&H isn't believed (nice idea, Cult), those there are the 4 who'll seal our fate.

So what happens today? We kill a person. If this person's Cult, we turn 6-3. Cult recruits someone at night, 5-4. Today, were we to kill someone NOT Cult, the score'd be 5-4 and since the Cult Leader knows their targets as well as we do, we would lose during the night, 4-5.

What does this all mean? We have to nab a Cultist today. Doesn't matter if it's the Leader or not, right? He'll be out of targets and we can slowly root Cult out like daily weeding. In fact, it wouldn't be down to voting any longer if the 4 confirmed powers work as a team, slowly eliminating everyone else. It could be automated at that point. This really is the endgame, guys.

Should we really need the Cult Leader? Does the previous paragraph make sense? Have we been looking at this all wrong with the idea "NAB THE LEADER NAB HIM KILL HIM"? I think we just have to outnumber them in the end.

Oh, and in writing this, it helped me consider the P&H possibility and why it's probably not true. More on that soon.

[M] Apollo
02-04-2010, 06:04 PM
P&H (Princess and Hag)

The theory exists that 2 of our suspicious colleagues are power roles, the Beloved Princess and the Old Hag.

Taking this claim as true brings this chain of logic:
[M] Valefor and [M] Diablos are the Princess and Hag, respectively.
The Cult Leader exists within the remaining 4 "Townies".
The Cult Leader has no more targets.
To win, the Cult must rely on lynchings to reduce the number of pro-townies.

This could be true, but it doesn't spell out endgame to me. Even were we to lynch a townie today, the score would be 5-4, town's favor, and we could recover, since there'd be no more recruits.

Taking this claim as false yields this:
There is no Princess and Hag.
[M] Valefor and [M] Diablos lied.
The Cult Leader exists within a group of 6.
The Cult Leader may still convert 2 more targets.
To win, the Cult may use both lynchings and conversion.

So where does that leave us? We lynch right and the Cult gets a convert tonight, we're down to 5-4, still a fighting chance for another day. We lynch wrong and the Cult gets a convert, we're 4-5, game over. Very much an endgame scenario.

Logic and indisputable fact aside, while either of these scenarios can be true, the latter carries more weight in my mind. I would also suspect [M] Valefor and [M] Diablos of being Cult for their claims, and maybe even one of them being the Leader. Of course, their leader could've just told them to do that and kept him or herself hidden in a Vanilla role.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 06:16 PM
If we are to take Shiva's - btw, do you know of any cute guys I could meet? I'm all alone and need some company ;) - P&H Theory as truth, then we have to look at why it was made.

If we lynch a Beloved Princess, it harms us a lot more than harming this supposed Hag role. Therefore, we would be more willing to lynch Valefor than Diablos, and so of the two, you'd want your leader to be seen as the "Beloved Princess". Therefore of the two, it could well be Diablos that is the leader.

If the two of them are being truthful, and I am more willing to believe Diablos is being honest than Valefor, can they be recruited? It seems unfair to the cult to leave them with just 4 possible members. And, suppose they can be, do they retain their powers or lose them? I would have to say that in my opinion, letting the new recruits keep their old powers too sounds very unbalanced, if they can be recruited, I would theorise they would lose their powers. If they do lose their powers, and Diablos is being truthful, it would make a lot more sense for the cult NOT to recruit him and leave him as a Beloved Princess, as a BP, in death, is designed to help the scum roles.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 06:17 PM
When I say "why it was made" I mean "why the claims of Hag and BP were made".

TO SAN FRANCISCO! :jess:

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 06:20 PM
Diablos;2786404']Yeah, I think I will vote Odin

##Unvote: Valefor
##Vote: Odin


Phoenix;2786408']##Unvote: [M] Siren
##Vote: [M] Odin


Valefor;2786415']Ok, I'll bite. I'm always escaping these by the skin of my teeth!

##Unvote: Titan
##Vote: Odin

Please be cult leader!

All in half a page. I smell a cult bandwagon methinks.

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 06:23 PM
And beloved princess is a very convenient role to claim. I doubt the mods would include it, as if the serial killer was alive it would mean two possible townies dead and two recruited. In a game with 15 people, not only would this be excessive, but it would wreck the town. Diablos is right underneath Valefor on my suspicions list.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 06:25 PM
Oooh, nice work Ramuh. I just want to cover my face in your beard.

Although you have to wonder if they'd be as obvious as that. If so then LOL @ the cult.

I checked myself and we have six hours. I'll be leaving for an hour or so of that, but beyond that I'll be here so I hope we can use this time productively and not speed lynch Siren or Valefor or whoever else.

[M] Athena
02-04-2010, 06:32 PM
You can never trust those flyers.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 06:35 PM
The current vote count is 2 to Valefor (that sexy hunk!) and 2 to Siren (ew! A girl!)

5 is needed for a speed lynch. So let's not get above 3 for the time being imho.

I believe Carbuncle, Ifrit, Leviathan, Phoenix, Shiva, and Siren have not voted.

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 06:42 PM
Also Diablos and Valefor voted for Siren. Phoenix is yet to vote. Not only does this support the connection between the trio, but I'd like to see what excuse phoenix comes up with to saves Valefor, or if he will actually vote for him.

[M] Apollo
02-04-2010, 06:42 PM
More feedback from all nine other players would be appreciated. Have I been too far-fetched, or are there chinks in my thinking? Do either [M] Diablos or [M] Valefor would like to say something about possibly being liars?

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 06:50 PM
Also, still waiting for that big sweaty pot of cuddles, Carbuncle, to reveal his target. I think that the only way we did not lose yesterday was through either his block or my own (Siren) so I think it is imperative we find out who it was.

Indeed, Ramuh. That feathery sweaty trumpet Phoenix hasn't even posted today. Callin' you out, birdy. Where are you?

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 06:57 PM
Leviathan;2785718']##Unvote

##Vote: Bahamut

At this point Leviathan stopped a Valefor lynch to lynch bahamut, constant target of Valefor. This vote saved Valefor.


Leviathan;2786156']##Vote: Siren

You haven't been helpful to the town at all. Perfect candidate for cult leader, if you ask me.

And again, Interestingly, Leviathan ignores Diablos and (to some extent) phoenix to go for the character who happened to get a sane reading. Siren has been more useful than them.

I am certain that these four are the cult.

Valefor
Phoenix
Diablos
Leviathan

I think there must be four members because we are at endgame. The behaviour of these members would indicate that Siren is not a member, and I know that I am not. Neither me or Siren have any connection with these four members. The rest of you are almost confirmed pro-town.

I want you guys to tell me if you believe me or not. I'm not basing my evidence exclusively off of the votes (although when analyzed it's a big clue) but I also stated at day 3 that I thought Leviathan and Phoenix had a pact together. Valefor was anti-inactive, but I have not seen instances where he has called Diablos or Phoenix out.

Feedback please. I have a very strong feeling I'm right on this one.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 07:03 PM
I have to step out for an hour, but I like your theory Ramuh you handsome devil, and I want to comment on it to get back. So rest assured that feeback from me at least is coming.

[M] Felix
02-04-2010, 07:03 PM
*when I get back

I hate not being able to edit xD

MANSEX

[M] Apollo
02-04-2010, 07:07 PM
There are 6 possibilities for the 4 Cultists. You're at least half right.

[M] Helo
02-04-2010, 07:11 PM
Like I said, where is the evidence that me or Siren would be cult? I have looked, there is no connection.

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 07:16 PM
Ifrit;2787029']Hiiiiiiiii thailorth!

That dah-ling Carbuncle is correct in his assumption that I was a roleblocker last night. I chose Siren as I figured if Theory 2 was wrong, Theory 1 would be the best bet.
I was hoping you didn't roleblock the same person as me. What a waste of my night.

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 07:17 PM
Night 1: Titan
Night 2: Ifrit
Night 3: Bahamut
Night 4: Valefor
Night 5: Siren

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 07:23 PM
10 total
6 town
5 possible cult

1. Carbuncle
2. Ifrit
3. Shiva
4. Titan?
5. ?
6. ?

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 07:24 PM
Oops, that maths is all wrong. Do over!


10 total
6 town
4 possible cult

[M] Adama
02-04-2010, 07:26 PM
Valefor and/or Diablos is lying. I don't think we'd have two of the similar roles which is Hag and Beloved Princess.