Squall's Dead. SPOILERS

[The Last Oath]

Squall's Dead - a theory of what really happens in Final Fantasy VIII (http://squallsdead.com/)

Read through it, its quite interesting.

I think that wierd ending with Squall seeing the blurring images really makes sense now. I always wondered what the hell was going on.

We shall talk about this more when people have read the article.

[Bolivar]

Read it in NeoGaf today actually, it is very interesting. But it's obviously a way for a fan to rationalize what he believed was a bad story into something he could enjoy.

[Lightening]

All these FFVIII theories are very weird. Some of them are interesting and all, but FFVIII would be a pretty sucky game if 12 years would pass before the first person understood it.

Funny thread title though! :D

[qwertysaur]

You should look back at some of the theories in this forum. They are fun to read :p

[Jessweeee♪]

I agree with Bolivar. However since it makes as much sense as it does, it'll be easy for me to play through the game and honestly believe this is the case. I just started a new game recently, and I think I'll keep this article in mind when I progress through the story. I really like this theory!

[MJN SEIFER]

This guy(?) has basically spent so much time trying to find meaning he actually completly missed several cases of actual meaning! A lot of things he said that where "never explained" where explained - many of which shortly after the questions where asked! For one thing this guy has never done the shumi side quest, and he clearly didn't pay any attention to the final battle, which explains the ending.

[Jessweeee♪]

This guy(?) has basically spent so much time trying to find meaning he actually completly missed several cases of actual meaning! A lot of things he said that where "never explained" where explained - many of which shortly after the questions where asked! For one thing this guy has never done the shumi side quest, and he clearly didn't pay any attention to the final battle, which explains the ending.

I think he just wasn't satisfied with the explanation that was presented. And he did do the Shumi sidequest :p


Of course, Moombas are explained within the context of the game. In the Shumi Village you can learn who the Moombas are, who they evolve from, and so on and so forth. The game takes the plot developments of the dream very seriously and treats them all as truth, which makes the dream theory especially difficult to argue. Sure, all this stuff seems weird, but how do we know that it’s all intended to be a dream? Maybe the creators just thought it’d be cool to have talking cats around! And who knows, maybe they did. But I think it’s more than convenient that the more fantastical elements, such as talking lions, do not appear in the game until after the moment where Squall may have died.

[Bolivar]

Man I love the Shumi sidequest. I only discovered it on my 3rd or 4th playthrough and took the time to complete it. Such a relaxing part of the story and showed some of the things FFVIII really did right. It tied in all the different groups like Fisherman's Horizon and Gardens and Moombas in a way that showed you what FFVIII is all about.

[McLovin']

Kinda makes the game have no purpose then. If they were to do that they would be more up front about it like with Tidus or something.

[Moon Rabbits]

tl ; dr.

[Mogi]

I think it's a very interesting concept and a wonderful literary device, but I couldn't quite convince myself of it. I sure wish I could though.

[The Last Oath]

The points I can remember from the article that really make this theory credible are:

*Ultimechia just happens to "summon" Griever.. the same lion on squalls necklace.

*Everything in the flashback at the end of the game is from disc 1 except the rinoa in the space suit.

*Squall gets Rinoa even though she showed interest in only Seifer throughout disc 1

*Some of the events after disc 1 had no hinting to in disc 1.

The only thing in the game I can think of that doesnt, 100% confirm this theory for me is when Irvine says on the train to Deiling, "Maybe its Fate". after "re-meeting" with Selphie.

Magnificent Theory by the author though.

[Jessweeee♪]

The only thing in the game I can think of that doesnt, 100% confirm this theory for me is when Irvine says on the train to Deiling, "Maybe its Fate". after "re-meeting" with Selphie.


This and Ellone calling Quistis by her childhood nickname "Quisty." I'm just gonna ignore it, though :|

[Lightening]

You should look back at some of the theories in this forum. They are fun to read :p

These theories are all over the internet. :onoes: some of them are very fun

[Vyk]

Just got done reading the article. Made more sense to me than the game did. With references to movies like Eternal Sunshine and Vanilla Sky and the correlations drawn. I'm completely on board this theory

[MJN SEIFER]

The points I can remember from the article that really make this theory credible are:

*Ultimechia just happens to "summon" Griever.. the same lion on squalls necklace.


It is explained that she read Squall's mind and copied the "GF" based on his own dispair - the "nothing" land is Squall's dispair.


*Everything in the flashback at the end of the game is from disc 1 except the rinoa in the space suit.

They also had scenes from disc 3, and disk 2. Like the Garden Battles, the Ragnarok


*Squall gets Rinoa even though she showed interest in only Seifer throughout disc 1
She showed memories in Seifer, she showed plenty of interest in Squall. I can give examples if you want.


*Some of the events after disc 1 had no hinting to in disc 1.
They all had hinting - they where just done in a way so that they are noticed after you discover what they where hinting to. Again, I can give examples.


The only thing in the game I can think of that doesnt, 100% confirm this theory for me is when Irvine says on the train to Deiling, "Maybe its Fate". after "re-meeting" with Selphie.

There where also plenty of other scenes like that.


Magnificent Theory by the author though.
It was an interesting theory, it's just I can see too many hints against it. Nice work by the author though, although he has a bit of an attitude problem I think - he clearly hates the romantic side of the game, (see his coments on Eyes On Me...)

[Iceglow]

Ok, the article was a pile of steaming bull.....lets move on quickly.

Heres a logical explanation for the whole ending sequence where Squall gets lost onwards:

At one point in disc 3, just prior to the time compression activation if I remember correctly there is a warning given to the party to remember who they are otherwise they may not make it back from time compression.

Squall has never been the most sure of who he is since he met Rinoa. She changed him, shook his world up like a snow globe he's confused and he's been through a damn lot recently: Day one, goes in to battle in Dollet, Day 2 he's sent to Timber call it Day 3 he's sent in to assassinate the sorceress Edea and fails, call it a few more days, maybe a week before he is interrogated (he may have spent a lot of time in the prison recovering from his injury, we assume he was treated at least partially by magical means) About a day after he escapes, garden begins to move having made it back to Balamb and going through yet another big battle. 2 days floating at a randomly slow speed to reach FH, more battles plus garden festival which confuses him all the more. Due to the refit on garden we could possibly call that 2 weeks (though the game makes no point of these times, I could be wrong and it's still only like day 4) basically once you go through the story giving the events maybe a day or two depending on distances and events what make it hard to get there the storyline covers perhaps a month of solid war fighting for him he'd be weary, he's confused and he's all of a sudden alone as he always thought himself to be.

He loses himself in time compression because of the tired, confused and lone wolf status, he can't do everything alone he's realized this now and the idea of being alone is worse than the idea of having to put up with Zell worshipping him on his knees in what looked like a dodgy position. I'd get bent out of shape by that too.

Being lost in time compression he begins to forget himself, then a feather falls and he remembers something important and begins to remember Rinoa he doesn't appear to be calling her name merely calling out could be anything from "Hey biatch" to "help!" eventually he remembers her and she is looking for him between the two of them he gets found just as he's about to fail and she saves him. The weird blurry images going through the screen? Well thats Squall trying to remember, to make sense of everything it's when he either does or doesn't he gets swallowed by the white light. Personally I think he does but he only manages to put together the memory of the "I'll be here" discussion and thus goes there where Rinoa finds him.

[PuPu]

Squall's Dead - a theory of what really happens in Final Fantasy VIII (http://squallsdead.com/)


http://www.reactionface.com/index.php?q=/image/627.gif

This has got to be the worst piece of fanfiction I've ever read. 99% of everything that's written there relies on "it's all just a dream," which can't be proven in the first place.

[Raistlin]

The only actual evidence the article cites is the beginning of disc 2, when Squall wakes up and his previous injury is never mentioned again. Beyond that, the whole "story is like an egoistic fantasy" thing is better explained by the game having an annoying story. He basically concedes all this in the last part:


The truth is, I don’t think there is a substantial amount of evidence to conclude whether or not the writers intended for the audience to interpret the game in this fashion. I choose to believe that this is how the game was intended to be understood because, to me, the game makes no sense otherwise. Everything that happens to the characters after the first disc is retarded.

[Vyk]

I'm surprised The Waking Life was never mentioned (I think that's what it was called). Its a movie that, from what I've heard, deals with exactly that kind of story. Living a fictional life in your head right before you die

Random trivia

[The Last Oath]

Iceglow just bombed this theory out the window

[Jiro]

You should look back at some of the theories in this forum. They are fun to read :p

These theories are all over the internet. :onoes: some of them are very fun

And I thought we were unique!

This theory is pretty insane but I enjoyed it. It has less solid evidence than half the other ones so I think we can put this in the "haha right" pile.

[BardTard]

Hm. Interesting.
Now what to do with the R=U theory... Well, it still works, I suppose.

That was really interesting to read!

[Iceglow]

Iceglow just bombed this theory out the window

I do my best :) silly theories need bombing, we all remember what my bomb on the whole R = U theory was after all it got a ciddie.

[Rad Bromance]

Ok, the article was a pile of steaming bull.....lets move on quickly.

Heres a logical explanation for the whole ending sequence where Squall gets lost onwards:

At one point in disc 3, just prior to the time compression activation if I remember correctly there is a warning given to the party to remember who they are otherwise they may not make it back from time compression.

Squall has never been the most sure of who he is since he met Rinoa. She changed him, shook his world up like a snow globe he's confused and he's been through a damn lot recently: Day one, goes in to battle in Dollet, Day 2 he's sent to Timber call it Day 3 he's sent in to assassinate the sorceress Edea and fails, call it a few more days, maybe a week before he is interrogated (he may have spent a lot of time in the prison recovering from his injury, we assume he was treated at least partially by magical means) About a day after he escapes, garden begins to move having made it back to Balamb and going through yet another big battle. 2 days floating at a randomly slow speed to reach FH, more battles plus garden festival which confuses him all the more. Due to the refit on garden we could possibly call that 2 weeks (though the game makes no point of these times, I could be wrong and it's still only like day 4) basically once you go through the story giving the events maybe a day or two depending on distances and events what make it hard to get there the storyline covers perhaps a month of solid war fighting for him he'd be weary, he's confused and he's all of a sudden alone as he always thought himself to be.

He loses himself in time compression because of the tired, confused and lone wolf status, he can't do everything alone he's realized this now and the idea of being alone is worse than the idea of having to put up with Zell worshipping him on his knees in what looked like a dodgy position. I'd get bent out of shape by that too.

Being lost in time compression he begins to forget himself, then a feather falls and he remembers something important and begins to remember Rinoa he doesn't appear to be calling her name merely calling out could be anything from "Hey biatch" to "help!" eventually he remembers her and she is looking for him between the two of them he gets found just as he's about to fail and she saves him. The weird blurry images going through the screen? Well thats Squall trying to remember, to make sense of everything it's when he either does or doesn't he gets swallowed by the white light. Personally I think he does but he only manages to put together the memory of the "I'll be here" discussion and thus goes there where Rinoa finds him.
The Squall's Dead theory makes for a far more interesting story than this though...

[Vyk]

I'm just going to ignore facts and go with Squall's Dead anyway. Until someone explains why you can't see through Squall's chest. That always bothered me. And now I kinda feel closure. Don't take that away from me! Plus he was always a douche to Rinoa and then she just randomly started liking him? I get that girls tend to like guys who abuse them ;P (j/k) but that seemed so abrupt and forced. Much like a dream come true for an introverted socially awkward mamma's boy wanting the right girl to come along and help him learn to live. Also seemed very ... convenient, from that aspect

Squall's dead

[demondude]

http://squallsdead.com/endshot8.jpg

[hitman1984]

agreed with Iceglow even though i did alreayd read this theory a while back and it is interesting it completely overlooks every other piece of information you are given on the way, the ending when i first beat the game i looked and thought perhaps Squall is lost in limbo or it's just taking a long time for him to reach "his" time.

The game's story isn't hard to follow i think some people over complitcate it and read to much into the smallest little things, Squall was healed by Edea because at that time while pocessed under the sorceress's power she thought Squall knew the "meaning of SeeD" everything is explained so anyways yeah lol...

[Serapy]

The theory is good. Very detailed and entertaining.

However, I always have believed that Squall actually died at the ending.
Rinoa uses a holographic device (plot device) to visually display Squall for her own comfort, and to represent the happy ending as well.

Just like what one student did to Dr. Cid in the middle of the game. You thought Dr. Cid was real in that scene? Yeah ...

Squall has been darky throughout the whole game. All of that is completely changed when he's begun to smile for the first time, which takes place in a two seconds scene. This is not right.

Maybe Rinoa's holographic device fails at some point into the future. So, she gets very mad and begins to travel back into the past and then start blaming everything that have brought Squall to his death.

[Flying Arrow]

One thing no one's mentioned is that assuming the theory is true, the plot itself still goes completely off the rails about half way in. Dream or not, FF8's second half is still :bou::bou::bou::bou:tily plotted. It might make more "sense" as a dream, but it's still written and characterized terribly.

My official opinion: It's interesting as an interpretation (I'm always interested in that kind of radical thinking for any piece of fiction), but not as an excuse for the game's shoddy storytelling.

[Yeargdribble]

I'm not sure about this, but it is interesting conjecture and at least the author admits himself that it may not be the original intent of the authors, but I think many of his pieces do fit well, just like the Rinoa=Ultimecia theory.

I have always been bothered by the icicle thing. I could easily write it off as "oh someone just cured him," but what screws this up for me personally is his own incredulousness about lacking a wound. Squall makes note of the fact that it doesn't make sense, so even if some crazy JRPG world, the character himself is saying, this shouldn't be. It's odd that this is never explained. Someone easily could've at least mentioned why he wasn't dead in passing later, but this never happens.


Oh... and damn you people. It seems like every day I'm straying more and more outside EoEO.

[MJN SEIFER]

I personally found FFVIIIs story telling to be one of the best - the whole thing really spoke to me, but each to their own.

[cloud21zidane16]

A very interesting and fun theory. Even if their completely wrong I always enjoy looking at the game from someone elses point of view.

[Cyric]

Wow, somebody's enjoying their philosophy and religious sciences classes. Well done interpretation though.

[line_genrou]

That's a long ass dream Squall was having while dying and falling from that room,whatever he was at when Edea stabbed him.

Interesting how he/she just ignored the ending.
How about the party then? So Rinoa was talking to Squall's ghost? And why is Selphie and Irvine filming them? Maybe they just wanted to make fun of Rinoa kissing the invisible.

Meh.I prefer R=U theory.:love:

[Eaglegun]

As cool as this theory sounds (it could make a good game of it's own) I'm going to stick with the negative argument. There is nothing aside from speculation to assert this claim, and if it were true one would expect the ending to reveal it.

Regarding Rinoa being only interested in Seifer:
She states on the forest owl's train that she attended the ball to plead with Cid for a contract. Furthermore Seifer wouldn't have been at the dance as he was being disciplined. When she says that Seifer introduced her to Cid, it was likely before the game took place in order for her to have attended the party. At the dance she catches a glimpse of Cid before leaving Squall. My point her is that she wasn't looking for Seifer at the party, and that she ditched Squall only because she had an agenda to accomplish with Cid.

The fact that she doesn't show much affection toward Squall in disc one when compared with the other discs, is more likely related to having just met him. The fact that Rinoa shows no more affection to Seifer after disc one can be attributed to Seifer becoming their enemy.

[nik0tine]

Squall's Dead - a theory of what really happens in Final Fantasy VIII (http://squallsdead.com/)

This, at least, is a much more reasonable 'theory' than R=U. I've always felt like the lack of an explanation for squalls wound at the end of disk 1 was about the lamest plot hole I've ever encountered. This also explains some bizarre stuff, like why Squall and co. wind up fighting the physical manifestation of his freaking necklace at the end of the game.

So, what think you all?

[Loony BoB]

I think either:

1. The wound was non-fatal and someone repaired it.
2. The magic used on Squall was imagery.
3. The magic used on Squall had a magical property that allowed it to not actually damage tissue, but strike through it in a magical sense, not injuring skin but causing Squall to black out.

Also, considering the amount of times the guy has been toasted, spiked etc. in battles, a lack of wound is hardly a surprise.

I also disagree about this being better than R=U, although it is certainly a hell of a lot fresher an idea.

As for weird things happening - it's a Final Fantasy game. Not Oblivion. I mean, come on - in other FF games, it's a hell of a lot weirder than FFVIII ever gets remotely close to. While I like how games can generate theories such as these, I don't believe them. It's a bit like fanfiction to me.

[CimminyCricket]

I've seen this brought up once or twice before, but I've never been able to decide which theory I like more R=U or Squall's dead. Personally, every time that I've played the game I've never tried to look past what I'm given. I don't want to try and see something that's not there and critique it. They've given me a story and it's up to me to choose to enjoy it. I always viewed Squall's wound at the end of disk one the same way I've viewed fighting every boss: they have HP and Squall has to have HP too. He's not dead, it was just a good shot. Or hell, maybe he did die but they used a Phoenix down on him so they could get information out of him.

[Rantz]

We already had a topic on this theory (http://forums.eyesonff.com/final-fantasy-viii/129836-squalls-dead-spoilers.html). I don't mind a new one about it as that one is pretty old, just thought I'd drop it here if you're interested in more opinions.

And yeah, I never saw the ice magic scene as something physical, but rather a dramatical FMV version of her limit break, being purely magical in nature.

[MJN SEIFER]

No offence to the OP, but if that articles the one I think it is, I can't read it, because it's obviously written by an FFVIII hater.

I will respond to this by saying, I always thought it was obvious that Edea cured Squall because she still needed to get the information she needed. It's one of those things that doesn't need explaining.

[Mirage]

The article explains why "needing squall for interrogation" is a poor explanation to his wound being gone.

The article is not hating on the game. I suggest you actually read it before commenting.

Personally, I am not convinced, but it doesn't seem as far fetched as R=U theories generally are. I might have to "sleep on it", or perhaps play the game again.

[Pumpkin]

I can't play the game the same way anymore O.O

Also, they OBVIOUSLY introduced the Moombas because the Moombas are AWESOME

and they make me go awwwww when they hop around saying Laguna

[Skyblade]

Apparently Squall’s healthy and good-to-go. It is never again referenced directly in the entire game, nor is it ever explained what happened to his wound or how he survived.

Usually, that means that they feel something was self encapsulated and needed no further work. Just like it is never referenced how Tidus and company got to Bikanel from the bottom of Lake Macalania. It's just a scene change. An excuse for you to lose and get captured.

Guys, Square does not tend to be subtle about this sort of thing. Remember Aeris? Remember Galuf? How about Tellah? Heck, even minor characters have a tendency to have played up deaths. Do General Leo or President Shinra ring any bells?

When people die, the player knows. That's the whole point. Death in a story exists to serve the story or provide emotional impact. That's why you don't hide it. Take a look at Chrono Trigger. When Crono dies, you know it. There is no subtlety about it, or anything at all to make you think anything else happens. He dies, and has to be brought back.

If Squall had died, there would be some reference to it somewhere in the game. Period.

[MJN SEIFER]

The article is not hating on the game. I suggest you actually read it before commenting.

Then it's hating on the Squall/Rinoa paring. I remember it did something like that when I read it the last time.

I had a quick glance at it on your sugestion, but I couldn't do it. If the article wasn't so hostile, I'd be able to read it, even if I don't agree to the theory (which I don't) - there's too many things in the game to proove that Squall's alive. At least with FE's theories there's some evidence that they might be true, even if you know they're not.

The article states that Rinoa never shows Squall any affection, when clearly she does.

[Mirage]

It states the truth. She didn't show him much affection during the first disc.

The article does not say "rinoa doesn't like him for the rest of the game", but it says that the rest of the game it might just be a gigantic hallucination, so any affection she shows is just in his head.

But you would have known this if you read the stuff :p.

[MJN SEIFER]

It states the truth. She didn't show him much affection during the first disc.
.

I think she did...

You need to read between the lines with it sometimes, they at the "I'm interested in you, but I get around it by fighting with you stage". The passion they showed eachother during the dance was very telling, and they just went with eachother, and I could just see they were at least attracted to eachother as early as disk one.

EDIT: I may read it again when I feel ready. I also remember it hated on Eyes on Me, which is an important song to me, for a reason - I just get sentimental when people hate on things that mean something to me, even though I get everyone's allowed to have an opinion, but if it has a sentimental meaning to me I take it more personally...

[Jiro]

I enjoy reading that article because there are some points that I can agree with. I don't agree with it but it's good fun :p

[Jessweeee♪]

MJN SEIFER, I disagree that the two writers of this theory are FFVIII haters. I think they were merely disappointed with a few things story-wise and found a way to make it more enjoyable. A "hater" wouldn't make such an effort. Haters hate! They're more like "this is sort of okay, but hey, what if it was actually really cool, wouldn't that be neat?" when a hater would just complain about the game occasionally while mostly ignoring its existence. These two obviously found a lot of enjoyment in this game, even if they perceive it as flawed. As an optimist I have nothing but the utmost respect for people that can make their own happiness from something simple!

[Haha_YouAint]

He also stated that the Laguna flashbacks weren't explained. I thought somewhere in the game they said Ellone caused those? Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for Rinoa not liking Squall in disc one, I could see that she liked him. That's why she got on my damn nerves. They were like picking at each other throughout the whole disc one. The same way kids do when they like each other.

[Jiro]

Merged these threads to save time and effort :p Make sure you don't revive old threads, Haha_YouAint, especially if there's a recent one on the same topic :jess:

[Skyblade]

You cannot have a plot twist without actually including the twist. There are very few writers out there who rely on deep, layered meanings that the average person will never understand.

Square is not that subtle. They really aren't. The entire reason they released the Ultimanias (well, aside from the money aspect) was to explain everything that turned out to be too subtle for the average player to grasp. They are not the sort to hide their meaning that way.

Had Squall died, they would have let us know. They would have hinted at it somewhere. You get no impact from a character death if you can't even tell they died. It was a cliffhanger ending to the disc, that's all.

[Pumpkin]

Just to comment on Rinoa not showing Squall any affection:

The man I have been with for (just short of) 5 years now, I did not like AT ALL when I first met him. I thought he was immature and irritating. AND I was with another man when I met him (sound familiar?) After spending time with him, I fell in love. Feelings change. That's why I personally believe that 8 had one of the more realistic love stories (excluding the sorceress and space thing...). I don't think that's an argument for him being dead and dreaming.

[champagne supernova]

Just to comment on Rinoa not showing Squall any affection:

The man I have been with for (just short of) 5 years now, I did not like AT ALL when I first met him. I thought he was immature and irritating. AND I was with another man when I met him (sound familiar?) After spending time with him, I fell in love. Feelings change. That's why I personally believe that 8 had one of the more realistic love stories (excluding the sorceress and space thing...). I don't think that's an argument for him being dead and dreaming.

And the girl I'm with (and my ex as well, strangely) spends most her time picking away at me. Not in a serious way - it's just a dynamic. Squall and Rinoa is about as unlikely as most romantic events.

[MJN SEIFER]

Just to comment on Rinoa not showing Squall any affection:

The man I have been with for (just short of) 5 years now, I did not like AT ALL when I first met him. I thought he was immature and irritating. AND I was with another man when I met him (sound familiar?) After spending time with him, I fell in love. Feelings change. That's why I personally believe that 8 had one of the more realistic love stories (excluding the sorceress and space thing...). I don't think that's an argument for him being dead and dreaming.

And the girl I'm with (and my ex as well, strangely) spends most her time picking away at me. Not in a serious way - it's just a dynamic. Squall and Rinoa is about as unlikely as most romantic events.

Which in turn makes them 100% likley - genius!

[rinoasknight]

wow, its such a good theroy when you look at it ever point its hard to argue against it. I read lots of theroys but none make as much sense as this one. I'm find it hard to really say anything else but I'll re-play the game with this in mind .

[NyQuil]

So if Squall is dead why is he in the scene on the Garden right before the words, "The End?"


He also stated that the Laguna flashbacks weren't explained. I thought somewhere in the game they said Ellone caused those? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ellone says she is responsible for those as she was try to change the past.

[xXsarahXx]

I love theories like this, it was a great read so credit to the person who wrote it definitely.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to these things, game's like ff8 are subjective, there are certain events and meanings that will be taken a different way by each and every person.
That is what makes the Final Fantasy fanbase, in specific, so fantastic. Even after all these years, there are people that put great effort into analysing things which I think is awesome!

In short, My opinion is that of Jiro's. There are many points that I look at and make sense to me personally but im not sure on the entire theory.

Keep the theories coming though!

[Jessweeee♪]

I think more specifically they meant that Ellone's ability to give them those flashbacks was not explained. But either way if you want to subscribe to the theory you can just write it off as "Squall died so all the explanation we'll ever get is what his subconscious tried to make sense of." A little cheap maybe, but so is some of the canon they're working with xD

[SoulTaker*]

You mean a 16 year old Girl THINKS she's in love, then a year later isnt in love? Do tell.

[squoll]

Ok, this theory is really, really silly. It doesn't answer any questions, and only leaves every question in the game unanswered. That alone should be proof enough that it is not a good theory, but, I took the time to disprove it.

Like other people here, I thought there was no way to actually disprove it, though. However, when looking at the very premise of it, I noticed that the weak point is the actual death of Squall.

Here are two screenshots of the opening of the game, the Squall/Seifer fight. This happens in disc one, and it's not a flashback, dream, or anything. It happens before you are able to control squall, and immediatly afterwards you wake up in the nursery, with a cool looking scar on your face. Point is, this fight happened, and it's not a dream or hallucination according to the Squall's dead theory.


http://i.imgur.com/7TzqE.png
http://i.imgur.com/mMXpG.png


Look at that. Blood. Lots of it. Blood on the floor, and on Squall's face. Unlike Aeris' death, where Sephiroth's blade is clean, and Aeris herself is clean when Sephs takes out the sword from her, FF8 isn't afraid to show blood. The original FMV is here

‪FF8 Squall Vs. Seifer‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en8ZW8yQCbc)

But Youtube links to game videos are fickle, so I decided to put screenshots instead.

The point is, when you get cut in FF8, you bleed, and you get a wound.



Now, the main idea behind this theory is that, from the start of disc 2, Squall is dying. Here's a quote from when you wake up in the prison after the Edea attacked you with the ice shards.


‘(...Where am I? I...challenged Edea... My wound...? No wound...? How...? The Galbadian soldiers... ...We were surrounded. He was there... Seifer, leering down at me.) "Damn you, Seifer!"’

So, let's see the FMV where Squall gets impaled by those ice spears.

http://i.imgur.com/bZ56p.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pE9cZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XfrsQ.jpg

No blood on the spear.
No blood on the floor.
No blood on Squall's clothes.

Again, here's the FMV

‪Final Fantasy VIII - Edea Strikes Squall with Ice Magic‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtnnWfpWJGo)

So, the answer to Squall's starting question in disc 2 is:

There are no wounds because there was no blood. There was no blood because those were magic icicles that don't really kill people, just make them unconscious, like all those ice spells you drew from monsters all time.

In one FMV you get a little cut in your forehead, Squall, and you bleed like a mothersmurfer. When you got impaled through your chest? And probably compromised your lungs, heart, or maybe stomach? Nothing. The conclusion is that you weren't really impaled with something palpable. (do note that only one icicle is seen impaling Squall, even when Edea shoot several. The others maybe missed, or maybe went through Squall other organs).

So, no, Squall is not dead from disc 2 forward.

QED

[Jessweeee♪]

Well duh. Of course he isn't dead. Nobody thinks the theory is canon. It's just for fun xD

[fire_of_avalon]

Squall takes the ice spear hit to the shoulder. He'll probably never swing a gunblade the same way again but with proper medical attention he wouldn't have died.

Besides the theme of FF8 is creepy cross-generational love.

[Kaliptus]

Like other people here, I thought there was no way to actually disprove it, though. However, when looking at the very premise of it, I noticed that the weak point is the actual death of Squall.

Here are two screenshots of the opening of the game, the Squall/Seifer fight. This happens in disc one, and it's not a flashback, dream, or anything. It happens before you are able to control squall, and immediatly afterwards you wake up in the nursery, with a cool looking scar on your face. Point is, this fight happened, and it's not a dream or hallucination according to the Squall's dead theory.

OK, I just read the whole theory and was reading some responses to it in different places. I read this one and it's making me want to flip tables (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ so I'm just gonna have to reply. WTF dude? Of course that fight happened, it was right in the beginning of the game! Disc 1! The theory states he dies in the END of disc 1, not the beginning! :sweatdrop Please tell me where it says in squallsdead.com where that fight is a hallucination...



There are no wounds because there was no blood. There was no blood because those were magic icicles that don't really kill people, just make them unconscious, like all those ice spells you drew from monsters all time.

In one FMV you get a little cut in your forehead, Squall, and you bleed like a mothersmurfer. When you got impaled through your chest? And probably compromised your lungs, heart, or maybe stomach? Nothing. The conclusion is that you weren't really impaled with something palpable. (do note that only one icicle is seen impaling Squall, even when Edea shoot several. The others maybe missed, or maybe went through Squall other organs).

So, no, Squall is not dead from disc 2 forward.

Magic icicles that don't really kill people? What she used was not just a simple ice spell but her limit break. If that wasn't intended to kill I don't know what that was because it definitely didn't mean to tickle. I sure wish I could stack on Ice Strike. :D

Here's her in-game limit break to support my argument:

Final Fantasy 8 Limit Breaks - Ice Strike - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8dfaz5Vl6k)

You make a point where it actually doesn't seem to "hurt" Squall since there was no blood in it. Thing is, the game is over a decade old and adding those "flashy" effects to CGs wasn't as easy as it is today, not sure if it was even possible given the technical limitations too. Also, I'm pretty sure Square wanted to keep the T rating, hehe.

Now for my 2 cents about this whole theory...
I find it very very amusing. I was reading this at work and my mind was blown so much I could not get work done for the rest of the day. When I played this as a kid back in the late 90s I never really understood disc 3, and I always seemed to take a huge liking to the first 2 discs of the game, mainly disc 1. I played it again a few years ago and while I could make a lot more sense of the game, I still pondered why the freaking hell the plot goes apetit in disc 3. It feels like the scale of "crazyness" keeps adding up until disc 4. I still remember that part where the time gets compressed and things start melting, kinda of feels like a bad trip of sorts haha. :p

When I read that I was like..."holy tit this guy thinks like me!" but I could never imagine that Squall died in disc 1 and that's why it blew my mind (because it made a lot of sense too). So far I have not yet read a good counter-argument to it, with the exception it might not be what the creators actually intended and that Square is known for the cold hard facts, i.e: a character dies and that's it, we show you them dying. That was already discussed in this thread I believe, and I agree with that. Or that it might just be a really really crappy plot and we need to make cool theories to make it look good :p. But hey! Who knows right? I never knew the void-faced Squall was there and that was smurfing scary.

PS: Sorry for reviving a relatively old thread...saw the last reply was in august.

[Jessweeee♪]

We're more lenient about reviving old threads for the Final Fantasy related forums. This thread is still fresh :up: