(Chapters 3 & 4 thread) Paradigms? Crystariums?! What the hell is all this.

[Psychotic]

I figure we may as well carry on the seperate threads for chapters. I've graduated to Chapter 3. Hurrah for me!

Generated me some Paradigms! I like Delta Attack (Com/Sen/Rav) and Diversity (Com/Rav/Med) with Lightning, Snow and Vanille in these roles currently.

Speaking of Vanille, I still have no idea why the hell she got involved in all of this.

So, Ragnarok. What's the betting that this guy will be the final boss? Wait, no, he'll be the boss before the final boss, the final boss will be that guy with the ridiculous blue hair from Team NORA. (it's cool this is just speculation I'm not spoilin' nothin'!)

Also dayumn, that frozen lake is purdy.

[Dignified Pauper]

frozen lake is very pretty.

Also... EIDOLONS!

[Sephiroth]

So, Ragnarok. What's the betting that this guy will be the final boss?

That's mean. After all I already know the correct answer of who the villain and the final boss is.

Vanille's and Fang's story will be revealed later.

[Madame Adequate]

Two things:

Oh hi Macalania, it's been awhile. How are you doing?

Needs a :Lightningbert: imho after the look she gave Hope.

[Psychotic]

We do not shake the slippery tube. We cool on this? We do not shake the slippery tube.

Also, I died for the first time :(

[Lightening]

Stupid scorpion has given me two game overs so far. :mad2:

[Dignified Pauper]

Psy: please label next thread as such:

(Chapters 5 & 6 thread) Eidolons and Landfills Galore!

[Lightening]

Eidolons might be a little semi-spoilerish to go in a thread title? idk

[Psychotic]

Psy: please label next thread as such:

(Chapters 5 & 6 thread) Eidolons and Landfills Galore!You can make it yourself if you want, dude. I haven't got that far yet so go right ahead.

[Rye]

Hahahaha Frocobo Nudity Censorship for great justice.

[Chloe.]

Everything is so pretty, I just spend most of the time looking at it all in awe. :p

Also, I really like the Paradigm system and the whole Crystariums thing. It was all a bit strange at first but I got used to it quickly.

[Lightening]

Yes, I like the system too. it's like a mix of the sphere grid and the job system

[Madame Adequate]

Jess just walked around a fight.

I mean... I... just... WHAT?!

But yeah I died in that very one so :monster: These ones where they're fighting each other are pretty tough if they decide you look tastier than anything else they're fighting.

[Psychotic]

I think I am now done with Chapter 3.

I think the group dynamic suffered with Snow staying behind. It was neat to have a guy who was really not liked - you don't often get party members in an FF game openly beating the crap out of each other!

I seriously want to know what the hell Vanille's damage is. That girl is honest-to-god insane. She has to be hopped up on something!

Not liking Fang so far.

[Rye]

The story is really hard to follow, but I'm lovign the game!

[G13]

I have a feeling I'm gonna be the last one on this message board to beat this game.

Have you been reading the Datalog entries Rye? I was a bit confused about it all until I read all the entries I had gotten up to chapter 3. Makes a bit more sense now.

So far this game is very reminiscent of FFVII.

[Rye]

The Datalogs helped a lot - I read them since posting before. I'm still a little puzzled, but I think that's how it's supposed to be as you find out more through backstory and stuff. :greenie:

[G13]

Yeah that whole Cocoon being a shell thing really has me puzzled. Do they live on the inside or the outside?:confused:

[Madame Adequate]

The inside. I figured that was the case to begin with, or that it was like the world in Aion, and looking up at the sky to see cities facing down at me confirmed it. Think of it like a Dyson Sphere (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Dyson_Sphere_Diagram-es.svg/600px-Dyson_Sphere_Diagram-es.svg.png), but replace Sol with Phoenix :p

[Psychotic]

METAL.....GEAR?!

[Raistlin]

The Datalogs helped a lot - I read them since posting before. I'm still a little puzzled, but I think that's how it's supposed to be as you find out more through backstory and stuff. :greenie:


The Datalogs help a lot. I've been reviewing them occasionally throughout the game for what it says about the Events; it not only says what happened, but sometimes even goes into more detail than something a character said.

It still feels like the story so far is all exposition, but it is starting to get interesting.

[Psychotic]

Now how the fuck do I beat (probably mid-to-late Chapter 4 spoilers but not really that big of a spoiler) Odin?

I've had some success with Ravager-Medic switching between that and Ravager-Ravager but god damn. I swear I filled his Gestalt bar and hammered the relevant button and nothing happened. :colbert:

[Dignified Pauper]

yeah, you just need to focus on medic and ravager for that battle. Took me 4 tries.

[Madame Adequate]

Rye and I figured it out and got it on the second go. Basically you need two Paradigms. Medic-Medic and Ravager-Ravager. When he's doing anything at all, you want to be Medic-Medic. It won't build things up much but it will keep you alive. When he does his shield move, however, switch immediately and hit him with everything you've got until he starts putting you in danger.

[Rad Bromance]

Things have gotten a lot funner with paradigms. The battles keep getting more interesting.

And yes, the crystal lake is absolutely gorgeous. I'm still there at the moment. :D

[Lightening]

I'm a bit lost with the (very small mid chapter 4 spoiler) weapon remodeling part. is there any way to know what attributes you're applying to a weapon before you actually do it? or is this a trial and error sort of system?

[Raistlin]

I have no idea. I've just been pimping out my weapons with whatever I have.

[G13]

The inside.

I see. But does that mean falling through the Hanging Edge into the lowland lake Bresha means I'm on Pulse now? Or is that just the lowlands of Cocoon? Everything else I'm getting except this Cocoon/Pulse deal.

[Lightening]

Raistlin:

oh nevermind :) I think I answered my own question when I actually tried it out. Seems every item just gets transformed into EXP, but I read something about some items giving you a negative bonus. I haven't run into it yet, but hopefully there's some sort of warning before it happens.

[Raistlin]

Odin is badass.

[Shlup]

I'm not very far into chapter three yet, but I am totally into both the paradigm system and the crystarium thing. Love it.

[Raistlin]

The paradigm system seems like a dumbed-down gambit system to me. But at least it does keep at least the more difficult battles somewhat engaging.

[Freya]

I'm on chapter 4, the start of it. So far this game has been easy squeezy lemon peazy. I died once but that was due to a completely unrelated gaming incident I had a cat fall behind our piano o.o

Story is fun and the battle system is awesome.

I can't stand the whiny Hope. Hopefully he'll man up in the future.

[Shlup]

"Do not shake the slippery tube! We cool on this? Do not shake the slippery tube!"

Lol'd.

I like that the paradigm system is "dumbed down" then. I love that these battles are really fast paced, and I like being able to make my selections without really looking. I kicked that scorpion things ass, ftr. That bitch didn't even know what it felt like to be un-staggered.

I also love that Frocobo pops out and no one even blinks. I am so into random cuteness.

[Madame Adequate]

The inside.

I see. But does that mean falling through the Hanging Edge into the lowland lake Bresha means I'm on Pulse now? Or is that just the lowlands of Cocoon? Everything else I'm getting except this Cocoon/Pulse deal.

From what the game says I can see why you thought you went to Pulse, I did too. But nope, still inside Cocoon.


oh nevermind :) I think I answered my own question when I actually tried it out. Seems every item just gets transformed into EXP, but I read something about some items giving you a negative bonus. I haven't run into it yet, but hopefully there's some sort of warning before it happens.

I dunno if there will be, there certainly isn't when you get a positive thingy. One of our items is now up to 3x experience when we upgrade!


The paradigm system seems like a dumbed-down gambit system to me. But at least it does keep at least the more difficult battles somewhat engaging.

Yeah but gambit was pretty much quasi-programming and I honestly cba with it. This way you just change your paradigm and they act appropriately. It's like gambits, but without the boredom.


I can't stand the whiny Hope. Hopefully he'll man up in the future.

Hahaha whiny? Did you pay attention to what happened to him? The kid's had like, the worst day ever. And he's fourteen. Most people would be doing a lot worse than he is.


I also love that Frocobo pops out and no one even blinks. I am so into random cuteness.

I also love how nobody bats an eyelid, it is hilarious. Also the datalog entry on Frocobo is lulz.

[Rye]

I want to wrap Hope up in a small blanket and mother him. I feel so bad for the kid!

Also; when you're using Odin and stuff, how they HELL are you supposed to use his special moves? Once it comes on it's a really crazy menu with a time bar and moves and I had no time to look at it. I need a tutorial for that, FFXIII!

[Psychotic]

Actually I like paradigms a lot better than the Gambit system in that you have to change them all the time to get the best results. It's forever changing rather than static, if that makes sense.

Also, I'm with Kaycee. fuck Hope. :colbert:

[Rye]

But he's only 14 and his Mom died and everyone is MEAN TO HIM and they leave him behind in a rubble heap. ;______;

[Psychotic]

Those are all very good points, but he has stupid hair. Now, if he had a 'fro like Sazh...

[Rye]

Hahahah.

I think his hair reminds me of an eskimo. So I not only think of him as innocent and like a kicked puppy, but a kicked puppy eskimo, which makes me sadder.

I think we're about to finish Chapter 4, I'm not sure yet!!! I'm so excited!

[Raven Nox]

I'm somewhere in chapter 4, and I want to continue but I have the misfortune of having jury duty today. xD

Really like the game so far though. The Sazh/Vanille/Hope team was really fun because it was the first time you had to actually think about what you were doing and you couldn't just mash X. The Paradigm shifts are actually fun and the feel of the battle can change instantly and I love it.

And everything Sazh says is made of awesome. I agree with the chocobo thing as well. It always pops out at the oddest of times and no one even asks him why the hell it's even there. It's great. Hope is my favorite so far though. xD

[Lightening]

I'm somewhere in chapter 4, and I want to continue but I have the misfortune of having jury duty today. xD

Hee :D I can picture you trying to slap a guilty verdict across his face before noon just so you can get back to this magic game xD

[Croyles]

Pretty good game so far. Im on the Odin battle, and MAN is he tough!

Hope and Sazh are my favourite characters at the moment.

[Raistlin]

My main complaint after finishing chapter 4 is I have yet to do anything besides follow a narrow path.

The beginning of chapter 5 at least seems to suggest the plot will be picking up. Maybe I finally left the exposition phase!

[Dignified Pauper]

The game is still that narrow and I'm in chapter 9, Raist. This game isn't about exploration, it's about character development, plot, and battle.

[Psychotic]

Pretty good game so far. Im on the Odin battle, and MAN is he tough!The technique MILF gave earlier in the thread worked a treat for me.

[Raistlin]

I also love how nobody bats an eyelid, it is hilarious. Also the datalog entry on Frocobo is lulz.

I just read that and it's amazing.

Anyway, I've thought about Hope a bit more, and while I don't really like him, I don't think he's overly whiny.

[Rodney]

Loving the Crystarium System (though it's sometimes a pain to get so close to a crystal, only to stop short of it), loving the Paradigm Shift feature, and I'm loving the story. I'm actually loving all of the characters so far, a first since 12.

The one I probably like the least is Snow. Just seems pretty generic compared to anyone. Almost like 6's Sabin with a voice and a more present-day look. But my brother loves him because he thinks he backs up his talk.

Hmm. Let's see. Claims to be a hero, but fails utterly and miserably at saving a load of people from certain death, including the mother of one of his fellow party members. And he can't keep Serah safe, either. Right. Way to back up that talk.

Anyway, like someone else said, Hope's my favorite, then Vanille, then Lightning, then Sazh, then Snow. Haven't met Fang yet. Well . . . actually, I have, but she's not in my party.

And word to the Sazh/Vanille/Hope party. The game really worked me over. I don't think I got a single five-star rating in a battle.

Speaking of battles, I do love that, if you think you messed up a strategy, you can just restart it if you want and try again, or formulate a new strategy.

[Raistlin]

Oh, just so I don't appear to hate the game: so far I have been mildly impressed with the characters and story, and I am still hopeful about the battle system (it's been entertaining so far).

[Freya]

I like hope as a character to fight with but he just yeah his mom died boo hoo but vanille has to lead him everywhere. His mom just died in front of him and all he could do was just shut up around the man he thought let it happen. He can whine all he want but nothing happens until he does something.

After the odin battle his character might be manning up but really, he has stupid hair.

[G13]

Hope falls into despair.

I lol'd.

[Croyles]

BTW, can anyone tell me whats up with those "Bolster Blitz and Ruinga at head of attack queue when Ravager is present" auto-abilites?
Theres a few of those. I don't get what that means and I havn't noticed anything different...

[Shlup]

I like Hope's hair...

[Sephiroth]

I like Hope's hair...

I like Hope's Hair as well. But unfortunately he is just another silver-haired Final Fantasy character you have to like. But I do not really like him compared to the others. But during the final battle...there we all love him and his Protect, Shell, Haste, Brave, et cetera spells. But even before that they really are helpful.

It is just too bad Hope is the character with the lowest maximum Hit Points. Hit Points are really important in this Final Fantasy. You always have to be careful.

[Psychotic]

Hope basically has Tidus's hair dyed Sephiroth's colour.

[Dignified Pauper]

My party is consisting of Lightning, Fang, and Hope here in Chapter 9. GREAT Team.

[Goldenboko]

The game is still that narrow and I'm in chapter 9, Raist. This game isn't about exploration, it's about character development, plot, and battle.

So the opposite of FFXII? :p

Hope acted the most realistically thus far, which is probably why no one has liked him. I'd like him more if he was just plain freaking out instead of, 'I LURVE MAH MOMMEH!' but oh well, he appears to be redeeming himself as you can see definite character development (:eek:) as he and Lightening mad their way through the woods.

[Lightening]

Maybe there should be something in the first post of these threads that says where chapter 3 starts and where chapter 4 ends? I've already forgotten what happens at the end of chapter 4 :shobon: just so i don't go and spoil something from chapter 5

[Garnie]

i think i have just finished chap 4 or im at the end of it. So far not a bad game. Im slowly getting into the story line but im still a tad confused. I absolutely adore Sazh and Lightning. Snow sux...he really truly sux anus. >:\

[demondude]

I'm on chapter four. I love Sazh and Vanille isn't as annoying as people say. Xp Lightning kicks ass though.

[Del Murder]

I like how Paradigms give you more to do in battle, but it seems like that's the only thing you're doing. Odin was tough and took me a few tries, but my altering tactics came to nothing more than correctly timing Paradigm shifts. I hope that's not all there is to it. With summons now it should get more interesting. :D

Crystariums. I don't know how I feel about it. I like it better than sphere grid because the grid for each character is different. Commando Sazh is different than Commando Lightning, which gives some character differentiation. You get some choice on what you can upgrade but it's still a pretty much linear path for each job. Maybe it gets more branches later. Also I got so close to a second accessory slot for Hope and then he got switched out of my party. :(

The weapon upgrades are confusing but I think I got the hang of it. I hate this type of system though. I like finding new equipment in treasures or via quests, not making it myself. =/ At least the treasures aren't like FFXII's horrible system.

So far the story and characters are intriguing and reason enough to play. And I think that was the point. I'm enjoying myself.

[Moon Rabbits]

I'm liking it so far. Without the Datalog, the game is understandable - it was just made a LOT more clear after I read a few parts of the datalog.

I agree with Del about making weaponry and the battle system. Paradigm shifts are fun and all, but other than that all I am doing is "MASH X MASH X MASH X MASH X"

So the internet says this game has 50 - 60 hours of gameplay, but I'm on chapter four and have only clocked in about 8 hours or so (if that, idk, maybe I have 6?)... hmmm ?

[sr5punk]

yeah the games pretty sound and all, but i agree with you guys on the whole creating a weapons attributes with crappy drops? i dont see how a broken nail can upgrade my guns for sazh...but ok. My one question is where the hell is all the gil?? I have no drops for it from beats and very few from chests/orbs. i know i can sell my :bou::bou::bou::bou:, but i need it to upgrade my gear. not the best idea in my opinion. i am just about the complete chapter 4. did anyone else have trouble when your group only had sazh and vanille? it took me like 6 to 8 minutes to complete a battle. all the transformers were wailing away and i had to have vanille on medic to keep sazh from dying. i miss the old job classes. i know the new ones are the same, but there is no monk or ninja or any classic classes. and yes i am whining about the linear paths...i understand it builds a better story, and that by not having free roaming to level up characters without levels it is pointless, but i get no gratification in finding a chest/orb with a silver bracelett in it on a "hidden" path that makes me have to go back and follow the original path again because it ends right there. but a cool feature is how they have some of the creatures fighting each other. mkaes it more real world like instead of everything evil being on the same side. hahaha

[Sephiroth]

i am just about the complete chapter 4. did anyone else have trouble when your group only had sazh and vanille?

I had so much problems with the enemies of Chapter 4 in the japanese version. But you have to learn fast when you use your "Attacker - Blaster" or "Blaster - Blaster" combo do BREAK your enemies fast. Otherwise you could get some problems. Especially these machine-like guys like in chapter 4 are annoying. But normally you just have to use your Blasters and usually they get easy and fast in BREAK mode.

[Madame Adequate]

So the internet says this game has 50 - 60 hours of gameplay, but I'm on chapter four and have only clocked in about 8 hours or so (if that, idk, maybe I have 6?)... hmmm ?

Apparently the last few chapters are super long.

[joerevs300]

I think compared to a lot of FF'ers on this board, I entered this game with a much more open mind since I only played FFX for an hour, and FF X-2/11/12 not at all. So I'm "stuck in old school FF land" guy finally booting up FFXIII.

I absolutely had no idea what to expect from this game, but I got the hang of the battle system quick enough, it's the whole switching at the right time & risk/reward (heal at the right time, or die every time) flow of the Paradigm system that I am really impressed with. Currently, I just entered Chapter 5. I've died probably 6-7 times (the Bombs killed me a few, I died at one of the early bosses, and then just at other fights where I didn't heal in time).

As far as the Crystarium upgrade system, I REALLY like that your CP's are spread over all characters, which gives you a lot more freedom (i.e. you're not stuck upgrading with a character you don't like for hours b/c you need them later in the game). And I'm fairly certain in later chapters, those will branch out more and more where you have more choices to make.

Weapons upgrading...reminds me a little of the Star Ocean series. Again, I didn't play anything between FFIX and this so maybe it existed in a different form? I think it's a neater idea than just "equip the strongest weapon you come across" from other FF's. Or do some insane time run like in FFIX for Steiner's Excaliber II (is that even possible to do with a PS2/PS3?)

So far, I am really excited about this game, especially because I just saw my first FFIX reference in between Chapters 4 and 5! FFIX is my favorite FF game.

[sr5punk]

thanks sephiroth. i just got the hang of switching back and forth. hey did anyone else have problems using deceptisol? i cant seem to use it from the items menue. i can click on it, but it only wants to move it, not use it. whats up? and i still can't declasre a party leader? when can i do that?

[Sephiroth]

thanks sephiroth. i just got the hang of switching back and forth. hey did anyone else have problems using deceptisol? i cant seem to use it from the items menue. i can click on it, but it only wants to move it, not use it. whats up? and i still can't declasre a party leader? when can i do that?

-sol items can be used with the L 1 button if you are not in a battle. In the japanese version you can move while using the items. Unfortunately it has been changed. The character stops when you open this item menue.

Anyway, the Deceptisol is useless against bosses or other enemies with a cutscene before the battle or monsters like the Adamantoise. You cannot preemptive stike all your enemies. There is a reason the japanese name is "Su-ni-u-ku Su-mo-ku (Sneak Smoke)".

About the party members: You have to wait until they all meet in chapter 9.

[Crowseye]

Almost done with Chapter 4 I believe. My thoughts, observations, and opinions:

Lightning and Sazh still rock.

Vanille still lacking backstory and any indication as to what her prerogative is other than that she just wants to help people. I've been suspecting she's from Pulse since shortly after meeting her, which I suppose will be used to explain her apparent airheadedness.

The entire physics and geography of the whole Cocoon/Pulse thing are not well-explained. They can get away with this because they don't use a world map, but I've found it occasionally distracting when trying to figure out where the action is taking place relative to other places in the game.

I don't mind the Crystarium. The inability or inefficiency of selecting individual combat abilities in this game makes a high level of character customization unnecessary anyway. And it effectively, even if artificially, limits the character progression to keep it in line with the story. It's not how I typically like my RPGs, but for an interactive story experience like we've been getting so far it's fine.

One of the things I would change is the balance of the abilities and stat boosts. Because effective combat is based almost entirely on Paradigm shifting, spending the CP to get spells and combat abilities seems way too preferable to spending it on some measly stat boosts instead. Had they been more balanced, you could have created real short-term tradeoffs between being significantly better in one role vs. giving you more Paradigm flexibility.

The Paradigm system is, from a programming standpoint, dynamic selection of pre-defined AI scripts. The AI is selecting the abilities for you by executing the script you determined for each character. When you select a Paradigm, you are telling the game what script(s) to use. The role bonuses add additional tactical considerations.

I personally don't like that the execution of individual abilities is under the control of the AI, or that I am better off still spamming the Auto button for my party leader, but I think Paradigm "jobs" and "job" switching are the start of an interesting system that deserves some more exploration in other games.

I personally like the puzzle of matching up my characters' spells and abilities with my enemies' weaknesses, and this game takes that out of my hands (I select Ravager and the AI will take care of the rest :eep: ). I'm not happy with it overall, but I am glad they tried something that offered some relatively fresh ideas for RPG combat in the future.

[sr5punk]

I agree with you completely. its like there is no thought to the battle system. which i think makes sense for square; to sell more units to people that are put off by the name ff, but for classics players its sort of taking away from the nostalgia of you creating your character from head to toe. its like you are a conductor and leading the characters along, instead of being the character and writing the story. still fun though!


Almost done with Chapter 4 I believe. My thoughts, observations, and opinions:

Lightning and Sazh still rock.

Vanille still lacking backstory and any indication as to what her prerogative is other than that she just wants to help people. I've been suspecting she's from Pulse since shortly after meeting her, which I suppose will be used to explain her apparent airheadedness.

The entire physics and geography of the whole Cocoon/Pulse thing are not well-explained. They can get away with this because they don't use a world map, but I've found it occasionally distracting when trying to figure out where the action is taking place relative to other places in the game.

I don't mind the Crystarium. The inability or inefficiency of selecting individual combat abilities in this game makes a high level of character customization unnecessary anyway. And it effectively, even if artificially, limits the character progression to keep it in line with the story. It's not how I typically like my RPGs, but for an interactive story experience like we've been getting so far it's fine.

One of the things I would change is the balance of the abilities and stat boosts. Because effective combat is based almost entirely on Paradigm shifting, spending the CP to get spells and combat abilities seems way too preferable to spending it on some measly stat boosts instead. Had they been more balanced, you could have created real short-term tradeoffs between being significantly better in one role vs. giving you more Paradigm flexibility.

The Paradigm system is, from a programming standpoint, dynamic selection of pre-defined AI scripts. The AI is selecting the abilities for you by executing the script you determined for each character. When you select a Paradigm, you are telling the game what script(s) to use. The role bonuses add additional tactical considerations.

I personally don't like that the execution of individual abilities is under the control of the AI, or that I am better off still spamming the Auto button for my party leader, but I think Paradigm "jobs" and "job" switching are the start of an interesting system that deserves some more exploration in other games.

I personally like the puzzle of matching up my characters' spells and abilities with my enemies' weaknesses, and this game takes that out of my hands (I select Ravager and the AI will take care of the rest :eep: ). I'm not happy with it overall, but I am glad they tried something that offered some relatively fresh ideas for RPG combat in the future.

[Shlup]

I think Vanille is cute.

I agree that the story is pretty confusing at this point. Unlike FFX though, I think it gets less confusing.

I love the paradigms. In other FFs I'd never use buffs and stuff 'cause I'm like "dammit, I don't want to waste a turn on that," and I don't really like healing, so now I'm just like "swoop swoop" and things are taken care of for me. I am quick with the paradigms; love 'em.

And I love the crystarium. I just do. *shrug*

[Del Murder]

I wish they could have made it optional to have the AI control your characters, like it is for some of the DQ games. They could have had the exact same system except you control all your characters and the battles are a little slower paced and I would have liked it better.

I see some similarity between the paradigms and FFX-2's dress sphere system. Quite an underrated battle system in that game. In fact I think it was the best FF system of the modern era. Too bad it got wasted on a plot like FFX-2. In that game you can switch jobs at will to meet the parties need while still having full control of the action.

[Digital Phoenix]

Jess just walked around a fight.

I mean... I... just... WHAT?!

But yeah I died in that very one so :monster: These ones where they're fighting each other are pretty tough if they decide you look tastier than anything else they're fighting.

Weaken every enemy really far down, and then start killing them off. It's easier than eliminating one group first because then you will be their target.

[Shoeberto]

Odin was a bit of a pain, but eventually I started the battle off with Syn-Med, let Hope get all of his buffs in while Lightning kept them both alive, then went between Com-Rav and Com-Med until I could trigger his Gestalt. Like Shlup, in most FFs I seldom use buffs/debuffs, but they have been absolute life savers in this game. Syn-Med with Lightning and Hope is a great paradigm for boss battles.

Loving the story, the combat, the characters, just everything!

[eestlinc]

wow that is the toughest odin battle in the series, that I am aware of.

[Del Murder]

FFXI's Odin requires 18 people to beat. :p

[Shlup]

DOES NOT COUNT.

[sr5punk]

seriously odins a bitch!

[Shlup]

Yeah he took me a few tries. Like I knew what to do pretty quickly but pulling it off took some practice. Damn him! *shakes fist*

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm probably in the middle of chapter 4 right now. So far, I'm liking the Paradigm system as it really does feel like a streamlined version of FFX-2's Dressphere system (without its annoying cutscene transformation sequences) and XII's Gambit system. I do wish I had more control with the A.I. sets and I really wish I could switch my party leaders mid-battle. It definetly takes away more control than XII did but I'm actually really liking the system overall.

Crystarium system feels like a better version of the Sphere Grid system since you are basically going through multiple Grids to upgrade and you actually get control over what Paradigms to upgrade. So basically its the Sphere Grid system with actual real customization as opposed to the illusion of choice. I'm quite content. If I could change anything, I just wish the Paradigm shifts were named after the Job Classes.

This also brings me to my first major gripe with the game. Am I the only person here who can't fathom why it takes 4 chapters to introduce the Weapon customization system? This seriously should have been something introduced 10 minutes into the actual game. It would have actually give all those save points a purpose in the first couple of chapters, not to mention all the battle items you've been amassing. I've barely used the shops in this game so far but I finally unloaded all the loot I got from enemies. Its has no significance to the story so I can't really understand why it had to be introduced so late in the game.

I'm very sad Snow is gone cause he was definetly one of my stronger party members. He was also more amusing than the children. Lightning still feels utterly emotionless to me, she only seems to have two feelings: Anger and indifference. At least with Squall we got to see he had a more dynamic personality through his thoughts and his snarky comments. Lightning just stays quiet until she gets mad and punches Snow in the face. I've probably learned more about her feelings and inner turmoils from the Data Log than the actual story.

Sahz is still awesome and is easily the most interesting character, he's also the only character who has a secret motive and is able to actually hint to his true purposes with subtlety as opposed to a certain red head...

Speaking of Vanille, she has come across as a combination of Yuffie and Rikku, two characters I really can't stand. I actually thought I was going to like her but all she's really been doing up until this point is get on my nerves. Hope... well every time he shows up I want to punch him in the face. Its a shame he's so useful in battle. Basically, I'm having a really hard time feeling like he's 14, he comes across way younger and I can't understand why he simply can't scream at Snow. It gets really annoying. Not to mention he constantly jumps into despair at the wave of a hand, but unlike Sahz who says it with sarcasm, Hope just whines and yells. This is why kids shouldn't be part of saving the world :colbert:

The Crystal Lake is the first location that falls into my argument of why dungeon design shouldn't be a simply line. This place is gorgeous and I would have loved to be able to explore it but I'm stuck on my "road". I have finally turned off the mini-map so I can at least lie to myself and pretend the games areas have more going on than being pretty. It also forces me to be more aware of my surroundings so I don't miss treasure chests. The gateway area afterwards is more to my personal taste so it was nice to have an area that didn't feel so constricted. The Peaks are more of the same of the first few areas...

I've died a couple of times, mostly cause Lightning is pretty flimsy and the Shiva Sisters' stupid gauge wouldn't fill up. :mad2:

The combat so far has been the saving grace of the game as its fast and fun to use, even if it has a few minor problems. The story just feels a bit sluggish right now, I was hoping things would pick up once they all became l'Cie but I still feel like the plot is meandering and slowly building up to its actual objective and point. Its been fun at least.

[VeloZer0]

I have finally turned off the mini-map so I can at least lie to myself and pretend the games areas have more going on than being pretty. It also forces me to be more aware of my surroundings so I don't miss treasure chests.
Looks like we finally find some common ground :D I posted a thread about turning off the mini-map to better appreciate the scenery, but no one else seemed to approve. Of course I was saying that it is awesome that it is a straight line so that it affords me the ability to turn off the map, but lets focus on the positive now.


This also brings me to my first major gripe with the game. Am I the only person here who can't fathom why it takes 4 chapters to introduce the Weapon customization system?
You will be disappointed to learn it isn't a customization system at all, just a Money/Vendor Trash=>+Stats type dealie. You basically take your weapons from the beginning and upgrade them as you go along by selling everything else you pick up. Takes all the fun out of itemization in the game.


Lightning still feels utterly emotionless to me, she only seems to have two feelings: Anger and indifference.
Probably why I like her so much.


Hope... Its a shame he's so useful in battle. Basically, I'm having a really hard time feeling like he's 14, he comes across way younger and I can't understand why he simply can't scream at Snow.
I think through their portrayal in media people seem to think 14 year olds are a lot more mature than they actually are. I coach all the time and I can say that I find him acting very 'in-age'. Also keep in mind the 14 year olds vary as much as the rest of us grownups, in terms of emotional development they are all over the map, usually having much different 'ages' of development in each emotion.


well every time he shows up I want to punch him in the face.
Totally.


The story just feels a bit sluggish right now, I was hoping things would pick up once they all became l'Cie but I still feel like the plot is meandering and slowly building up to its actual objective and point.
I'm on Ch11, and if you are interested in actual plot as opposed to 'character development', well, if you don't have anything nice to say....

[Wolf Kanno]

Looks like we finally find some common ground :D I posted a thread about turning off the mini-map to better appreciate the scenery, but no one else seemed to approve. Of course I was saying that it is awesome that it is a straight line so that it affords me the ability to turn off the map, but lets focus on the positive now. that's actually where I got the idea from, unfortunately, I do need to turn it on occasionally cause several of the environments still feel like copy/paste deals so its easy to get turned around. I also forgot to mention that I don't particulary care for the games camera. :eep:


You will be disappointed to learn it isn't a customization system at all, just a Money/Vendor Trash=>+Stats type dealie. You basically take your weapons from the beginning and upgrade them as you go along by selling everything else you pick up. Takes all the fun out of itemization in the game.

Its an upgrade system at least and it is at least better than what I first imagined it was going to be like.


I think through their portrayal in media people seem to think 14 year olds are a lot more mature than they actually are. I coach all the time and I can say that I find him acting very 'in-age'. Also keep in mind the 14 year olds vary as much as the rest of us grownups, in terms of emotional development they are all over the map, usually having much different 'ages' of development in each emotion.

Well, I can't really stand the "whiny bitch" type of 14 year olds but when you complain that the kid whines, people love to point out he's a child. I pretty much feel like Lightning (in Chapter 6 now) and feel the kid needs to STFU and finally grow a pair. :colbert:

[NeoCracker]

It's a bit more then that for weapon customization.

There are a bunch of different options in the sense that you pick which weapon to level up, and each one has different attributes.

For example, with Snow I"m building up Power Circle to maximize his physical damage.

I picked this over his weapon with 'Glass Tiger' which has insane physical and magic output, but leaves his defenses low as sin.

Then LIghning has a weapon that is balance stat wise, ones that focus on magic or attack, one that empowers revive, and one that raises the rate she boosts the Chain Gauge. (WHich I refuse to use by default due to hatred of FF VIII. :p)

The one I'm using with Vanille more magic biased, but isnt' teh strongest in that area. Instead it has an ability on it that empowers her debuffs.

[VeloZer0]

Well, I can't really stand the "whiny bitch" type of 14 year olds but when you complain that the kid whines, people love to point out he's a child. I pretty much feel like Lightning (in Chapter 6 now) and feel the kid needs to STFU and finally grow a pair. :colbert:
My point was that he is an accurate 14 year old, not that he isn't annoying. What most people/developers fail to realize is that 14 year olds who are going through some emotional turmoil are not pleasant to be around.

I also hate how he is so hung up on Snow being responsible for his mother's death. I wouldn't place any blame on him, it was 100% her choice. If she hadn't shot that airship-thingy with the rocket they would probably all be dead, Hope included.

[Crowseye]

I also hate how he is so hung up on Snow being responsible for his mother's death. I wouldn't place any blame on him, it was 100% her choice. If she hadn't shot that airship-thingy with the rocket they would probably all be dead, Hope included.

Felt the same way.

I actually thought the in-game action in the first couple of chapters portrayed Hope as more "confused" than hateful, which would have been understandable given the shock one would feel having seen one's mother plummet to her death. Given the way Vanille seemed to want him to confront Snow, that actually seemed to reinforce the idea for me, as if she were sure that once they met, any misunderstandings would be cleared up.

It wasn't until reading the Datalog and getting to Chapter 3 and beyond where the irrational hatred was made obvious (not that Snow the lug didn't help that along by some inadvertently callous comments).

----

At any rate, society can have a significant influence in how quickly somebody grows up emotionally. Overall, Hope comes off to me as a stereotypical modern urban teen from a relatively well-to-do family with a father who is "away on business" much of the time. Had this been a more medieval setting where disease and warfare regularly killed off large segments of the population, he and others his age may have "grown up" faster.

Thinking back, as a teen I know I felt like I was far more mature than anybody gave me credit for, but...you see things a bit differently when you're looking on them from a different perspective. Generally speaking, in my experience, many teens are more like Hope than they'd realize or care to admit, at least until they are older.

[Wolf Kanno]

Anger is always irrational so I'm giving him that at least, I'm just annoyed cause Hope is basically redoing the story of Ken Amada from Persona 3. Ken was younger and still more likable. Yeah he was the cliche kid archetype that tries to act older than he really is but its not like he was a prodigy like most in the archetype. The death of his mother just forced him to grow up faster so he came off more mature.

I'm giving Hope the benefit of the doubt and will wait to see how things turned out but the kid has major expectations to surpass cause Ken's story in P3 was well done and ended with some of the stories most powerful moment for the characters. It really changed the tone of the game at that point whereas I seriously doubt Hope is going to be able to pull this off. Hope's already lost some points by being annoying for the first couple of hours. Basically the kid is trying to perform the same trick after a top class act so he's going have to try hard to find his own niche for me.

I guess this just all goes back to my problem with kid characters, I really don't like them and its hard to make them likable unless your into that cliche. I'd rather have a cast of semi-adults and not have to deal with these silly "coming of age" stories, or "lonely child prodigy" spiel that every RPG/Movie/Book/TV series likes to do. I need RPGs to ditch them as well as the "spunky girl" archetype cause they are equally as annoying at this point in time.

[VeloZer0]

I guess this just all goes back to my problem with kid characters, I really don't like them and its hard to make them likable unless your into that cliche. I'd rather have a cast of semi-adults and not have to deal with these silly "coming of age" stories, or "lonely child prodigy" spiel that every RPG/Movie/Book/TV series likes to do. I need RPGs to ditch them as well as the "spunky girl" archetype cause they are equally as annoying at this point in time.
Oh yeah. I've never really understood the Japanese obsession with having underage protagonists. I can think of so many Anime/Manga's that would be so much better if the characters were adults and I could take them seriously.
I would much rather have pure adults in the cast. You know, ones with experience fighting before the game started? I still find it hard to stomach watching Sazh fight alongside Lightning in battle.

[Wolf Kanno]

I disagree with Sahz, I find it hilarious to watch him fight. Brings back memories of BoF3. :p

[VeloZer0]

What I meat to say is I find it hard to take seriously that he could do anything but get in her way. From being so involved in sport/coaching the notion that someone could just pick up a weapon and compete on par with someone who has years of dedicated training is so fundamentally wrong it assaults the core of my being :)
Yeah, he looks funny when he fights. I am always amused by how when the camera pans in on him after a battle ends he has such a comically serious face/posture about him, then immediately switches to standing upright with a goofy smile.

[Wolf Kanno]

I would feel the same way if it wasn't for the fact he uses pistols. Guns don't require skill to be effective. It helps, but its not like he has to be a master marksman or gunslinger to take out baddies, especially when Lightning is jumping around and distracting them. If he used a melee weapon I would probably agree.

If I was going to wonder about anyone throwing off my suspension of disbelief its Hope and his Boomerang which mysteriously disappears into his pocket... :shifty:

[VeloZer0]

If I was going to wonder about anyone throwing off my suspension of disbelief its Hope and his Boomerang which mysteriously disappears into his pocket... :shifty:

Magic, duh....

[Wolf Kanno]

I had more dirty thoughts in mind. :eep:

[VeloZer0]

More on topic, I thought it was neat how Lightning actually had her weapon visible in the field/cutsceens in a perfectly practical and 'realistic' way.

[Sephiroth]

More on topic, I thought it was neat how Lightning actually had her weapon visible in the field/cutsceens in a perfectly practical and 'realistic' way.

Not like Cloud or Squall who just draw their swords with X-Death's help from the void.

[Crowseye]

More on topic, I thought it was neat how Lightning actually had her weapon visible in the field/cutsceens in a perfectly practical and 'realistic' way.

/agree

I've actually seen dev comments on other games lamenting on how "it's so hard programming and art-wise it's not worth the effort!!1" I personally think scabbards and such are almost always a nice touch in the few games that use them.

[theundeadhero]

I can't even tell when I complete a chapter other than how you earn a trophy :p I wish it had like a little Chapter X cutscene.

I am incredibly impressed with how the adults in this game act like adults. I would consider it the first FF to even attempt to pull it off and it works out very well.

The level system I consider overly simplistic. There's nothing really that great about it. You just spend your points and occasionally you come across a crystal that makes you better at that role.

I'm a master at shifting paradigms! I love doing it too. It's makes combat really fun, as enjoyable as FFX-2, which I agree had the best system in any other FF.

Odin was kinda hard but once I figured out what to do it was pretty easy, died once. What took me multiple tries was the monster at the end of chapter 5 but that is a story for another thread :p

The part where Sazh is looking up Vanille's skirt and the chocobo flies up in his way was awesome.

[Aerith's Knight]

Am I the only one that headdesked at the part where Vanille's tatoo's is on her upper thy?

I mean, seriously, dudes, with all that open skin you couldn't find a better spot? Why don't you just go right ahead and make it a tramp stamp.

[Wolf Kanno]

Wait til you see her use her summon... :eep:

[Hollycat]

Quistis, she did it, she is why all this stuff happened.