PDA

View Full Version : EoFF Elections 2010, Debate Thread!



Election Booth
04-07-2010, 03:26 AM
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd61/Seiken_Bushido/Personal/Random%20Locked%20Stuff/ForumElections.png

The Final Task! This election has been full of cut-throat rivalries. First in the beginning of the primaries the Zombie Party and The Apocalypse Party, whom were in fact doomed, thanks to the shambling horde of the Zombies. A new rivalry formed at the end of the Primaries and has continued into the General Elections. What better way for these two rivals to duke it out, then a debate between the two!

How will this work? Well, using those fancy elected Cabinet Candidates of course! Members of the Cabinet will be paired up and shall either post their stance on an EoFF issue or rebut the other party's argument! Culminating in a one on one confrontation between the two presidential candidates!

Parties will have 12 hours to come up with an argument on the issues provided and have one of the two Cabinet Candidates post it! Then the other party will have only 6 hours to do the same with a rebuttal for it! Note, don't discuss the issues in your election thread! (Some Lenancy will be given. Some.) You will be provided a SUPER SECRET FORUM, so the other party cannot spy on your discussions! Links to these forums will be sent to the party presidential candidates, who will then have to give the link to the rest of the party!

So, without further adieu, the first party to take a stance on an issue will be the Zombie Party. The Zombie Party will have to send their Official Mascot and Official Emissary to take a stance on the following topic...

EoFF and Pranks:

Pranks have been a long time tradition here at EoFF. However, the Pranks through the ages have been very controversial. From fake bannings, deaths, demotions, and mass quittings, Pranks have left some members with laughs and others with butthurt! How do you feel about EoFF's Pranking traditions? Should they continue? Or be eradicted?

You will have 12 hours from 5AM EST, giving you all a few hours to get those links shared, accounts made, and news of this task creation to reach members.

Dignified Pauper
04-07-2010, 03:33 AM
I totally wish I was still part of this. But, this will, great news, make.

Huckleberry Quin
04-07-2010, 04:13 AM
I think this should be made IMPORTANT. :D

Aerith's Knight
04-07-2010, 11:06 AM
I think my stance on this is quite clear, but is pretty long, and slightly graphic :p, so I'll put spoiler tags around it.




http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4586/81995913.png

If my feelings on how I think about pranks aren't clear by now, you're already a brainless zombie, and my work is done.

Mister Adequate
04-07-2010, 11:10 AM
I do not believe that Election Booth understands what a cabinet is :zombie:

Cuchulainn
04-07-2010, 07:47 PM
I do not believe that Election Booth understands what a cabinet is :zombie:

http://www.konteakifurniture.co.uk/images/granary_6drawer_glazed_cabinet.jpg

Mister Adequate
04-07-2010, 07:49 PM
His points are valid, but his manner is wooden.

Eh? EH?

... I'll see myself out.

Del Murder
04-07-2010, 11:10 PM
Am I supposed to do anything yet? :vader:

Cuchulainn
04-07-2010, 11:23 PM
Am I supposed to do anything yet? :vader:

yeah, shut up.

Del Murder
04-08-2010, 12:55 AM
*enforces Cuchulainn*

Cuchulainn
04-08-2010, 01:40 AM
*enforces Cuchulainn*

Buy me dinner first.

Election Booth
04-08-2010, 01:41 AM
Got busy today and therefore couldn't enforce what was suppose to happen. The Zombies were SUPPOSE to have their debate post ready by 5PM today. They do not! I'm giving them until 3PM tomorrow, or else.

G13
04-08-2010, 01:48 AM
Are we supposed to post the arguments here or do you get it from our forum?

Election Booth
04-08-2010, 01:52 AM
Arguments will be posted here by the cabinet members that are up to debate.

NorthernChaosGod
04-08-2010, 10:24 AM
All times are EST?

Jiro
04-08-2010, 10:50 AM
They should receive a strike. What else can you expect from a bunch of zombies? They are not fit to lead this forum.

Election Booth
04-08-2010, 12:21 PM
All times are EST?

Yes.

qwertysaur
04-08-2010, 03:19 PM
I had a Physics exam, Chinese exam, Differential Equations exam and Java exam in the past three days. :zombert:

Psychotic
04-08-2010, 03:48 PM
They should receive a strike. You can't beat us without having to go crying to Election Booth for "strikes", huh? D'awww. Diddums. I think I will leave the cute side of your brain. :zombie:

we're not posting anything for that reason actually. We think the 501st are so incompetent we're going to give them a helping hand!

Marshall Banana
04-08-2010, 05:07 PM
Speaking of incompetent, I noticed just now that the walrus of your avatar is supposed to be a zombie. It's not very obvious, still! Want me to help you out?

Psychotic
04-08-2010, 05:12 PM
My zombie walrus avatar is fantastic and probably the best avatar I've ever had :zombert:

Jessweeee♪
04-08-2010, 08:49 PM
I am the self-proclaimed Official Mascot of the super neat Zombie Party. Here is our stance on the issue:



The Zombie Party is of the opinion that pranks on Eyes on FF are bitchin'. They're a fun way to mix things up a little and cause wacky situations. However, not all pranks are appropriate for EoFF. Here are all the types of pranks that we feel are best kept off the forums:

- Pranks that smurfing suck.

Like, for example, Raistlin's recent prank. His grand scheme to destroy the staff was to pretend to post porn and get them to consider whether or not they should ban him. JOKE'S ON THEM, HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY POST IT!!!! In order to accomplish this goal, he spent countless hours typing out long, whiny debating posts, indistinguishable from the usual crap he spews, which were largely ignored. The effort he put in really doesn't match the payoff he got for it, and after his General Chat gloating thread, it all became a toe-curling and awkward affair.

For reference, THIS is Raistlin:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/swimsuit1.jpg

Just imagine this vile, sweaty man, cackling away to himself as he hammers out another post decrying the staff. Go on. Do it. And then tell me that utterly dire pranks like the one he pulled should be allowed. If you're still on the fence about this, let me just give you the quote that accompanies this photo:

"I tried to look hot/slutty cupping my perky boobs and giving a kissy face"

I rest my case.

Election Booth
04-08-2010, 09:17 PM
Wow, right in the nick of time. Okay, now the 501st Legion Party has to bring up their own Emissary and/or Mascot to rebut this post! You have 12 hours, giving you until 3AM EST!

Psychotic
04-08-2010, 09:25 PM
Have fun defending the undefendable. :monster:

Huckleberry Quin
04-08-2010, 11:18 PM
Ooohhhhh, so that's the infamous Raist pic. xD

NorthernChaosGod
04-09-2010, 12:45 AM
God. Fucking. Dammit.

I had been avoiding that picture! :colbert:

Psychotic
04-09-2010, 12:50 AM
And now your party has to argue about how great and wonderful he is. Yes, we are evil geniuses :bigsmile:

Jessweeee♪
04-09-2010, 01:29 AM
Hee hee.

Steve
04-09-2010, 01:32 AM
OH yes 501, argue how Raistlin makes your lives complete argue how you wish you could be JUST LIKE HIM....oh yeah baby.

G13
04-09-2010, 01:37 AM
Raistlin wasn't the topic for debate. ;)

Jiro
04-09-2010, 02:20 AM
Before our argument is lodged, I would like to share with you this heavily researched graph, put together by ace researcher and general all round badass I Don't Need A Blaster.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/final-andy/Graphhhh.jpg

qwertysaur
04-09-2010, 02:26 AM
The fake CK competition was glorious. :zombert:

Pheesh
04-09-2010, 05:05 AM
Ok, wow; sorry everybody, it’s just a little bit hard to rebut arguments when none are really made, but the 501st will do our best. From what we can gather in that horrible excuse for an argument, the Zombie Party seem to think that “pranks on Eyes on FF are bitchin’” and are trying to argue that they should be a part of the forums, unless they involve raistlin posing in his bikini.

We at the 501st think that with all the recent heart ache and stress that the latest run of pranks have caused that the Zombie Party wouldn’t be so quick to jump to the defence of malicious and hurtful pranks, many of which are little more than an inside joke done to a much larger scale. Although it is obvious that some pranks are completely harmless and can be a fun little event for the forum (examples being name and set changes), the majority of large scale pranks tend to cause more anger, stress and butt-hurt than humour



http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/eternal_essence/important-1.jpg
Exhibit A shows the temporary March spike in activity as users were forced to post in the name of a fake CK competition, before finally realising they'd been duped; causing wide spread butt-hurt, anger, and a general decline in enjoyment.

It’s all well and good for the members who are in on the joke (or suspect something is going on) to sit back and have a chuckle, but EoFF has a large community that expands every day, and a large number of the pranks that are done create a tumultuous forum environment, that can confuse and push away not only new members, but also long time members. In the latest pranks to occur (‘CK comp’ and ‘angry long posts by raistlin are angry and long’) most of the people on the forum were fed up with reading the thousands of lines worth of text that were being posted in the feedback forum, long before the prank was due to be revealed. Not only that, but the staff themselves have admitted that it was cruel to make the latter half of the ‘potential CKs’ do all that work (mountains of posts and threads, which actually served to annoy almost as many people as they amused).


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/eternal_essence/evidence.jpg
Exhibit B is a little diddy we at 501st HQ like to call ADMISSION OF GUILT!!

The latest pranks had many people angry during the time they were being done, and even during the aftermath. Mogi is but one example of a person who didn’t really see the ‘APRIL FOOLS GUYS, lololol’ side of the joke. We in the 501st legion have heard stories from some of our new recruits about how they were really quite confused about what was going on in the forum, and if we hadn’t given them neat matching uniforms and structure then they may not have stuck around for the long run. Also, let's not forget that in the latest prank the members of EoFF (a large grouping of which are under 18) were exposed to porn, all in the name of some personal vendetta that one member shared against the staff. If that isn't the epitome of a prank going to far, then what is?


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/eternal_essence/evidence2copy.jpg
Exhibit C: What the Shlup!? They are lying to us!!!

But the latest prank isn't the only time that these 'harmless jokes' have ended in problems. The lucky bags are an example of pranks that have caused rifts in the member base. In the most recent of these events one of the evil zombie members (RottingYuna89) turned on one of her own staff members and had him banned. Needless to say, hurt feelings and a large member rift ensued.

We’re not saying that the pranks aren’t funny for people, because as we said, there is a very large cross section at EoFF, and not everyone reacts the same way. But when we have staff and long time members warring with each other in the name of lulz, showing a divided front to new and old members alike, making dedicated posters jump through hoops for no reason, then we feel that you may as well just join the 501st...because the whole forum has obviously succumbed to the dark side already.

Jiro
04-09-2010, 05:37 AM
You can't argue with someone as brilliant as Imperial Essence.

Del Murder
04-09-2010, 05:38 AM
Why does everyone have that hideous avatar?

G13
04-09-2010, 05:45 AM
Because we've assimilated the RaistlinBikiniluvluv party. :jess:

Jiro
04-09-2010, 05:47 AM
And damn, we too sexy for our 'kini

Pheesh
04-09-2010, 05:52 AM
You'll also notice that our response was posted up well within the allocated time limit, no extensions needed for us.

All the while, we still manage to party hard in our 'kinis.

Bunny
04-09-2010, 05:53 AM
That's it, I'm fucking leaving. I hate you all.

Mo-Nercy
04-09-2010, 05:54 AM
O_o

* the face, not the person.

Del Murder
04-09-2010, 05:57 AM
I may have chosen the wrong horse to back here...

Mo-Nercy
04-09-2010, 06:01 AM
And I hope you 501st-ers realise you've ruined a perfectly good 'what's the above avatar thinking?' game in the Wonder Square.

Freya
04-09-2010, 06:05 AM
OH YOU GUIZE :p

Jiro
04-09-2010, 06:07 AM
I hope you all realise the gravity of our words now. A simple prank makes people feel angry and ostracised. :colbert:

Del Murder
04-09-2010, 06:14 AM
Hahaha, good show.

Mo-Nercy
04-09-2010, 06:17 AM
Whoa. That was deep. xD

Del Murder
04-09-2010, 06:18 AM
I thought that was perfectly done, although a little gross. Bravo!

NorthernChaosGod
04-09-2010, 06:22 AM
That's my fellow 501sters.

Jiro
04-09-2010, 06:26 AM
We go above and beyond the call of duty for the good of EoFF :colbert:

Mo-Nercy
04-09-2010, 06:26 AM
The Zombie party has their work cut out for them now. If they're going to want to illustrate their point to the level that the 501sters did, they should come up with an awesome prank that's genuinely lol.

Marshall Banana
04-09-2010, 10:28 AM
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/fofonda/pixel/usagi/b-usapati.gif

I Don't Need A Name
04-09-2010, 01:10 PM
Well done guys!

Pheesh
04-09-2010, 06:10 PM
Cool prank guys, if this doesn't show people how awesome pranks are then nothing will!

I Don't Need A Name
04-09-2010, 06:11 PM
This extra for the dislike of Pranks, now Del Murder has to take his time to change all of the names back again. This is outrageous!

Psychotic
04-09-2010, 06:14 PM
thx guys got all the screenshots i wanted rofl

time for pwnage

n00bs got trolled :smug:

Del Murder
04-09-2010, 06:16 PM
I have a bad feeling about this.

Election Booth
04-09-2010, 08:56 PM
Alright, so the Zombie Party has 12 hours from now to post a rebuttal, however, after that we are moving on!

Chloe.
04-09-2010, 09:03 PM
:mwahaha:


The elections are supposed to be fun. A time for laughter and merriment. So to that end we've played a few harmless pranks on our rivals, such as changing their user names, renaming threads, and killing them 687 times. Okay, maybe that last one wasn't so harmless, but the point stands!

It's not at all surprising that the 501st Party are trying to criticise pranks when they themselves flip out at the slightest provocation. They take even the tiniest thing DEADLY SERIOUSLY, bless their ragin' little hearts, and it's just so adorable! Don't believe me? Behold, the gallery of elections whining:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen1.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen2.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen3.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen4.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen5.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen6.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen7.png

BONUS GALLERY: NorthernChaosWookiee dies 687 times. Despite all his rage, he is still just a rat in a cage.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg2.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg3.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg4.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg5.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg6.jpg

Now, while it is pretty hilarious to the rest of us watching you all get really butthurt about all the silly little pranks we pull on you, it's probably not healthy! So let us get now to the point of all of this, and end with a piece of advice for our dear sweet opponents who allow themselves to get all worked up over the internet:

Enjoy, you big babies! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ)

Psychotic
04-09-2010, 09:06 PM
My favourite is where I got bored of killing NCG so I went Evel Knievel instead, and built a ramp next to his cage and did a death defying jump over it, while Iceglow carried on killing him. :shobon:

Election Booth
04-09-2010, 09:06 PM
Wow, no assing around! Good, now I can post the next section of the debate. This next part will heavily test both parties. Whenever I find where I wrote the topics down that is :p

NorthernChaosGod
04-09-2010, 09:08 PM
All you've done is show that you're an ass, Paul. :colbert:

Psychotic
04-09-2010, 09:12 PM
I've had my name changed to a number of unpleasant things today alone, and I've been in the cage plenty of times before. Don't see me ragin' :greenie:

Del Murder
04-09-2010, 09:13 PM
They had no good arguments so they had to create their own using cheap forum tricks! Don't believe their lies.

I say this round goes to the 501st. :vader:

NorthernChaosGod
04-09-2010, 09:17 PM
I've had my name changed to a number of unpleasant things today alone, and I've been in the cage plenty of times before. Don't see me ragin' :greenie:

1. You started it. And your new name kicks ass anyway.
2. I doubt you were tricked into it and spent two and a half hours in there.
3. I think that amount of time hardly qualifies as "ragin'."

Election Booth
04-09-2010, 09:20 PM
Alright found it!

The Zombie Party will have to bring up their Keeper of Knowledge and/or Guardian of Youth, to respond to the following topic:

Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members. Some have placed blame on unfriendly, difficult transition into upper forums, and dead, lifeless lower forums. Do you find either of these to be accurate? What do you feel, if anything, should be changed for EoFF to attract new members?

BUT THIS ISN'T ALL!

The 501st Legion Party will have to bring up their General of All Armies and their Vice Presidential Candidate to respond to the following topic:

The Eyeson Frontsite has been worked maticulously by a hard-working dedicated staff of Cid's Technicians. With the coming of vB4, the possibilty of connecting the frontsite and the forums is more possible than ever. How much and how do you feel that they should be connected? Any specific ideas?

Both parties have 24 hours.

NorthernChaosGod
04-09-2010, 09:55 PM
Will these be the only posts required or will rebuttals be made after the initial posts?

Pheesh
04-09-2010, 09:59 PM
Thank the lord, I thought you were going to make us switch sides next. I didn't want to type any more.

Good luck guys.

Freya
04-09-2010, 11:55 PM
Urm why are you using me a non active member of the 501st party as your evidence? Weak.

Steve
04-10-2010, 12:05 AM
Urm why are you using me a non active member of the 501st party as your evidence? Weak.

Because you're a great source of pranks, such as this one:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/KFC.jpg

And ofcourse theres this important message from our sponsors:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd286/Lasuria/snogthehorse.png

Rantz
04-10-2010, 12:39 AM
Freya has requested not to have her picture posted publicly without being asked beforehand. Please refrain from doing so from now on. This goes for the whole forums, not just this thread.

Election Booth
04-10-2010, 01:02 AM
Will these be the only posts required or will rebuttals be made after the initial posts?

The other party will have to rebuttal after the initial argument is made.

Marshall Banana
04-10-2010, 07:45 PM
The Eyeson Frontsite has been worked maticulously by a hard-working dedicated staff of Cid's Technicians. With the coming of vB4, the possibilty of connecting the frontsite and the forums is more possible than ever. How much and how do you feel that they should be connected? Any specific ideas?

<center><table width="600" cellpadding="10" bgcolor="#F06EAA" border="1" bordercolor="#F06EAA"><tr><td background="http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/fofonda/eoff/pinktrooper.gif"><img src="http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/fofonda/eoff/vicepresident.png" align="left"/><font color="#000000"><br/><i>Instead of member-submitted reviews (which I, for one, will never read), actual playthroughs of Square games by members would be more interesting additions to the front site, especially if they're accompanied by screenshots. They'd be like walkthroughs, I guess, and even better than normal playthroughs would be challenges (you know, like low-level challenges).<br/><br/>The blogging feature of VB4 could be used for this, too, and the really good blog entries could be linked from the front site. Regardless, the front site should/could recognize past and future threads like <a href="http://forums.eyesonff.com/final-fantasy-ix/109126-my-perfect-game-file.html">SeeDRankLou's Perfect Game of FFIX</a>, for example, and <a href="http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-archive/52054-final-fantasy-iv-ah-power-cheese.html">Necronopticous' "Ah, the Power of Cheese"</a> (<a href="http://pixelblip.studiogcs.com/ffiv/episodes.html">website here</a>) by linking to them or giving them their own pages. Very helpful they are!<br/><br/>For real! No joke!<br/><br/>Also, I happen to have a Loony BoB icon: <img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/fofonda/pixel/eoff/bob.gif" /></i></font></td></tr></table>

Election Booth
04-10-2010, 08:09 PM
Excellent! Zombie Party now has 12 hours to make a rebuttal along with their hour and 20 minutes to post an argument on their current topic! 501st, you get to kick back and relax until their argument is made.

PureMourning
04-10-2010, 09:59 PM
Zombie Debate Entry:

“Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members.”
Unquestionably, EoFF does have the ability to attract new members. This is illustrated by the fact that 16 new people posted introduction threads within the Wonder Square between March 1st and today. This is not counting those who have posted “Hey, I’m Back!” threads and others who have registered simply without making introduction threads.

“Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members.”
Each and every forum around the world will encounter new members who don’t stick around. This is especially the case for a forum such as EoFF, that has been around for a great period of time. The heart of such a forum is composed of the most loyal members who have served their time here with distinction. Wondering into such an environment incontestably warrants a sense of not belonging to some people. But the important thing is (especially from an administrative perspective) that you'll never make everyone happy. All you can do is try your best; and in this case, it would seem wise to favor with the oldies and try to adapt to the new.

“Some have placed blame on unfriendly, difficult transition into upper forums, and dead, lifeless lower forums. Do you find either of these to be accurate?”
Difficult transition to upper forums? Nope. There is a boundless spew of thread topics to discuss in the upper echelon that only a profound retard couldn’t find something to relate to and discuss.

Lifeless lower forums? Yes. If a new member comes here and means business, soon to find that the main forum sections of such business are considerably quieter, then of course that person may look elsewhere for the conversations in which they seek.

“What do you feel, if anything, should be changed for EoFF to attract new members?”
Nothing. The numbers are there as evidence that new people are swinging by on a consistent basis. Also, this forum is a unique home to so many people already so why change the equation? The eyes that lay witness on this debate tribute to the fact that we are a healthy community in need of no serious remedy or change.

Election Booth
04-10-2010, 11:59 PM
I know you had that ready to go in time, so a'okay!

Alright, I wasn't here when it was posted, so 501st doesn't have 24 hours from now, but 24 hours from the time of PusMoaning's post to make a rebuttal!

qwertysaur
04-11-2010, 02:01 AM
<center><table width="600" cellpadding="10" bgcolor="#b40404" border="1" bordercolor="#b40404"><tr><td background="http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/braingrounds.png"><img src="http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/zombietrooper.png" align="right"/><font color="#ffffff"><br/><b><i>Darth Banana is correct that you will be able to have your own member blog when VBulliten4 comes out. but she has only barely skimmed the surface of what we can and should do. Here are a few examples of what we can do already with it, after all we can do so much more than feature simple playthroughs.<br/><br/>Say for example a member comes up with a technique that makes a certain boss fight easier in Final Fantasy XIII. Cids Knights and Cids Technicians will have the ability to take any post and promote it to an article for the frontsite, so when a newbie comes asking for help this member created technique is available for them. This can encourage members to post their ideas on how to beat a tricky extra boss, explain the trick to get the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines, or even a nice april fools prank like how to really revive Aeris. Adding content to the frontsite will become easier than ever before!<br/><br/>In addition, there can be things like thread of the week or picture of the week, where a single thread or work of art gets put up on the frontsite. It feels really nice when the random people from google who come to find the location of all the Stellazio coins and sees your picture of Mog dancing with Umaro in Narshe. With a chest bump. The possibilities VBulliten4 are endless, and the forums, frontsite, and even chat the the wiki will come together as one.<br/><br/>Also I know html too. :zombert:</i></b></font></td></tr></table>
lowtech version in case you have trouble seeing this because of the colors. <table width="600" cellpadding="10"><tr><td>Darth Banana is correct that you will be able to have your own member blog when VBulliten4 comes out. But she has only barely skimmed the surface of what we can and should do. Here are a few examples of what we can do already with it, after all we can do so much more than feature simple playthroughs.<br/><br/>Say for example a member comes up with a technique that makes a certain boss fight easier in Final Fantasy XIII. Cids Knights and Cids Technicians will have the ability to take any post and promote it to an article for the frontsite, so when a newbie comes asking for help this member created technique is available for them. This can encourage members to post their ideas on how to beat a tricky extra boss, explain the trick to get the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines, or even a nice april fools prank like how to really revive Aeris. Adding content to the frontsite will become easier than ever before!<br/><br/>In addition, there can be things like thread of the week or picture of the week, where a single thread or work of art gets put up on the frontsite. It feels really nice when the random people from google who come to find the location of all the Stellazio coins and sees your picture of Mog dancing with Umaro in Narshe. With a chest bump. The possibilities VBulliten4 are endless, and the forums, frontsite, and even chat the the wiki will come together as one.<br/><br/>Also I know html too. :zombert:</tr></td></table>

Marshall Banana
04-11-2010, 03:13 AM
It's not cool to be a copycat!


Also I know html too. :zombert:
You just copied and pasted the code for my table, though. :kaolaugh:

Huckleberry Quin
04-11-2010, 03:18 AM
Way to be original, Zombies. :roll2

Psychotic
04-11-2010, 03:49 AM
Well of course it's the same, it's a rebuttal. :confused:

Pheesh
04-11-2010, 03:53 AM
Rebuttal is supposed to be the opposing argument. XD

If anything he should have made it super plain.

qwertysaur
04-11-2010, 03:54 AM
I copy paste a lot, but I changed a few details. :zombert:

edit: if it should be super plain then look at the spoiler before you post.

Psychotic
04-11-2010, 03:56 AM
Rebuttal is supposed to be the opposing argument. XDIt's the opposing HTML table!

seriously why is this a big deal? It's supposed to be a bit of fun. Geeeeeeez, guys!

Pheesh
04-11-2010, 04:33 AM
Cause we are the good kids who finished class early and got the good spot in the sandbox...and you guys are the big smelly kids who came and punched us until we gave it to you. :colbert:

Marshall Banana
04-11-2010, 04:54 AM
seriously why is this a big deal? It's supposed to be a bit of fun. Geeeeeeez, guys!
You don't take competition well, huh? :mymelrelaxed:

Here, guys. I'll help you out, because the changes you made to my table are an eyesore:

<table width="600" border="4" bordercolor="#000000" bgcolor="#73A573" background="http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/fofonda/eoff/zombiebg.png" cellpadding="10"><tr><td><img src="http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/fofonda/eoff/bigzombiehead.gif" align="right"/><font color="#000000"><b>Darth Banana is correct that you will be able to have your own member blog when VBulletin4 comes out, but she has only barely skimmed the surface of what we can and should do. Here are a few examples of what we can do already with it; after all, we can do so much more than feature simple playthroughs:<br/><br/>Say, for example, a member comes up with a technique that makes a boss fight easier in Final Fantasy XIII. Cid's Knights and Cid's Technicians will have the ability to promote it to an article for the frontsite, so, when a newbie comes asking for help, this member-created technique is available for them. This can encourage members to post their ideas on how to beat a tricky extra boss, explain the trick to get the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines, or even a nice April Fools prank (like how to really revive Aerith). Adding content to the frontsite will become easier than ever before!<br/><br/>In addition, there can be features like "Thread of the Week" or "Picture of the Week," in which a single thread or work of art is put up on the frontsite. It would feel really nice for random people from Google - who come to find the location of all the Stellazio coins - to see your picture of Mog dancing with Umaro in Narshe instead. With a chest bump. The possibilities of VBulletin4 are endless; and the forums, frontsite, and even chat and the wiki will come together as one.<br/><br/>Also I know html too. :zombert:</b></font></td></tr></table>

qwertysaur
04-11-2010, 05:00 AM
I provided for anyone who disliked how the table looked with the lowtech version right under the first table in the spoiler tag. :zombert:

And this is an eyesoar
<img src="http://www.zeldauniverse.net/images/games/ooa/bosses/eyesoar.gif">

Election Booth
04-11-2010, 06:21 AM
I know you had that ready to go in time, so a'okay!

Alright, I wasn't here when it was posted, so 501st doesn't have 24 hours from now, but 24 hours from the time of PusMoaning's post to make a rebuttal!

This was a typo, it was suppose to read 12. However, my typo probably screwed any chance of them doing it in 12, so I'll reward them the 24. Call it making up for the Zombies' first round.

Jiro
04-11-2010, 06:37 PM
“Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members.”

Unquestionably, EoFF does have the ability to attract new members. This is illustrated by the fact that 16 new people posted introduction threads within the Wonder Square between March 1st and today. This is not counting those who have posted “Hey, I’m Back!” threads and others who have registered simply without making introduction threads.

Sixteen members in the space of five weeks is not very promising -- three per week? As for those who don't post a newbie thread, many of those are bots and the few legitimate members don't make any posts. EoFF is built around a franchise that is no longer as popular as it once was. There are fewer and less frequent instalments, and the market is flooded with non-Final Fantasy titles. Final Fantasy simply holds less appeal to the youth of today.


“Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members.”

Each and every forum around the world will encounter new members who don’t stick around. This is especially the case for a forum such as EoFF, that has been around for a great period of time. The heart of such a forum is composed of the most loyal members who have served their time here with distinction. Wondering into such an environment incontestably warrants a sense of not belonging to some people. But the important thing is (especially from an administrative perspective) that you'll never make everyone happy. All you can do is try your best; and in this case, it would seem wise to favor with the oldies and try to adapt to the new.

Favouring already established members is like injecting EoFF with the genophage; sure it's for their own good, but how the hell does the forum survive? It doesn't, Wrex gets pissed and things get broken. We don't want that. However, favouring newbies drives away the members who have been an important part of the community for any period of time. Perhaps trying to strike a balance is a far more diplomatic approach, and much more likely to actually achieve anything. The best way for the established members to help retain new members is to stop being bigoted elitists. If you've nailed that, then try being welcoming.


“Some have placed blame on unfriendly, difficult transition into upper forums, and dead, lifeless lower forums. Do you find either of these to be accurate?”

Difficult transition to upper forums? Nope. There is a boundless spew of thread topics to discuss in the upper echelon that only a profound retard couldn’t find something to relate to and discuss.

Yes, let's insult people who might be actually too confronted by so many different topics that they stay away. I am proof enough of this; I spent my newbie days on EoFF in the lower forums until inactivity and real life drew me away completely. General Chat was too hectic, and that was the place where you knew everybody would see your posts. I, like many others, decided against posting in general chat. However many of these members do not stick around long enough to get the courage to post where they can be judged.



Lifeless lower forums? Yes. If a new member comes here and means business, soon to find that the main forum sections of such business are considerably quieter, then of course that person may look elsewhere for the conversations in which they seek.
The lower forums are not active because those games are no longer in the spotlight. Topics have been discussed time and time again and obtaining some of those games in current days is actually more expensive than it was when first released. There was an unopened copy of Final Fantasy VII in a store I visited recently selling for $134.95. In addition, the outdated graphics are likely to turn off new players, which results in an overall deficet of members. Eyes on Plays events (and/or similar) are the only way(s) to bring life back into the lower forums, and even then it is only shortlived.


“What do you feel, if anything, should be changed for EoFF to attract new members?”

Nothing. The numbers are there as evidence that new people are swinging by on a consistent basis. Also, this forum is a unique home to so many people already so why change the equation? The eyes that lay witness on this debate tribute to the fact that we are a healthy community in need of no serious remedy or change.

The way to attract new members to EoFF would be to completely overhaul the site and make it about RPGs in general or something less specific. However you'd obviously understand why this isn't going to happen. EoFF doesn't need to change. Eyes on Final Fantasy is like Earth; it's populated by a diverse range of people. Final Fantasy is like the Lifestream -- it gives life to new people/members, and also to the Earth/Forum itself. The biggest changes need to happen to our Lifestream, not our Earth.

Election Booth
04-12-2010, 04:01 AM
So all the arguments are in, I've given you a breather and you'll continue to get a breather until the special surprise I have in store for you all between the rounds is ready. ;)

Psychotic
04-12-2010, 04:06 AM
is it a pony?

e: a zomby pony?

Election Booth
04-12-2010, 04:20 AM
There will be no Zombie Pornos. :colbert:

qwertysaur
04-12-2010, 04:23 AM
but what about ponies?

NorthernChaosGod
04-12-2010, 04:34 AM
is it a pony?

e: a zomby pony?

Why do you keep spelling zombie wrong? o_O

Election Booth
04-12-2010, 04:19 PM
Great job everyone, now periodically throughout the day, the winners of each individual debate will be posted, tallying up to determine who will be the winner of the beginning of the debates, and get to choice when their president wants to post their argument, first, or as a rebuttal!

But that begs the question, how will the winner of the beginning rounds be chosen? The rounds have been judged in secret by the one, the only, guess the name!

Taaaaaaaaaaaaavroooooooooooobeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel!

Here are his thoughts on the first round!



EoFF and Pranks:


The Zombie Party is of the opinion that pranks on Eyes on FF are bitchin'. They're a fun way to mix things up a little and cause wacky situations. However, not all pranks are appropriate for EoFF. Here are all the types of pranks that we feel are best kept off the forums:

- Pranks that smurfing suck.

Like, for example, Raistlin's recent prank. His grand scheme to destroy the staff was to pretend to post porn and get them to consider whether or not they should ban him. JOKE'S ON THEM, HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY POST IT!!!! In order to accomplish this goal, he spent countless hours typing out long, whiny debating posts, indistinguishable from the usual crap he spews, which were largely ignored. The effort he put in really doesn't match the payoff he got for it, and after his General Chat gloating thread, it all became a toe-curling and awkward affair.

For reference, THIS is Raistlin:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/swimsuit1.jpg

Just imagine this vile, sweaty man, cackling away to himself as he hammers out another post decrying the staff. Go on. Do it. And then tell me that utterly dire pranks like the one he pulled should be allowed. If you're still on the fence about this, let me just give you the quote that accompanies this photo:

"I tried to look hot/slutty cupping my perky boobs and giving a kissy face"

I rest my case.

Okay, great, but you didn't really answer anything. What I got from your post was that only pranks that do not suck should be allowed. What's your criteria for not sucking? You can't just bring in a qualifier and not say anything about it. You've got to elaborate on it more. All you gave was one, sweeping statement, and a post that was made up of an image of Raistlin.

You've told us that Raistlin has a paradigm of pranks, but what if we don't agree? What exactly is the stance that you believe in? It's perfectly reasonable that the second part of your post contradicts the first part of your post. It's not at all clear what we should be supporting about Raistlin, which to be frank, does not even answer the question. In the way you've inserted Raistlin into your argument, it is completely irrelevant to the core of your argument.

Nice try, but you're not convincing anyone. And to be even more forward, that image was as pointless as your post. Learn not to suck, or at least, follow up on your statements. This argument could have been so much more of, you know, an argument.


Ok, wow; sorry everybody, it’s just a little bit hard to rebut arguments when none are really made, but the 501st will do our best. From what we can gather in that horrible excuse for an argument, the Zombie Party seem to think that “pranks on Eyes on FF are bitchin’” and are trying to argue that they should be a part of the forums, unless they involve raistlin posing in his bikini.

We at the 501st think that with all the recent heart ache and stress that the latest run of pranks have caused that the Zombie Party wouldn’t be so quick to jump to the defence of malicious and hurtful pranks, many of which are little more than an inside joke done to a much larger scale. Although it is obvious that some pranks are completely harmless and can be a fun little event for the forum (examples being name and set changes), the majority of large scale pranks tend to cause more anger, stress and butt-hurt than humour



http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/eternal_essence/important-1.jpg
Exhibit A shows the temporary March spike in activity as users were forced to post in the name of a fake CK competition, before finally realising they'd been duped; causing wide spread butt-hurt, anger, and a general decline in enjoyment.

It’s all well and good for the members who are in on the joke (or suspect something is going on) to sit back and have a chuckle, but EoFF has a large community that expands every day, and a large number of the pranks that are done create a tumultuous forum environment, that can confuse and push away not only new members, but also long time members. In the latest pranks to occur (‘CK comp’ and ‘angry long posts by raistlin are angry and long’) most of the people on the forum were fed up with reading the thousands of lines worth of text that were being posted in the feedback forum, long before the prank was due to be revealed. Not only that, but the staff themselves have admitted that it was cruel to make the latter half of the ‘potential CKs’ do all that work (mountains of posts and threads, which actually served to annoy almost as many people as they amused).


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/eternal_essence/evidence.jpg
Exhibit B is a little diddy we at 501st HQ like to call ADMISSION OF GUILT!!

The latest pranks had many people angry during the time they were being done, and even during the aftermath. Mogi is but one example of a person who didn’t really see the ‘APRIL FOOLS GUYS, lololol’ side of the joke. We in the 501st legion have heard stories from some of our new recruits about how they were really quite confused about what was going on in the forum, and if we hadn’t given them neat matching uniforms and structure then they may not have stuck around for the long run. Also, let's not forget that in the latest prank the members of EoFF (a large grouping of which are under 18) were exposed to porn, all in the name of some personal vendetta that one member shared against the staff. If that isn't the epitome of a prank going to far, then what is?


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/eternal_essence/evidence2copy.jpg
Exhibit C: What the Shlup!? They are lying to us!!!

But the latest prank isn't the only time that these 'harmless jokes' have ended in problems. The lucky bags are an example of pranks that have caused rifts in the member base. In the most recent of these events one of the evil zombie members (RottingYuna89) turned on one of her own staff members and had him banned. Needless to say, hurt feelings and a large member rift ensued.

We’re not saying that the pranks aren’t funny for people, because as we said, there is a very large cross section at EoFF, and not everyone reacts the same way. But when we have staff and long time members warring with each other in the name of lulz, showing a divided front to new and old members alike, making dedicated posters jump through hoops for no reason, then we feel that you may as well just join the 501st...because the whole forum has obviously succumbed to the dark side already.

You know, my junior year history teacher once told me that if you use exhibits or references, they should be sparse, and more on the analysis side. And use a better forum skin. The aerisboob scheme sucks.

Pranks are obvious? Since when? As far as I know, they're deliberate attempts made on a person's or a group's ego for the sake of personal amusement. That puts the pulling party into the position of the one that knows. Why, it's not obvious at all. At least you're right about pranks having downsides.

Where is this chart's source? You can't just draw lines around to prove your point. You fail statistics forever. Count your lucky stars that you at least made your x-axis clear, or else I would be deducting points like an exam printed on red paper.

Your argument brings up a compelling point that not everyone sees pranks as pranks, and that more often than not, the prank gets a little old halfway through. Additionally, you've brought up the point of potentially causing a communal schism, which I don't think I have to point out (but will), is precisely the opposite of what a community wants.

I do have to ask, just who managed to get banned by Rye? For all of your exhibit use, it's a little suspicious that you'd omit this reference.

Goddamnit, advertisement plugs.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF


The elections are supposed to be fun. A time for laughter and merriment. So to that end we've played a few harmless pranks on our rivals, such as changing their user names, renaming threads, and killing them 687 times. Okay, maybe that last one wasn't so harmless, but the point stands!

It's not at all surprising that the 501st Party are trying to criticise pranks when they themselves flip out at the slightest provocation. They take even the tiniest thing DEADLY SERIOUSLY, bless their ragin' little hearts, and it's just so adorable! Don't believe me? Behold, the gallery of elections whining:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen1.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen2.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen3.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen4.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen5.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen6.png

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/screen7.png

BONUS GALLERY: NorthernChaosWookiee dies 687 times. Despite all his rage, he is still just a rat in a cage.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg2.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg3.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg4.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg5.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/photobucketamazingness/ncg6.jpg

Now, while it is pretty hilarious to the rest of us watching you all get really butthurt about all the silly little pranks we pull on you, it's probably not healthy! So let us get now to the point of all of this, and end with a piece of advice for our dear sweet opponents who allow themselves to get all worked up over the internet:

Enjoy, you big babies! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ)

What is the point of your post? You seem to be putting the reactions of the other party on the spotlight, even though the question is about pranks, not general events. I love the ad hominem attack at the end. Here's a better one: you suck. Why should I care that you killed him 687 times? For all we know, he could have killed you over 9000 times, and you're trying to impress us by numbers. It doesn't work that way. If you present numbers, you've got to present some of the opposing party's numbers as well, even if they're falsified. At least try to fake it.


This round goes to the 501st, for having a more compelling argument. Well, that's actually not true. They get this round for having an argument in the first place. I was just trying to be nice. Then I changed my mind.

Psychotic
04-12-2010, 04:21 PM
So it is a zomby pony. I knew it!

I Don't Need A Name
04-12-2010, 04:24 PM
Thank you Tavrobel!

Pheesh
04-12-2010, 04:32 PM
Oh jeez. I'm glad we won and all...but I think I actually felt my face being scolded through the computer screen by his response :/

Psychotic
04-12-2010, 04:37 PM
btw tavrobel he killed me 0 times :shobon:

Goldenboko
04-12-2010, 04:56 PM
Good job to 501st for taking debate #1.


Oh jeez. I'm glad we won and all...but I think I actually felt my face being scolded through the computer screen by his response :/

Well, you know the saying about temperature tolerance and places of cooking!

Election Booth
04-12-2010, 05:25 PM
Next up, 501st Legion Party's Round II argument.



The Eyeson Frontsite has been worked maticulously by a hard-working dedicated staff of Cid's Technicians. With the coming of vB4, the possibilty of connecting the frontsite and the forums is more possible than ever. How much and how do you feel that they should be connected? Any specific ideas?


Instead of member-submitted reviews (which I, for one, will never read), actual playthroughs of Square games by members would be more interesting additions to the front site, especially if they're accompanied by screenshots. They'd be like walkthroughs, I guess, and even better than normal playthroughs would be challenges (you know, like low-level challenges).

The blogging feature of VB4 could be used for this, too, and the really good blog entries could be linked from the front site. Regardless, the front site should/could recognize past and future threads like SeeDRankLou's Perfect Game of FFIX, for example, and Necronopticous' "Ah, the Power of Cheese" (website here) by linking to them or giving them their own pages. Very helpful they are!

For real! No joke!

Also, I happen to have a Loony BoB icon:

How do you know what people will and won't be interested in? And why do you assume that just because you don't read reviews, that other people would not? Sometimes, even a short statement from a party is enough to seal a deal between what is played and is not.

Though I see the value of having more user-generated content, why is it the assumption that there would be people with both the drive and the technology to complete and post their playthroughs in such an organized manner? Videos would suggest a YouTube account, which not everyone has (much less any other video streaming site). We already have enough trouble as it is getting people to write tables of information, and suddenly, you want them to advertise entire blocks of time dedicated to playing the game, with what could possibly be an incomplete and non-expert showcase of the game?

The question asked for integration, but this feels like it only covers one aspect of frontsite-forum integration, which is based on watching someone play through a game. I tried that noise, and I didn't even get through video 9 of 54. You're going to have to come up with something a little more interesting than simply saying "let's play a game in a specific way for the amusement of others." What's your incentive for doing so?


Darth Banana is correct that you will be able to have your own member blog when VBulliten4 comes out. but she has only barely skimmed the surface of what we can and should do. Here are a few examples of what we can do already with it, after all we can do so much more than feature simple playthroughs.

Say for example a member comes up with a technique that makes a certain boss fight easier in Final Fantasy XIII. Cids Knights and Cids Technicians will have the ability to take any post and promote it to an article for the frontsite, so when a newbie comes asking for help this member created technique is available for them. This can encourage members to post their ideas on how to beat a tricky extra boss, explain the trick to get the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines, or even a nice april fools prank like how to really revive Aeris. Adding content to the frontsite will become easier than ever before!

In addition, there can be things like thread of the week or picture of the week, where a single thread or work of art gets put up on the frontsite. It feels really nice when the random people from google who come to find the location of all the Stellazio coins and sees your picture of Mog dancing with Umaro in Narshe. With a chest bump. The possibilities VBulliten4 are endless, and the forums, frontsite, and even chat the the wiki will come together as one.

Also I know html too.

Clearly people are catching on to the idea that integration is a good thing, and that there needs to be a way to include what the standard user wants to see on the frontsite as being entirely possible. You've offered more possibilities, all of which seem viable.

Here's the better question: where are you going to get all of that manpower? Half the people here don't do anything, the other half don't even like Final Fantasy anymore, and the remaining half does not have the steady hands or the technology to pull off a procedure like that. Yes, I'm aware that adds up to 150%, but I'm an engineer (a real engineer, mind you), so I'm allowed to do :bou::bou::bou::bou: like that.


This round goes to the Zombie Party for providing a more complete suggestion on what integration could possibly be with the new vB4. The looming question remains, of course, is even if those plans are implemented, how is it going to be done with what appears to be an unwilling fanbase?

Pheesh
04-12-2010, 05:34 PM
b-b-but...they didn't rebut our argument :S

Loony BoB
04-12-2010, 05:36 PM
Interesting so far. I'm edged towards the 501st, mostly because of a repulsive image shown in the first debate by the Zombie party. How can you win votes with images like that? We've probably banned people for less.

Mo-Nercy
04-12-2010, 05:51 PM
b-b-but...they didn't rebut our argument :S
With political debates in your typical two-party democracies, the two parties can agree in principle, but differ in their opinion of what may be the best pratical solution to an issue.

I'm not sure whether these debates were the kind that required each of the parties to argue in the affirmative and the negative.

In any case, the Zombie party did a better job in Round 2, but I believe the 501sters are still firm favourites.

qwertysaur
04-12-2010, 06:42 PM
b-b-but...they didn't rebut our argument :S
Yeah I did, it's called conceding a point and then strengthening it. As you can see it can be a powerful tool, when used in an appropriate situation.

Election Booth
04-12-2010, 07:09 PM
And now, the final topic!



Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members. Some have placed blame on unfriendly, difficult transition into upper forums, and dead, lifeless lower forums. Do you find either of these to be accurate? What do you feel, if anything, should be changed for EoFF to attract new members?


Zombie Debate Entry:

“Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members.”
Unquestionably, EoFF does have the ability to attract new members. This is illustrated by the fact that 16 new people posted introduction threads within the Wonder Square between March 1st and today. This is not counting those who have posted “Hey, I’m Back!” threads and others who have registered simply without making introduction threads.

“Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members.”
Each and every forum around the world will encounter new members who don’t stick around. This is especially the case for a forum such as EoFF, that has been around for a great period of time. The heart of such a forum is composed of the most loyal members who have served their time here with distinction. Wondering into such an environment incontestably warrants a sense of not belonging to some people. But the important thing is (especially from an administrative perspective) that you'll never make everyone happy. All you can do is try your best; and in this case, it would seem wise to favor with the oldies and try to adapt to the new.

“Some have placed blame on unfriendly, difficult transition into upper forums, and dead, lifeless lower forums. Do you find either of these to be accurate?”
Difficult transition to upper forums? Nope. There is a boundless spew of thread topics to discuss in the upper echelon that only a profound retard couldn’t find something to relate to and discuss.

Lifeless lower forums? Yes. If a new member comes here and means business, soon to find that the main forum sections of such business are considerably quieter, then of course that person may look elsewhere for the conversations in which they seek.

“What do you feel, if anything, should be changed for EoFF to attract new members?”
Nothing. The numbers are there as evidence that new people are swinging by on a consistent basis. Also, this forum is a unique home to so many people already so why change the equation? The eyes that lay witness on this debate tribute to the fact that we are a healthy community in need of no serious remedy or change.

While you speak the truth, your first two points don't really offer any kind of solution to anything. Of course we know that people need to adapt and change, but how may this best be accomplished, if there may be a plan at all? Have you considered, that perhaps the leaders don't like change?

You called people in the lower forums retards, and yet, for the longest time, people could comfortably stay in the lower forums without any interaction in the top forums. What if people don't have a vested interest with sharing personal views on topics? What if they do not find themselves comfortable with that particular type of social interaction, even if it is accomplished via internet? What if they have that already, and what they want is not here at all, but continue to contribute to the gamer community? May I remind you that EoFF is a fansite based on a series of videogames?

Where is the numerical evidence that more people are registering than before? Last I checked, registrations have been going down.

Overall, I feel like your argument could have been more fleshed out. While you've identified the causes very well, there's something to be desired on the effects, or rather, a way to affect the cause and effect cycle.



“Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members.”

Unquestionably, EoFF does have the ability to attract new members. This is illustrated by the fact that 16 new people posted introduction threads within the Wonder Square between March 1st and today. This is not counting those who have posted “Hey, I’m Back!” threads and others who have registered simply without making introduction threads.

Sixteen members in the space of five weeks is not very promising -- three per week? As for those who don't post a newbie thread, many of those are bots and the few legitimate members don't make any posts. EoFF is built around a franchise that is no longer as popular as it once was. There are fewer and less frequent instalments, and the market is flooded with non-Final Fantasy titles. Final Fantasy simply holds less appeal to the youth of today.


“Much has been made about EoFF's ability or inability to attract and keep new members.”

Each and every forum around the world will encounter new members who don’t stick around. This is especially the case for a forum such as EoFF, that has been around for a great period of time. The heart of such a forum is composed of the most loyal members who have served their time here with distinction. Wondering into such an environment incontestably warrants a sense of not belonging to some people. But the important thing is (especially from an administrative perspective) that you'll never make everyone happy. All you can do is try your best; and in this case, it would seem wise to favor with the oldies and try to adapt to the new.

Favouring already established members is like injecting EoFF with the genophage; sure it's for their own good, but how the hell does the forum survive? It doesn't, Wrex gets pissed and things get broken. We don't want that. However, favouring newbies drives away the members who have been an important part of the community for any period of time. Perhaps trying to strike a balance is a far more diplomatic approach, and much more likely to actually achieve anything. The best way for the established members to help retain new members is to stop being bigoted elitists. If you've nailed that, then try being welcoming.


“Some have placed blame on unfriendly, difficult transition into upper forums, and dead, lifeless lower forums. Do you find either of these to be accurate?”

Difficult transition to upper forums? Nope. There is a boundless spew of thread topics to discuss in the upper echelon that only a profound retard couldn’t find something to relate to and discuss.

Yes, let's insult people who might be actually too confronted by so many different topics that they stay away. I am proof enough of this; I spent my newbie days on EoFF in the lower forums until inactivity and real life drew me away completely. General Chat was too hectic, and that was the place where you knew everybody would see your posts. I, like many others, decided against posting in general chat. However many of these members do not stick around long enough to get the courage to post where they can be judged.



Lifeless lower forums? Yes. If a new member comes here and means business, soon to find that the main forum sections of such business are considerably quieter, then of course that person may look elsewhere for the conversations in which they seek.
The lower forums are not active because those games are no longer in the spotlight. Topics have been discussed time and time again and obtaining some of those games in current days is actually more expensive than it was when first released. There was an unopened copy of Final Fantasy VII in a store I visited recently selling for $134.95. In addition, the outdated graphics are likely to turn off new players, which results in an overall deficet of members. Eyes on Plays events (and/or similar) are the only way(s) to bring life back into the lower forums, and even then it is only shortlived.


“What do you feel, if anything, should be changed for EoFF to attract new members?”

Nothing. The numbers are there as evidence that new people are swinging by on a consistent basis. Also, this forum is a unique home to so many people already so why change the equation? The eyes that lay witness on this debate tribute to the fact that we are a healthy community in need of no serious remedy or change.

The way to attract new members to EoFF would be to completely overhaul the site and make it about RPGs in general or something less specific. However you'd obviously understand why this isn't going to happen. EoFF doesn't need to change. Eyes on Final Fantasy is like Earth; it's populated by a diverse range of people. Final Fantasy is like the Lifestream -- it gives life to new people/members, and also to the Earth/Forum itself. The biggest changes need to happen to our Lifestream, not our Earth.

omg I love the organization of this post. It's so point/counterpoint, which reminds me of the old SNL skits, where someone is always called an ignorant slut.

How so? There's more games being produced in the Final Fantasy franchise than ever before. I really don't think that between the time of VII and VIII, there were as many games with the FF tag as between XII and XIII. And it's always been true that members will register and not make post. That doesn't mean that the franchise is the cause of disinterest; the correlation is non-causal, unless you can show otherwise.

Compromise is always better. Always. No exceptions.

... I'm finding it harder and harder to disagree with your post.


This round will also be going to the 501st. I think the Zombie Party would have been onto something, if they had rebutted a second time. However, I should also take into account, that the 501st had a full 24 hours to respond and prepare, rather than the 12 afforded in the other cases.

Conditional victory.

So, the 501st won more topics, but did Tavrobel actually declare them winner? Stay glued to those TV Sets to find out everyone!

Goldenboko
04-12-2010, 07:14 PM
Favouring already established members is like injecting EoFF with the genophage; sure it's for their own good, but how the hell does the forum survive? It doesn't, Wrex gets pissed and things get broken.

Best line of the entire debate imho.

Jessweeee♪
04-12-2010, 07:15 PM
Favouring already established members is like injecting EoFF with the genophage; sure it's for their own good, but how the hell does the forum survive? It doesn't, Wrex gets pissed and things get broken.

Best line of the entire debate imho.

I don't even understand it. Is the analogy some reference to something?

demondude
04-12-2010, 07:17 PM
Favouring already established members is like injecting EoFF with the genophage; sure it's for their own good, but how the hell does the forum survive? It doesn't, Wrex gets pissed and things get broken.

Best line of the entire debate imho.

I don't even understand it. Is the analogy some reference to something?

Yes. It's also hilarious. :D

EDIT: It's a Mass Effect reference.

Goldenboko
04-12-2010, 07:18 PM
Favouring already established members is like injecting EoFF with the genophage; sure it's for their own good, but how the hell does the forum survive? It doesn't, Wrex gets pissed and things get broken.

Best line of the entire debate imho.

I don't even understand it. Is the analogy some reference to something?

It's a reference to Mass Effect's Krogan Race and the pure awesomeness that is Wrex.

All I have to say is, "Bring me something to kill."

Jiro
04-12-2010, 07:22 PM
The time between me reading the argument and then posting the rebuttal was about 140 minutes, if that helps our cause at all. Also I was slightly intoxicated and it was about 2am. Seems my partying days didn't die with TAP.

Jessweeee♪
04-12-2010, 07:25 PM
Favouring already established members is like injecting EoFF with the genophage; sure it's for their own good, but how the hell does the forum survive? It doesn't, Wrex gets pissed and things get broken.

Best line of the entire debate imho.

I don't even understand it. Is the analogy some reference to something?

Yes. It's also hilarious. :D

EDIT: It's a Mass Effect reference.

Oh. I was only about two hours or so into the game when I played it at Mogi's house before I had to fly back to Texas ;_;

NorthernChaosGod
04-12-2010, 07:35 PM
Oh jeez. I'm glad we won and all...but I think I actually felt my face being scolded through the computer screen by his response :/

I felt bitch slapped. :(

It doesn't help that my face is sunburnt either.

I'm glad we win so far... I guess.

Election Booth
04-12-2010, 08:42 PM
And here it is! Tavrobel's Final Remarks and announcement of the winner!


Two Rounds have been awarded to the 501st party, with the Zombies taking away the final round. If all rounds were considered equal, one would expect the 501st to be the winners of the debate. But this is not necessarily true. It should be noted, that I, in my infernal majesty and superior critical-analysis skills am high enough to judge who was and who was not thinking out of all of you. It is rather disappointing to see some of the lack of effort in some of the participants in actually answering the question. In such a case, it becomes painfully obvious who should be awarded for doing something that they were already supposed to do, but from what I have been told, honest and sincere appreciation is more valuable than criticism.

However, I have not read How to Win Friends and Influence People, so I will be providing criticism. At this point, I would simply like to say, that your arguments all suck. Frankly, if there were a winner of the Elections based on those debates, it would be me, for actually having had to read through all of that :bou::bou::bou::bou:. Seriously guys, were you not thinking or something? Goddamnit, Booth gave you 12-24 hours to think of something to throw at a wall, and half of the time, you all completely missed. We are not operating in four dimensions. The wall does not change based on time. It's there, right in front of you, and you missed it. Jesus smurfing H. Learn how not to suck massive donkey nuts, grab a thesaurus, and just start having sex with it using your eyes before you walk into another debate. I'm even more surprised, that I understood what viewpoint some of you even adopted in your arguments, it was so unclear.

On the plus side, I would like to note, that some of you raised valid points. Alienation of old members in favor of the new members would compromise the sense of tradition here at EoFF, and this is something that I have learned in my time here. Of course, there is also always a time when traditions should be reviewed, and if necessary, turned aside in favor of new, superior traditions. A paradigm shift in thought is not always representative of upheaval in the ranks. It only constitutes a new part in the grand machine of progress. Count your lucky stars that these parts are readily interchangeable as long as there is a guide to do so.

I must say that I am heavily biased for the frontsite. It is not a small suggestion to say that I may not have been entirely impartial in my analysis, but I did what I could. The only road to survival is constant chatter between constituency and leaders. What better way to represent that than to give showcases of such contributions on the frontsite with tangible rewards on the forums?

In a final note, as I close my analysis of the posts, I wish there had been more of them. It seemed like an actual discussion could have been fruitful if moderated closely, and allowed to continue. The problem with having suggestions in downtime, is that sometimes, some people let their indiscretions and their biases get the best of them. I am not immune to such things (but really, you all have got to come up with better ideas than "do x"). I must emphasize that ideas are great, but you need a plan of action as part of your proposed solution. Otherwise, it will summarily be shot down by the Forum Staff, all of whom I believe to be genuinely retarded. Who is crazier, the crazy person, or the person arguing with the nutjob? Who is to say? Even I cannot tell.

I declare the winners of the debates in general to be the 501st Party. I do however, have a few words for the Zombie Party:

Paul, change your name back. The joke is up. If the 501st were going to listen to you because of your name, they would have already done so. Cut the "I'm Jesus" act, and get back to being your party's leader. I didn't die just so that you could smurf everything up. You've got your work cut out for you, but that's probably because I'm not on your side this time. I'm the impartial observer. The last time I got involved, someone (I'm not going to name any names, like MILF's name) decided to be a douche and ruined my steak dinners.

The Zombie Party needs to get its act together. You're relying too much on brute strength and shock value. Even the undead can wield the arcane magics, so why not adopt a little intelligence and spontaneity in your actions? Go big or go home, that's my motto. Quit dyin' and start tryin'!

501st, please PM me with your decision as to when your president shall debate!

demondude
04-12-2010, 08:44 PM
Zombie Party revolution imo.

Psychotic
04-12-2010, 08:44 PM
I didn't change my name to this in the first place! :colbert:

but

I think I can come up with a happy compromise.

Marshall Banana
04-12-2010, 09:10 PM
Though I see the value of having more user-generated content, why is it the assumption that there would be people with both the drive and the technology to complete and post their playthroughs in such an organized manner?
'Cause the people in my links did.

And people have done it quite a bit in "Eyes on Plays" threads.

And I posted about nearly every step of the "level one Ozma challenge," starting where Jeremy left off, when I did it.

There's already stuff out there. :kaoplain:

NorthernChaosGod
04-12-2010, 11:17 PM
I didn't change my name to this in the first place! :colbert:

but

I think I can come up with a happy compromise.

Death to the false emperor! :mad2:

Election Booth
04-13-2010, 04:34 AM
So, Mandalore has chosen to go second in the up and coming debate! That means Psychotic has 24 hours to come up with an argument on the following topic:

It has been over a year since a very controversial thread (http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-chat/121994-eyes-final-fantasy-posting-activity-history.html) has been posted. The overall curve seem to show that EoFF had plateau'd and showed a downward trend in activity.

In the future will the trend...
A. Continue downward
B. Level out
C. Begin to reverse to the upward direction

Obviously by now you should know to explain yourself.

Aerith's Knight
04-13-2010, 12:57 PM
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/4760/97720445.png (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/97720445.png/)

I won't be there.

Jiro
04-13-2010, 02:35 PM
I think my self confidence took a mighty hit after that final revelation. The only thing we can do now is make sure our President kicks ass

Psychotic
04-13-2010, 02:37 PM
This is long, yes, and I imagine many of you won't bother to read it. But I hope it will prove insightful for those of you who do!

There are three main posting communities I'm going to take a look at. Yes, there are some other mini-communities, and yes, there is some overlap between the three. These are the ones I want to focus on though. I'm going to look at them in three different time periods too.

First I think we have to look at why activity dropped so hard from what it used to be.

Past - Why it went downhill

The Royal Role Players Society
This group was actually incredibly overlooked by everyone, but it may come as a surprise to you all that the RP Forum was actually the second most active forum on EoFF in 2006, behind only General Chat. It clocked up 20,602 posts, more than the FFVII and VIII forums combined!

The top ten posters of that forum at the time were:


1. eiko guy - 2356
2. Ace14 - 2164
3. Arc_Master_14 - 1914
4. 4evarisha - 1846
5. The Majestic - 1599
6. TyphoonThaReapa - 1164
7. Hazzard - 1129
8. Albel - 970
9. f f freak - 621
10. Laddy - 395I only ever really see Laddy around the forums on a regular basis these days. Where have all these posters gone?! This has been the hugest dip in activity, and the forum is pretty much a ghost town now. Why? I don't know. I wasn't a part of that community. I could speculate that it declined with Behold the Void's decline, but I really couldn't tell you.

The Final Fantasy crew
I think you'll be hard-pressed to dispute that Final Fantasy's golden age was between FFVII and FFX, and then this was quickly followed by the immensely successful Kingdom Hearts games. New FFs were released rapidly during that time, and the games were all fantastic and a lot of fun. Life was good!

The thing is, you can't discuss the same old games over and over and over and over. It gets boring. Each year will see a dwindle in our FF forum activity. You need new games to spice it up and draw new members.

And so came the after times.

FFX-2 was a smurfing fantastic game, the problem is that every FF fan hated it because they couldn't look beyond it being Slutty Dress Up Doll Fashion Parade. Let's face it, the whole thing was an attempt by Square to appeal to a new market, which is a damn shame.

FFXI, while still popular among it's core EoFF crew, alienated many FF fans by being an MMORPG. Let me put it this way - it is the only FF game I have never played, nor had any desire to play. The facts say it all - its forum has the lowest post count of all the modern games.

FFXII took way too long to release after X, and was a bit of a grindy mess, with hardly any likeable characters.

Feel free to argue that these are great and wonderful games if you want, (and miss the point entirely while you're at it :p) but you can hardly claim Vaan and Vayne are anywhere near Cloud and Sephiroth in terms of being universally known gaming icons. In short, Square messed and tinkered with the successful formula they had in the PSX era, and it has not done the series any favours. Final Fantasy was the smurfing king of the PlayStation. Nothing could touch it. But since then the quality dwindled and so did membership.

The General Mob
Hey, that's us! We didn't smurf up, guys, it's cool! Relax! :D The post counts for all the General forums far, far outweigh those of the FF forums, so to be perfectly blunt, EoFF is a general forum. I'm already awaiting the 501st trying to jump all over this point, but I don't particularly care if I give them an opening, because while what I say may be controversial and an easy target for them to screech about, it's also the truth and I'm not going to pull punches just to appease everyone. I know it says "Eyes on Final Fantasy" at the top, but that's just our theme. It's like if you go to an Irish Pub. Their theme is Irish, our theme is Final Fantasy. It's still a pub, just as this is a still a general forum! FF is just our hook to draw people in and therein lies the problem - FF's stock is dwindling, as I said, and therefore the General forums will feel a knock on effect from that. We'll have less new members to replace the old ones who leave.

Present - Where are we now?

The Royal Role Players Society
Well, the roleplay forum, having died, is still dead. From its glory days, it now actually has posts from 2008 on the front page! Nothing changes there - can't lose posts that aren't there! :p


The Final Fantasy crew
Final Fantasy is an interesting one. Final Fantasy XIII was released recently, as I'm sure we all know, and unlike with FFXII, the staff tried really hard to promote that game, by having a full gallery of XIII avatars, making XIII forum skins and moving the forum to the top of the index. I feel confident in saying that the XIII launch at EoFF was more successful than the XII one. I think this will lead to a greater amount of activity overall in the FF forums in 2010 compared to 2008 and 2009.

The General Mob
Finally, us general folk. We've already had a lot of high activity events in 2010, like the April Fool's CK contest and indeed, these very elections! There has also been the very successful addition of the Wonder Square forum, which has added 10,000 new posts in its year of life, and has hopefully encouraged more newbies to stay. I can see General activity being slightly higher than in previous years, but not by a great deal.

So to sum that up, I think 2010 might just end up having slightly more posts than 2008/9, if this pace keeps up. As far as Election Booth's question goes, that's "C"! Which is a good sign, but let's not take the good times for granted again.


The Future - Or How We Can Make Things Better!

I think, to be perfectly honest with you, the way we are going right now, activity will dip again after 2010 - The buzz from XIII will have died down, and it looks like it'll be a while yet before we see Versus and KHIII. So that's back to "A", to answer the question. But who am I to criticise without trying to solve the problem? Here are some ideas I've had that we can do to try to fix it and make us "C".

The Royal Role Players Society
I think this is an area EoFF really could do with focusing on. The RP forum is buried away deep inside the Writer's Corner, and as it was obviously such a popular part of the forums, that's clearly not how it should be.

Perhaps we could also get a new roleplaying CK in to replace Void. Maybe the Events Committee could have events encouraging people to take part and have a go. I think we might also need to reach out to Void himself, as he has strong links with the RP community, to get him to encourage his friends to show up here for such events! We should also try to get the members I listed earlier back, as they were a huge part of the RP forum.

The Final Fantasy crew
I think FFXI was greatly underutilised by EoFF. As said before, it does have the lowest amount of posts for any of the games since VI. And yet it's an MMORPG! And the crucial difference between an MMORPG and a single player console RPG is that there's always something new to do, always something to talk about - the discussion should never get boring!

EoFF should work hard to try to promote the game. I think the staff members who play XI (such as Del Murder, Loony BoB and Levian - sorry to try to make you guys do work and all, but hey, I did plenty for XIII so :p to the lot of you!) should spearhead a campaign to encourage EoFFers to get the game and play it. And what's more, play it together. If at all possible, EoFF should try to get together on one server, and form a supergroup (or clan or guild or linkshell or whatever the smurf they're called) on it. People on that server will see EoFFers, being, well, EoFFers, and want to join the group and thus the forums. Hopefully as players, these new members will want to contribute information to the front site too, and who knows, maybe EoFF could become a well-known resource for FFXIV! I'm sure the people who have played XI will have more and better ideas than me, though.

Another change coming in that I am excited about with regards to Final Fantasy is the integrated front site and forums, with the fancy pants content management system. It'll be very easy to both submit and access FF content for our users. Of course, to coincide with this, there should also be more encouragement to our existing members to submit content and volunteer their help for the frontsite.

The General Mob
I think we do need some fresh blood in the General Mob. There's still new names rising to prominence, such as my presidential rival, Mr. Guardian XIII (how many of you had heard of him 12 months ago? Exactly! The system works!) but I'd like to see a lot more.

So maybe there's a twofold problem - newbies not sticking around, and members from the Final Fantasy forums not making the transition to the General forums. Perhaps in both cases they can feel intimidated by the "everyone knows your name" environment we got going on here. Maybe we could set up a scheme - and not a newbie mentoring scheme, I hasten to add! - where our existing members set out to make a new friend by PMing someone whose user name they don't recognise and striking up a conversation with them. Just to make them feel like a part of the community rather than being an outsider. It's what made me stick around, after all. :greenie:

Summary: I think activity will be slightly higher in 2010 than in the last two years, but unless we take some steps now to change things, it will slide downwards again.

Thank you for reading. Vote Zombie :zombie:

Election Booth
04-13-2010, 02:45 PM
Mandalore, you've got 12 hours to have a rebuttal!

Jiro
04-13-2010, 03:14 PM
I would just to like to say personally that I found that post of Paul's to be amazing.

Marshall Banana
04-13-2010, 03:40 PM
I ought to throw you down a shaft, Emperor!

Edit: Please change my post icon to a strawberry! For some reason, I'm unable to post except through Quick Reply. I see an error page after I try to save changes, etc.

Edit #2: Nevermind!

Ultima Shadow
04-13-2010, 04:15 PM
*is back and has finally had the time to read everything up to this point*

Nice going Psy, that was one very insightful post.

Aerith's Knight
04-13-2010, 04:32 PM
Not to mention, I've thought of a way to keep out the spam from General Chat.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9302/54721202.png (http://img90.imageshack.us/i/54721202.png/)

Freya
04-13-2010, 07:26 PM
I read the tl;dr post cause it had pretty colors :D

Mo-Nercy
04-13-2010, 11:42 PM
Bang up job, Psy.

Levian
04-14-2010, 12:18 AM
EoFF should work hard to try to promote the game. I think the staff members who play XI (such as Del Murder, Loony BoB and Levian - sorry to try to make you guys do work and all, but hey, I did plenty for XIII so :p to the lot of you!)

I don't mind you trying to make me work, the tongue smiley however is something I mind :colbert:

Given that Europe doesn't get FFXIV later than North America, I will definitely be there to promote and help organize and gather EoFF on FFXIV.

Regarding FFXIV frontsite stuff and resources I don't think we have a snowball's chance in hell to compete against large wiki sites such as Alakhazam and FFXIclopedia was for FFXI. But what we can do is make sure that everyone who comes here and wants to play FFXIV will immediately be a part of our group and will have someone to gain exp, do quests and missions with, etc. I think we're better off taking the community route than giving information about everything route. As for the frontsite, we should put up some general info about races, the world, nations, jobs and such. Things that will make us show up for FFXIV searches in google and draw members in, and things that are useful for people that don't know where to begin with this game.

Jessweeee♪
04-14-2010, 12:36 AM
Yeah, it'd be pretty tough to be thorough about it. Just some basic stuff and the most commonly requested information by novice players such as myself xD

I Don't Need A Name
04-14-2010, 01:34 AM
Maybe we could set up a scheme - and not a newbie mentoring scheme, I hasten to add! - where our existing members set out to make a new friend by PMing someone whose user name they don't recognise and striking up a conversation with them. Just to make them feel like a part of the community rather than being an outsider. It's what made me stick around, after all. :greenie:

Me and Freya already did that, sort of, with Aibbie. Introducing her to EoFFers :bigsmile:

That post shows that Paul actually does have a brain, and a good one at that :)

I'll applaud your effort, and hope Eric XIII has an as good, if not better, post on the 501st's behalf

Psychotic
04-14-2010, 01:37 AM
Thanks folks. I am glad people read it and enjoyed it! :shobon:

Goldenboko
04-14-2010, 01:46 AM
Members should take it upon themselves to pm newbs. If the person seems cool and to you want them to stick around, pm them! If you don't you can't complain when they decide not to stick around.

Del Murder
04-14-2010, 01:49 AM
These debates are tough because our parties weren't formed based on any ideal, it was just 'choose the one that looks the coolest'. So many of us take the same stance on these issues, and when we have to 'rebut' it feels like debate class where you have to take the opposing stance even if you disagree with it.

So I agree with most of what Psy said and it was a very good post. Unfortunately, it's far too late to jump start the FFXI forum since that game is in it's later days and will soon be overshadowed by FFXIV. There are already entire forums and wikis dedicated to this game and for EoFF to try and compete would be laughable. Trying to get new people interested in the game is hard because of the time required to start from the beginning, especially these days with most players being veterans in the 'end game' stage.

As I've said to the staff, FFXIV has a huge potential for bringing in new members but that requires good promotion and a site staff dedicated to keeping up with the latest in the game. Hopefully we can achieve something like that.

Mo-Nercy
04-14-2010, 01:53 AM
So maybe there's a twofold problem - newbies not sticking around, and members from the Final Fantasy forums not making the transition to the General forums.
What about those of us who post regularly in both the lower half and General sections of the forums? We're just awesome, right?


Members should take it upon themselves to pm newbs. If the person seems cool and to you want them to stick around, pm them! If you don't you can't complain when they decide not to stick around.
I've been doing this a bit too, especially those that are friendly enough to make an introduction thread in the Wonder Square.
I also reckon not enough of us welcome newbies. We should all want the forums to surge back to the good ol' days of 2005-06 and something as simple as dropping in on their thread to say 'hello' can help.

G13
04-14-2010, 02:02 AM
If it seems rushed, it is. I saw that I had 12 hours to post about 3 hours ago. Tip o' the hat to Psy though for wicked long, wicked good post.



When I first joined EoFF almost four years ago I immediately began posting in the lower forums. I joined a Final Fantasy forum so why not post about Final Fantasy? I steered clear of the General Forums because the atmosphere was intimidating. I felt like I would be judged or something for jumping into a conversation between longtime friends. I’d like to think that I’m not alone in feeling that. Since becoming active again I’ve seen a lot of new members pass through, and the ones that stuck around I can count on one hand.

An uninviting atmosphere is what we have all throughout the forums. If a newbie posts something in the wrong forum they get a stoic reprimanding, not a friendly heads-up. When posting they are simply ignored. Not a lot of people go out of their way to invite them in their introductory posts, and if they do they overwhelm them with inside jokes of “Don’t trust so-and-so” or trying to recruit them to a party they know nothing about. It’s not just regular members behaving this way, mods are generally unsocial too. Before anyone says “But I talk to {insert new member name here} on a regular basis” let me ask this, what does that one new member that you talk to have that the others don’t? On that note, why not treat all members, new and old, like they’re important?

This brings me to my next thought: older members leaving. Site inactivity, problems with other members, real life problems, or just growing out of the internet phase has people leaving. It’s not uncommon. Everyone gets older, and with age comes maturity. Maybe a member will decide one day that real life is where it’s at and being part of an online community is keeping them from it. It can be as sudden as that or, using the latest prank as an example, thought about long and hard by a member. Either way we have no choice but to let that member go as mind control devices have yet to be invented.

That concludes my “We, the members” part of my speech. Enter “It’s all Squenix’s fault”.

Let’s face it, the latest installments of the Final Fantasy franchise have been less than desirable. While they can be fun to play, they lack the spice that earlier FF titles had. Less people interested in them means less people talking about them and that means a decrease in posting. The young ‘uns finding us and joining up because of these games are not getting the discussions they expected. Also, we’ve covered just about everything that can be covered. No one wants to keep talking about “---“ when a new member makes another thread about “---”. (That part’s not really Squenix’s fault but I decided to throw it in there anyways)

How can we fix this decline?

I have no idea. Like I said before, we can’t stop people from leaving and we definitely can’t make people post. If I had to come up with a grand plan on my own and only had 24 hours to do it you could expect zero results, but luckily I have a good team around me.


Never underestimate the power of eye candy! If the front site and forums had a truly impressive look, I don't doubt that more members would be drawn in!

I don’t know about the forums but if the frontsite were spiffed up a bit what would stop potential members from taking a look. I realize it takes a lot of work to maintain the frontsite but switching some stuff around and making it look less cluttered (not my words) might help more than we think.


Maybe "General Gaming Discussion" should be promoted to a forum category one day - instead of remaining under "General" - with its own forums. What exactly they should be I don't know (MMOs for one?). As it stands, though, I have to go to a different forum if I want to actually discuss Etrian Odyssey 3 or its predecessors.


I think that an official EoFF mascot (Mr. Moogle to compliment Mognet Messages or Mr. Chocobo) is better suited to do this, though - assuming someone is up to the job!

Artemicion maybe?


I would say, axe the ciddies, cause it makes some people (me included over the years) feel rather alienated.

I don’t agree that we should “axe” the ciddies, but maybe refine them a little. It does indeed alienate members and it turns into a big popularity contest.


Open up an Ivalice forum? So vagrant story, reverant wings etc can be discussed plus any updates on FF Fortress.

Also, why not continue the Eyes on Plays event with other games? The Pokemon players have their thread up in General Gaming. Why not make that an actual event? Have multiple ones going on even. Eyes on Plays {insert rpg name}. The members could have loads of fun and the site will benefit from lots of activity.


In the future will the trend...
A. Continue downward
B. Level out
C. Begin to reverse to the upward direction

If nothing changes we most certainly will continue downward. What changes need to be made is the real question. We are but humble Legionnaires, all we can do is make the suggestions and do our best to help follow them though. :vader:

I Don't Need A Name
04-14-2010, 02:06 AM
I will state that the 'axing' of the ciddies was a hyperbolic comment, but with a meaning, as shown ;)

Great post there man. Good job :)

Psychotic
04-14-2010, 02:09 AM
ah crap I just realised I said we should promote XI - yeah that ship has sailed. I meant XIV but didn't say so xD oops.

Good post. I'm not trying to rebut it here or anything, just wanted to comment on a couple of things.
I steered clear of the General Forums because the atmosphere was intimidating. I felt like I would be judged or something for jumping into a conversation between longtime friends.Haha, you know, I felt exactly the same way all those years ago. I didn't think I was worthy of posting in General Chat until I had a custom title. How funny is that?
If a newbie posts something in the wrong forum they get a stoic reprimanding, not a friendly heads-up. I'd like to disagree with this bit of it though, I always try to be very friendly when moving threads, especially when it's a new member involved.

And now I guess it's voting time?

I Don't Need A Name
04-14-2010, 02:22 AM
I steered clear of the General Forums because the atmosphere was intimidating. I felt like I would be judged or something for jumping into a conversation between longtime friends.
Haha, you know, I felt exactly the same way all those years ago. I didn't think I was worthy of posting in General Chat until I had a custom title. How funny is that?

Hell, I still feel like that having been a steady member for 5 years!

Mo-Nercy
04-14-2010, 02:30 AM
I steered clear of the General Forums because the atmosphere was intimidating. I felt like I would be judged or something for jumping into a conversation between longtime friends.
Haha, you know, I felt exactly the same way all those years ago. I didn't think I was worthy of posting in General Chat until I had a custom title. How funny is that?

Hell, I still feel like that having been a steady member for 5 years!
Hell, I still feel like that having been a steady member for 5 8 years!

Jessweeee♪
04-14-2010, 02:31 AM
Aw :(


I don't remember much. I know I only posted in FFVIII at first. I posted in maybe one GC thread, and that thread was called "How much do you value peas?" with a :mad2: icon. Or maybe I just looked at it and thought "huh you know maybe I should post in this General section." I think maybe I just wasn't interested, because I was more active at a Pokemon forum that's currently dead so my non-FF related thoughts would be posted there xD

G13
04-14-2010, 02:33 AM
If a newbie posts something in the wrong forum they get a stoic reprimanding, not a friendly heads-up. I'd like to disagree with this bit of it though, I always try to be very friendly when moving threads, especially when it's a new member involved.

Oh yeah? What about MercenX's Pyramid Head thread? :colbert:













:lol: Just kidding.

To be honest, I could only think of a few instances I've seen that happen, and I'm 99% sure it wasn't you.

Election Booth
04-14-2010, 02:36 AM
Awesome job guys!

Election Booth
04-14-2010, 03:22 AM
Also here are the links to the party forums!

Zombie Party (http://z7.invisionfree.com/whyimjustified/index.php)
501st Legion (http://s7.invisionfree.com/501st_Party_Forum/index.php)

Psychotic
04-14-2010, 03:35 AM
Wow you were really uninspired with their forum name.

edit:
The walrus can't win every election. Especially when it isn't attatched to the BAotW title. I have won precisely one election of four previous ones entered. And neither of my BAoTW campaigns were successful (SECOND PLACE FOREVER :() It was The Party. :p

NorthernChaosGod
04-14-2010, 03:49 AM
I can't see their posts. :colbert:

Psychotic
04-14-2010, 03:52 AM
Quick! edit all the posts where we called him a potato to say nice things! :shifty:

G13
04-14-2010, 03:53 AM
The newest member is 501st SUCKS FARTS

xD Who is this?

qwertysaur
04-14-2010, 03:53 AM
*rushes*

Edit: not me :bigsmile:

Jessweeee♪
04-14-2010, 04:09 AM
Wow you were really uninspired with their forum name.

edit:
The walrus can't win every election. Especially when it isn't attatched to the BAotW title. I have won precisely one election of four previous ones entered. And neither of my BAoTW campaigns were successful (SECOND PLACE FOREVER :() It was The Party. :p

What, don't you know? You win every award in every contest ever because you're that Psychotic guy who sweeps everything because they're all popularity contests and all that jazz :spin:

NorthernChaosGod
04-14-2010, 04:52 AM
Quick! edit all the posts where we called him a potato to say nice things! :shifty:

:doublecolbert:

You cheeky smurfers.

Jiro
04-14-2010, 05:13 AM
I can't open any of the threads in either forum from here, so somebody tell me who I'm meant to be angry at!

Psychotic
04-14-2010, 05:33 AM
I think I said you guys weren't political genius masterminds, if that counts for something.

Although I kind of meant it in a conniving machiavelian way rather than a "hurr, they r dumb" way. Of course, you guys totally are dumb :zombert:

G13
04-14-2010, 06:30 AM
Then why do you want our brains so badly? :smug:

Psychotic
04-14-2010, 06:39 AM
Removing 'em from the genepool. :goofy:

NorthernChaosGod
04-14-2010, 07:30 AM
I can't open any of the threads in either forum from here, so somebody tell me who I'm meant to be angry at!

They wanted to cheat and plant a sleeper agent in our party so they can just see our arguments.

So all of them.

Jiro
04-14-2010, 02:53 PM
Now he says to get new members is to greatly expand the frontsite. Since he is sure that won't work, then it's an unsolvable problem and he wont deal with it.
I don't think you understood my drunken metaphor at all dude! I didn't mention the frontsite at all. I said the Final Fantasy franchise needs to change because it is the thing that gives life to the forums and to the people who would join the forums.

Did you get my Krogan metaphor? Did you? I feel offended, I put so much effort into that metaphor and you didn't even get it :(

Psychotic
04-14-2010, 02:55 PM
They wanted to cheat and plant a sleeper agent in our party so they can just see our arguments.

So all of them.Except for the part where I said no and we didn't do it. :greenie:

qwertysaur
04-14-2010, 03:11 PM
Now he says to get new members is to greatly expand the frontsite. Since he is sure that won't work, then it's an unsolvable problem and he wont deal with it.
I don't think you understood my drunken metaphor at all dude! I didn't mention the frontsite at all. I said the Final Fantasy franchise needs to change because it is the thing that gives life to the forums and to the people who would join the forums.

Did you get my Krogan metaphor? Did you? I feel offended, I put so much effort into that metaphor and you didn't even get it :(
It's a message hinting that you should submit stuff for the frontsite. Yes, you too person reading this post. You can do something like a guide for the bonus dungeons in FF I DoS or something. :p

Jiro
04-14-2010, 03:14 PM
Now he says to get new members is to greatly expand the frontsite. Since he is sure that won't work, then it's an unsolvable problem and he wont deal with it.
I don't think you understood my drunken metaphor at all dude! I didn't mention the frontsite at all. I said the Final Fantasy franchise needs to change because it is the thing that gives life to the forums and to the people who would join the forums.

Did you get my Krogan metaphor? Did you? I feel offended, I put so much effort into that metaphor and you didn't even get it :(
It's a message hinting that you should submit stuff for the frontsite. Yes, you too person reading this post. You can do something like a guide for the bonus dungeons in FF I DoS or something. :p
I would help out, if only I had access to these games. But I don't, and I also am horrible at writing guides and everybody else has already started doing :bou::bou::bou::bou: and I feel like I'm stepping on toes. This is why I am a lazy bastard

G13
04-14-2010, 03:50 PM
They wanted to cheat and plant a sleeper agent in our party so they can just see our arguments.

So all of them.Except for the part where I said no and we didn't do it. :greenie:

That wasn't you, that was EB! DON'T TRY TO LIE, I CAN SEE IT RIGHT NOW! :mad2: + :colbert:

(we need a mad colbert)

Also, I find it hilarious that no one seems to care about the information qwerty "dug up" on us. :lol:

Jessweeee♪
04-14-2010, 06:30 PM
Then why do you want our brains so badly? :smug:

Well you know how candy lacks substance but you eat it anyway because it tastes good? It's like that :</>D!

Hollycat
04-14-2010, 06:33 PM
Im gonna go ask a cactuar, I don't understand this thread.
But here!!!

NorthernChaosGod
04-14-2010, 07:59 PM
They wanted to cheat and plant a sleeper agent in our party so they can just see our arguments.

So all of them.Except for the part where I said no and we didn't do it. :greenie:

Only because EB came and laid the smack down. :doublecolbert:

Psychotic
04-14-2010, 08:19 PM
I said no to it before EB posted. :zombert:

I guess I probably should've waited until after the elections to eat your brains, as you guys sure could use them to read that thread properly. :p

demondude
04-14-2010, 10:39 PM
Give me my real username back. :(

Goldenboko
04-15-2010, 02:53 AM
Cry about it DD. Cry about it.

demondude
04-15-2010, 11:08 AM
I will. :mad2:

Huckleberry Quin
04-15-2010, 01:42 PM
What the hell did I miss? xD

Hollycat
04-15-2010, 02:47 PM
Demondude 55, here is your name back [in the form of a sticky note] and a small basket of assorted cheesses

demondude
04-15-2010, 03:03 PM
I've always wanted a small basket of assorted cheeses. :blush:

Goldenboko
04-15-2010, 03:44 PM
nom nom nom.

Oh wait, those were for DD?

demondude
04-15-2010, 03:45 PM
Back to crying in a dark room I suppose. :(

qwertysaur
04-15-2010, 03:47 PM
It's OK, I have cookies :cookie:

Huckleberry Quin
04-15-2010, 11:16 PM
I haven't had a shower for three weeks, so there's plenty of cheese here if you want it, DD. :love:

demondude
04-16-2010, 12:12 PM
*gets on knees and munches*

~*~Celes~*~
04-16-2010, 01:58 PM
how about some wine to go with that cheese?

*hands you a carton filled with fine wines*

Jiro
04-16-2010, 03:55 PM
What the fuck is happening in here

demondude
04-16-2010, 04:58 PM
TURN THE LIGHTS BACK OFF! TURN THE LIGHTS BACK OFF!

Huckleberry Quin
04-16-2010, 04:59 PM
*zip*

NorthernChaosGod
04-16-2010, 11:14 PM
*walks away slowly*

demondude
04-17-2010, 01:22 AM
*wipes mouth*

Goldenboko
04-17-2010, 01:42 AM
*wipes mouth*

Do you even think?

qwertysaur
04-17-2010, 02:01 AM
He lets his pet llama do the thinking :p

demondude
04-17-2010, 10:59 AM
My pet llama died when I tried new methods of insertion.

And whatchu talkin' 'bout Boko. >:3