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View Full Version : Why can't Square make more games like FFIX?



reinward
05-09-2010, 12:21 AM
FFIX was the first Final Fantasy game I ever played and my all time favorite game period. The other FF's are great (especially X), but why can't they go back to the romantic, charming setting/atmosphere of 9? there are too many futuristic out there already!!! (im looking at all those first person shooter games out there :0)

Depression Moon
05-09-2010, 12:22 AM
Because Sakaguchi left.

Hot Shot
05-09-2010, 12:43 AM
FF IX is awesome, its my joint favourite with X. But I have to disagree with you reinward because I think that X is romantic and has a charming setting/atmosphere (ok, not quite charming in the same way, but it's still quite charming) and it did pull you into the game, making the experience the same. But I do know what you mean IX had a sort of 'magical' quality that no other FF following it has (and doubt ever will) match or better. For me, IX is the epitome of fantasy as the world, characters and story is fantastical.

Jessweeee♪
05-09-2010, 06:14 AM
I haven't really played it much so feel free to correctly, but wouldn't FFV be kinda like it? And FFVI?

Zeromus
05-10-2010, 12:52 AM
Yeah... I Agree... There is too much futuristic games out there... FF series started with a medieval atmosphere... then why they just came and changed that =( ?!!!
It's like if Age Of Empires started to be like Star Craft... I mean... both styles (medieval and futuristic) have their good and their bad things, and it's a thing about personal appreciations... but... hey...! Why do they have to change things?... Pears should always be pears! and should never become apples...! xD

I hate changes in videogame sagas... I hated, in example, the change in Metroid saga when they turned a side-scroll platform game into a first-person shooter >=( ... And things like that...

I mean... it's ok to explore another genres and elements in your work, but people who love your work for what it is is the people who will support your work... if you send that people away by removing the reasons why they started to love your work... you are just condemning yourself...

Square should think about this... they are sending away a lot of people who has been loving the elements of their works since so many years... It's not about evolving... it's about removing the loved things!... But it's true... Sakaguchi left... and that one is one of the main reasons of why things are turning out like this... and... in my personal point of view... that is the death sentence for the series too... =(

L9999
05-10-2010, 01:14 AM
Because it's not SquareSoft anymore - it's Square Enix now.
And with the new name, they have a new team, with all the good ones leaving to Mistwlaker (can't blame them), they have a new vision of what a Final Fantasy is, something like a playable-ish Jdrama, they have new market strategies, making remakes and spin offs, they want to "innovate" while taking out of Final Fantasies all the good stuff we used to love - solid story, character interaction, prominent fantasy themes... heck, it's called final FANTASY - I don't want it to be as real-life as possible, I don't want it to be all japanese guys and girls, I want it to be a fantasy. I want my Qus and my Moombas and my Cait Sith and my moogles and all the fantasy stuff. I want the magic. I don't want an anonymous game with Final Fantasy icons thrown in. I want a real, coherent Final Fantasy world - like FFIX was, or FFX, or every other FF before X-2.


(Yes I despise Enix very very very very much :D)

Elly
05-11-2010, 04:08 AM
because IX was a tribute and the Swan Song to all FFs prior to it, it was actualy originaly marketed as a tribute, it was their way of saying goodbye to old outdated conventions while giving what they thaught was the best sendoff they could... of course years later they negated that sentiment by making enhanced ports and remakes of I-VI... ironicly i'm still waiting for those V&VI remakes, i hope they don't mess up the VI remake like they did with the enhanced port by removing the torture scene...

Breine
05-11-2010, 09:44 AM
As already said Final Fantasy IX was a tribute to the earlier games in the series. So, if you want FFs that are more like FFIX, you should play the old ones I suppose.

EDIT: Or maybe FFXII - which I don't consider to be futuristic at all.

Rase
05-11-2010, 04:28 PM
Because it's not SquareSoft anymore - it's Square Enix now.
And with the new name, they have a new team, with all the good ones leaving to Mistwlaker (can't blame them), they have a new vision of what a Final Fantasy is, something like a playable-ish Jdrama, they have new market strategies, making remakes and spin offs, they want to "innovate" while taking out of Final Fantasies all the good stuff we used to love - solid story, character interaction, prominent fantasy themes... heck, it's called final FANTASY - I don't want it to be as real-life as possible, I don't want it to be all japanese guys and girls, I want it to be a fantasy. I want my Qus and my Moombas and my Cait Sith and my moogles and all the fantasy stuff. I want the magic. I don't want an anonymous game with Final Fantasy icons thrown in. I want a real, coherent Final Fantasy world - like FFIX was, or FFX, or every other FF before X-2.


(Yes I despise Enix very very very very much :D)
X-2 was Square Co. also if I remember correctly. Also, I feel that since the only noticeable difference in any of the company's combined series is in FF it's safe to say Square freely "screwed up" the series themselves. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the merger was purely business, and the teams in the respective company's remained largely unchanged and free to continue doing as they wished.

I think Square does not have faith in a game like FFIX selling on it's own merits in this current market. They have long been the company of "over-the-top cutscenes" and "games that play themselves", so why stop now when games keep selling?

seiferalmasy2
05-11-2010, 05:07 PM
Because making another IX means being original and placing brain power in at the expense of cheap gimmicks for maximum money. And as stated a lot of the talent has disappeared to mist walker, with the enix merger sealing the coffin.

L9999
05-11-2010, 07:39 PM
Because making another IX means being original and placing brain power in at the expense of cheap gimmicks for maximum money. And as stated a lot of the talent has disappeared to mist walker, with the enix merger sealing the coffin.

I AGREE. I AGREE. I AGREE FOREVER AND EVER.

And @Rase, as far as I know Square had already merged with Enix when they produced FFX-2. My copy has "SquareEnix" slapped on it anyway.
Though I do agree that they stopped going down that way they started with FFIX because they know games like that won't sell. Gamers now are lazier.. and Japan-crazed. They want a movie-like game where whether they have the pad in hand or not doesn't change a thing because you're just there to sit in front of the screen and marvel at the graphics and drool at the bishies... hah. Lazy and Japan crazed, I say.

ReloadPsi
05-11-2010, 07:50 PM
Because that would be a good idea. Square-Enix hate those.

ANGRYWOLF
05-11-2010, 09:36 PM
Because it's not SquareSoft anymore - it's Square Enix now.
And with the new name, they have a new team, with all the good ones leaving to Mistwlaker (can't blame them), they have a new vision of what a Final Fantasy is, something like a playable-ish Jdrama, they have new market strategies, making remakes and spin offs, they want to "innovate" while taking out of Final Fantasies all the good stuff we used to love - solid story, character interaction, prominent fantasy themes... heck, it's called final FANTASY - I don't want it to be as real-life as possible, I don't want it to be all japanese guys and girls, I want it to be a fantasy. I want my Qus and my Moombas and my Cait Sith and my moogles and all the fantasy stuff. I want the magic. I don't want an anonymous game with Final Fantasy icons thrown in. I want a real, coherent Final Fantasy world - like FFIX was, or FFX, or every other FF before X-2.


(Yes I despise Enix very very very very much :D)
X-2 was Square Co. also if I remember correctly. Also, I feel that since the only noticeable difference in any of the company's combined series is in FF it's safe to say Square freely "screwed up" the series themselves. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the merger was purely business, and the teams in the respective company's remained largely unchanged and free to continue doing as they wished.

I think Square does not have faith in a game like FFIX selling on it's own merits in this current market. They have long been the company of "over-the-top cutscenes" and "games that play themselves", so why stop now when games keep selling?

any assertion that the companies that make up Square, once they were acquired were free to continue doing as they wished.

I believe Square took steps to curtail games they saw as competing with FF and their Dragon game..the Ogre Battle games are an example of that..and they abandoned other games such as the Chrono and Mana games altogether.

:mad:

The only way we'll ever see a return to the games like FFIX is a complete collapse at Square and a reshuffling of their developement team.

Rase
05-12-2010, 02:18 AM
And @Rase, as far as I know Square had already merged with Enix when they produced FFX-2. My copy has "SquareEnix" slapped on it anyway.
Noted. I don't have a copy, so I was just going by release date vs. date of merger.


[Certainly not true...] any assertion that the companies that make up Square, once they were acquired were free to continue doing as they wished.
I'm assuming you mean teams, not companies. I don't know either way what the teams did when the merger happened, only that there were 10 total: Square 1 (Yoshinori Kitase, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts), 2 (Akitoshi Kawazu, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles), 3 (Hiromichi Tanaka, Final Fantasy), 4 (Yasumi Matsuno, Final Fantasy, Ogre Battle), 5 (Yusuke Hirata, All Star Pro-Wrestling), 6 (Toshiro Tsuchida, Front Mission), 7 (Takashi Tokita, Hanjuku Hero), and 8 (Koichi Ishii, Mana), and then Enix 1 (Ari Miyake, Dragon Quest) and 2 (Yosuke Saito, other games). Since then I'm sure things have changed, but I'm also sure that Square Enix didn't stop any franchises they thought they could make a good amount of money on.


I believe Square took steps to curtail games they saw as competing with FF and their Dragon game..the Ogre Battle games are an example of that..and they abandoned other games such as the Chrono and Mana games altogether.
I highly doubt the Ogre Battle games ever did numbers close to those of Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, and the last one was on the Neo Geo Pocket Color back on 2000. I'm willing to bet that the team was not able to get a project greenlighted or simply has not had the time before considering any fear of the game "stealing" sales from the companies core franchises. If I remember correctly the key players in the Chrono games have said they would want all people on board before making another, and a few of these people have their own studios now so that isn't likely. Square tried to continue the Mana series but Koichi Ishii screwed up Dawn of Mana so they reined him back to handheld games. Simple business.



The only way we'll ever see a return to the games like FFIX is a complete collapse at Square and a reshuffling of their developement team.
I'm sure fans of FFII back in the day were lamenting the same way when III and IV came out. Final Fantasy games are all unique, so condemning the series because the more recent ones don't grab you seems rather silly.

ANGRYWOLF
05-12-2010, 02:33 AM
The Ogre Battle games had quite a loyal following.

As for Dragon Quest I've never played it nor have I ever felt interested in it.:roll2

I certainly believe ending certain series was motivated by competitive fears. The last poster is of course free to believe whatever he chooses.:p

Square seems to be farming out certain gaming...they own the rights to Nier it seems although the graphics for Nier are poor and the game seems dated in certain respects.I wonder why they bothered to allow a subcontractor, it seems, to make a game with their name attached to it that may not do well when they could have done another Ogre battle, mana or chrono game and gotten much better sales than they will ever receive from Nier.

shrugs.

Some questionable decision making being done by Square.:mad:

seiferalmasy2
05-13-2010, 12:01 AM
Final Fantasy games are all unique, so condemning the series because the more recent ones don't grab you seems rather silly.

I think that is the point that is being made, they are unique as in dumbed down, less playability, more out of control graphics than substance, over commercialisation. In short, X-2, XII and XIII have caused more debate and division than anything that preceded them and for good reason.

To suggest that these games are getting panned for nothing and that being unique is some sort of valid excuse is more silly. Reminds me of other failed retorts, the very best of course is:

"If you don't like it, then don't play it anymore."

Rad Bromance
05-13-2010, 02:24 AM
FF series started with a medieval atmosphere...
Uh, no...no it didn't. Swords and Armor don't automatically equal medieval, and ninjas/blackbelts sure as hell wouldn't be running around if it was a medieval setting.

It had influence from medieval lore, certainly, as have nearly all the FF games since. FF games however, started having "futuristic" elements as early as IV, but no one started complaining until VII, because VII is evil and oh so cool to hate now and ruined everything in the eyes of those blinded by nostalgia.

tl;dr, etc.

Skyblade
05-13-2010, 08:22 AM
Noooo, FFVII is still cool. It's the FFVII COMPENDIUM that sucks.

As I've said in other forums, Square seems to have lost the whimsical side of themselves, and with it goes great games like IX.

Rase
05-13-2010, 06:44 PM
The Ogre Battle games had quite a loyal following.
Mother also has a loyal following, doesn't mean HAL/Nintendo are gonna keep making them. Three games in twenty years doesn't really scream "support" to me. I'm sure there's a nice following for Crystalis also, but I don't see SNK working on another game for it.


As for Dragon Quest I've never played it nor have I ever felt interested in it.:roll2
Aw. In all honesty you should give VIII a try if you can find it, or the DS remakes. Classic JRPG awesomeness with nice personality and fun gameplay.


I certainly believe ending certain series was motivated by competitive fears. The last poster is of course free to believe whatever he chooses.:p
Thanks, I tend to. Helps when my belief's don't sound like conspiracy theories.


Square seems to be farming out certain gaming...they own the rights to Nier it seems although the graphics for Nier are poor and the game seems dated in certain respects.I wonder why they bothered to allow a subcontractor, it seems, to make a game with their name attached to it that may not do well when they could have done another Ogre battle, mana or chrono game and gotten much better sales than they will ever receive from Nier.
Probably because publishing a game is cheaper than making one. Also, with that logic why should Square try anything new? It may not sell well, they should just stick with three or four series and hope they don't screw them up (oh wait, already did that with Mana). Also, Nier opened at the highest place for it's week in Japan. Just saying.


Some questionable decision making being done by Square.:mad:
What else is new? Hasn't this been the mantra of fans since FFXI was announced to be an MMO?



Final Fantasy games are all unique, so condemning the series because the more recent ones don't grab you seems rather silly.

I think that is the point that is being made, they are unique as in dumbed down, less playability, more out of control graphics than substance, over commercialisation. In short, X-2, XII and XIII have caused more debate and division than anything that preceded them and for good reason.
That was more directed at those who seem to think the series is doomed forever just because the last few games have not appealed to them personally.

Square is always messing with the playability and often looks to be dumbing things down. The Materia system is just a step back from the Esper system to me, which is a step back from the Job system of FFV. Square has been nuts on trying to push graphics since the series really got going (FFVI blew me away because I didn't think some things could be done on the SNES when I first played it).

I think it's good for debate and division to happen within a series. To me it shows the developers trying things that they may not have before for some reason, and taking some risks to see how the fanbase reacts. Plenty of people bitched about XII's non-linearity and combat system, so they revised these aspects heavily for XIII. Now people are bitching again, which I hope will help them in striking a balance. Maybe I'm just optimistic, with a hint of "who cares".


To suggest that these games are getting panned for nothing and that being unique is some sort of valid excuse is more silly.
Sure am glad I didn't suggest that than. If you inferred it, your deal.


Reminds me of other failed retorts, the very best of course is:

"If you don't like it, then don't play it anymore."
Always stands true. :p

ReloadPsi
05-13-2010, 07:38 PM
Noooo, FFVII is still cool. It's the FFVII COMPENDIUM that sucks.

Although I can no longer bring myself to play FFVII because of it. I just don't love it any more :(

ANGRYWOLF
05-13-2010, 08:29 PM
loyal fans buy games.:tongue:

It's up to the company to make more games.If they don't it's their fault.
shrugs..Believe in conspiracies or don't believe in them.I don't believe in all of them.But conspiracies as you call them..I don't consider deciding behind closed doors to discontinue making a certain line of games a conspiracy..you might call it that..It can be either a good business decision or a bad one.Deciding to discontinue the Ogre Battle series was in my opinion a bad business decision.

As far as Nier goes if you watch the videos of the game you can see it won't sell here in the US. The graphics might be the worse I have seen for a PS3 game.
Thee reviews I have seen aren't good.
and Square's name is attached to it.

Square did screw up with mana and there are indications they have screwed up FF after the last two duds..FFXII and FFXIII they have produced.
Doesn't mean they can't fix it.Verses might be the fix the series needs but the jury is still out on that.We don't know yet.

The FF fans are fans.Might as well tell someone to cut off their right arm as to tell them to quit playing because they've had to tolerate a couple of poorly made FF games.
Telling a fan to quit playing is a cop out anyway.:p

There aren't that many massive console rpgs out there other than Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2.If you don't play MMOs where are you going to get your rpg "fix" these days ?
shrugs.:mad:

Dragon quest wiki:

Dragon Quest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Quest)