Snow Estheim?

[Future Esthar]

Nora says "mums are though" twice.
The first time it makes sense since she was trying to protect Hope.

But on the second time it´s out of context.
What is the logic of saying that after saving Snow?
In this case she was not doing anything specifically to protect Hope.
She had the strenght to do that not because of motherwood.
She was protecting the faccion leader.
Unless...
She smiles before she falls by the way.

[Sephiroth]

Hope is not with her during that moment but she is still a mother.

That doesn't mean she is Snow's mother.

[Future Esthar]

Yes but it´s out of context.
She is basically saying:
"Hey Snow,I couldn´t let you die because my mother´s heart would not enable that.That is what gave me strength"

This only mades sense if he is Hope´s big bro.

She also told him to protect Hope and smiles before falling.

Hope stinctively knows this and that´s also what makes him whine even if he isn´t conscious of this.Not just his mother´s death.

[Sephiroth]

I know all these scenes and the only thing I can see here is you are a fan of theories like many threads tell me. You shouldn't think too much about things like that because they were not relevant enough for Square. Final Fantasy is no science or something like that. You want things to have more meaning than they really have.

EDIT: Oh, please. You cannot correct my sentences. Of all people here I am the one who really knows all the lines of every Final Fantasy and I even know them in three different languages. Plus you say you can show me a more convincing proof, but it is not a proof it is an argument which is completely nothingness. So please don't try to correct me just because you have theories because I am the one who really tells everyone only Square can know the truth about Final Fantasy and so I mark all their words and this line you want to have this special meaning simply does not exist with this meaning. That's like "Rinoa is controlled by Ultimecia - oh, hey - let's start the theory Rinoa is Ultimecia!".

[Jings]

I dunno about all this, I just know I cringed uncontrollably at that line.

[Persephone Stephanie]

Yes but it´s out of context.
She is basically saying:
"Hey Snow,I couldn´t let you die because my mother´s heart would not enable that.That is what gave me strength"

This only mades sense if he is Hope´s big bro.

She also told him to protect Hope and smiles before falling.

Hope stinctively knows this and that´s also what makes him whine even if he isn´t conscious of this.Not just his mother´s death.

No, she is not basically saying that. She is reaffirming her previous comment that mothers are tough. She's proving her point to Snow, who if you didn't get it doubted her ability to fight. That's the context. It's not secret code for "hey, you're my secret lovechild!".

[theundeadhero]

It's not out of context at all. She's a mom. What she had just done was pretty tough. She was restating that moms are tough.

[Brennan]

If Snow was Nora's son, I think that they would of put more emphasis on it.

[Cloudane]

No, she is not basically saying that. She is reaffirming her previous comment that mothers are tough. She's proving her point to Snow, who if you didn't get it doubted her ability to fight. That's the context. It's not secret code for "hey, you're my secret lovechild!".

This.

There are some crazy theories around FF, but at least some of them have a basis for reasoning that way :p

A Snow Estheim would be more likely as Hope's son (if for some reason he idolised him) or gay marriage (if for some reason he idolised him even more..)

[Future Esthar]

Well,I can´t do best than this,I admit.

You want things to have more meaning than they really have.

Correction:...than that which Square shows.

Let me show you a more convincing proof that Snow is Nora´s son.

Snow lost his parents as a child but remembers his mothers name vaguely.
He may not be conscious of it but he named his team after his mother(even before he met her on the hanging edge).
Nora is not a very common name.
This isn´t just a narrative style.Narrative styles must have a rational explanation.

[theundeadhero]

That's entirely less convincing and it was obvious you would throw it out there from other posts you made. You're becoming predictable.

[Future Esthar]

Explain that.
It´s a VERY BIG COINCIDENCE don´t you think?
It´s not even a coincidence concerning graphic details but something fixed and objective as a WORD.

That coincidence can not be explained away.

It may not show he is Nora´s sun but I am 100 % confident that the naming of the team is related with her somehow.

Using literal speeches is a very poor excuse in my view.

[Loony BoB]

She says Mum's are tough because she's referring to what she said earlier. He was asking if she was sure - showing doubt about her - and then she told him "Mum's are tough." She didn't point to Hope and say "THAT IS MY CHILD" or anything. She was referring to the fact that she is a mother, and mothers are, well, tough due to experience. They have to deal with a lot and they do it.

Later on, he again showed doubt (sort of) by telling her to stay put. She didn't, and as if he was wondering why she would put her life on the line to stop the machine about to kill him, she pointed out (referring to herself again) that mums are tough, so that's why she did it. As for "but why would she protect Snow?" - she was protecting herself, her son, Snow, everyone. There was one way to destroy that thing and that was using the rocket launcher. If Snow died, they knew they'd all be next, so she put her life on the line to destroy the machine and, thus, save Snow - and Hope.

Also, he didn't name the team after Nora, he named the team something which happened to have the acronym of N.O.R.A.

[NeoCracker]

You know, completely ignoring whether or not the theory itself is true, since neither hope nor Snow learn anything about this by end game, how does this in any way effect anything at all at any point in the game?

[Future Esthar]

It is named after Nora.Coincidences like this just don´t happen in games as literary speeches.


You know, completely ignoring whether or not the theory itself is true, since neither hope nor Snow learn anything about this by end game, how does this in any way effect anything at all at any point in the game?


I didn´t asked that myself but recently I come up with something that make that be important.

I will left you with a little hint.

Yun->Disley Farron

Dia->Estheim.

[theundeadhero]

1. There's nothing in the game that says Snow vaguely remembers his mothers name.
2. If Snow lost his parents when he was young that means they died.
3. Snow knew nothing about Nora or her name when his happy game was named N.O.R.A.

[Cloudane]

Coincidences like this just don´t happen in games

Oh, OK. *Goes off to find Cloud and Squall in FFIX, figure out what guided Squall and Rinoa to an airship that just happened to be floating around in VIII etc*

[Future Esthar]

2. If Snow lost his parents when he was young that means they died.

Not necessarily.

And my probability aproach debunk your other two points.

[Brennan]

Coincidences like this happen because Square-Enix makes them happen for plot reasons.

That is the circle of life.

[Laddy]

*dies*

[G13]

I didn´t asked that myself but recently I come up with something that make that be important.

I will left you with a little hint.

Yun->Disley Farron

Dia->Estheim.

I would very much like to know what you just said.

[Darkwolf090]

Yea so Im going to point out again what someone else did already... The Team is N.O.R.A. and i quote Lightning here.
"It's a stupid acronym. Their little code. Stands for "No Obligations, Rules, or Authority."" —Lightning

NORA - The Final Fantasy Wiki has more Final Fantasy information than Cid could research (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/NORA)

Ok can we end this now?

[Future Esthar]

Coincidences like this happen because Square-Enix makes them happen for plot reasons.

That is the circle of life.

Exactly.To show indirectly that Snow is Nora´s son.

Not JUST because of literary style reasons.

[Brennan]

Coincidences like this happen because Square-Enix makes them happen for plot reasons.

That is the circle of life.

Exactly.To show indirectly that Snow is Nora´s son.

Not JUST because of literary style reasons.

They make it so it's another reason for Hope to be mad at Snow, NOT because Snow is Nora's son.

[Loony BoB]

I agree with Brennan and think you're on the losing side of this argument, FE. But it is a nice little theory that would inevitably come up from yourself and at least had some basic reasoning for it, so I'll give you that. But I think it's safe to say that Snow and Nora are not related.

[Future Esthar]

They make it so it's another reason for Hope to be mad at Snow, NOT because Snow is Nora's son.

They can´t do that.Creating impossibilities like that just to color the story is bad storytelling.

[Loony BoB]

Makes a lot of sense to me.

"The army's no match for NORA!" says Snow to Hope, who gets very angry at that point because, obviously, the army effectively killed Nora. Hope's interest in why the group was called NORA in the first place - he asks Lightning because it's his mother's name. And when he's told what it means, he gets angry. This is all to do with NORA having the same name as his mother: It gives Hope even more reason to get angry at him, even more reasons to want to kill him.

[Future Esthar]

But the coincidence must be explained rationally.Otherwise it´s horrible storytelling.

[Loony BoB]

You can call it horrible storytelling and are fully entitled to that opinion, but that's the way it was told.

What would be genuinely horrible storytelling would be having Snow be Hope's brother without ever even mentioning the vague possibility within the story.

[Future Esthar]

Join this event with Nora saying "moms are though" and smiling before falling.
Even though the latter is less likely to prove anything it is amplified when added to the strong evidence of the former.

Everytime Square creates these impossibilities one should know there is some thing underlining.
Ragnarok rescuing Squall and Rinoa is a good example.

[Loony BoB]

She said that for the purpose of good storytelling. I don't know if you've seen Terminator 2, but if you have, you'll notice that just before Arnie often repeats lines, particularly "Hasta la vista, baby." This doesn't mean he is talking to a baby, nor does i mean who he is talking to is his parent, nor does it mean he is Spanish or has Spanish ancestry. It is simply a character repeating a line for effect. This is the same reason that Nora repeats the line "Mum's are tough", Snow and others repeat the line "The army's no match for NORA!", in FFVII Barret repeats the line "There ain't no getting off this train", etc. etc. etc. You repeat something because it defines your attitude, it reminds people of things, because it emphasises a point, because it is good storytelling.

This is nothing new. This is just defining Nora's attitude: A tough Mum. Every time she does something brave, she says the line "Mum's are tough."

Finally: People remember faces far more than names. If he remembered her name - even if vaguely... then he would remember her face - even if vaguely. But he never said anything about it being his mother, he said "your mother" to Hope.

I'm sorry, FE, but you haven't got the required evidence for this one, either. You can have your opinion on things and I'm sure it's very fun to make up little stories like this, but in the long run it serves little purpose but to satisfy your craving for everything to tie together on levels that are above and beyond the actual story.

[Future Esthar]

It´s a coincidence that simply can´t happen.It´s simply bad storytelling.Whether or not is a literary speech style.

How did Snow baptize his team as N.O.R.A and AFTER that meet Nora?
I think she actualy never said her name to him which only strenghtens my point.

Square can´t just do that for the reasons you told because they have to give a rational explanation to it and not just play with it comically.Stories just don´t work like this.

[Loony BoB]

There is no such thing as a coincidence that can't happen when it comes to storytelling, and considering most of us seem to accept the coincidence, it clearly can happen. One shouldn't state things as facts when the opposite is very, very obviously true.

Asking how he named his team NORA and afterwards met a lady named Nora is like asking someone how they named a team called ROGER and afterwards met a guy called Roger. It happens. Nora isn't an insanely rare name, you do realise that, right?

The fact that she never said her name to him doesn't make any difference whatsoever. He had already named his team.

They can just do that for the reasons I have said and they do not have to give a rational explanation (although coincidence is 100% rational). A guy can be an orphan and make a group called Dyslexic All Very Englishmen and then meat a guy called Dave and go "Oh man, my groups name is DAVE!" but it wouldn't make the guy he just met his father.

You don't think S-E can do play with words comically? Have you even played most of the FF series? It's got so much comedy throughout the series that it is expected that there would be such things happening. I think it's very well done, personally.

Stories work like this just fine because that's what they are: Stories. Even in reality, though, it wouldn't surprise me if some group made a gang with a name that happened to be the same as a name of a person they would later meet. These things happen. The great thing about stories it that you can force them to happen for the sake of amusement, and that's what video games are all about: Amusement. This kind of thing is, without any doubt, exactly the kind of thing that is possible and very easily possible and entirely rational when it comes to storytelling.

To say otherwise is, in all honesty, ignorant.

[Future Esthar]

Nora is not a common name.

[Loony BoB]

Almost 1% of females in America are named Nora. That's about, what, 1.25 million? I'd say that's common enough. I know I've met a couple of people named Nora in my lifetime, if not more. And I'm only 26 years old. A friend of mine in intermediate school. It's a name more well known amongst the older generations than the young, admittedly - I often hear of Nora's in the elderly generation.

EDIT: To put it in perspective, there are more females in America named Nora than there are females named Claire (which even I'm pretty surprised at).

EDIT: Even Wikipedia details Nora as a common name. And the list of Nora's there isn't short.

EDIT: And the name means 'Honour' which is something which I think would be a reasonable name for her character. Perhaps they just wanted to name her something which means 'honourable'. This would make sense as she was an honourable character, putting her life on the line to defend her family with, well, honour.

[Future Esthar]

Why is it that everytime I make a theory 99% proved someone comes up with something like.
"It´s just coincidence"
"It´s just literary speech"
"It´s just a graphical bug"
"It´s just lazyness from the creators"

Seems like an excuse to debunk a reasonable theory when someone dislikes it.
There is no conditions to continue this thread.
I give up knowing I am right.

[Skyblade]

Why is it that everytime I make a theory 99% proved.

Stop right there. You have never done that. Ever.

Snow is an orphan. His parents were dead. The acronym of his group's name being the same as the name of Hope's mom is just a device Square used to build tension between the two characters.

If Snow had chosen the name because it was his mom's name, that would mean he knew his mom's name. Don't you think he'd run a check on the census to see if she's still around at some point?

[Future Esthar]

The name lies on his subconscious.

[Loony BoB]

You have nothing to prove that. I'm sorry, FE, but coincidences do happen in video games, and in this case it is for a reason - the story telling. Otherwise they would have made more of a big deal about such things. If you never concede that you might be wrong, nobody will respect your opinion.

EDIT: However, as you are of the opinion that there is no "condition to continue this thread", I will close your thread.