FMV vs. Diversity

[Loony BoB]

Would you give up fancy flashy FMV sequences in favour of things such as things such as unlockable/optional characters and user action based plots (eg. differing dates in FFVII)?

Vote!

I would, for what it's worth. I wouldn't mind a "trade-off" either - less fancy sequences, but differing depending on which characters you have unlocked. So the same total FMV (in minutes) on the disc but each play-through will only allow you to see something like 25-50% of them depending on how you play the game. Basically repeating FMV sequences with and without the various characters etc. :p

EDIT: Assume the story is awesome regardless of what happens, this is more about gameplay vs. realistic graphics.

[Mo-Nercy]

I'm going to go with the FMV. If it's backed up with a great story, I feel that it would add more 'epic-ness' value to it - like the feeling you get watching Advent Children for the first time.

Then again, I wouldn't want them to overboard with it. At the end of the day, I'd still like to be able to feel like I'm playing a video game. I also like the "trade-off" concept too, BoB. It certainly would make it fun to play over again. Imagine if once you've unlocked one character, you couldn't unlock another and then on your n-th playthrough, you have an idea of which character is optimal for your playing style and you know to go for them.

Now I don't know what to vote!

edit: voted FMV. I feel like I should stick up for it. I don't think it'll get many votes. xD

[Rantz]

Yup! If it's either or, I would. Better graphics is fabulous and all, but having choices that affect the storyline, gameplay, or whatever more than marginally is one of the things I love the most in video games. It's probably the biggest reason why I generally prefer true RPGs to "interactive movie" type games. It's always so intriguing to see your choices have a real effect of some sort.

[Mirage]

realtime rendered cutscenes are good enough for me. I like to see the cutscenes reflecting my equipment/party members.

Maybe they can try doing like in FF7 and FF8 again, with realtime character models on top of CG animated movies!

[blackmage_nuke]

I like linearity and set cannon so I guess it's FMV's for me. Though flashy graphics arent really that important to me.

[Shin Gouken]

I think i only really enjoyed the FMV scenes in FFX. Nothing before it really impressed me and even XII and XIII didn't impress me. I guess i'm just not impressed by flashy graphics

[Slothy]

I wouldn't want more FMV, but I wouldn't want many JRPG's that try to be more like WRPG's either. There's a place for both types of RPG's out there, but the fact is that most western developers don't seem to take the linear story route. Sure you could compromise between the two, or a Japanese developer could try their hand at one or the other and I'm fine with that. But asking if I'd prefer one over the other is like asking if I'd rather eat an apple or an orange. Depends on what I'm in the mood for.

[Loony BoB]

Oh, I'm talking JRPG, that's for certain. I'm just saying that FMVs can restrict the variety of options you get in a game. It was mentioned in another thread (where I requested the return of unlockable characters) that you can't do it anymore due to FMV sequences being done with set characters.

[VeloZer0]

With graphical rendering as advanced as it is I don't see the need for FMVs at all anymore. In the PS1 days FMVs showed things that the game engine never could, now all they do is show things in higher resolution. A complete waste of resources, imo.

[Karifean]

Good graphics are good, but...



do NOT (repeat: NOT) give up gameplay for them!

[the AJman]

I suppose I would say that I would prefer more options and diversity. As mentioned before, in the ps1 and ps2 eras FMV were awesome and allowed us to see parts of the story with greater visuals. However, with today's technology FMV aren't that much ahead of normal game play graphics; it's almost redundent to add FMV now. At least that's my opinion anyway.

[Mirage]

With graphical rendering as advanced as it is I don't see the need for FMVs at all anymore. In the PS1 days FMVs showed things that the game engine never could, now all they do is show things in higher resolution. A complete waste of resources, imo.

Not really, the increased level of geometry, quality of special effects, shading and amount of objects in a scene can still (and will always) be much greater in prerendered video.

[Del Murder]

They really can't do both? If I had to choose, I'd choose more playable content. All I need is one or two pretty FMV sequences to be satisfied.

[Shin Gouken]

With graphical rendering as advanced as it is I don't see the need for FMVs at all anymore. In the PS1 days FMVs showed things that the game engine never could, now all they do is show things in higher resolution. A complete waste of resources, imo.

Not really, the increased level of geometry, quality of special effects, shading and amount of objects in a scene can still (and will always) be much greater in prerendered video.

And alot of the time you don't get half a second to apreciate the "shading" as an airship whizzes by.

I agree that FMV scenes are prettier to look at it. But it's not nessessary. If people can play FFVI with basic graphics and no FMV, or FFVII with FMV's that don't even compare with the standard gameplay graphics of FFXIII, then why is it so important to have mass amounts of FMV scenes now?

[NeoCracker]

Plently of games out there with story altering choices, some times straight linearity in plot and story is a good thing, and that's what I've come to expect in FF, so I'll take the FMV's in FF Games over story altering options. :p

[Skyblade]

Oh, I'm talking JRPG, that's for certain. I'm just saying that FMVs can restrict the variety of options you get in a game. It was mentioned in another thread (where I requested the return of unlockable characters) that you can't do it anymore due to FMV sequences being done with set characters.

Actually, that is not the big problem. I mean, it's easy enough to just exclude the optional characters from the FMVs (as happened with Vincent and Yuffie in VII).

No, the real problem is the rise in voice acting. The resources and effort it takes to make a new character with full voice acting (and the more detailed graphics) is considered not worth it if the character is not going to be seen by most players.

Personally, I think it's a silly reason, since all the players who love the game would get the unlockable characters, but this has actually been a confirmed by BioWare as the reason why certain characters from ME1 only got cameo parts in ME2. The characters could die, so they won't be accessible to everyone, so they get cut to cameos. Given that we've already seen Square-Enix's position on things that require too many resources with XIII's lack of towns, I think similar reasoning will hold true for them.

[VeloZer0]

No, the real problem is the rise in voice acting. The resources and effort it takes to make a new character with full voice acting (and the more detailed graphics) is considered not worth it if the character is not going to be seen by most players.
Oh yeah, the FMV deal is just an extension of the real enemy.


Not really, the increased level of geometry, quality of special effects, shading and amount of objects in a scene can still (and will always) be much greater in prerendered video.
As I said, the same things just in greater detail. There is now way the FFVII engine could have more than approximated stuff like the plate falling or the sister ray firing. In FFXIII FMVs did nothing that the engine couldn't, it just did stuff with a marginally higher level of detail.

[Clo]

When I was younger I was more impressed by FMVs, but I now just don't really care whether they exist or not in the game. Gameplay seems more important than anything.

I'm playing Star Ocean 2 right now, which has almost no FMVs (and frankly, the existing ones only ever show buildings and whatnot, not people), and I don't give a hoot because that game has so, so, so much extra content.

[Mirage]

With graphical rendering as advanced as it is I don't see the need for FMVs at all anymore. In the PS1 days FMVs showed things that the game engine never could, now all they do is show things in higher resolution. A complete waste of resources, imo.

Not really, the increased level of geometry, quality of special effects, shading and amount of objects in a scene can still (and will always) be much greater in prerendered video.

And alot of the time you don't get half a second to apreciate the "shading" as an airship whizzes by.

I agree that FMV scenes are prettier to look at it. But it's not nessessary. If people can play FFVI with basic graphics and no FMV, or FFVII with FMV's that don't even compare with the standard gameplay graphics of FFXIII, then why is it so important to have mass amounts of FMV scenes now?

Oh, I never said I needed them either, I'm just delivering the facts about how much better they actually are. :p

My stance on crap like this is that if the fancy CG movies don't make the gameplay development suffer, I don't really care

[Wolf Kanno]

I haven't been utterly "wow" by an FF's graphics since FFVIII. After that, it kinda became the norm so having super good detail really doesn't make the game more endearing to me too much, though I have been impressed by subtle things like body language but you don't need the character to look realistic to pull this off so yeah...

I'm going for gameplay diversity, in fact I'm actually kinda bored of the FF series continuing on making better looking human characters and wouldn't mind if the series went into a more stylish design like FFIX or Dissidia. We get it SE, you make awesome graphics but I would kill to have you drop the graphics in favor of gameplay options like more party members in a battle, the ability to see armor affect the characters designs (easier if the detail was a bit lower) and more side-quests and minor branching paths in the story. DQVIII and Persona 4 have shown you don't need super realistic graphics to make excellent gameplay and in-depth characters, so stop hiding behind the crutch of graphics.

[Loony BoB]

As a side-topic, I wonder if people would be happy for voice acting to disappear in order to allow for more gameplay options, as opposed to FMV.

[VeloZer0]

As a side-topic, I wonder if people would be happy for voice acting to disappear in order to allow for more gameplay options, as opposed to FMV.
I would like to see them gone regardless. I've never really felt any strong connection to any character in a voice acted game. I wonder if this is because of the voice acting or if they just suck at making me care about characters anymore.

It also irritates the hell out of me sitting and watching them blab through some boring cutscene when I could have read it in 1/5 the time.

[Loony BoB]

I really liked the characters in XIII and their voice acting for the most part was of good quality, but I do admit that I've always felt far more attached to non-voice-acted characters (X and XII were terrible from my perspective). I think it's because you get to put your own voice to a character in your head as you read things on the screen. It also allows you to better connect with the music, I find, which might also add to the emotive aspects.

[oddler]

Yup! If it's either or, I would... It's always so intriguing to see your choices have a real effect of some sort.

Sums up my thoughts on the matter very well. :choc2:

Edit: And on the topic of voice acting, I'd very much vote to kill it off to save gameplay value or to save time and space to include more in-game options. Actually, don't even give me more options; just get rid of the voice acting.

[VeloZer0]

I think it's because you get to put your own voice to a character in your head as you read things on the screen. It also allows you to better connect with the music, I find, which might also add to the emotive aspects.
Very true. I found that the case for lower detail games in general. I love the FF6 sprites but hate the concept art/FMVs/Dissidia models, etc. Had they appeared like that in game I probably would have liked it much less. But that is a topic for another day.

Interesting point about the music. I was playing FF7 on the PSP yesterday and I started thinking about how music in games is much less prominent than it used to be. It is now more of a background element. In older games it was the first thing you noticed when you stepped into a new area, and really set the tone.

[Slothy]

You know, the more I think about FMV's (and the more I replay of MGS4 as much as I love it and it's story) the more I realize that I don't want much more than the bare minimum of FMV's at all. I have no problem with voice acting, I even love it in a lot of games (like the MGS series), but hours upon hours of FMV's and being interrupted every 15 minutes so I can watch something instead of playing it annoys me these days. More games, including RPG's I think could learn from the example that Valve has set, and more importantly, would do well to not have the coolest parts of the game be things that I sit back and passively watch.

It seems the older I get the more I want to actually play the game instead of being a passive observer.

[Wolf Kanno]

I really liked the characters in XIII and their voice acting for the most part was of good quality, but I do admit that I've always felt far more attached to non-voice-acted characters (X and XII were terrible from my perspective). I think it's because you get to put your own voice to a character in your head as you read things on the screen. It also allows you to better connect with the music, I find, which might also add to the emotive aspects.


Quoted for the truth. :cool:

While I don't necessarily mind VA work, I do find that it makes stomaching bad dialogue more acceptable. Playing through the DS version of IV, I couldn't help but laugh through some of my favorite scenes cause I never realized how bad the dialogue can be til it was read out loud. :D

I also agree with BoB and VeloZer0 concerning how much music has really been short changed in the last generation. A few games had some good soundtracks but I rarely felt any of them blended the music with the storytelling as well as they did in the old days.

[Slothy]

I also agree with BoB and VeloZer0 concerning how much music has really been short changed in the last generation. A few games had some good soundtracks but I rarely felt any of them blended the music with the storytelling as well as they did in the old days.

To be fair, it's tough to have the music take center stage as much as it used to when games have such rich and complex sound design these days. Games didn't used to have nearly as much go into the sound design, partly because the soundchips in consoles would have committed suicide had developers tried. The thicker the sounds get the less you have to rely on music alone to convey the mood and the harder it is even if you tried.

If you`d like a recent game where the music takes center stage a bit more though, then check out Heavy Rain. The music is a huge part of the experience in that game.

[Loony BoB]

I think, while sound design does certainly come into it, they could still do themselves a favour by making it so that every footstep doesn't need to make a distinct sound. Can't these people just wear sneakers? =| Also, turn up the music for great justice, turn down the effects.

[Slothy]

The number of distinct footstep sounds doesn't really have anything to do with how much the music can stand out. It's all about the sheer number of sounds that get played at any given time. Too many and you'd muddy up the mix entirely once you have music playing on top of it, but even when not over done it's hard to make music stand out as much as when the sound design is very sparse.

[Loony BoB]

What other sounds? Unless you mean during battle, there shouldn't be that many. And even then, battle music should still be somewhat obvious (and for me, it has been, to be fair). But on field map music etc. music should easily be recognisable.

[Mirage]

I too think footsteps could have been toned down in many cases. Also, why can't we set our music, speech and sound effects volumes ourselves? Other games let us.

[VeloZer0]

I was kind of depressed that a whole slew of customization options didn't become standard as the industry developed. I don't see any excuse for a game no not allow you to completely re-map it's control scheme or adjust the volume level of effects/music ect. That should be industry standard.

I used to waste so much time customizing the window colors in earlier FF titles, where the hell did that go? It probably would have added more re playability than anything else in FF13.

[Clo]

Oh, man, could I go without voice acting. It's never really added anything to the game for me, and in a sadly cynical way I usually fail to even give it much thought unless it's bad. I liked imagining the character's voice based off their personalities and appearance.

Also, the footsteps in FFVIII drove me crazy. Sometimes it added an air of creepiness to the setting, but for the most part they drove me crazy.

[Slothy]

What other sounds? Unless you mean during battle, there shouldn't be that many. And even then, battle music should still be somewhat obvious (and for me, it has been, to be fair). But on field map music etc. music should easily be recognisable.

What do you mean there shouldn't be many? If there's anything that's really happening on screen there should generally be sound associated with it. Less so in RPG's because they tend to be fairly static (not a lot of movement and things happening around you), but they're also the type of games where the music tends to stand out more.

That said, most RPG soundtracks I've heard in a while tend to be mediocre at best so even if it stands out it ends up not being memorable.

[Loony BoB]

What other sounds? Unless you mean during battle, there shouldn't be that many. And even then, battle music should still be somewhat obvious (and for me, it has been, to be fair). But on field map music etc. music should easily be recognisable.

What do you mean there shouldn't be many? If there's anything that's really happening on screen there should generally be sound associated with it. Less so in RPG's because they tend to be fairly static (not a lot of movement and things happening around you), but they're also the type of games where the music tends to stand out more.

That said, most RPG soundtracks I've heard in a while tend to be mediocre at best so even if it stands out it ends up not being memorable.
Well, if you look at the likes of VII, VIII and IX, it's certainly possible for a game to have it's music stand out whilst still allowing for the sounds of those things happening here and there. As I said, what sounds, specifically? Aside from footstep sounds I am honestly struggling to remember many other sounds that there were in FF games until very, very recently. And even then, it's still mostly just voice acting and footsteps, surely?

[ShinGundam]

To be fair, FMV/pre-rendered cut-scenes tend to decrease loading times compare to real-time cut-scenes, I like Kingdom hearts birth by sleep but this game has a lot of loading times because everything in real-time, I've never had to do the data install, until BBS :eep:

[Mirage]

To be fair, FMV/pre-rendered cut-scenes tend to decrease loading times compare to real-time cut-scenes, I like Kingdom hearts birth by sleep but this game has a lot of loading times because everything in real-time, I've never had to do the data install, until BBS :eep:

True story. In fact, many cutscenes that look like they're realtime in FF13, are in fact prerendered but with the same engine that's used ingame. In addition to having lower loading times, different ingame data can be loaded while the video is playing. Furthermore, you can have "more stuff" in the scene without slowing down the cutscene.