Was XIII Poor By FF Standards?

[seiferalmasy2]

A simple question. Is XIII poor by the standard set by Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX and X.

If you liked XIII more than VII, VIII, IX or X vote no.

If you liked all 4 of these games above XIII vote yes.

In other words a yes vote must consist of you liking VII - X more than XIII.

I am interested to know, and I don't much like the other poll since "good" is open to interpretation when we aren't comparing it to others in the series.

I vote yes, it is poorer than VII, VIII, IX and X.

[Loony BoB]

What are Final Fantasy standards? Going from FFI through to FFXIII, I would say that the standard has gone up and down on more than a couple of occasions. With that in mind, I'd say that XIII is firmly in the "A thoroughly enjoyable game, good characters, decent enough story, quality battle system however lacking in non-battle gameplay, particularly in the way of replayability, exploration and sidequests."

That puts it in the middle bracket for me, with some worse and some better.

So, no, it was not poor by Final Fantasy "standards" in my experience (I've played I-VIII, X, XI-XIII and Tactics Advance).

[seiferalmasy2]

In that case I will make it clearer. By VII - X standards

[Loony BoB]

But that's missing out half of the series. And even if we were missing out half of the series, I would still pretty much say exactly the same thing as I said in my last post.

You should probably stop changing your questions to suit your argument, man. It's a poor tactic. Was that argument tactic poor by your standards? No, I'd say it's pretty much in the middle, too. ;) I think you need a hug, man! C'mere! Have some ice cream and breathe some fresh air, play games that make you smile instead of grouching about games that don't. If you feel there are other games out there that are better then you should celebrate them by promoting them instead of spending all your time demoting the one you don't. I think we all get your stance on things and I'm sure you get ours. Such things won't change.

[seiferalmasy2]

Well this is my question, do you find XIII better than VII, VIII, IX or X

You either do or don't. Vote or don't vote. I am not forcing you ;) I changed the question because you were complaining that there was some form of ambiguity, and there was. So I have removed it.

If you liked XIII more than VII, VIII, IX or X vote no.

If you liked all 4 of these games above XIII vote yes.

In other words a yes vote must consist of you liking VII - X (all 4 games) more than XIII.

There can be no complaints now.

[Loony BoB]

I do find it better than one of the three of those games that I have played. But now you're narrowing it even further. It's becoming rather ridiculous to say that every FF game has to be better than they were within a set timeframe.

Like I said. You just need a hug. Maybe you should invest in a Nintendo DS and play those games as they are far more likely to be similar to PS1 games than any PS3 game ever will.

[Beowulf]

Seeing as I've played every Final Fantasy, minus XI, I can firmly agree with Mister BoB's statement. I've played better in the series, yet I've also played far worse in the series. It's really all personal preference anymore. Some people hated XIII, I myself loved it.

[seiferalmasy2]

That wasn't the question....the question is do you like XIII better than VII, VIII, IX and X.

For the record I don't expect this to be a majority vote (the vote is fair, I could have narrowed it down to "is it much worse than VII" but it will be cool to see how many people agree with me that XIII is worse than those 4.

[Beowulf]

I liked it better than VIII and X, actually. It's about on par with VII and IX, in my opinion. So I said it's not poor by those game standards.

[seiferalmasy2]

Yours is a no vote then :) as you can see the odds are actually stacked against me, but even if 1 person agrees I know that there is hope :P

[Ragebrain The Enraged]

Just let it go man. :D

[Depression Moon]

why was the question changed? Why can't anyone make the judgement based on the whole series or everything that they've played?

[seiferalmasy2]

why was the question changed? Why can't anyone make the judgement based on the whole series or everything that they've played?

Because sadly that leaves people moaning about the question being loaded and biased in my favour as well as ambiguous. If I say "is it a bad FF game" people start to say "which do we compare to"

Make your own poll, I'd be happy to vote in it.

[Clo]

Er, polls really shouldn't be this complicated. How about everybody answer the question willy nilly based on their own FF standards? In that case, I would say it's on the same level as X, and XII, though it seems too much of a new breed of game to be comparable to PS1 games.

[ANGRYWOLF]

Just let it go man. :D

rotfl...:D

Seifer is an intense person..feels strongly about the games so to tell him to let it go..or that he needs a hug..is a waste of time.:roll2

It's along the lines of the compare and contrast remarks I made yesterday.

I do believe compare and contrast is a valid way to look at FFXIII, although some people don't accept that.:roll2

I just don't think we're going to come to any consensus about any FF game....some people will like a game, some won't and we won't agree.Heck we don't agree about what an FF game should include /have within it...what features it should have and how they should be implimented.

These debates are something of a lost cause.....and it would be better to move on and hope we see something about Agito and Versus so we can discuss those games.
I hope we see something at E3 about those games so we can just move on.
I don't expect seifer to move on though...rotfl...:p

[seiferalmasy2]

I suggest someone just make a poll like I did originally "Is XIII a good game by FF standards" with no criteria; it may be ambiguous but I think it is fairer than "Is it good game" [ and no standard given]

[Rodney]

I, for one, liked it better than the four games given, so my vote is a no.

I think it helps for me that all six characters are featured prominently and about evenly in the storyline. With 7, 8, 9, and 10, it was The Cloud/Squall/Zidane/Tidus Show. We barely got to know anything about the other characters because the writers forced the protagonists and, at times, their leading ladies down our throats. With 13, we got to learn plenty of info about everyone, which made it feel like 5 and 6 to me.

[Wolf Kanno]

Well seeing as how I hold a very negative opinion of VII, VIII, and X I would say the game is on course with the current standards of the series. It continues the trend of movie like visuals over well balanced gameplay and continued to utilize RPG/anime cliche cast members instead of actually venturing forth and trying to make something a bit original (though Sahz is a notable and welcomed exception) and ultimately picks up where FFX had left on in terms of terrible game design and poorly implemented story writing. About the only thing XIII proves is that there are people at SE who can write as poorly as Nojima. :p

In terms of the whole series (cause I have played them all) this game just shows the continual decline of the franchise and the fact that Wada has removed most of the good talent from the company. But maybe I'm just bitter ;)

[Mo-Nercy]

Maybe all the Mafia I've been playing has made me super-suspicious of things, but I suspect that the results of this poll will lead to another informative addition to seifer's signature saying something to to the tune of "See you've said it yourself! FFXIII is the plague." (That is if the poll was going the way he would've liked.)

[nirojan]

I played most of them...but i liked VI and VII the best. No XIII doesn't come near them in terms of anything!
PROS: I did like the game design (game engine's rendering was spectacular....and trust me I've played all the nice looking PS3 games like Uncharted series, Killzone 2 and GOW3), i definitely liked the battle system (fast-paced, addictive and fun) and the voice acting was top notched!

CONS: Forgettable characters (really!), Stupid and slow story (I only trudged on because it had "Final Fantasy" written on the cover), No replay value (REALLY!) and I really didnt mind the linearity, but it did kinda feel weird!

ALL IN ALL, enjoyable but not in the top echelon of final fantasy games i hold dear to my heart. ( I know that sounded cheesy, but this game would have been better being part of the compilation of FFVII not a real numbered entry into the series). Oh well i guess there's always Versus to look forward to!

[seiferalmasy2]

Maybe all the Mafia I've been playing has made me super-suspicious of things, but I suspect that the results of this poll will lead to another informative addition to seifer's signature saying something to to the tune of "See you've said it yourself! FFXIII is the plague." (That is if the poll was going the way he would've liked.)

certainly not :) Opinions based on a small forum like this with such a small sample would not be near enough proof of concensus. There is a better concensus already out there and that is that the biggest game reviewers have been giving the game 8 out of 10, whilst others like edge gave it even lower, and the user reviews are way down also.

My signature cites a decent review site I agree with and the main design team members saying what people keep denying.

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EDIT BY BoB: A merging of threads caused double posts, this is the beginning of a different post which has been merged with the above one.

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Let's remember that most of these professional reviewers tend to look for graphics, seem to eat out of big business hands and won't give a final fantasy game a score of 7 or below no matter how bad. So a drop of 1 point is actually pretty significant for them.

Those are much more interesting figures...

Gamespot:

Final Fantasy VII

Magazine score: 9.5
User Average: 9.6

Final Fantasy VIII

Magazine score: 9.5
User Average: 9.2

Final Fantasy IX

Magazine score: 8.5
User Average: 9.1

Final Fantasy X

Magazine score: 9.3
User Average: 9.3

Final Fantasy X-2

Magazine score: 8.1
User Average: 8.3

Final Fantasy XII

Magazine score: 9.0
User Average: 9.1

Final Fantasy XIII

Magazine score: 8.5
User Average: 8.6

IGN:

Final Fantasy VII

Magazine score: 9.5
User Average: 9.4

Final Fantasy VIII

Magazine score: 9.0
User Average: 8.8

Final Fantasy IX

Magazine score: 9.2
User Average: 9.0

Final Fantasy X

Magazine score: 9.5
User Average: 9.2

Final Fantasy X-2

Magazine score: 9.5
User Average: 8.6

Final Fantasy XII

Magazine score: 9.5
User Average: 8.9

Final Fantasy XIII

Magazine score: 8.3
User Average: 8.6


metacritic:

Final Fantasy VII

Average score of magazines: 92
User Average: 8.9

Final Fantasy VIII

Average score of magazines: 90
User Average: 8.9

Final Fantasy IX

Average score of magazines: 94
User Average: 9.0

Final Fantasy X

Average score of magazines: 92
User Average: 8.6

Final Fantasy X-2

Average score of magazines: 85
User Average: 8.0

Final Fantasy XII

Average score of magazines: 92
User Average: 7.7

Final Fantasy XIII

Average score of magazines: 83
User Average: 8.6

So, with that in mind:


Order by score (worst to best):

Gamespot:

Magazine: X-2, XIII/IX, XII, X, VII/VIII

User: X-2, XIII, XII/IX, VIII, X, VII

IGN:

Magazine: XIII, VIII, IX, X-2/X/XII, VII

User: X-2/XIII, XII, VIII, IX, X, VII

Metacritic:

Magazines: XIII, X-2, VIII, VII/X/XII, IX

User: XII, X-2, X/XIII, VII/VIII, IX


Conclusion:

Although magazine scores are notorious at giving any FF game high scores no matter how bad, I find it rather telling that IGN gave XIII less than 9 for the very first time for a main modern main FF game.

In all 3 of these tests, X-2, XII and XIII scores poorly overall by user reviews. I wanted to have more samples, if anyone can get hold of figures by decent review sites like edge, that would be good.

One thing is for sure, XII, XIII and X-2 are cited more than others as the poorest in the series (by users), with XIII taking a nose dive as predicted. The figures above are for Playstation only, and the Xbox may differ (don't hope for it to be for the better though).

Also of note: Final Fantasy XIII: How Does It Compare? - Metacritic (http://features.metacritic.com/features/2010/how-does-final-fantasy-13-compare/)


And how is the new game performing with critics? Well, while it is earning generally positive reviews, Final Fantasy XIII is the lowest-scoring title in the main series since at least Final Fantasy VII (the earliest installment for which we have a score). While the new game does shake up the tried-and-true RPG formula quite a bit — and while reviewers are indeed loving the graphics — some critics seem a bit bored with the release.

[Loony BoB]

Stop making these threads. Stick to the thread you made about comparisons. I'll merge this into it.

[seiferalmasy2]

Stop making these threads. Stick to the thread you made about comparisons. I'll merge this into it.

I thought it warranted a new thread since it is a totally different subject and people will miss this post if it is just thrown here in the middle of nowhere.

[Loony BoB]

Both topics are comparing FFXIII with earlier FF games.

[hhr1dluv]

Honestly Seifer (and I know you're banned ;)), I think that your post concerning the critics' reviews really just shows why your whole argument about comparing the FFs is utterly pointless. People have wildly divergent tastes and preferences. I mean, you can just look at this forum to see that. For instance, we all know that Wolf Kanno loathes Final Fantasy X, but there are also a lot of people who would call it their favorite (myself included). XII had a lot of negative user reviews, but many people (at least in this forum), saw it as one of the stronger titles since VI.

Even if you wanted to look outside of the sample size of this forum to the critics you so respect, look at how varied their tastes are. How many users completely trashed FF X-2 while IGN is ranking it as one of the strongest FF titles? Look at how poor a score IX received when many users (at least here) cherish it!

Now, I don't yet have an opinion on XIII (haven't played enough of it), but I have beaten every FF except for VIII and IX, and I have played significant portions of those two titles. I tend to prefer X, X-2 and VII because I like sentimental storylines. I also quite like III and XII for their gameplay. I do think I'll enjoy XIII but I don't think it will be my favorite. If I'm being honest with myself, I don't think this has anything to do with FF XIII's quality in comparison to the others (they all have different strengths and weaknesses), but more to do with changes in myself. I have gotten older. X is probably my favorite because it was the first one I played when I was a hormonal teenage girl. I don't deny that nostalgia plays a big factor in my liking these games. I'm sure many of the people in this forum might agree. In essence, I suppose what I'm saying, is I don't expect to respond to these games the way I used to. The last game that made me really and truly exhilarated was Zelda: Twilight Princess, and that was likely due to Ocarina of Time nostalgia. Oh, it stinks getting old! Anyway, I can't really speak for everyone, of course (there are many more serious gamers in this forum), but these are my feelings on the matter. At least I'll always be able to replay the older games, and enjoy them just as I always have.

***
Admittedly, I will say that the lack on minigames and towns in XIII is a HUGE drawback for me. But again, that's because varied gameplay is very, very important to me. Why'd all you ingrates have to bash on X-2's minigames!! XD You made Square think all we cared about was combat!

EDIT: Boy, I hope I don't get in trouble for reawakening a dead thread. I JUST STARTED PLAYING XIII. BAH.

[Wolfen]

I found III, IV, V, and VI better than XIII.

[Dreddz]

FFXIII wasn't a piss poor game but it didn't live up to the standards set by the older games. Square didn't realise what made previous FF games so great. Previous games gave you an expansive world for you to explore. FFXIII gave you corridor after corridor with pretty window dressing on either side. There was no down time and always focused on you moving forward.

I remember in FFIX when you first arrive at Dali. You got to relax and soak in the story. FFXIII had none of that.