If you get new weapon skills...

[Ouch!]

...then we need new weapons to go along with 'em. Introducing Empyrean Weapons, the supposed "relics" of Trials of the Magian.

Take a look. (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html)

[Del Murder]

The weapons look cool, but like all the other ultimate weapons before them I don't have the time or desire to complete the tasks to upgrade them.

So this still doesn't make me want to buy Visions of Abyssea, mostly out of principle since Dynamis, Limbus and Einherjar all came free with their expansions.

What I'm waiting for now is that all the new Abyssea mobs will hold all the new BLU spells, and they will be super awesome like the Sea spells. It's bound to happen. =/

[Rostum]

CoP didn't come with new jobs, gonna have a cry about that too?

WoTG came with much much more content than previous expansions, it's more the fact they haven't released the last missions that concerns me more than anything. But there's a lot there already.

[Ouch!]

I'm not sure why you're so adamant that Abyssea should be part of Wings of the Goddess. Sure, Wings of the Goddess hasn't given us any new endgame, but it's given plenty else. Campaign battles. Campaign ops. battlefields. SCNMs. Two new jobs. Some 20-odd new areas (granted, many are reskins) with more to come as we get access to Walk of Echoes...

Abyssea is something else entirely. It's not even all endgame, as evidenced by Abyssea quests being available from level 30 upwards.

[Del Murder]

CoP didn't come with new jobs, gonna have a cry about that too?
You're missing the point entirely. But yes, if CoP was released and then a year later they asked you to pay 30 bucks just to get access to 3 new jobs, which require you to have CoP installed to access, then I would cry a river of tears into my pillow.

Also I thought Walk of Echoes was part of Abyssea? Is it something else?

[Ouch!]

They initially said that Abyssea might be accessible through Walk of Echoes, but it looks like now it's accessible through new cavernous maws. By the looks of it, they'll be in Konschtat Highlands, Tahrongi Canyon, And La Theine Plateau.

In this next update, it looks like we're getting more nation quests; I don't expect we'll get Walk of Echoes until the update after that.

Also note that the update requires both Wings of the Goddess and Rise of the Zilart for access.

That said, I think you're the one missing the point. This content appears to expand far beyond a single endgame event. I'm still not sure why exactly you're convinced it should have been part of Wings of the Goddess in the first place. CoP didn't have new jobs. WotG doesn't have new endgame. It's just how things go.

[Del Murder]

If it does expand beyond like you say it will, then it might be worth it. But $30 for what might just be the equivalent of 3 new dynamis or limbus zones isn't really worth it, when those zones came free with an expansion that contained a buttload of other content for $20.

I'm not saying that WotG needs an endgame event and comparing that to CoP needing new jobs. I'm just saying that they already are requiring WotG to play Abyssea, and WotG doesn't have an endgame event (though Echoes might be it), so why not make it free? The add ons left a bad taste in my mouth because I was really expecting for $10 each something of the epicness of the main expansion storylines. Instead for $30 we got not even half of what we got for $20 in ToAU or WotG.

We already pay $14 a month for this game. So when they ask for additional money from us I expect something above and beyond what is already offered. Not some piece of equipment and lame storyline filled with tedious quests, or a new dynamis zone. Abyssea may be on the scale of a full expansion, like you say. If it is I'll be happy to pay for it. If it isn't, then I feel it's a slippery slope they're going on, and I fear how this will translate into FFXIV.

[Rostum]

I hear bigger companies are starting to like cash shops better than monthly fees due to the possibility of making a lot more money, and that people are dumb enough to play those kinds of games.

It's why Lord of the Rings Online has gone cash shop, free to play.

[Ouch!]

I'm just saying that they already are requiring WotG to play Abyssea, and WotG doesn't have an endgame event (though Echoes might be it), so why not make it free? The add ons left a bad taste in my mouth because I was really expecting for $10 each something of the epicness of the main expansion storylines. Instead for $30 we got not even half of what we got for $20 in ToAU or WotG.
You must also have Rise of the Zilart to do Abyssea. Maybe they should have come with that expansion. Given that Abyssea and WotG content are being developed concurrently, I'd also imagine they have different portions of the dev. team working on the different projects, which would mean each has its own associated costs.

I'll concede the point about the previous add-on scenarios. They were rather disappointing considering.

Edit: Side note, people are .dat mining the update Square Enix put up last night. Revealing a number of new enemies (mostly reskins) and weapons. As of writing this, confirmed abilities include a new tier of waltz, libra, two WHM spells (one looks like a protect/shell hybrid), eight BLU spells, and tonko: san.

[Del Murder]

You seem to be harping on which expansion they 'include' it with. That's not the point. I don't really give a smurf which expansion it should be with. Put it in ToAU for all I care. I just think it should be free, because we are already paying $14 a month for this game and in the past $20 has bought you a wide variety of new content like new jobs, areas, endgame events, and storylines all in one. Abyssea (and the scenarios) are now $30 for what is quite obviously a whole lot less.

[Ouch!]

I like how you address my facetious comment and ignore my point involving the logistics of the problem.

[Del Murder]

How am I supposed to address that? I have no idea who works on what and how SE's cost structure works, and neither do you. I will say that I don't think the separate cost of Abyssea was done to recoup the costs of development, or because different people worked on it, or anything like that. I think the separate cost is there because they realize there are plenty of suckers who will pay for anything new in this game regardless of the volume or quality of the content.

[Miriel]

Isn't one of the biggest arguments that people make when others complain about the monthly cost is that those monthly payments help pay for new content?

I don't think it's unreasonable to want SE to keep additional costs for new content relatively low or provide good bang for your buck given how much players have already invested in the game (hundreds of dollars most likely). Square is concerned with their bottom line, users should be concerned with theirs as well.

[Rostum]

Why are you guys even argueing about this? Either get it or don't.

[Miriel]

Why do you get so disgruntled when people on a forum decide to discuss things on a forum? This is what we're here for, to chat about things...

I dunno, I feel like when people start having a back and forth dialogue, you seem to want to try and stop it. :confused:

[Del Murder]

Yeah, I agree, especially in this forum which is usually so dead. I wish this and the FFXIV forum had more active topics. :(

[Rostum]

Since when do I usually want to stop it? Provide examples please.

This isn't discussion, this argueing. There's a huge difference. It's obvious both people have different views and aren't going to persuade the other especially when one side is so stubborn and keen to base their opinions on the tiniest bit of information, so why bother?

And I've tried to put up more topics in the FFXIV but the people in this forum don't even like Final Fantasy, so how can you expect them to like it in MMO form?

[Ouch!]

How am I supposed to address that? I have no idea who works on what and how SE's cost structure works, and neither do you. I will say that I don't think the separate cost of Abyssea was done to recoup the costs of development, or because different people worked on it, or anything like that. I think the separate cost is there because they realize there are plenty of suckers who will pay for anything new in this game regardless of the volume or quality of the content.
Of course they did it to make money. That said, I just think it's silly that people act entitled to any additional content whatsoever. When you purchased Wings of the Goddess, new endgame was never promised in that package. More importantly, when you purchased Wings of the Goddess, there was absolutely concept of content geared towards beyond level 75. Why shouldn't we have to pay for additional content to accompany the level cap?


Isn't one of the biggest arguments that people make when others complain about the monthly cost is that those monthly payments help pay for new content?

I don't think it's unreasonable to want SE to keep additional costs for new content relatively low or provide good bang for your buck given how much players have already invested in the game (hundreds of dollars most likely). Square is concerned with their bottom line, users should be concerned with theirs as well.
The monthly fee pays for a lot of thinks. Development of new content is only one of many. I don't think the fees we pay each month go quite so far as adding content beyond a level cap which has existed for the past six-and-a-half years is covered.

I expect Vision of Abyssea to be worth $10. As far as I'm concerned, $10 really isn't all that much money; and I'm willing to shell out $30 for new endgame that will keep us going until level 99. If you don't think it's worth that amount of money, that's fine, don't buy it. I just think it's silly that you seem to think it should be free.

[Del Murder]

Of course they did it to make money. That said, I just think it's silly that people act entitled to any additional content whatsoever. When you purchased Wings of the Goddess, new endgame was never promised in that package. More importantly, when you purchased Wings of the Goddess, there was absolutely concept of content geared towards beyond level 75. Why shouldn't we have to pay for additional content to accompany the level cap?

Well I feel entitled because I am paying monthly for this game. When they stop releasing new content I will stop p(l)aying. I don't expect it to be free, I've already paid hundreds of dollars to play this game! What are they doing with that money?

$10 is not a lot, you're right, it's just the principle of the thing. Also, as much as Ome hates watching it, I like arguing with you. :aimkiss:

[Ouch!]

I'd argue that you've gotten what you've paid for with that monthly fee; you played for the month you paid for. It doesn't guarantee you anything beyond that.

I'm beginning to hear rumblings that purchasing Vision of Abyssea may be required to access level 76-80. All Square Enix has said is that there will be no limit break quest as we understand it, but that there would be a "requirement". People have noticed that with each Abyssea release there is also a planned level cap increase and some think it isn't merely a coincidence. I don't know how I'd feel about that.

[Miriel]

I don't think it's about trying to persuade each other, just establishing different view points. I like reading Ouch's position as much as I like reading Del's, even though they're different.

[Del Murder]

I'm beginning to hear rumblings that purchasing Vision of Abyssea may be required to access level 76-80. All Square Enix has said is that there will be no limit break quest as we understand it, but that there would be a "requirement". People have noticed that with each Abyssea release there is also a planned level cap increase and some think it isn't merely a coincidence. I don't know how I'd feel about that.
Smurf, you are probably right.

[Ouch!]

Square Enix did announce that there were no intentions to adjust existing content for the new level cap, so it wouldn't strictly be needed outside of Abyssea, but yeah...

[Del Murder]

Well the point was to make all the existing stuff easier! But the more I think about it the more it makes sense that we are buying the new level caps. I was wondering why they were making us buy a new Dynamis-like zone but this is probably what we are buying. Oh well, it will probably be fun, and $10 is a drop in the bucket, I just don't like where this is heading with FFXIV on the horizon.

[Rostum]

I honestly hope they don't turn FFXIV into a cash shop, and I hope the release of buyable content is better balanced.

[Del Murder]

eight BLU spells
I checked what these spells were on Zam forums and this is what people found:

- Aqua Breath - Adamantoise
- Plenilune Embrace: AoE HP Recovery, and Erase - Gnoles
- Demoralizing Roar: AoE Attack Down - Wivres
- Bombilation: AoE TP Down - Gnats
- Leafstorm: AoE Physical Damage - Treants
- Regeneration: Regen - Krakens
- Battery Charge: MP Recovery - Magic Pot
- Animating Wail: AoE Haste

So for now it looks like you won't need Abyssea to get these. They look pretty sweet too! Freaking Battery Charge!