I hate it when people say "Avatar is so much better than The Dark Knight!"

[The Fat Bioware Nerd]

Because they're not the same freaking movie! Avatar is a freaking ALIEN FILM starring that Australian douchebag from Terminator 4 and The Dark Knight is a CRIME DRAMA starring Batman.

If you don't know the difference between a crime drama and an alien film, I pity you.

[MJN SEIFER]

I hate it when people say FFVII's overrated.
I hate it when people say FFVIII doesn't have a good storyline.
I hate it when people say TFD (not FD4) was a bad film.
I hate it when people dismiss programes simply because they're made for children.
I hate it when people don't like FF games.

Not really, it's pure opinion :P Just watch what films you like, and have a nice day. :D

[champagne supernova]

They could compare Pocahontas and Avatar however.

http://wtfoodge.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/avatar-pocahontas-500x486.jpg

I think Avatar is a bad movie which set new standards in CGI. Dark Knight was a great movie.

EDIT: In my opinion at least. Thanks for reminding me MJN.

[Sephiroth]

Avatar ist completely overrated and just so popular because not everyone is used to high definition super mega video game graphics. I admit and respect it looks great but it is completely overrated because cool graphics = greatest movie ever is the dumbest thing I have ever read or heard.

Oh and by the way - those wannabe cat-elves look riddiculus. I don't want to watch a 3 hours movie with main characters who look like that. Especially their noses are...very very strange.

[Chris]

One of my all-time favorite quotes: "All comparisons are odious". Truer words have never been spoken.

[Freya]

I feel you can't have an opinion on something if you don't give it a chance, Sephiroth.

Avatar was a fairly cool movie in it's own right. Kinda boring up until the end though.

The Dark Knight was just pure badassary.

To compare the two is silly. Unless you're comparing them as box office goldmines. Otherwise, as an actual movie? It's stupid to. I haven't even heard them compared yet before this thread so it's new to me.

[BarelySeeAtAll]

Agreed. Loved all the cast of Dark Knight, too..not much to like about Avatar's to be honest. Yyeah the graphics were revolutionary, the storyline sucked major balls, the people were pretty but people are apparently getting suicidal over them (sad?), which just goes to show the target audience.

Dark Knight had the Joker. End of.

[Sephiroth]

I feel you can't have an opinion on something if you don't give it a chance, Sephiroth.


And I feel neither you have the power nor the right to decide if I can have an opinion or not.

If I do see something which doesn't impress me I don't waste my time to see or read it completely. Opinions do not only exist about the whole topic, there are already opinions about some aspects of the topic itself. And if I do say "The characters look riddiculus." I don't need to waste 3 hours or 2 1/2 hours watching them because I already know they won't stop looking like riddiculus cat-elf characters. And THIS already is an opinion. "Hm, this looks interesting. I will watch it." is an opinion and already built before you watch the movie itself. And I don't have this opinion. I say it is overrated because it simply is fact not everyone is used to high definition graphics and are used to real actors and I am used to super graphics so I can the opinion "The graphics are overrated and the movie itself is even more overrated.".

There were and are guys who just read "Final Fantasy XIII is linear." and they have complained about it before they have played it themself. It was their choice and opinion not to play it because of one aspect. I completely disagree but that's not the point. And I would agree with you if I would say "Uhh...Avatar is the greatest crap ever!" because I don't know it completely. But I know the graphics - the main reason why people like it which is overrated in my opinion - I know the story and I know the characters. And I don't like it. And after all I still say it looks great. But it is overrated.

And I won't discuss with you here because it is my opinion and you can't do anything about it. And I don't even know why you bother because it really is not of your business. I mean it is not like you are the producer. And even if you would be the producer I still can have my own opinion.

[Miriel]

I think Freya was addressing the "Avatar is completely overrated" statement in your post. Not the individual and specific opinions you've formed about the movie such as the fact that you think the characters look ridiculous. You can't really have a legitimate opinion on how over or under rated something is, until you've rated it yourself. And you can't really rate a movie without having seen it.

I saw the movie, and I thought it was crazy overrated. I thought some parts were laughable, and I was honestly *really* surprised by how well it was received. Before I saw the movie, one of my best friends told me that it was amaaaazing, and she and I have very similar tastes. So I left the theater wondering if there was something wrong with me. Did I just not get it? I don't know. I loved the Dark Knight. And I think the only reason anyone would compare the two is because both movies have a lot of fanboys/girls. It's just a fan trying to one up another fan.

[Mirage]

You can't know if something is overrated or not unless you've actually seen it. All you'll know is what ratings it got, you'd know nothing about those ratings being better or worse than what the movie deserved.
Hate to say it, seph, but you sound like an arrogant bastard :D.

[Sephiroth]

You can't really have a legitimate opinion on how over or under rated something is, until you've rated it yourself. And you can't really rate a movie without having seen it.

Obviously I can. People say it is the greatest movie because of the graphics and I know the graphics. And I know the story. I just don't watch it.

And no one, not Freya, Miriel, Mirage or whoever will post here will change something about it. You just show me you don't read my posts and just want to write the very popular "you can't say something against something which you don't know". And I have written it twice that I do know it without watching it completely. And you still don't understand that watching the graphics and riddiculus characters 3 hours won't change my opinion because the graphics and character design will not change. This has nothing to do with me being arrogant. We live in a world where everyone should be accepted - at least everyone says it, we all know it is nothing but an illusion like we see here - and I can't be forced to think something I don't want to think.

[Freya]

Calm down sparky. Not saying you are not allowed an opinion on everything.


I think Freya was addressing the "Avatar is completely overrated" statement in your post. Not the individual and specific opinions you've formed about the movie such as the fact that you think the characters look ridiculous. You can't really have a legitimate opinion on how over or under rated something is, until you've rated it yourself. And you can't really rate a movie without having seen it.


That's what I meant.

[Miriel]

Obviously you can have an opinion, but it's one that isn't rooted in actual research and so most people aren't going to view your opinion as a legitimate. It's sort of a fake opinion. You may not like it, but that's how it comes across!

[Sephiroth]

Hate to say it, seph, but you sound like an arrogant bastard :D.

It's too late for compliments. Or perhaps it isn't?



Obviously you can have an opinion, but it's one that isn't rooted in actual research and so most people aren't going to view your opinion as a legitimate.

I really cannot tell you often enough how much I don't care about other people and their pointless opinion about me and my opinions or my character itself. And I can only get sure if the graphics of Avatar are good if I have seen the graphics. And I have seen the graphics. I can only get sure if I like the characters or the story if I have seen the characters and heard or watched the story. And I have seen the graphics, seen the characters and read the story. This is actual research. I don't say the graphics are good or bad because Person A says it, I say it because I have seen it. And I don't even say it is bad. But I have already noticed you don't read this "I don't say it is bad." part and especially not the "I have seen it with my own eyes." part. And saying something you don't think but you know other people want to hear or read it is the real illusion. Like most of the people do. I just say what I think and what I know. And I know what I think. I have seen it and say it is overrated. And that's it.

I know there will follow some new posts about how wrong I am because it simply is the other peoples own opinion that I am wrong and no fact cause no one except myself can decide what my opinion is and obviously my opinion is not just built out of nothingness itself. No one will convince me so accept it that I am one of the guys who doesn't just follow the stream.

EDIT: Like I said. Just another another mainstream one who doesn't read what I write.

[champagne supernova]

This is now getting into a debate about opinions. Should be interesting.

Think Freya was saying you can't have a substantiated opinion about Avatar being over-rated. However, you are perfectly free to have unsubstantiated opinions on any manner of topics. People might not take them seriously, but Whatever Works (Woody Allen movie - I quite enjoyed it).

[Raistlin]

Going back to the OP: people actually say that?

Did they watch both movies?

[MJN SEIFER]

Avatar ist completely overrated and just so popular because not everyone is used to high definition super mega video game graphics. And because of the Avatar hype I have never watched it. I admit and respect it looks great but it is completely overrated because cool graphics = greatest movie ever is the dumbest thing I have ever read or heard.

Oh and by the way - those wannabe cat-elves look riddiculus. I don't want to watch a 3 hours movie with main characters who look like that. Especially their noses are...very very strange.

See THIS is why I don't pay attention to hype - anyone who does will either blindly follow the crowed, or hold up a cross to it for fear of looking like they're following the crowed - just have your own opinions.

[Sephiroth]

See THIS is why I don't pay attention to hype - anyone who does will either blindly follow the crowed, or hold up a cross to it for fear of looking like they're following the crowed - just have your own opinions.

This sounds like you both agree ("just have your own opinions") and disagree ("for fear of looking like they're following the crowed") with me so please tell me what you mean.

[The Fat Bioware Nerd]

Going back to the OP: people actually say that?

Did they watch both movies?

If you go to the Internet Movie Database some overzealous fanboys will say "Avatar is better than The Dark Knight by a lot, and if you don't agree then you're an idiot."

But when I call them out on it, I say, "The Dark Knight and Avatar are two completely different movies and if you can't tell the difference between a crime drama and an alien movie then YOU are idiot!" And I usually get ignored by the original poster.

[MJN SEIFER]

This sounds like you both agree ("just have your own opinions") and disagree ("for fear of looking like they're following the crowed") with me so please tell me what you mean.

What I mean is some people will refuse to like something PURELY because they don't want to join the hyped up crowed, rather than simply trying the said something (film, programme, video game etc) and seeing if they like it themselves. I always give things ago, and don't care if they're are "in" or not. Does that make more sense, I'll try to explain further if you like, it's difficult to put in words really.

[Sephiroth]

What I mean is some people will refuse to like something PURELY because they don't want to join the hyped up crowed

No, it is okay like you have explained. But it is not that I don't watch it because I don't want to be a part of a hype, I don't watch it because I already know how they characters look like and this is a normal reason for not watching a movie. I have noticed in my first post I wrote "And because of that avatar hype I have never watched it". That's not true. I will edit it. It simply is annoying to hear how awesome and wonderful it is because of the graphics. And that's all I have said before. Because graphics cannot be the main reason to be the best movie ever. And it is not like there were just C64 graphics before Avatar has existed. There already were high quality animations.

[BG-57]

How did these movies get lumped together? They are completely different in storyline, tone, and message. The only similarities are they are intended as mass entertainment.

On the subject of inspiration for Avatar it also owes quite a lot to both Dances with Wolves and Dune. It's certainly popular, but that's not the same as being great. Visually it's quite gorgeous, but the plot is hokey and predictable. One of the most blatant deus ex machina plot resolutions ever. But for all that, it is an entertaining popcorn movie, but it's not even remotely close to being one of the best movies of all time.

The Dark Knight is a better film, not just because the actors sell their characters better, rather than being subsumed by special effects. In addition the story is about morality and ethics when confronted with evil. Avatar has a much simpler good-versus-evil conflict, with the side that every character eventually choses completely obvious from the moment we are introduced to each.

James Cameron is on the cutting edge of special effects, but he plays it very safe when it comes to screenplays.

[champagne supernova]

How did these movies get lumped together? They are completely different in storyline, tone, and message. The only similarities are they are intended as mass entertainment.

On the subject of inspiration for Avatar it also owes quite a lot to both Dances with Wolves and Dune.

POCAHONTAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see the similarity with Dances with Wolves, but Dune? Maybe the movie, but not really the novel.

And people got post-Avatar depression because they linked the harvesting of unobtainium with many of our activities and realised that humans are harming the planet!!!!! In related news, water is wet.

So yeah, I would (and I don't want to sound mean) consider those people ignorant. Most of us are already aware of this fact and have dealt with it. But it must have come as quite a shock initially.

[Dreddz]

The Dark Knight just comes across as pretentious movie making to me. Good for one or two viewings but no more. Avatar is easy to watch and does have a few notable advantages over The Dark Knight. For one James Cameron can actually choreograph an action scene well unlike Christopher Nolan. I'm a rather simple guy so I appreciate that stuff more than nuanced dialogue and complex narratives.

[Depression Moon]

No, it is okay like you have explained. But it is not that I don't watch it because I don't want to be a part of a hype

what does this mean then?


I am one of the guys who doesn't just follow the stream.


I have seen it and say it is overrated. And that's it.


Before you edited that post you didn't say you knew the whole thing that makes the movie which is the visuals, sound effects, and story.

[BG-57]

POCAHONTAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see the similarity with Dances with Wolves, but Dune? Maybe the movie, but not really the novel.

The whole plot revolves around an off worlder who goes native with the indigenous people, falls in love with one of them and leads them to victory against their enemies . Of course that's similar to Dances with Wolves as well, but for the fact that the hero exploits legends of a messiah and actually becomes what he was pretending to be. And the fighting over a rare and precious resource (spice/unobtanium) that is only available on one planet.

And the miniseries is much better than the David Lynch movie.

[champagne supernova]

BG-57, I agree with you on those points, but Dune is a lot more complex than Avatar. Paul Atreides being the Kwisatz Haderach, the actual effect of the spice, both as a prescient drug and the impact it has on civilisation, the relationship between society, religion and politics - this could go on forever. And the Fremen weren't spiritually in touch with the planet as in Avatar, they were just more aware of the conditions of it as they lived in the deep desert (although that is kind of similar to Avatar). And the Fremen were trying to terraform Dune.

Basically, Dune > Avatar. In my opinion.

[Momiji]

I saw the movie, and I thought it was crazy overrated. I thought some parts were laughable, and I was honestly *really* surprised by how well it was received.

It was the scenery porn that sold it for me, I guess-- the pretty settings was probably the only thing that kept me amused throughout the whole movie. I thought it was pretty boring otherwise-- and yes, as overrated as you say. :x

The Dark Knight was far better as far as everything else goes, if you ask me.

[MJN SEIFER]

No, it is okay like you have explained. But it is not that I don't watch it because I don't want to be a part of a hype, I don't watch it because I already know how they characters look like and this is a normal reason for not watching a movie. I have noticed in my first post I wrote "And because of that avatar hype I have never watched it". That's not true. I will edit it. It simply is annoying to hear how awesome and wonderful it is because of the graphics. And that's all I have said before. Because graphics cannot be the main reason to be the best movie ever. And it is not like there were just C64 graphics before Avatar has existed. There already were high quality animations.

I see what you mean. I agree that films (or anything) shouldn't be concidered "the best ever" because of how it looks. I thought Avatar looked great, but that's not why I liked it, I loved the storyline even though I had heared it before (think ESPERS!) I think they did well taking a "done" story and making it good. IMO, but that's just me - but yeah, the graphics were the least important factor in the end, if I had hated the film the graphics would have paled into insignificance.

[Sephiroth]

Before you edited that post you didn't say you knew the whole thing that makes the movie which is the visuals, sound effects, and story.

That's simply a lie because I wrote it in every single post here and has nothing to do with my edit. I've even complained about people not reading my posts properly because they didn't read that I know these things about Avatar. You can read it in all my posts.

And now I will stop replying. I wrote even more than I wanted.

[BG-57]

BG-57, I agree with you on those points, but Dune is a lot more complex than Avatar. Paul Atreides being the Kwisatz Haderach, the actual effect of the spice, both as a prescient drug and the impact it has on civilisation, the relationship between society, religion and politics - this could go on forever. And the Fremen weren't spiritually in touch with the planet as in Avatar, they were just more aware of the conditions of it as they lived in the deep desert (although that is kind of similar to Avatar). And the Fremen were trying to terraform Dune.

Basically, Dune > Avatar. In my opinion.

I wasn't saying that Avatar was better than Dune anyways, I just said the former took a lot of the latter as inspiration. For what it's worth I agree that Dune has a lot more complexity than Avatar. Too much detail at times, which is why cramming it into a 2 hour movie rendered it a confusing mess, but the more leisurely pacing of the miniseries allowed the story to evolve much more elegantly.

[Shiny]

You can't really have a legitimate opinion on how over or under rated something is, until you've rated it yourself. And you can't really rate a movie without having seen it.

Precisely! Miriel speaks the truth. I would change the word can't to you shouldn't. I like when people form opinions about something they actually have seen, read, or listened to instead of judging what they've seen from snippets of trailers or what have you.

With that said, I think The Dark Knight is better. I'm looking at both films in all angles and if we went by purely the script The Dark Knight obviously would be the better one. It depends on what appeals to the film-goer. If you're one of those people who like to sacrifice plot, acting, and originality for the sake of seeing some pretty effects, then yeah Avatar would be your movie.

[Rad Bromance]

They're both excellent films. Unfortunately, it's totally hip and cool to hate everything that's popular and widely praised, so Avatar will be the more complained about for years to come. Comparing them is utterly ridiculous as they aren't even the same genre of film.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Going back to the OP: people actually say that?

Did they watch both movies?

Pretty much what I was going to say. What bothers me is not the difference of genres, but that people could honestly compare them in anyway other than them both being movies.

The Dark Knight was fucking amazing.

[Clo]

People say this? You need to find better people to talk to if this is the stuff you keep hearing.

EDIT: Eggh, you saw it on the IMDB forums? They're terrible! I used to go there to see if I could find some answers sometimes if I had a question about the plot in a movie, but now I realize it's full of people who sniff paint thinner while they eat their breakfast every morning.

Are Sephiroth and seiferalmasy2 the same person, or just the same kind of person?

[Bunny]

I'm really glad I did not get involved in this thread when I first saw it.

[blackmage_nuke]

I hate when someone is talking about Avatar and I join the conversation only to be disapointed when I realise theyre not talking about the Last Airbender

[Levian]

It's definitely possible to prefer one of these movies over the other, doesn't that mean you've sort of compared them to eachother already?

That said, I don't think Avatar vs. The Dark Knight is a very common set up, so I don't think we have much of a problem here.

[MJN SEIFER]

Are Sephiroth and seiferalmasy2 the same person, or just the same kind of person?

Where did that come from?!:eek:

I highly doubt they're the same person - infact, I'm going to insist I'm right and say they're not.:roll2

[champagne supernova]

Are Sephiroth and seiferalmasy2 the same person, or just the same kind of person?

I smell a conspiracy :eek:

[Clo]

I meant the comment lightly. I would much rather speak of how you can't really take any thread in the IMDB forums too seriously. :p

[Madame Adequate]

All joking aside, Avatar is a much better film tbf.

[MJN SEIFER]

I meant the comment lightly. I would much rather speak of how you can't really take any thread in the IMDB forums too seriously. :p


Judging from my experience in the TFD forums, I agree with you, find it hard to take IMDB members (except the select few). I get that every films going to have haters, but the TFD haters seam to be so desperate to make everyone else hate the film, they seem to be exagerating the films bad points (e.g. "It used bad CGI" - which actually only lasts for about half a second, so there's no point in mentioning it.) or even making things up (e.g. "They showed all the deaths in full during the trailer" - which they didn't, they showed how TWO of the characters would die, and even that wasn't infull, the trailer did a great job of looking like it was spoiling when it wasn't. I love TFD.:jess:)

[Depression Moon]

Before you edited that post you didn't say you knew the whole thing that makes the movie which is the visuals, sound effects, and story.

That's simply a lie because I wrote it in every single post here and has nothing to do with my edit. I've even complained about people not reading my posts properly because they didn't read that I know these things about Avatar. You can read it in all my posts.

And now I will stop replying. I wrote even more than I wanted.

That's funny every single post; then what's this?


Avatar ist completely overrated and just so popular because not everyone is used to high definition super mega video game graphics. I admit and respect it looks great but it is completely overrated because cool graphics = greatest movie ever is the dumbest thing I have ever read or heard.

Oh and by the way - those wannabe cat-elves look riddiculus. I don't want to watch a 3 hours movie with main characters who look like that. Especially their noses are...very very strange.

Just describes visuals.