Mystery about dreamworld

[Future Esthar]

Am I the first one who find strange that Ward says "Woo,not again" when he hears the "fairy" sounds?
He was on Timber forest when that happens and as far as I know there are no dreams from before that.
So who did Ellone sent to their head before?

[champagne supernova]

Am I the first one who find strange that Ward says "Woo,not again" when he hears the "fairy" sounds?
He was on Timber forest when that happens and as far as I know there are no dreams from before that.
So who did Ellone sent to their head before?

Ward says "Woo, not again," because Laguna has gotten them lost. Again.

[Future Esthar]

No.That is not this.

[McLovin']

Yes it is. Kiros says "Laguna are you sure this is the right way?" then you change to the next screen and as you're walking Ward says "Hoo, boy not again" referring to them being lost! It's done this way to keep the pacing up because the player has no idea what's going on.

[Serapy]

Yes it is. Kiros says "Laguna are you sure this is the right way?" then you change to the next screen and as you're walking Ward says "Hoo, boy not again" referring to them being lost! It's done this way to keep the pacing up because the player has no idea what's going on.

You speak as if VIII is not ambiguous, and that it's 100% clear. Well, sorry, but it's a fact that VIII is ambiguous, and therefore, it's wrong of you to wrong others just because they have different point of views.

[Clo]

Except that dialogue is not ambigous.

"(statement about them essentially being lost)"
"Hoo boy not again."

:|

It's set up in a direct sequence that shows this is the most obvious meaning behind the dialogue.

[champagne supernova]

Except that dialogue is not ambigous.

"(statement about them essentially being lost)"
"Hoo boy not again."

:|

It's set up in a direct sequence that shows this is the most obvious meaning behind the dialogue.

Don't worry, apparently even the most straight-forward and unambiguous dialogue has some deeper, unseen meaning that we can't see ;) Some of these theories are interesting, I will admit, but there is no space to manoeuvre in this one.

[Future Esthar]

He says this after our characters think inside them.
I am not talking about the event near the car.
What I said happened either on the first screen or the second,I am positive about this.

[champagne supernova]

SeeD: (Hmmm...?)

[Off in the jungle, three men dressed in Galbadian uniforms run
down a path. This sudden appearance elicits odd responses from
the three SeeD members who are nowhere to be seen (they'll be
denoted as 'SeeD' because they have no labels in this state of
being).]

SeeD: (What the...!?)

SeeD: (Huh?)

Man: "Uhh, Laguna, are you sure this is the right way?"

[The three soldiers run into the next screen, a bunch of burning
grass lighting the battle-ready mood.]

SeeD: (Where am I?)

SeeD: (Dream?)

SeeD: (?)

[The large man with a harpoon, Ward, speaks up.]

Ward: "Hoo-boy, not again..."

[In the next screen:]

SeeD: (?) [This comes up seven times, so it's probably not the same
person thinking it.]

[In the next screen:]

Ward: "Hey, aren't we here to fight a war? You know, against the
almighty Timber army?"

Kiros: "Yeah, so why are we wasting our time messin' with these
animals?"

Laguna: "Well, you see... It's just that, uhh..."

Kiros: "Don't tell me we're lost again."


It seems fairly straightforward.

[McLovin']

If you can find more instances of the dream characters being aware of something then go for it.

[MJN SEIFER]

If you can find more instances of the dream characters being aware of something then go for it.

Well, I dunno... How about;


I think the faeries are here...


Faeries = Squall and friends, so yeah.:p

[Future Esthar]

Thanks Champagne.

There is no evidence Ward was referring to them being lost.
There is also no evidence to the contrary.

But Ward says that RIGHT AFTER Seed thinks so my theory is the most plausible.

[Crop]

Thanks Champagne.

There is no evidence Ward was referring to them being lost.
There is also no evidence to the contrary.

But Ward says that RIGHT AFTER Seed thinks so my theory is the most plausible.

Not really. Since this was the first time they had experienced it, and there is no evidence to suggest they had gone through it before, it fits better with the fact that Laguna had gotten them lost.

I'm also pretty sure that they would have discussed it more, rather than just a passing comment by Ward.

[Future Esthar]

Not really. Since this was the first time they had experienced it

Evidence,please.


But Ward says that RIGHT AFTER Seed thinks so my theory is the most plausible.


Cause and consequence.End.

[champagne supernova]

But Ward says that RIGHT AFTER Seed thinks so my theory is the most plausible.


Cause and consequence.End.

And when they meet Laguna in Esthar, he talks about the times that Squall and company were junctioned (or whatever its technical term) is to them. He said they thought it was 'the faeries', as they gave them extra power in battle. This implies that they could not feel or hear the thoughts of the SeeDs, i.e the relationship was uni-directional. So, whether the SeeDs were thinking or whether they were not thinking, the trio of Laguna, Kiros & Ward would remain oblivious, just knowing that the junction had occurred because they were now more powerful.

[Crop]

Not really. Since this was the first time they had experienced it

Evidence,please.



How about evidence that they HAD gone through it before?

It's fair enough that Laguna mentions 'the faeries' after the dream world had been experienced before in game, but this was the first dream they had gone though, no previous dream is mentioned.

[champagne supernova]

It's fair enough that Laguna mentions 'the faeries' after the dream world had been experienced before in game, but this was the first dream they had gone though, no previous dream is mentioned.

Oh, I'm not agreeing with this theory. My point is that when Laguna talks about his experience when Squall & Co were there, he doesn't indicate that they could hear the thoughts.

Therefore, the SeeDs thoughts could not lead to Ward reacting by saying, "Not again," as he would not have noticed the actual thought. He would have noticed that they were there because he would feel more powerful, but the actual junction came a while before that, and therefore it would be quite a delayed reaction for him to suddenly say, "Not again."

[Future Esthar]

So you are saying that Laguna Summoned a Gf in front of the hotel bar woman on Deling City?
Or in front of Raine while talking with Kiros?
I don´t think so.:):):):)

[blackmage_nuke]

But when the group's conciousness is transfered back in time Laguna and Co become stronger because of the GF's. If this is so, why would Ward say "not again". If it had happened before, wouldnt he be pleased that they got a sudden power boost?

However getting lost isnt a pleasant experience, so Ward refering to them being lost again is the more likely explanation.

[Future Esthar]

They complain about the buzz on their heads.They can´t understand what it´s saying but they perceive it.

[BG-57]

The real mystery of the dreamworld is how items Laguna buys winds up in Squall's inventory.

[blackmage_nuke]

They complain about the buzz on their heads.They can´t understand what it´s saying but they perceive it.

When have they ever complained or expressed any discomfort due to Squall and co being there? Sure theyve commented on it but never negatively

[Iceglow]

The real mystery of the dreamworld is how items Laguna buys winds up in Squall's inventory.

and vice versa

[Future Esthar]

Also,how can Zell know about Ellone when her ship arrives given that he don´t dream about Winhill?

[Propagator]

Coincidence. Pure & Utter Coincidence.

Though I do have one thing to ponder.. almost supporting Future Esthars theory :S
In Winhill, while at the bar when Laguna is asking Kiros questions, you get to pick the questions Laguna asks. One of them is a thought of Squalls along the lines of "Where am I?" Picking this, thus gives an explanation of where he is. So there!
Not saying I agree or disagree though... If I recall correctly, Laguna says it just game them power in battle.

[blackmage_nuke]

Also,how can Zell know about Ellone when her ship arrives given that he don´t dream about Winhill?

The White SeeD Ship part happens after the flashback of the orphanage when they all recall thier memories

[Future Esthar]

I am talking about their appearance on disk 2 blackmage_nuke

[McLovin']

Coincidence. Pure & Utter Coincidence.

Though I do have one thing to ponder.. almost supporting Future Esthars theory :S
In Winhill, while at the bar when Laguna is asking Kiros questions, you get to pick the questions Laguna asks. One of them is a thought of Squalls along the lines of "Where am I?" Picking this, thus gives an explanation of where he is. So there!
Not saying I agree or disagree though... If I recall correctly, Laguna says it just game them power in battle.

interesting.

[Serapy]

The real mystery of the dreamworld is how items Laguna buys winds up in Squall's inventory.

So, you agree that some certain elements of gameplay do relate to external stuff.

The fairy princess in the final battle for example. The Co. party don't easily die in that battle. What if Laguna and his party were responsible for that immortal stuff (fairy princess)?

Proof: Acknowledge that the minds of Squall and his party are active inside the minds of Laguna and his party. Right, so when Laguna or one of his members dies, the Squall and his party won't be physically affected.

I think when Ultimecia casted her time compression; causing everything to be compressed (mixed?). I mean, if you physically mix two things, you get some increased power, right? Maybe that has something to do with the fairy thing.

[BG-57]

I've always been careful to distinguish between artifacts that exist purely for the player's benefit and ones that internally contribute to the story. For example, few would question why monsters and allies have floating numbers appear over their heads when they take damage or get healed: it provides practical information for the player. The characters do not seem to notice, which is fine since it serves an external purpose not and internal one.

My guess as to the inventory thing is in case the player found themselves low on potions and the like and can't proceed through the dreamworld without restoking. So it's not really related to the plot. What makes it jarring is that although Ellone's power can transmit consciousness and GFs (which could both exist as energy) through time, material objects are a whole other ball of wax.

So the inventory is really an external issue and the transmission of consciousness is internal. But it would have been funny if Squall wondered out loud how those potions Laguna bought wound up in his pocket. :)

[Goldenboko]

I really hope Serapy and Future Esthar never play Metal Gear Solid, or they'll have all sorts of crazy theories after the Psycho Mantis fight. :spin:

[Future Esthar]

I already played.

And I have theories indeed.

Mainly about Big Boss.

He appears in the game on disguise and I know who he is.

He has two disguises.

[Goldenboko]

To that I only have a single thing to say: "Metal Gear."

[ChickenHeart]

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing you just did Boko!

[Future Esthar]

I don´t wanna to discuss this here but he is Revolver Ocelot,the only survivor.
After he escapes he phones you pretending to be the Minister of Defense.


To that I only have a single thing to say: "Metal Gear."


Didn´t play that but can you prove he is dead?

Tell me exactly how he die please.

I don´t wanna go offtopic though.


The fairy princess in the final battle for example.

It´s Ellone,Ulti´s daughter.
Her mother get possessed spreading chaos and terror.

The White Seed looked at the painting "In the Garden Sleeps a Messenger" made by Ellone.
She saw that on her visions.
They recognized the place on the painting and knew they had to take Ellone there to save her from Ulti.
But Ulti attaches her castle on their ship preventing them from leaving.
She "kills" them.But Ellone make them sleep and Ulti thinks they are dead.
One of Ultimecia´s lovers manage to save Ellone from Ulti knowing also that her dead has disappeared.
That lover is one of the watchers of the castle.He and his two pals take Ellone to a flower field far away(image on painting).
She wanna go there.
When Ultimecia knows about Ellone´s wereabouts she gets desperate because she knows Elle is using her ability there.
She then creates an holographic wall(Lunatic Pandora) around her castle to deceive Squall and Company into thinking she is going to compress time.
Meanwhile a true "time compressed" world is created.

I believe Ellone uses her ability during the battle with Ulti which generates the appearance of a good fairy.

[McLovin']

I don´t wanna to discuss this here but he is Revolver Ocelot,the only survivor.
After he escapes he phones you pretending to be the Minister of Defense.


To that I only have a single thing to say: "Metal Gear."


Didn´t play that but can you prove he is dead?

Tell me exactly how he die please.

I don´t wanna go offtopic though.


The fairy princess in the final battle for example.

It´s Ellone,Ulti´s daughter.
Her mother get possessed spreading chaos and terror.

The White Seed looked at the painting "In the Garden Sleeps a Messenger" made by Ellone.
She saw that on her visions.
They recognized the place on the painting and knew they had to take Ellone there to save her from Ulti.
But Ulti attaches her castle on their ship preventing them from leaving.
She "kills" them.But Ellone make them sleep and Ulti thinks they are dead.
One of Ultimecia´s lovers manage to save Ellone from Ulti knowing also that her dead has disappeared.
That lover is one of the watchers of the castle.He and his two pals take Ellone to a flower field far away(image on painting).
She wanna go there.
When Ultimecia knows about Ellone´s wereabouts she gets desperate because she knows Elle is using her ability there.
She then creates an holographic wall(Lunatic Pandora) around her castle to deceive Squall and Company into thinking she is going to compress time.
Meanwhile a true "time compressed" world is created.

I believe Ellone uses her ability during the battle with Ulti which generates the appearance of a good fairy.

Ellone was seen in Winhill when she was like 5. So how could she do anything before that, especially in the future:roll2! She was an infant!

[MJN SEIFER]

Ellone was seen in Winhill when she was like 5. So how could she do anything before that, especially in the future:roll2! She was an infant!

Right, she'd have to be a character in a video game involving time travel to do that! Oh wait...:p

[Future Esthar]

Ultimecia´s Castle is on the past and on a different timeline.
The timeline where Squall is Zell´s father and etc...

[WhiteStorm]

Ultimecia´s Castle is on the past and on a different timeline.
The timeline where Squall is Zell´s father and etc...

WTF?????? Seriously, FE, you have to stop whatever you're smoking.

[Hollycat]

The reasons the items carry over is the same reason the gf's and magic carry over, they are part of squall's world. At some point one of the the three talks about how they got so much stronger when the fairies are around.

[Rostum]

Ultimecia´s Castle is on the past and on a different timeline.
The timeline where Squall is Zell´s father and etc...

Loooooooooooooooooooool.

[MJN SEIFER]

Ultimecia´s Castle is on the past and on a different timeline.
The timeline where Squall is Zell´s father and etc...

Loooooooooooooooooooool.

No, I get it. I'm not saying FE's right, but I can see how he reached that conclusion. The first part is more likley to be true than the second, and I'll admit that I don't fully buy the characters being related via WOTC, because it clashes with my theories, but I still like reading FE's theories, and I see how he arrived at this. It all depends on your interpretation.

I do think that Ultimecia's Castle is on the past... and the future though...

[Cuchulainn]

Ultimecia´s Castle is on the past and on a different timeline.
The timeline where Squall is Zell´s father and etc...

Get. Laid.

[MJN SEIFER]

Get. Laid.

Why are you talking to yourself?

[Jiro]

Yeah time to end this. Reviving old threads is bad White Storm!