Item refinement flowchart or map?

[dpcollier128]

Is there any graphical flowchart image (like a map) that shows how much of what items and what methods (abilities) are needed to refine whatever item and into what items (even from card mod)?

I want to attempt to build something like this, if no one has already, and I just wanted to gauge from any of you... How insane would I have to be to do this? lol

[Rantz]

It wouldn't be impossible! Just make sure you plan it out in advance - what is best to use to make the image, how to structure it, and so on!

[GrimmReaper]

This is certainly easily feasible with a certain amount of patience. An idea to help you, is you would probably benefit from using a map as a legend for the flowchart as well if you fancy.

[dpcollier128]

Thanks guys. If you find anything out there like this, tell me not to waste my time and drop a link in this thread. :D

[Loony BoB]

I think this would be neat, although I wonder if a flow chart is the best way to go about it. It would be absolutely huge. :p Perhaps there would be a way to code it together so that you select an item name from a drop down menu and then it displays the ways that you can create that item (and the ways to create the items needed to create that item, if possible).

How are you going to plan it? Using a spreadsheet, or Visio, or on paper, or something else?

[dpcollier128]

I'm using adobe Illustrator, but I can see your point already... memory this is going to take is huge. Yesterday, I was only halfway done with the first level of the card modding tree and my system was chugging along to save, move objects, and rewrite text. But I noticed that Firefox was up with my ungodly number of tabs... so I closed and saved that, but still the memory usage will become a pretty big problem for me as I start adding more items to the tree.

[BG-57]

This may or may not help, but I made a diagram of all the pathways to maximize stats permenantly. I apologise for the handwriting.

[dpcollier128]

An update:

I have pieced together many objects to form the three primary magic trees (Fire, Ice, and Thunder) from materials derived from the cards in the game.

I initially created this refinement tree full of color and different shapes, but I have found, through testing conversion into a JPEG format, that the colors tend to become mixed together and make some of the text, too, to become illegible and pixelated.

I have done further testing; it is my belief that larger objects will make text less pixelated and reverting to black and white for most of the objects will help retain further legibility when converting the image.

It would be greatly appreciated to receive pointers on what image types will retain the best resolution and possibly color quality for the image that will be exported as a product of this project.

Thanks much guys. :)

PS: I cannot figure out how to upload an image.

[GrimmReaper]

It would be greatly appreciated to receive pointers on what image types will retain the best resolution and possibly color quality for the image that will be exported as a product of this project.

PNG

[BG-57]

PS: I cannot figure out how to upload an image.

When making a post, scroll to the bottom of the screen. There should be a Manage Attachments button. Hit it, and you get a new box that lets you browse through computer files and post them. Be careful that it fits the size limitations. Once you select it, hit upload then close out that box. You're back to the make a post screen, where you can enter text and post.

If you're editing an older post, that option won't be visible. You have to hit the Go Advanced button and it should become available.

[dpcollier128]

Update:

I have found the way to post images on this site... but there's a problem. The other site I plan to host this image on has an image size restriction too low for the entirety of the work to be posted in one large image. So, I am going to experiment with methods to split the trees into more bite-size portions for posting, As opposed to reducing the size of all the objects, which would reduce the resolution for the text and other elements.

I have also chosen PNG format for the images. I have tested several formats and I have found that PNG will provide the sharpest resolution of what I have tested and of what the site I wish to post it on accepts.

I have made more progress into the refinement trees that involve the magic refinement methods (up to Suport Magic right now), but I have much more to go, haven't even touched the many refinement methods for medical items. O.o

[BG-57]

We have an artists gallery section with much more generous size restrictions. I've posted helpful diagrams like yours there, especially when posting images was disabled for a while.

[dpcollier128]

Update:

Due to the strain on my system, I have resorted to constructing the general flow of the refinement trees in a more simplified format to cut down memory consumption. For one, I am no longer using an Item type line and am leaving out all pre-arranged cards, resorting to a "build-as-I-go" method for both in-coming and out-going items. I am also arranging the various items in the list on the fly, arranging them so there is as little visual intersection of refinement method arrows as possible.

[Saber]

This may or may not help, but I made a diagram of all the pathways to maximize stats permenantly. I apologise for the handwriting.

You can buy many items from the Esther shop and make the stat up items. The only exception is the Vit Up, which your best bet is to fight and devour Adamantiose on long horn island. They drop adamantine and raise Vit up each one you devour. Anyways the items @ Esther are short cuts to most of your graph.

To get money buy 100 tents, turn them into 10 mega potions, sell, rinse, repeat.

I was thinking the graph should like

.........Refine techniques 1 ... Refine Techniques 2...
Potion 10= 1 hi potion ........ 50 = 1 mega potion
Hi potion 10= 1 mega potion ........ 100 = tent

That's just an example but put all the items that can be refined on the left and then put all the techniques up top. After that just fill in what makes what.

[BG-57]

Note that I factored in the total cost of buying items and refining them. It's pretty expensive. What's the profit margin on refining tents?

[Saber]

tents cost 750 with haggle, and 1000 without. Its best to do this with all of tonberry's Abilities learned. Then the results are like this :

100 tents (75000 Gil) = 25 mega potions from recovery med-RF.
Then the 25 Mega-P's sell for 187500 gil.

So you get a 112,500 dollar profit. :D :)

[BG-57]

So about 7 rounds of that to afford 100 HP-J scrolls, 70 for 100 Str-J scrolls. Seems cost-effective, at least for the former.

This is one of the FFs where stat maxing is feasable. Pity then that junctioning makes it redundant.

[Saber]

It takes a long time but when you have nothing less to do in the game it kind of makes sense. I do strongly urge people to do a low level challenge and get Cactaurs level up + abilities along with Bahamuts 4x ability thing. That way you can load up on strength, magic, vitality, and spirit level up bonus. HP is the least of your worries as the HP up 10 items are cheapest. On my last playthrough I only got Irvines and Rinoa's stats maxed. All my other characters were great but those two had 255 all around.

[Rantz]

Don't forget about refining Cottages as well as Tents. Whereas Tent->Mega-Potion refining is 4:1, Cottage->Mega-Potion refining is 2:1, increasing your net profit to 352,500 gil each go if you refine both.

[BG-57]

I used Lvl Up bonuses whenever the oppurtunity arose. But I tried stat max farming for 5 or 6 hours before I decided it wasn't worth it.

[dpcollier128]

Update:

I've started from scratch... again. Trying a method of building the trees in both directions for each item then I "connect" any item branches that I have already formed. I hope that this method will cut down on intersecting refinement graphics.

I still can't find a way to export the images of my progress on this site so it fits within the image size restrictions. It seems that any coherent section of the work that is descriptive of such progress has proven too large. I'll see what I can do to export some visual progress, but after I've made more extensive progress on the trees.

[BG-57]

How does it look? Are you color coding?

The most complex diagram I've seen in biology is this of the central metabolic processes of a cell:


http://www.wellesley.edu/Chemistry/chem227/metabolism/metab.jpg

Maybe it can be useful.

[dpcollier128]

O.o lol wow! That is a complex piece of work right there. No it doesn't really help me in the conventional sense, but I sure get a kick out of it.
Sadly, the legibility of that chart seems to have suffered for being so complex I would still have to break up my final work into several sections and somehow link them all together.

And yes, I will be color coding the final work for refinement methods (e.g. F Mag-RF vs. Card Mod etc.), item types (e.g. Magic vs. Cards vs. Medication vs. random assortments of Resources etc.), and using the beginning and end point graphics for methods I could possibly project what type the item is refined from/to using that refinement ability.

[dpcollier128]

Update:

I have recently started school again (college classes) and I'm trying to get back to the project as much as possible (between classes and raiding in another game you might know of :D).

I have also recently started from scratch on a different method to the trees, going through the trees to find "filler" items in the trees in an attempt to find self-contained areas with more definite beginning and ending points.

Self-contained trees will most likely need to be put into their own subgroups, as the branches of the main trees are enormous. The filler items are items that don't really fit in with the other item types I have classified for the chart: magic, ability scrolls, medication, and ammo & tools (in the same group).

As of yet, I find an extended, searchable excel spreadsheet to be the most efficient and uncomplicated form for the game's refinement system; seeing as the number of items you can produce and re-produce are so convoluted.

I will continue to post updates as things happen to this project.

PS: I vaguely remember the policy on double posting... but can't remember exactly what it was. Is it alright if I post updates like this?

[Rantz]

Double posting is fine when it's for progress updates and the like, don't worry!

[dpcollier128]

...Damn. It's been a while. Sorry for the blatant necromancy.

My computer has been out of commission for a bit, so I had to put off this project while I got that fixed.

I'll try to do as much work as I can between school and various other things, but a more graphical chart may not be in the works until after I get a concrete spread completed (possibly with the Excel spreads I already have).

[dpcollier128]

Hah! All hail dpcollier128, the thread necromancer!:p

I'm finally back on this project. For a while there, I thought I should just submit my comprehensive excel spreads as a guide/resource for the game... but not many places accept that type of file.

I played around some more with an old Adobe Illustrator version... files became a bit too big. Then, I got the idea to just draw the thing on a bitmap! It was such a simple idea; that I didn't know why I hadn't thought of it sooner. I just open up paint, draw the lines as small as possible, and see that it's good. Not really quick but effective.

Almost no problems with file size... though I still feel that some splitting of the chart will need to be done. It's gonna be messier, but more compact than my original idea, but I think it'll work well enough.

Been off to school... and back to summer again. Shame I didn't think to reopen this thing til I started school back up again, but there ain't much to do for games this summer/fall yet... so I hope I'll get some of it done before the next big thing comes out.

Here's a key for the initial design, from a chart that's a work in progress... might need a bit more descriptive key before the end tho:

34873

PS: the font (aside from the numbering) isn't hand drawn; it's called .Dialogue 9. Don't know where I got it but it works so well!

[Jiro]

I really like the layout, and the font is neat, so thank you for sharing the name!

I suppose thread necromancy is allowed in this instance, so work hard :D