The Avengers (Marvel)

[ScottyRedXIII]

Is it just me or is any one else excited abut 2012?

[Bunny]

I will remain excited so long as they do not remove Joss Whedon from the director's seat. I was disappointed when they replaced Edward Norton, but The Hulk is such a lame character it doesn't even matter.

[Depression Moon]

The Hulk, lame? get out

[ScottyRedXIII]

I will remain excited so long as they do not remove Joss Whedon from the director's seat. I was disappointed when they replaced Edward Norton, but The Hulk is such a lame character it doesn't even matter.

No the hulk is not lame, just misunderstood. it was a shame to see edward Norton not returning as bruce, but the list of names to replace him seem's good, one name in particular (David Tennant)

[Slothy]

I'm not too bothered by replacing Norton, but only because the Hulk movie looked like absolute :bou::bou::bou::bou: in the trailers so I decided not to waste my money. Won't complain if they replace him with David Tennant actually.

But yeah, as much as I am still skeptical of the way they cast Captain America, the movie is being directed by Joss Whedon, and we can still look forward to Robert Downey Jr., Scarlet Johanson and Sam Jackson so it's hard to complain too much. There's also been talk of Jeremy Renner playing Hawkeye I believe which would be pretty cool, so I'd have a hard time complaining about much of the casting.

[Proxy]

Really? Edward Norton isn't gonna be Bruce?
That's pretty effin' weak.

I'm super pumped for this movie and it will probably be my new jesus.

[Del Murder]

I'm definitely excited about this. I have my doubts it will work with this many main characters on one screen, but if anyone can do it Whedon can.

Hopefully it will be as good as the Iron Man franchise.

[Slothy]

I'm definitely excited about this. I have my doubts it will work with this many main characters on one screen, but if anyone can do it Whedon can.

I'd probably have doubts as well if they had to deal with the origin of each character, but since the major ones will already be established before the movie and with Joss in the drivers seat I can't see the ensemble cast really getting in the way. If anyone has experience writing and directing stuff with large casts of characters he does.

[Depression Moon]

I'm interested in seeing this in 2012, but I'm also wodnering what will Marvel be doing movie wise after that's over. in Iron Man 2 there was a hint of Blank Panther in one of the later scenes. I hope he makes an appearance in some movie or maybe get his own since Wesley been trying since the 90's.


The cast for this movie is supposed to be

Iron Man
Capt. America
Hulk
Antman
and
Wasp right?

[ScottyRedXIII]

I'm interested in seeing this in 2012, but I'm also wodnering what will Marvel be doing movie wise after that's over. in Iron Man 2 there was a hint of Blank Panther in one of the later scenes. I hope he makes an appearance in some movie or maybe get his own since Wesley been trying since the 90's.


The cast for this movie is supposed to be

Iron Man
Capt. America
Hulk
Antman
and
Wasp right?

Witch scene are you talking about?

And yes the original cast of the Avengers were them, but the Hulk was classed as an anti hero

[Bunny]

I will remain excited so long as they do not remove Joss Whedon from the director's seat. I was disappointed when they replaced Edward Norton, but The Hulk is such a lame character it doesn't even matter.

No the hulk is not lame, just misunderstood. it was a shame to see edward Norton not returning as bruce, but the list of names to replace him seem's good, one name in particular (David Tennant)

I apologize for allowing my opinion to poison the nature of this thread.

[Breine]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Especially now that Joss Whedon is directing. I friggin' love that man!

Also, the studio's decision to replace Edward Norton with somebody else was a bit strange.

[Depression Moon]

Has no one here seen this movie yet?

I've seen it and it's the best movie Marvel has done since Iron Man, maybe better depending on your prefs. Intense action and funny. Go see it if you haven't.

[Del Murder]

Going to see it tomorrow. Only hearing good things!

[charliepanayi]

I really liked it, there's some great lines and funny moments. Whedon isn't perfect, but when he's on top form, as his script is here, he's very good indeed. Robert Downey Jr is as good as ever, and Mark Ruffalo does really well as Bruce Banner I thought.

[GhandiOwnsYou]

All in all, very worthwhile. It's rather typical summer blockbuster fair, but that was kind of a given. I will say, Square deserves royalties for those giganto monsters in the climax. When those things showed up and started spewing minions off of themselves I immediately thought they a bit too similar to Sin from FFX. Also, The Hulk wins at everything.

[charliepanayi]

I kept thinking of R-Type with those creatures for some reason.

[CimminyCricket]

I loved the Avengers! I went to the movie theatre to see the Raven with my GF (but we were the only two and the projector for the avengers in another area exploded so they moved it to where they were going to show us the Raven and they let us see the Avengers for free), but I'm very glad I got to see the Avengers. The whole movie was awesome and I don't remember a part of the movie where I was disappointed.

Mark Rufallo for The Hulk 2013!!!!!!!

[Sephex]

Saw it. I liked it, and found myself enjoying the movie. It's not this "HOLY ****" movie some people are saying it is, but I say it was still a fun ride.

[NorthernChaosGod]

I thought it was fucking awesome. Everyone in the main cast did a spectacular job in their roles. I normally prefer Iron Man over all the others, but the Hulk managed to shift my loyalties a bit in this movie. :p

[Shlup]

Joss Whedon can do no wrong. I was pretty cheesed about Edward Norton being replaced with Mark Ruffalo, but I take it back.

[Freya]

When Whedon is on his game he is spot on. You could tell the whole movie was laced with his humor and seeing as I love his humor, it was perfect. The Hulk scenes were funny the last lulzy one my theater actually burst out in laughter and applause. Really good stuff. I was worried how they'd handle all the heros but they did a damn good job. Money well spent.

Apparently there was a second scene after the credits for american audiences only. It was only them sitting around eating after the battle with no dialogue. So meh, nothing worth really anything special for the other countries to have missed

[Depression Moon]

I think everyone's theatre laughed at that scene I know I did. I did wish though that Cap did more shield ricocheting. I don't think there was a single one as a matter of fact. Yeah I saw him throw it a couple of times, but it never bounced off anything and hit anyone.

[Del Murder]

This movie is great, on par with the upper tier of comic book movies. Whedon did a great job with a pretty difficult task of putting all these main characters together and trying to make a movie that tells a good story featuring all of them. After the credits I'm pretty psyched for the eventual Avengers 2. Thanos!

[Elskidor]

Going to see it a second time. I was never an Avenger comic book reader, but I've loved almost all the movie connected with the Avengers. Awesome flick! I wish they had executed the X-Films (non including First Class) to be as good as the Avengers. Also looking forward to the Batman, Spidey, Avengers movie box office gross wars to come later in the summer. My bet is on Avengers, but we all know Nolan can pack quite a punch.

[Miriel]

I feel absurdly, ridiculously happy for Joss Whedon right now. I've been a fan of his for 15 years! I mean jesus christ, that's a long time. And I feel like this is it, this is the moment when he goes from being just a decently established writer/director and an obvious cult favorite to being a household name. This movie is going to do for Joss what the Batman movies did for Christopher Nolan. After this, he's going to be able to pretty much do any project he wants. And I'm SO happy for him.

I didn't love The Avengers as much as other super hero movies, and didn't think it was OMFG amazing. But then again, few of the other super hero movies were as difficult to do or have as many possibilities for failure. The Avengers could have been massively bad. I mean, it could have easily been like a Fantastic Four movie. And just structurally, how difficult it is to get all the characters and plot points in place and do it cohesively and with meaning. Really tricky stuff and Joss pulled it off wonderfully. Lots of little Joss touches I noticed throughout the movie that I'm pretty sure wouldn't have existed with any other director. I also thought Ruffalo did a great job as Hulk, who I normally really could not give a crap about.



Apparently there was a second scene after the credits for american audiences only. It was only them sitting around eating after the battle with no dialogue. So meh, nothing worth really anything special for the other countries to have missed
I LOVED the scene, it totally cracked me up! Second only to the Hulk smash moments. :) But I love shawarma so...

[Slothy]

I feel absurdly, ridiculously happy for Joss Whedon right now. I've been a fan of his for 15 years! I mean jesus christ, that's a long time. And I feel like this is it, this is the moment when he goes from being just a decently established writer/director and an obvious cult favorite to being a household name. This movie is going to do for Joss what the Batman movies did for Christopher Nolan. After this, he's going to be able to pretty much do any project he wants. And I'm SO happy for him.

I have to agree with this general sentiment. I've loved Joss' work since Buffy and not only was this probably my favourite Marvel movie so far (though it doesn't stand on it's own. It wouldn't work at all without the other movies setting it up), but knowing it's already more than halfway to a billion dollars is pretty awesome. Not many writers/directors really deserve that kind of success, but for how long Joss has kind of toiled away with an (admittedly large) cult following, he deserves some more mainstream success. Hopefully this does let him do just about anything he wants. As long as one of them is Avengers 2 anyway. I don't think I'd trust anyone else to pull it off even if he did just tackle the hardest one to make.




Apparently there was a second scene after the credits for american audiences only. It was only them sitting around eating after the battle with no dialogue. So meh, nothing worth really anything special for the other countries to have missed
I LOVED the scene, it totally cracked me up! Second only to the Hulk smash moments. :) But I love shawarma so...

The Hulk smash bits were some of my favourites, and I have to agree; I loved that scene at the end of the credits. They deserved a break.

Also, since I'm sure some non-comic book fans won't get it, Thanos! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos)

That is all.

[Shattered Dreamer]

Joss Whedon can do no wrong. I was pretty cheesed about Edward Norton being replaced with Mark Ruffalo, but I take it back.

This & I liked the way Joss Whedon replaced all the normally pointless dialogue you get in super hero movies with whitty banter. Also Joss Whedon made Chris Evans interesting as Captain America

[CimminyCricket]

I was torn between Stark's comments and Hulk's actions as far as which was the most entertaining!

[Depression Moon]

Black Panther and Ms. Marvel for Avengers 2.

[Raistlin]

I enjoyed it. The bad was pretty predictable: it was at times very cramped and poorly paced, but that was a gigantic movie condensed to less than 2.5 hours. Not an amazing film, but very entertaining and worth seeing. The whole movie was hilarious. Of course, the most exciting part to me was the first after-credits scene. Seeing Thanos was awesome and made me want to go read the old Infinity Gauntlet series again, though I've barely touched comic books since I was about 13 or 14.

[Psychotic]

Just got back from it.

Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man Iron Man. Also, Hulk.

That's all I wanted to say. :love: Mind you, I rather liked Samuel L. Jackson too.

The writing was really nice, snappy and fast-paced, so it made it a really enjoyable movie. The action scenes were kind of ridiculous looking back on it. I know we've been desensitised to crazy ass CGI these days, but when you reflect on it they were awesome.

[DarkBahamut]

I saw the midnight premiere of this a couple of days ago and it was absolutely amazing. Packed theater, bunch of Marvel fans, and one awesome movie.

The Hulk was overly epic hahah

[chionos]

Movie was great. Ruffalo as Banner was surprisingly satisfying.

Seeing Thanos was awesome and made me want to go read the old Infinity Gauntlet series again, though I've barely touched comic books since I was about 13 or 14.

I wonder if they're going to go with the Infinity Gauntlet plot. It would be pretty damn difficult to pull off, especially since the Avengers version of the Infinity Gauntlet story used a different Avengers lineup (I think Hulk's the only one in both). So probably not I guess.
I wonder if they'll bring in the Silver Surfer or Adam Warlock.
There are quite a few established Thanos stories so there are several different directions they could go with it, all of them pretty cool.

[Freya]

I hope the new spidey movie ties into the avengers :3

[Mercen-X]

The Hulk is such a lame character it doesn't even matter.That's what my uncle said. I still prefer Norton over Ruffalo.


they let us see the Avengers for freeDid you still get to watch the Raven? Since I assume that all movies in a theater still require the same fare, if they didn't let you return to watch Raven for free, I'd say it's more like you got ripped off since it sounds like you didn't get to watch what you paid for. I suppose one could also view this as "balancing out"...

[Raistlin]

I wonder if they're going to go with the Infinity Gauntlet plot. It would be pretty damn difficult to pull off, especially since the Avengers version of the Infinity Gauntlet story used a different Avengers lineup (I think Hulk's the only one in both). So probably not I guess.

I sure as hell hope not. As awesome as it was, the Infinity Gauntlet plot was crazy. All the heroes died, and the entire cosmic forces of Galactus, et al fell before Thanos. There's no way to make a movie out of that unless you introduce all of those other powers. Although, now that I think about it, they probably could make a decent story out of Thanos trying to find the Soul Gems. But even without the Gauntlet, Thanos is a very formidable opponent, especially by Earth standards; he is a step up from Loki and his mercenary army.

[Roto13]

Whedonisms <3

[Depression Moon]

I hope the new spidey movie ties into the avengers :3

Peter's parents were S.H.I.E.L.D. agents so it's possible.

[Roto13]

Spider-Man has been an Avenger for years. If the new Spider-MAn movie is part of the Avengers movieverse, he could totally be in Avengers 2.

[Sephex]

Spider-Man has been an Avenger for years. If the new Spider-MAn movie is part of the Avengers movieverse, he could totally be in Avengers 2.

I can see it now.

*after the end of credits, Nick Fury all of a sudden confronts Spiderman after a grand adventure*

Nick Fury: You have have heard what happened here in New York not too long ago.

Spiderman: I might have seen something on the news...

[Jinx]

The new Spiderman movie just looks like shit.

[Freya]

Shoo shoo sam. You don't belong in these threads. They are too boy-ish for you. Go back to your Sailor Moon and Doll makers. This spidey movie looks AMAZING compared to the other ones.

[NorthernChaosGod]

The new Spiderman movie just looks like shit.

You're just horrible.

[Peegee]

The infinity gauntlet - wasn't it in the Thor movie?

I liked the movie. It's a good popcorn boom boom explosions movie.

The last battle was a bit nonsensical (how did they cover so much space? Did they just manage to kill everything before they could swarm out of control? pfft) and as Raistlin said the pacing goes awkward at certain spots, but overall a solid 7.x/10 movie.

I would rank the Marvel Avengers Movies thus:

Iron Man 1
Avengers
Iron Man 2
Thor
Captain America
Hulk

[Del Murder]

No love for the X-Men movies? My Marvel rankings:

1. Iron Man
2. X-Men 2
3. Thor
4. Avengers
5. X-Men: First Class

[Raistlin]

1. Iron Man
2. X-Men 2
3. X-Men
4. Iron Man 2
5. The Avengers/X-Men: First Class

I'd be happy to forget the rest of Marvel's movies.

EDIT: decided to move down First Class.

[Depression Moon]

1. Avengers
2. Iron Man
3. Blade
4. X-Men 1st Class
5. Thor

[Peegee]

I was ranking the avengers movies, not marvel movies. FTFM

Good to know that you didn't put spiderman movies anywhere in the last

if it were MARVEL movies:

1. Iron Man
2. Avengers
3. Iron Man 2
4. X-Men 2
5. X-Men 1

[Depression Moon]

Oh Avengers movie only? Ok then.

1. Avengers
2. Iron Man
3. Captain America
4. Thor
5. The Incredible Hulk

[Jiro]

Every motherfucker got a one liner. The Avengers was a glorious film and I am incredibly pleased with it.

[Mercen-X]

Thor and Hulk rode was left of a massive technorganic deployment vessel creature into the ground after fighting together for about fifteen minutes working in-synch to take down the weirdos they're fighting against. Finally done, Thor just about looks over at Hulk when the big green brute flicks his fist up quick as a whip, slamming Thor off-camera. Then he chuffs in some mixture of arrogance and some unsaid emotion like "That's what you get!"

My parents never thought they would laugh so hard at a hard-core half-nostalgic action-romp as this, and none of us have ever been so happy about it.

[ScottyRedXIII]

1. Avengers
2.Iron Man 1
2. The Incredible Hulk
3. Spiderman 1
4. X-Men First Class
5. X- Men (2000)

First Class was just in another league to all the other X- Men, would have ranked it higher but Spiderman always has that special place in my childhood heart, even if I dislike the 3rd. And the Incredible Hulk was a great film, definitely a step up from the embarrassment of a film called "Hulk". Captain America was just Meh, so was Thor for that matter, but the Avengers was well worth the wait giving every character there fair share in the film and even giving us a better insight to Hawk and Black widow seeing as they never got there own films. Every character was brilliantly written and was well worth the wait from when I posted this thread.

[ScottyRedXIII]

On another note, I didn't think films like X-Men and Spiderman could tie in with the Avengers at any point due to being owned by different companies? I no that Fox own X-Men, and Sony own Spiderman, so having all these big companies come together to work on a film is very unlikely....... but not impossible.....

[Roto13]

I wasn't sure if the new X-Men and Spider-Man reboots were still by Fox and Sony, but apparently they are, so I guess they're not part of the Avengers movieverse.

So no Spider-Man and Wolverine in Avengers 2. Which is fine with me, because both of those characters get a lot of exposure anyway. And I hate Hugh Jackman's completely unconvincing Wolverine.

[Depression Moon]

With all the money that Disney has they should just buy back both franchises. I've heard that although X-men is still owned by fox, they however don't own the rights to Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.

[krissy]

so i just saw it

PRETTY FUN FLICK

[Madonna]

Had the story not sucked so incredibly bad, it would have been brilliant.

[Roto13]

Had the story not sucked so incredibly bad, it would have been brilliant.

It's a superhero movie. What exactly were you expecting from it?

[Madonna]

Something with the main villain not getting his butt handed to him almost immediately and the final battle being, "Oh look, aliens!"? Do not get me wrong; I liked it, and you may try to defend the film by claiming it is only a superhero flick, but it is a movie and movies can be and have been done better. The superhero part just means they need to include some buff dudes in spandex.

[Roto13]

Loki is not a fighter. He never has been. He works through trickery, being, you know, a trickster god and all.

And the final battle being "oh look aliens"? What does that even mean?

[Miriel]

I can kinda see what he means. This movie's climax was a balls out holy crap invasion with tons of explosions and things being destroyed. Loki seemed kinda secondary to all that.

I preferred the story Loki had in Thor because it was more tragic and personal. In Avengers he was more RAAAAAH!!! I KILL AND RULE YOU ALL!!!! ALIENS EVERYWHERE!! And in Thor he was more, "NOBODY LOVES ME!! SADNESS AND ANGER!! ;_;" And Tom Hiddleston's sad puppy dog eyes are just so endearing. It's really what sold him to me.

[charliepanayi]

Something with the main villain not getting his butt handed to him almost immediately.

You mean one of the most hilarious movie scenes in recent times - that's the best bit in the film!

[Shaibana]

you njust gotta love the humor in that movie ^^
like those unexpected moves from the hulk :P
devenitly worht seeing, though im still sort of mad they didnt make a movie about Hawkeye and Black Widow. bcaus of that they really feel like outsiders.

[Madonna]

I may as well call SPOILERS ahead of time.


Loki is not a fighter. He never has been. He works through trickery, being, you know, a trickster god and all.
Right, let me break this down for you:
Tricksters best work when employed on the unsuspecting. Pretty sure he got outed in his last film.
He was the villain in Thor already. I cannot emphasize that sentence enough. It translates into: boring.
Action movie. smurf tricksters; Loki plays against an ensemble of the universe's strongest linebackers. All they do is charge and pound at things, namely him. Sure, parse it how you want, but Loki is not physical confrontation material.
Is there anything else you want me to laugh about when you mention "trickster"? I saw all of one scene where this was well-played (but obvious), where Hulk charges into the dead-drop cell. He cannot outplay Black Widow and in none of his fights did he really do something that struck our heroes sideways and out of left field.

That said, I loved the actor's portrayal was strong, he had some fun lines, and I think there was a lot of depth in the character, BUT ultimately Loki was the wrong guy for what the screenwriters wanted.


And the final battle being "oh look aliens"? What does that even mean?
Right, let me break this down for you:
Through the film, we see the villains as Loki and his crew of brainwashed SHIELD Agents. At the end, there are suddenly a horde of aliens for bad guys.

That is it. Had it not been obvious, I would have explained.

Yeah, yeah, I get that Loki was trying to bring them in all throughout the film and they are the real enemy, but what do we know about them? Nothing. They want to rule Earth, I... guess? By destroying buildings and killing civilians? We all know that is bad (strategy-wise and moral-wise), and of course the Avengers could not allow that to happen, but motivation and real conflict are missing. The army on the other side could have been anything: bears, llamas, space dragons, space robots, flame demons, anti-matter shadows, cybersharks, or anything, but all these suggestions and the aliens have the same thing in common. They lack depth, and because of that, who cares about the aliens?. Are there many comments in Avenger discussion threads about how much people hated those dreaded aliens and their dreaded not-agendas? How much of an impact did they make the audience?

We will refrain from going into how dumb it was to capture Loki, bring him to your airship, and fall for an obviously dumb trap. We will not talk about how contrived the tension was between the superheroes. We will not talk about how Hawkeye's and Black Widow's love story was started but went nowhere. Is there something else I missed from a short brainstorm? Let me be plain: it was a good movie if you plan on not thinking.

Also, post-script: in advance, smurf the comics. I am sure they have a rich and meaningful history which go into the alien invasion force and their background, but that was not presented at all in the film I watched.

[Slothy]

They want to rule Earth, I... guess?

No, they quite clearly state they don't care about Earth. They want the Tesseract so they can take over a lot more than just Earth and Loki says he can give it to them. His payment being to rule Earth which he only wants to do anyway because he sees himself as a God and he wants to hit Thor where it hurts.


They lack depth, and because of that, who cares about the aliens?

The aliens aren't the main villain. Loki is. But the aliens are there to provide the Avengers with a rather large challenge to overcome in the end. As such the aliens don't actually need a lot of depth yet, but I'll elaborate in a second.


Also, post-script: in advance, smurf the comics. I am sure they have a rich and meaningful history which go into the alien invasion force and their background, but that was not presented at all in the film I watched.

Of course it wasn't presented in this film. This film was about Loki more than anything else, and was meant to establish that there is more out there than even the Asgardians know about, as well as establish the aliens and Thanos as villains going forward into future movies. Because they will be villains going forward, which is going to be a problem when you consider how hard a time the Avengers had dealing with them this time. You aren't supposed to know a lot about them yet because the focus was clearly on Loki and they will become a major player down the road. You seem to be forgetting that the Avengers film franchises are able to play a pretty long game story-wise so they can get away with introducing them in this film and explaining more about them later when they become the main villains.

[Roto13]

As Vivi22 pointed out, the Chitauri didn't just appear out of thin air, and their intentions were no secret. If they seemed out of place to you, I guess you just weren't paying attention, which I kind of assumed from your post but I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt.

As for wanting them to change Loki into an brawler character, well, that's nice, I guess. I'd like to have seen Ms. Marvel show up and save the day but that didn't happen either. You have one or two good points about Loki being less effective as a known enemy and maybe they should have just used someone else, but they weren't going to change Loki into something he wasn't for the movie. That'd be dumb.

[Depression Moon]

I'd have liked to see Loki use more magic since he's one of the most powerful sorcerers of Asgard. All he did in the movie was his mind control and illusion casting when he has far more than that in his arsenal.

[Peegee]

comic related question:

Wizard Comics once posted top 10 superheroes. This was back when Spawn was popular, but the point is they ranked Thor under silver surfer, and then superman below Thor.

The question is naturally about Thor - How strong is he physically? Is he just strong, but with Mjolnir he's super duper strong? Because I can't imagine Thor standing toe-to-toe with Hulk and surviving. They might not be able to hurt each other but it will be a one-sided battle if they fought using brute strength.

It's nice to see The Hulk be as strong as he's supposed to be. In the first movie it wasn't very clear how strong Banner would be when he changed. Hulk is supposed to be on par with Superman - was he able to stop Juggernaut at any point in the comics?

[Mercen-X]

Let me be plain: it was a good movie if you plan on not thinking.

Well, I certainly didn't step into that theater with any intention of deep contemplation. I merely absorbed whatever information was NECESSARY to the plot. I can pay attention to the rougher details later when I'm freshening up my memory of the movie before watching the sequel.

I think you must have OCD and it greatly depresses me. I feel sorry for you.

By the way, I'll just ask this: How many superhero flicks have you seen that didn't give you the same basic impression Avengers left on you?

[Sephex]

My dad and I were talking about this near the movie's release. Just thought I would share this here for fun. If they ever rebooted Star Trek: The Next Generation the way they did for the original series, the actor who played Loki would be an excellent Data. This is especially true if they had Lore in the theoretical film.

[Depression Moon]

comic related question:

Wizard Comics once posted top 10 superheroes. This was back when Spawn was popular, but the point is they ranked Thor under silver surfer, and then superman below Thor.

The question is naturally about Thor - How strong is he physically? Is he just strong, but with Mjolnir he's super duper strong? Because I can't imagine Thor standing toe-to-toe with Hulk and surviving. They might not be able to hurt each other but it will be a one-sided battle if they fought using brute strength.

It's nice to see The Hulk be as strong as he's supposed to be. In the first movie it wasn't very clear how strong Banner would be when he changed. Hulk is supposed to be on par with Superman - was he able to stop Juggernaut at any point in the comics?

I don;t read much comics, but I know that Hulk's strength doesnt have any limits as stated on his wiki file. It all depends on how mad he gets and how long he's been fighting. He's been able to lift Thor's hammer before just from his strength. Thor has been able to lift one of the island's of new york and he's pretty decent in magic as well from what I read off of wikis

[Slothy]

The question is naturally about Thor - How strong is he physically?

Thor is very strong, but not Hulk strong. And Mjolnir doesn't actually enhance Thor's strength. It just let's him control weather, fly, and gives him access to a number of other powers which have rarely appeared in comics and I'm not sure how many are even cannon anymore.

As for fighting the Hulk brute strength vs. brute strength, he'd probably lose eventually, but it would take a long time, and I doubt even Thor would resort to trying to simply trade blows with him (at least not after a while).

And yes, the Hulk did once stop the Juggernaut. He was a horseman of Apocalypse at the time and enhanced with some Celestial technology, but it wouldn't surprise me if he could just do it anyway if he was mad enough. The Hulk kind of has his own built in rage based deus ex machina that gets him out of pretty much anything.

[Raistlin]

I think Lynx makes some good points. We might disagree on how much weight to give them and how much they impacted our enjoyment of the movie, but they remain valid points nonetheless.

1. Loki was a truly pathetic, ineffective villain. This is easily ignored in such an action-packed movie, but it remains true. In Thor, he did a lot of major trickster stuff that developed over the whole movie. In The Avengers... he tricked Thor into running into his cage. Yeah.

2. The early fighting between the heroes (thinking of Iron Man and Thor here) was embarrassingly fabricated. I would have liked some sign that Loki was magically causing it somehow (as I first assumed because it made no sense otherwise). I chalked this up to the movie being too fast and cramped to be developed properly.

3. The aliens just sort of happened. There was almost no development of this plot point. See #2.

[Madonna]

They want to rule Earth, I... guess?

No, they quite clearly state they don't care about Earth. They want the Tesseract so they can take over a lot more than just Earth and Loki says he can give it to them. His payment being to rule Earth which he only wants to do anyway because he sees himself as a God and he wants to hit Thor where it hurts.
Yeah, thanks for picking at the small issue instead of the bigger one presented there: the fact they are tearing up New York instead of military installations, the District of Columbia, or something of real military value. I do apologize for getting their motivation wrong; clearly they have a lot more character because their goal is to get a thing to take over more things.



They lack depth, and because of that, who cares about the aliens?

The aliens aren't the main villain. Loki is. But the aliens are there to provide the Avengers with a rather large challenge to overcome in the end. As such the aliens don't actually need a lot of depth yet, but I'll elaborate in a second.
I know the aliens are not the main villain, and that is my problem; they are the only challenge presented in the film. Loki himself is a total pushover at this point, when Thor joins a crew of superheroes because if he cannot beat Thor, what chance does he have against Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Hawkeye, and Black Widow? I would have preferred a Chitauri commander being the big bad as opposed to Loki, a guy out of his depth.



Also, post-script: in advance, smurf the comics. I am sure they have a rich and meaningful history which go into the alien invasion force and their background, but that was not presented at all in the film I watched.

Of course it wasn't presented in this film. This film was about Loki more than anything else, and was meant to establish that there is more out there than even the Asgardians know about, as well as establish the aliens and Thanos as villains going forward into future movies. Because they will be villains going forward, which is going to be a problem when you consider how hard a time the Avengers had dealing with them this time. You aren't supposed to know a lot about them yet because the focus was clearly on Loki and they will become a major player down the road. You seem to be forgetting that the Avengers film franchises are able to play a pretty long game story-wise so they can get away with introducing them in this film and explaining more about them later when they become the main villains.
In a geek's world, in a place where we care about cameos of unnamed villains, we know these things matter. We know the aliens are going to be back and we know Thanos is going to wipe the floor, ceiling, and entire space-time continuum with the Avengers. I unfortunately know a lot about comics I do not read, but I do not know how informed the rest of the non-comic book world is, so all they get is that the Chitauri are bastards and there is a bigger bad in the shadows. That clearly is not enough for anyone who is just going to watch one film. I am glad it is understood that this film alone is not enough, and that this franchise is about making you want or need to see the other films to get the full import. The problem here, for me, is that clearly sucks balls. I like movies that stand by themselves and are well-contained. I do not want to be told by anyone that I need to see the film before this or after this to get what is going on. If I wanted to do that, I would watch one big movie that had everything in it. I do not want to have to suffer another The Matrix: Reloaded and Revolutions issue; gods, how those two films depended on each other. The Avengers should have had a subtitle, something like The Preface. Ugh.

My response on the Loki issue: again, crap main villain. That he is the major focus in The Avengers is a terrible, horrible, abhorrent idea.


As Vivi22 pointed out, the Chitauri didn't just appear out of thin air, and their intentions were no secret. If they seemed out of place to you, I guess you just weren't paying attention, which I kind of assumed from your post but I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I did sort of space it out, I admit. However, having a new enemy appear suddenly at the end is still super weak. I guess it is good writing to set up for another film, but it really is used as an excuse to avoid a good climatic battle with the film's bad guy, Loki. They simply could not have one done well, apparently, because what they had was the Hulk slam Loki around like a ragdoll.


As for wanting them to change Loki into an brawler character, well, that's nice, I guess. I'd like to have seen Ms. Marvel show up and save the day but that didn't happen either. You have one or two good points about Loki being less effective as a known enemy and maybe they should have just used someone else, but they weren't going to change Loki into something he wasn't for the movie. That'd be dumb.
You misunderstand; why would I want to change Loki into a brawler? I plain just did not want Loki as the bad guy because they were not using him to his full trickster potential. I wanted to see him battle the heroes, perhaps one at a time, and use circumstance, terrain, and some ingenuity to best the heroes, or at least make them sweat. The only people Loki got the best of were SHIELD agents.



Let me be plain: it was a good movie if you plan on not thinking.

Well, I certainly didn't step into that theater with any intention of deep contemplation. I merely absorbed whatever information was NECESSARY to the plot. I can pay attention to the rougher details later when I'm freshening up my memory of the movie before watching the sequel.

I think you must have OCD and it greatly depresses me. I feel sorry for you.

By the way, I'll just ask this: How many superhero flicks have you seen that didn't give you the same basic impression Avengers left on you?
Good on you, Mercen-X, for being able to swallow everything you are fed, no matter how stupidly it is served up. I need not your sympathy.

When I start obsessively cataloging all the films I have seen and write out full-scale reviews for each of them, I can get back to you. I liked the first Spiderman, and the first and second X-Men. I cannot recall how much they hurt my brain because I last viewed them years ago. I can agree a great many superhero movies need to be done better, and consider a little logic when screenwriting, but is there anything else which is not The Avengers you wish to dredge up in a thread about this particular film?


I think Lynx makes some good points. We might disagree on how much weight to give them and how much they impacted our enjoyment of the movie, but they remain valid points nonetheless.

1. Loki was a truly pathetic, ineffective villain. This is easily ignored in such an action-packed movie, but it remains true. In Thor, he did a lot of major trickster stuff that developed over the whole movie. In The Avengers... he tricked Thor into running into his cage. Yeah.

2. The early fighting between the heroes (thinking of Iron Man and Thor here) was embarrassingly fabricated. I would have liked some sign that Loki was magically causing it somehow (as I first assumed because it made no sense otherwise). I chalked this up to the movie being too fast and cramped to be developed properly.

3. The aliens just sort of happened. There was almost no development of this plot point. See #2.
1. I believe I made the mistake of remembering it as the Hulk who ended up in the Hulk cage. Sorry, it was another hero with stronger logic faculties.
2. Yes.
3. I see how the aliens had to have happened, but that they only showed up to get thrashed is my big sore point. They do not talk, not even to each other, and are completely bland villains.

[Shiny]

I agree with all the statements said against Loki. He sucked horribly in this movie, but I thought it was great. I'm looking forward to seeing some of the Xmen or maybe Spiderman in Avengers 2. :)

The Hulk was actually my favorite in the film other then of course RDJ as I knew he would be a scene stealer. And yet, I felt all the Avengers got equally represented in this film.

As a super hero action film it stood it's ground. Over-intellectualizing this sort of genre is pointless, but for some reason people still do it.

[Slothy]

Yeah, thanks for picking at the small issue instead of the bigger one presented there: the fact they are tearing up New York instead of military installations, the District of Columbia, or something of real military value. I do apologize for getting their motivation wrong; clearly they have a lot more character because their goal is to get a thing to take over more things.

When part of your argument is that they weren't fleshed out enough, you getting their fundamental reason for being there completely wrong is a rather salient point. But ok, you want to know why they didn't attack military installations? First off, the portal was opened above New York, which actually makes a degree of sense in and of itself because it:
A) Is quite lightly defended making it a very good place to attack and establish a foot hold on Earth so they can defend the portal.
B) Is a highly populated city filled with civilians limiting the ability of the military to actually fight back. Yes, they were willing to resort to nuking it, but a portal powered by a device with a self-sustaining impermeable force field around it probably isn't going to be destroyed or closed by said nuke, and;
C) The Avengers were the biggest threat to them by far. Even Iron Man could barely damage one of the flying serpent creatures and to do it he had to fly inside of it. And there's no telling how many forces they had waiting to pour through. We see a large ship and a lot of soldiers, but they could have had far more to call on if needed. The military would have been outmatched in a straight up fight, SHIELD were all but crippled, and the only real threat was a team of superhero's which included a God and the Hulk. Loki knew if they were beaten the Earth would fall. So you ask why they were attacking New York. I ask you why the hell they would attack anything else when the Avengers were right there?


I know the aliens are not the main villain, and that is my problem; they are the only challenge presented in the film. Loki himself is a total pushover at this point, when Thor joins a crew of superheroes because if he cannot beat Thor, what chance does he have against Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Hawkeye, and Black Widow? I would have preferred a Chitauri commander being the big bad as opposed to Loki, a guy out of his depth.

How is Loki out of his depth? Honestly, explain it to me because you really haven't explained it at all. So Thor beating Loki the first time around means he's somehow an idiot out of his depth? Are you forgetting the part where he easily had Thor exiled and became the King of Asgard because he's a sneaky bastard? Or almost single handedly putting himself in a position to infiltrate SHIELD, lead his mind controlled soldiers there, almost bring the thing crashing out of the sky, then lead an army to destroy a solid chunk of New York. Failing doesn't mean he's inept or out of his depth. If anything he's usually thinking several steps ahead of the hero's and is quite adept at getting them to make the moves he wants them to make.


In a geek's world, in a place where we care about cameos of unnamed villains, we know these things matter. We know the aliens are going to be back and we know Thanos is going to wipe the floor, ceiling, and entire space-time continuum with the Avengers. I unfortunately know a lot about comics I do not read, but I do not know how informed the rest of the non-comic book world is, so all they get is that the Chitauri are bastards and there is a bigger bad in the shadows. That clearly is not enough for anyone who is just going to watch one film.

Yes, because every single one of the people who saw it and enjoyed it are comic book fans and everyone else hated it because they didn't know who Thanos was or that the Chitauri will undoubtedly be back. I'm not sure where you get this idea, but it's clearly not entirely accurate to say the least. People don't really need to know who they are as well as comic book fans to understand the movie and enjoy it as you seem to be arguing.


I am glad it is understood that this film alone is not enough, and that this franchise is about making you want or need to see the other films to get the full import. The problem here, for me, is that clearly sucks balls.

You might want to tell that to George Lucas, Peter Jackson, and anyone else who's ever been involved in a movie series where the story spanned more than one movie. I'm sure those guys would love to know how much their series sucked and why everyone hated them.


I like movies that stand by themselves and are well-contained. I do not want to be told by anyone that I need to see the film before this or after this to get what is going on. If I wanted to do that, I would watch one big movie that had everything in it. I do not want to have to suffer another The Matrix: Reloaded and Revolutions issue; gods, how those two films depended on each other. The Avengers should have had a subtitle, something like The Preface. Ugh.

If you don't want to see these movies because they have interconnecting stories between several characters then the simple solution is to not go see them. Just because you don't like that doesn't mean that it's bad or that the stories have been atrociously handled though. In fact, given the enormous feat it was to even attempt making all of these movies and pulling them together into an Avengers movie while having everything feel cohesive and work together was impressive. The fact that they actually succeeded in making several very enjoyable movies is damn near miraculous. So it's not your thing. Ok. Let's move on.


My response on the Loki issue: again, crap main villain. That he is the major focus in The Avengers is a terrible, horrible, abhorrent idea.

Except that you're pretty alone on this one. Most people consider him one of the better parts of the movie because he was actually handled quite well and Hiddleston did a fantastic job playing the role.


I did sort of space it out, I admit. However, having a new enemy appear suddenly at the end is still super weak.

Except they didn't. Honestly, I might take your arguments a bit more seriously if it didn't seem like half of them are based on not paying attention to the film.


but it really is used as an excuse to avoid a good climatic battle with the film's bad guy, Loki. They simply could not have one done well, apparently, because what they had was the Hulk slam Loki around like a ragdoll.

I don't get why you even wanted a big fight between Loki and all of the Avengers. Even though it was clearly established that in a direct confrontation he could beat most of them, and even go toe to toe with Thor for a bit, he isn't a brawler. Putting him in a direct fight with these characters would require throwing out every bit of characterization they had already established in Thor and early on in Avengers. He is not someone who engages in a direct fight unless it either serves some unrevealed plan he has cooking in the background, or he's absolutely forced to. He is a trickster God in every sense and he would much rather pull strings than simply punch the puppets in the face. Having him fight them directly would be completely out of character for him and would be terrible writing because of it.


2. The early fighting between the heroes (thinking of Iron Man and Thor here) was embarrassingly fabricated. I would have liked some sign that Loki was magically causing it somehow (as I first assumed because it made no sense otherwise). I chalked this up to the movie being too fast and cramped to be developed properly.

While he didn't really have a hand in that (and let's be honest, he didn't have to when you have a hot headed God like Thor and Stark who only thinks he's a God), it was at least heavily implied that he was using his staff to manipulate them into turning on one another in the Helicarrier. Not really a big surprise though when it looked to be powered by the Mind Infinity Gem.

[Madonna]

Let me call it quits here because this is too much when it comes to people's opinions. My apologies if my explanations were not sufficient for you.

[CimminyCricket]

Thor is quite possibly the second physically strongest character in Marvel. He is not just the god of Thunder, but also of strength and he has access to the Odin Force. That put him on par to fight Captain Marvel of the DC Universe (who is a near physical match for Superman). He's pretty effing strong. The Savage Hulk (i.e. the Worldbreaker from Planet Hulk) is a totally different beast from the regular Hulk we've seen in the movies and most of the comics.

[ScottyRedXIII]

I like this film, I didn'T like this film.
CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? :'(

[Depression Moon]

I went to go see it again. It wasn't as good as it was the first time, but I did notice stuff I didn;t notice before like the arc reactor wasn't showing through Tony's shirt in one scene.

Everyone laughed at the same moments again.