Curiosity about Irvine

[Future Esthar]

We know Squall knows Zell, Seifer and Quistis at the beggining of the game.
They know Selphie´s name because she told them.
They know Rinoa´s name because she told Squall and he told the others.

But no one told their names to Irvine.
And I don´t think he have access to their contract paper.Only Squall had.
Yet he knows their names right on their train.

This is another indication that Irvine remembers them from the orphanage.

[Crop]

I thought it was already well known that he remembered them from the orphanage, how is this new information?

[TheSpoonyBard]

He could see everyone's names on the menu screen when he was choosing the parties before leaving G-Garden.

[ChickenHeart]

I thought it was already well known that he remembered them from the orphanage, how is this new information?

This

[Serapy]

I thought it was already well known that he remembered them from the orphanage, how is this new information?

This

The point is... he knew them right away when they first met. Otherwise, he would of have asked for thier names, or them telling him thier names.

[MJN SEIFER]

Everyone says that there a no hints to the orphanage scene, but there are - so this could be one of them.

[Jessweeee♪]

Even if he didn't remember any of the names, surely he would have been told about his teammates before his mission?

[blackmage_nuke]

Yes couldve been some kind of briefing. Its an interesting hint to the fact that he knows them all but i wouldnt call it a 'curiosity' as theres nothing to ponder.

[Vermachtnis]

Or he just greets everybody with those names in hopes that he meets his long lost buddies.

[ChickenHeart]

Yeah he didn't use GF before hand so all his memories are intact, which is why he didn't want to shoot poor old edea :) But he might of been told their names when he was decideing on the party

[Goldenboko]

Everyone says that there a no hints to the orphanage scene, but there are - so this could be one of them.

This is such an irrelevant hint that it doesn't hit you until long after that fact, usually one or two playthrough's later.

A good plot twist needs progression, you should be confused as hell at some point before the twist, not after it. The Metal Gear Solid Series pretty clearly shows how to make excellent plot twists that aren't lame or ill-contrived like the orphanage twist is. Plot twists in MGS help shape where the plot is headed and make sense of previously confusing situations such as you being the carrier of the FoxDie Virus, which triggered heart attacks in both the DARPA Chief and ArmsTech president. That twist takes past events, two completely unrelated, confusing heart attacks, and connects them, REMOVING holes from the plot and making the game MAKE SENSE. The Orphanage twist is a bad attempt at giving each character backstory, instead of, you know, actually giving them backstory.

[MJN SEIFER]

Everyone says that there a no hints to the orphanage scene, but there are - so this could be one of them.

This is such an irrelevant hint that it doesn't hit you until long after that fact, usually one or two playthrough's later.

A good plot twist needs progression, you should be confused as hell at some point before the twist, not after it. The Metal Gear Solid Series pretty clearly shows how to make excellent plot twists that aren't lame or ill-contrived like the orphanage twist is. Plot twists in MGS help shape where the plot is headed and make sense of previously confusing situations such as you being the carrier of the FoxDie Virus, which triggered heart attacks in both the DARPA Chief and ArmsTech president. That twist takes past events, two completely unrelated, confusing heart attacks, and connects them, REMOVING holes from the plot and making the game MAKE SENSE. The Orphanage twist is a bad attempt at giving each character backstory, instead of, you know, actually giving them backstory.

That's the whole point Goldenboko! It would have been too easy to say, have the characters say things like "Oh, wait have I seen you before?/No, I don't think so..." and then at the orphanage "Wow! so i really DID see you before!", but FFVIII didn't, they did something far more clever.

They designed foreshadowing so subtle you don't even know it is forehsadowing, until you've completed the game, then you replay the game and you see it "Oh, so THAT'S why Irvine wouldn't shoot Edea!" "Oh, so THAT'S how Squall knew Edea's name", "Oh so THAT'S how Irvive, could second guess Selphie's reactions". It is a brilliant form of foreshadowing because it looks weird when you first play it, but makes perfect sense when you see it again - it is exactly like Cloud's flashback in FFVII when you first see Cloud's version, you except it as reality, but when you see the truth you put all the pieces together, and on your next playtrhough it's basically "Ok, that didn't happen, that didn't happen, that DID happen, that SORT OF HAPPENED".

Also, no offence, but your MGS example further helps prove my point. I'm sure when you first play this game, you are meant to beleive that those are just run-of-the-mill heart attacks, that just happend to kill these guys, right? When I saw the orphanage scene, so many things I had wondered about the FFVIII world made perfect sense.

[Future Esthar]

If Irvine was introduced beforehand the game would hint about it.It doesn´t.

Now to the real purpose of this thread:

There is something really fishy about this situation.
Let´s see if you can guess it.

What happens on the train to Deling City that don´t makes sense?

[blackmage_nuke]

You might as well just tell us:roll2

Was it something to do with how he chose the parties?

[Christmas]

Why dun you just compile and summarize all your theories into one thread instead? :bigsmile:

This way people will get a clearer picture of what is happening. :bigsmile:

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/apoc-drill.gif

[Future Esthar]

Too much information for people.
It´s best for them to look at each theory and starting making the connections.
Like on a big puzzle.

Hint:Something related to Rinoa.

[Karifean]

He knows her name?

[Serapy]

What's fishy is that Irvine didn't attempt on asking Rinoa out instead of Selphie on that train. It's obvious that Rinoa is more beautiful than Selphie. So, why didn't he?

I have 2 reasons:

1) Irvine knew that Rinoa was already taken. Destiny, my friends.
2) Irvine feared sorceresses, since what happened at the orphanage back then. So, that's why he didn't ask Rinoa out.

[Future Esthar]

Exactly Karifean

[Draniei]

Shouldn't he know her name? I mean, they were all at the orphanage.

[ChickenHeart]

By the way he did try to flirt with Rinoa, Quistis interupted him. And i think Irvine always liked Selphie more than the rest of the gang , so when he saw her...BAM...love? =)

[MJN SEIFER]

Shouldn't he know her name? I mean, they were all at the orphanage.

Who's name? He should know all names except Rinoa's as she was never there (putting the R=E theory aside for now).

I've just thought; maybe Irvine was told who he'd be assigned too, but when he heard their names, that was when he realized who they were. I mean think about it, when you hear one name from your childhood, you can pass it off as a possible coincidence. However, when you hear a whole group of names together you just know it has to be the same people,

Now, following that up, Irvine probably expects to be introduced to the team as well (which he is), so he assumes that they all remember him too - notice how casual he is around them, like he already knows them, and then there's the scene on the train, he goes to Selphie first becuase he knows her, and has tried flirting with her as a child. When she brushes him off, it also becomes clear that she doesn't recognize him either (there's no comment like "you're still the same!") so Irvine may be thinking "Oh... I guess I was wrong - these people AREN'T my friends from the orphanage..." He seams like he is about to hit on Rinoa, but he is interupted to quick. Irvine is a born flirt, but he may also be doing this to quickly forget getting his hopes up too soon, but when he's stopped he just sulks for a bit. I genuinly think that he was just dissapointed that he hadn't gotten the reuinion he expected, but rather than be sad they don't recognize him, I think that he thinks that he's mistaken them for his friends and now he realizes that they're just people with the same names.

I think when Edea appears on the scene, Irvine puts two and two together. Or at least takes the first step.

[ChickenHeart]

^^^
Now that's something i believe

[Crop]

Shouldn't he know her name? I mean, they were all at the orphanage.

Who's name? He should know all names except Rinoa's as she was never there (putting the R=E theory aside for now).

I've just thought; maybe Irvine was told who he'd be assigned too, but when he heard their names, that was when he realized who they were. I mean think about it, when you hear one name from your childhood, you can pass it off as a possible coincidence. However, when you hear a whole group of names together you just know it has to be the same people,

Now, following that up, Irvine probably expects to be introduced to the team as well (which he is), so he assumes that they all remember him too - notice how casual he is around them, like he already knows them, and then there's the scene on the train, he goes to Selphie first becuase he knows her, and has tried flirting with her as a child. When she brushes him off, it also becomes clear that she doesn't recognize him either (there's no comment like "you're still the same!") so Irvine may be thinking "Oh... I guess I was wrong - these people AREN'T my friends from the orphanage..." He seams like he is about to hit on Rinoa, but he is interupted to quick. Irvine is a born flirt, but he may also be doing this to quickly forget getting his hopes up too soon, but when he's stopped he just sulks for a bit. I genuinly think that he was just dissapointed that he hadn't gotten the reuinion he expected, but rather than be sad they don't recognize him, I think that he thinks that he's mistaken them for his friends and now he realizes that they're just people with the same names.

I think when Edea appears on the scene, Irvine puts two and two together. Or at least takes the first step.

That is probably the most sensible theory to something that isn't fully explained in the game that I've seen on this forum in months.
It makes sense, I'm inclined to believe it.

[The Space Pope]

I have a theory and it's called shoddy writing.

[Laddy]

I actually think FE is on to something, actually. ;)

[MJN SEIFER]

I have a theory and it's called shoddy writing.

Patients is a virgin. the article will be done one day.

[The Space Pope]

If a game doesn't explain something, coming up with theories, no matter how plausible, doesn't make them fact.

[MJN SEIFER]

Be that as it may, it may help us understand them better. I have reasons to believe that it is the exact opposite of shody writing, but the fact that you need to look at exactly the right place makes allthe difference.

[The Space Pope]

Yeah, I understand that it's fun and interesting to fill in the blanks with games such as these, but I'd just rather take a game's story at face value.

But again, that's just me.

[Depression Moon]

Why dun you just compile and summarize all your theories into one thread instead? :bigsmile:

This way people will get a clearer picture of what is happening. :bigsmile:

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/apoc-drill.gif


Oh cool Apocalypse nobody messes with Apocalypse.

[Iceglow]

Martine presents Gabaldia Garden's best Sniper student. It would be logical (oh wait not that word again I tend to forget these people don't do logic) that Martine when calling over Irvine Kinneas to present him to the Squad led by Squall would call him by name rather than by "OI SNIPER STUDENT!"

[Jiro]

Patients is a virgin. the article will be done one day.

I have only heard that said by one other person ever. You gotta be Kelvin. xD


^^^
Now that's something i believe

Agreed.

[JodoBaggins]

MJN seifer that gave me chills..I didnt even think about how he acted on the train to deiling city :/

[aquatius]

"Oh, so THAT'S why Irvine wouldn't shoot Edea!"
I can't believe that I didn't actually realise this until now. That adds a whole other level to an otherwise vapid plot :3