The Black Sheeps

[Levian]

So who's the black sheep of all the games, what characters would we be better off never having stuffed into our parties to begin with?

1. -
2. -
3. -
4. Edge
5. Krile, if anyone. Maybe the Bard Job. :D
6. Setzer
7. Vincent
8. Irvine
9. Amarant
10. Kimahri
12. Basch
13. Hope, if anyone. They're all quite cool.

Looks like I'm not a fan of latecomers. :D

[Meat Puppet]

Quistis or whatever her name is

EDIT: Hmm maybe everyone in 8 except for Selphie or whatever her name is

[blackmage_nuke]

People are going to hate me but i really couldve done without Quina

[VeloZer0]

People are going to hate me but i really couldve done without Quina
Good lord I had no idea what he/it added to the game.

FF4 - Edge. Like Yang, but worse!
FF6 - Umaro/Gau. I personaly don't like characters I can't control
FF7 - Cait Sith
FF9 - Quina!!! Amarant, though useful, was also quite tacked on
FF10 - Everyone but Yuna, Tidus and Auron was completely irrelevant.
FF12 - Penello. I thought Vaan was just an out of place tag along, and she was his tag along.
FF13 - Everyone except Lightning & Fang. None of them looked like they could even come close to keeping up.

[Wolf Kanno]

FFI - Thief, yes he becomes a ninja later but that doesn't change the fact the Thief is a pretty crappy class on its own and mostly dead weight for most of the game.

FFII - Leila, not relevant to the story beyond giving the party a boat, she could have easily been just a simple boss like the pirate from FFI.

FFIII - Evoker, there is a very good reason why this class never shows up again...

FFIV - FuSoYa and Cid, though relevant to the story (the whole cast is actually) these two are pretty lousy party members. Tellah would be here too if it wasn't the fact he's crappy for story purposes.

FFV - Krile, I like Galuf better and as one member pointed out to me, she really is a little too perfect.

FFVI - I love all the cast but I would have to say Gau, Umaro, Mog, and Gogo because none of them are relevant to the plot.

To Levian: How dare you choose my fave character in VI :mad:

FFVII - Yuffie and Red XIII, once again , mostly irrelevant to the plot though I would add to the fact that Yuffie is excruciatingly annoying and Red XIII is actually a fairly boring character once the novelty of being a talking cat wears off.

FFVIII - Selphie and Quistis, Selphie is the obligatory "hyper active, sugar addict girl character" who is just as annoying as ever and never has much growth as a character. Quistis starts the plot relevant but once Squall becomes a SeeD she not only loses most of her relevance in the story, she also starts becoming retarded (don't think I don't remember the whole incident in Galbadia where you came damn near close to compromising the mission cause you hurt Rinoa's feelings) though I would argue most of the cast falls into this problem as most appear to play a minor role and then never grow as characters again except for Squall.

FFIX - Quina is a bit obvious, despite the fact I love her/him/it cause I do feel Quina is entertaining and fun. Amarant is kind of a non-entity fulfilling the role of "dark brooding badass" but he's mostly irrelevant. Garnet and Eiko, I have a problem with these two. Garnet is important as a plot device but the more I think about it the more I feel it would have worked better if she was only a temp character cause she's pretty much a sub-par character in the cast thanks to the story line screwing her out of most of her useful abilites and making Eiko the competent White Mage. On the other hand, we have Eiko who isn't really relevant to the plot as a character either (she's the token hyper active girl character) despite being fairly useful as a battle party member. I just feel we could have done better if we stuck to one and made the other a NPC.

FFX - Though it would be easy to say most of the cast, I will mostly say Kimarhi cause he's the glaring example of black sheep here. The other characters might have weak justifications but Kimarhi really has nothing. He never talks so he gets little character growth and despite his physical stature he's actually a terrible character in a game where niches are more important than versatility. Throw in the fact he's the worst Dragoon and Blue Mage in the series thanks to them being limited to his Limit Breaks and we have ourselves the most pointless character in the game if not the series.

FFXII - Obviously Vaan cause his plots resolved a few hours in and people mistake his role as "errand boy" for being the main character. He's a fine example of executive meddling. At least Penelo has a bit more usefulness cause of Larsa... Fran also falls in here cause she's basically Balthier's partner and nothing else. She gets an intriguing backstory that is sadly downplayed in the main narrative.

FFXIII - Hope and Fang, Hope is terribly annoying for most of the game til he gets one moment of awesomness in Chapter 7 then proceeds to be Mr. Positive for the rest of the game where he is equally annoying, he exists to add more angst to a story that is overflowing with angst. I feel the Director/Writer must have loved Hope the most cause not only does he get more screentime than most of the relevant cast, but he's actually the best party member forcing most people to use him. Fang is pretty much the most underdeveloped characters in the cast besides the villains. Besides being overprotective of Vanille and a hot babe, what else is there to her character?.... *crickets*.... exactly. She gets an 11th hour story scene during the ending but by then its too late. Fang is introduced far too late in the plot. I would also probably throw in Lightning as well cause she really doesn't develop much as a character. She's a total bitch for the first half of the game and Hope contaminates her and makes her little character growth turn into a mother hen, but beyond that she really doesn't do anything else for the plot. Part of this is because Lightning is basically the token "brooding badass" but seriously, despite Serah being her sister all her development as a character ends in Chapter 5/7 and then she proceeds to spend the rest of the game acting out as leader occasionally just to tell the player she's still there.

[Forsaken Lover]

You're a terrible person WK.
Just thought you'd ought to know. :tongue:

Though I agree about Kimahri.

But Fran is definitely the black sheep of FFXII. Vaan and Penelo had a purpose behind one single sequence. Fran could be dropped from teh game and all we'd be out is one not very attractive piece of fetish fuel.

[Levian]

To Levian: How dare you choose my fave character in VI :mad:


Your fave didn't contribute anything to the plot besides getting you an airship and looking like a leper in his menu picture. :D

[Slothy]

FF4 - Edge. Like Yang, but worse!

What? Back in the day of the item duplication glitch he was pretty much one of the most powerful characters in the game. And even without it, Throw was deadly. Much more awesome than an underpowered Kick or a move that took two turns to do twice the normal attack damage. Now Yang was definitely more awesome as a character, but Edge still wasn't bad in that respect either.


FFIV - FuSoYa and Cid, though relevant to the story (the whole cast is actually) these two are pretty lousy party members. Tellah would be here too if it wasn't the fact he's crappy for story purposes.

FFV - Krile, I like Galuf better and as one member pointed out to me, she really is a little too perfect.

FFVI - I love all the cast but I would have to say Gau, Umaro, Mog, and Gogo because none of them are relevant to the plot.

To Levian: How dare you choose my fave character in VI

FFVII - Yuffie and Red XIII, once again , mostly irrelevant to the plot though I would add to the fact that Yuffie is excruciatingly annoying and Red XIII is actually a fairly boring character once the novelty of being a talking cat wears off.

FFVIII - Selphie and Quistis, Selphie is the obligatory "hyper active, sugar addict girl character" who is just as annoying as ever and never has much growth as a character. Quistis starts the plot relevant but once Squall becomes a SeeD she not only loses most of her relevance in the story, she also starts becoming retarded (don't think I don't remember the whole incident in Galbadia where you came damn near close to compromising the mission cause you hurt Rinoa's feelings) though I would argue most of the cast falls into this problem as most appear to play a minor role and then never grow as characters again except for Squall.

FFIX - Quina is a bit obvious, despite the fact I love her/him/it cause I do feel Quina is entertaining and fun. Amarant is kind of a non-entity fulfilling the role of "dark brooding badass" but he's mostly irrelevant. Garnet and Eiko, I have a problem with these two. Garnet is important as a plot device but the more I think about it the more I feel it would have worked better if she was only a temp character cause she's pretty much a sub-par character in the cast thanks to the story line screwing her out of most of her useful abilites and making Eiko the competent White Mage. On the other hand, we have Eiko who isn't really relevant to the plot as a character either (she's the token hyper active girl character) despite being fairly useful as a battle party member. I just feel we could have done better if we stuck to one and made the other a NPC.

FFX - Though it would be easy to say most of the cast, I will mostly say Kimarhi cause he's the glaring example of black sheep here. The other characters might have weak justifications but Kimarhi really has nothing. He never talks so he gets little character growth and despite his physical stature he's actually a terrible character in a game where niches are more important than versatility. Throw in the fact he's the worst Dragoon and Blue Mage in the series thanks to them being limited to his Limit Breaks and we have ourselves the most pointless character in the game if not the series.

FFXIII - Hope and Fang, Hope is terribly annoying for most of the game til he gets one moment of awesomness in Chapter 7 then proceeds to be Mr. Positive for the rest of the game where he is equally annoying, he exists to add more angst to a story that is overflowing with angst. I feel the Director/Writer must have loved Hope the most cause not only does he get more screentime than most of the relevant cast, but he's actually the best party member forcing most people to use him. Fang is pretty much the most underdeveloped characters in the cast besides the villains. Besides being overprotective of Vanille and a hot babe, what else is there to her character?.... *crickets*.... exactly. She gets an 11th hour story scene during the ending but by then its too late. Fang is introduced far too late in the plot. I would also probably throw in Lightning as well cause she really doesn't develop much as a character. She's a total bitch for the first half of the game and Hope contaminates her and makes her little character growth turn into a mother hen, but beyond that she really doesn't do anything else for the plot. Part of this is because Lightning is basically the token "brooding badass" but seriously, despite Serah being her sister all her development as a character ends in Chapter 5/7 and then she proceeds to spend the rest of the game acting out as leader occasionally just to tell the player she's still there.

I agree with pretty much all of this except for FFXIII. I'd list every damn character in FFXIII with the possible exception of Sazh for being the only character who was even slightly interesting and not completely retarded. I hated every single other character in that game. I didn't like their personalities, their terrible (and often non-existent) development, and they added nothing worthwhile to a game that already didn't have much going for it.

[Forsaken Lover]

How can you criticize Selphie for having no real character development when none of the cast had any except Squall and his arm candy?

[Wolf Kanno]

Cause she is both pointless and annoying... The other characters are at least important for one good moment in the plot.

Levian: You are wrong, he gave you two airships and he's a badass party member. Not to mention his dialogue is just great and he's associated with some of the best music in the game. :p

[Christmas]

So who's the black sheep of all the games, what characters would we be better off never having stuffed into our parties to begin with?

10. Kimahri


Looks like I'm not a fan of latecomers. :D

Because he isn't a human? Racism!? :party:

[reinward]

VII- either Red XIII or Vincent. i actually thought cait sith was cool. he had his important moments in the plot and i loved when you meet him he's all like "I dont care what you you say im coming with you!" and forces his way into the party lol, although i question cloud's judgement for letting a moogle cat thing just join his party just so he can see if his prediction comes true lol.

VIII- Irvine or Quistis. Both are just boring

IX- I liked pretty much this entire cast, but i'll go with Amarant because he was pretty pointless even though i still thought he was cool

X-Kimarhi, do i even need a reason? X had the best cast of all the games IMO excluding Kimarhi

XII- Vaan. Like someone above already mentioned, Penelo at least had that thing with Larsa goin on

XIII- i honestly hated the whole cast except for Snow, but Im gonna haffta say Fang. I just didnt like her, dont even know why lol

[Vermachtnis]

Why does Wolfo find the only good characters in VII and VIII annoying?

II - Gordon, coward should have just stayed in the kitchen.
VI - Umaro, for a yeti, he's kind of lame and whipped
VII - Vincent, don't like him. Usually leave him in the coffin to rot.
VIII - Irvine, he's dumb.
IX - Amarant, he's dumb and blue.
X - Kimahri, he's dumb, blue, and a reverse furry for Yuna.
XII - Basch, he's like totally old. Like 30 or something.

[blackmage_nuke]

WHy is everyone hating on Kimahri, I liked him :(

He was way more devoted to his role as strong silent type than Auron.

[Wolf Kanno]

Why does Wolfo find the only good characters in VII and VIII annoying?

II - Gordon, coward should have just stayed in the kitchen.
VI - Umaro, for a yeti, he's kind of lame and whipped
VII - Vincent, don't like him. Usually leave him in the coffin to rot.
VIII - Irvine, he's dumb.
IX - Amarant, he's dumb and blue.
X - Kimahri, he's dumb, blue, and a reverse furry for Yuna.
XII - Basch, he's like totally old. Like 30 or something.

Says the guy who hates one of the best characters in XII, actually if my choices represent the best characters in VII and VIII it only shows why I never card for either cast. :p You really seem to hate most of the serious characters it seems.

As for Kimarhi blackmage_nuke, he has the same problem as Red XIII. Once you get over the novelty of him being a talking blue cat man, he's incredibly boring as a character and most of his plot feels like an afterthought at best.

[Vermachtnis]

Why does Wolfo find the only good characters in VII and VIII annoying?

II - Gordon, coward should have just stayed in the kitchen.
VI - Umaro, for a yeti, he's kind of lame and whipped
VII - Vincent, don't like him. Usually leave him in the coffin to rot.
VIII - Irvine, he's dumb.
IX - Amarant, he's dumb and blue.
X - Kimahri, he's dumb, blue, and a reverse furry for Yuna.
XII - Basch, he's like totally old. Like 30 or something.

Says the guy who hates one of the best characters in XII, actually if my choices represent the best characters in VII and VIII it only shows why I never card for either cast. :p You really seem to hate most of the serious characters it seems.


Actually I like Basch, I just didn't want to say Penelo since I used her. Maybe I should have said Fran. Oh well hindsight is 20/20.

[razorrozar7]

IV: FuSoYa. He could have fulfilled his purpose without being in the party.
VII: I love Yuffie and Vincent, but they're optional... so they have no plot value at all.
X: Kimahri. I personally like what little character development he gets, but there's just not enough of it. Add to this that, as was said above, he's a versatile character in a game where versatility has no value whatsoever, and you get Epic Fail.
XII: As with VII, I love these two as party members, but Vaan and Penelo expire as soon as you get your party complete, if not sooner. Though Revenant Wings redeemed them somewhat.
XIII: Hope. *magically inserts self into FFXIII*

Me: (slaps Hope upside the head)
Hope: OWW!!! WHY!!!?!
Me: You dummy! Snow didn't KILL Nora! Snow was trying to SAVE Nora and everyone else! Therefore your whole reason for existence as a PC is invalid!
Hope: OMG! THE CLEAR LIGHT OF TRUTH! IT BURNS!

...Anyway. Those are my picks.

[Tokimadoushi]

XIII - I agree that Fang was introduced way too late in the plot to be fully developed...And having to deal with Hope's idiotic revenge plot was excruciating, having to endure it for well over 10 hours until Lightning finally tells him the simple fact that Snow didn't purposefully kill his mother. .

XII - Fran...utterly pointless except being eye candy for teenage boys getting into beastiality.

X - Lulu. For the same reason as Fran. There was not much else to her except BOOBS.

IX - Quina. As much as he/she made me laugh with his/her simple sentiments ("World only have two things: things you can eat and things you no can eat" and "I do what I want! You have problem?") there really wasn't much point to him/her at all.

VIII - Irvine. He could've just left the party after his dismal failure in Deling City and spared me his put-on attempt at cowboy charm. He had absolutely no purpose in the story besides being the one to inform the party they all grew up together. Hooking up with Selphie made him even worse.

VII - Vincent, but him being a secret character kind of justifies his minimal plot involvement or character development. So I am taking Cait Sith as he could've easily been a temporary character until being crushed by Temple of the Ancients.The game attempted to make the scene so heart-wrenching and sad as he says goodbye but its all ruined when he comes bouncing along proclaiming "Hi!! I'm Cait Sith number 2!!" while Cloud is beating the living stuffing out of Aerith.. Utterly pointless, both battle and story-wise.

VI - Umaro, Mog, Gogo, Gau...in fact most of the late additions to the cast felt like fillers to me.

V - I agree Krile was annoying but someone had to replace Galuf I suppose.

IV - Edward. Seriously. He is as wimpy in battle as he is outside of it...an utterly useless, pointless character except for one scene defeating the dark elf.

II - Ricard. Not to say that any of the characters in II had burgeoning personalities cracking my screen with emotion but he was just Bland. Like dry bread. Like...cereal without milk. Like........
Okay I'll stop now. :eep:

[VeloZer0]

II - Ricard. Not to say that any of the characters in II had burgeoning personalities cracking my screen with emotion but he was just Bland. Like dry bread. Like...cereal without milk. Like........
Okay I'll stop now. :eep:
Not exactly on topic, but I'm sitting here eating cereal without milk as I read your post.

[DMKA]

I - Blackbelt

[Jessweeee♪]

I think it's funny that people find Vaan to be one of the least useful party members of FFXII. Comparing his base stats to his level 99 stats shows him to be the most well rounded. Over-all he's the second best party member you can have, just below Ashe.

[Tokimadoushi]

LOLs @ VeloZero :p

[Wolf Kanno]

I think it's funny that people find Vaan to be one of the least useful party members of FFXII. Comparing his base stats to his level 99 stats shows him to be the most well rounded. Over-all he's the second best party member you can have, just below Ashe.

I think it has more to do with his role in the games plot than his overall usefulness in battle. The stat differences in XII are not as terribly robust as games with real class systems so its more like FFV where the party does gravitate towards certain professions but the stats are still close enough that you can make mage oriented characters into competent fighters if you actually wanted to. Vaan is statistically one of the best characters but for many they either find him annoying or irrelevant to the plot. Fran is a bit of a fan fave despite being statistically the worst character in the game, which is why some still choose Vaan over her despite her sad stats.

[Dr. Acula]

FFII: Leila. I liked her, but she really didn't have much to offer. Except a ship.

FFIV: FuSoYa. He just felt like a filler to me.

FFV: Krile, I guess. I didn't mind her, but I liked Galuf better.

FFVI: The usual lot: Gogo, Umaro, Mog and Gau.

FFVII: I didn't think Cait Sith was entirely relevant. Or Yuffie, even though I liked her.

FFVIII: Pervine should have just left after the failed assassination attempt. Quistis didn't really add much to the story either.

FFX: Kimahri.

FFXII: Penelo and Vaan were just tag-alongs, really.