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Jessweeee♪
08-02-2010, 07:58 PM
What do you think of games that take you as long as two or three hours to get into the action? Or games like KHII that have you in a long prologue?

When it's done well I really like it. A good story takes time to tell!

Bunny
08-02-2010, 08:29 PM
As long as the game allows for some semblance of control and isn't a game of "follow the yellow brick road", then I have no problem with it. The reason Final Fantasy XIII wasn't as good as it could have been (aside from being made by Square-Enix) is that the "tutorial" was roughly 20 hours.

Laddy
08-02-2010, 09:40 PM
I liked KHII's Prologue. :(

Return of the King's Prologue is bitching, it gives you action and tutorials. Something like that!

Jessweeee♪
08-02-2010, 09:43 PM
It was really fun replaying KHII's Prologue after 358/2 Days!

Clo
08-02-2010, 10:25 PM
I don't like long intros/prologues. I want to begin playing the game and sort of get at least something about the overall plot within the first five minutes.

Ace Protorney
08-02-2010, 10:36 PM
The reason Final Fantasy XIII wasn't as good as it could have been (aside from being made by Square-Enix) is that the "tutorial" was roughly 20 hours.

Really? Wow, good thing I skipped through that! :D

I personally don't like extra long intros. However if the story has my attention and isn't boring, then I won't mind watching. Sometime I just want to get straight to playing.

Flying Arrow
08-02-2010, 10:39 PM
Long intros are what instruction booklets are/should be for.

MJN SEIFER
08-02-2010, 11:29 PM
Soul Calibur 3's intro would be awsome, if it only had better music. Like in this YouTube vid. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp3vASOMplQ&playnext=1&videos=fzim698UNEs)

Jessweeee♪
08-02-2010, 11:37 PM
The reason Final Fantasy XIII wasn't as good as it could have been (aside from being made by Square-Enix) is that the "tutorial" was roughly 20 hours.

Really? Wow, good thing I skipped through that! :D

I personally don't like extra long intros. However if the story has my attention and isn't boring, then I won't mind watching. Sometime I just want to get straight to playing.

Well if you put it that way the tutorial doesn't end until you're just about at the end of the game. I never really understood why still having new things introduced late in the game was considered a bad thing. It keeps things fresh :confused:

On the other hand, I'd probably want to have these things sooner on a second playthrough.

Jiro
08-03-2010, 12:18 AM
On the other hand, I'd probably want to have these things sooner on a second playthrough.
New Game+

Bunny
08-03-2010, 12:38 AM
Well if you put it that way the tutorial doesn't end until you're just about at the end of the game. I never really understood why still having new things introduced late in the game was considered a bad thing. It keeps things fresh

There is a difference between having things introduced throughout the game and having everything handed to you over the course of several hours. I would have had no problem with having small things introduced to me as the game carried on but Final Fantasy XIII offered absolutely no choices in the matter. I haven't beaten it yet (partly because I can only handle 1 or 2 hours at a time) but I hope it opens up at least a little bit.

Bolivar
08-03-2010, 04:23 AM
I've never really had a hard time with them at all. I know MGS4 is unbelievably heavy, with small 5 second doses of gameplay to keep you posted on the unbelievable cutscene direction. Far Cry 2 was long, didn't have a problem with it. And I noticed that Dragon Quest intros are relatively long depending on the gamer's expectations (suggested a 10 year old play it, he handed it back to me after about 2 minutes...)

Shoeberto
08-03-2010, 12:14 PM
Well if you put it that way the tutorial doesn't end until you're just about at the end of the game. I never really understood why still having new things introduced late in the game was considered a bad thing. It keeps things fresh

There is a difference between having things introduced throughout the game and having everything handed to you over the course of several hours. I would have had no problem with having small things introduced to me as the game carried on but Final Fantasy XIII offered absolutely no choices in the matter. I haven't beaten it yet (partly because I can only handle 1 or 2 hours at a time) but I hope it opens up at least a little bit.
Don't get your hopes up tbh. The only real reasons to finish the game are if you really like the battle system or really want some closure to the story.

Chris
08-03-2010, 04:15 PM
I have nothing against long intros, but tutorials can be excruciating to sit through. Sometimes they are necessary, but I reckon that most people would much rather find out for themselves.

Flying Arrow
08-03-2010, 05:09 PM
^ I agree. I find a lot of games to be a tad too spoon-feedy these days with tutorials and prompts and such. I genuinely think developers are underestimating the capability of the gaming publib to figure things out.

Old Manus
08-03-2010, 05:55 PM
Tutorials should always have their own dedicated section in the game, accessible from the main menu. Or they should at least be skippable. FFX comes to mind, with Rikku's long winded description on how to use the sphere grid at the start of the game. I actually got stuck at that point, not knowing that to continue the story you actually had to talk to her again. I spent about 20 minutes padding about doing everything but talk to her, because I was too scared I would have to sit through that bull:bou::bou::bou::bou: again.

Long intros, on the other hand, never work. MGS3 almost got away with it, but that was by virtue of the gameplay. I still felt like I'd just wasted a few hours of my time when I discovered that the whole virtuous mission was just a James Bond-esque precredit and I had to do it all over again.

And don't get me started on Kingdom Hearts II. Holy mother of God. They managed to create an unholy union of the (totally pointless) long intro, with the rest of the game being not much more exciting at all.

Steve
08-03-2010, 11:54 PM
With the intro/tutorials to games I don't mind if they're long so long as they're necessary. The worst thing that can happen is a long tutorial esque introduction to the game when the tutorial or the introduction aren't really neeeded. I liked how Red Dead done theirs, the introduction really lasts until the end of the first set of missions for Bonnie however it doesn't feel that way even though continuously there is tutorials involved.

Wolf Kanno
08-05-2010, 12:17 AM
I have no problem with long intros if the plot is interesting, I'm less forgiving if I'm not interested in the story. Wild Arms is known for its lengthy intro sections which usually involves playing as all the main characters until the point they all meet together. Though WA1 does have that humorous misfortune of having an intro that feels like an ending the first time you see it. I actually really like KH2's intro from an atmospheric point of view, I'm just terribly disappointed that many of the mind screw elements of the beginning don't carry for the rest of the game.

Tutorials on the other hand, I can't really stand. They were always a bit annoying but lately I feel some games have really made them obnoxious. Mirror's Edge has a terrible tutorial in the beginning but once the kiddy gloves are off, the game flows beautifully. XIII's is pretty terrible lasting for what feels like forever and introducing elements that should have been introduced earlier (weapon upgrade system anyone?). XII's wasn't really any better, and the Disgaea series softens the blow with funny story telling but it doesn't change the fact the first chapter is always really boring and brain dead from a gaming standpoint. FFTA1 did a fairly decent job of a tutorial though.

I usually prefer tutorials that can be skipped and don't interrupt the game. This is why I really miss the Beginner's corner in the FF titles where you could choose to walk into a room and chat with npcs to hear all about the gameplay or just flat out ignore them.

Jessweeee♪
08-05-2010, 12:51 AM
The option to skip tutorials would be great, but I think game developers would benefit by having long tutorials. Imagine how much more they could sell if your grandma who's never played a game in her life could learn :p

Crop
08-05-2010, 01:14 AM
I think an example of a game with an excellent tutorial would be the Tomb Raider games 1-3.
Lara's home is offered from the main menu and is not only a good way to learn (or skip, if you want to get into the action), but it also offers some exciting hidden rooms or little challenges to unlock different sections of the house.

More like that please.

Jessweeee♪
08-05-2010, 01:23 AM
I love Lara's House. Probably my favorite tutorial as well xD

blackmage_nuke
08-05-2010, 01:35 AM
I actually like long intros but like rpg games to give me a little game play so I can tell what kind of battle system it has before it starts the 1 hour run around talking to people watching cutscenes. Im really bad at the tactics/grid battle systems (Like fftactics and Front mission) and dont like to play an hour into it before I find out its one of those games.