Was Kefka always a general/shogun?

[MJN SEIFER]

Kefka was the first to be exposed to Magitek. Obviously no one knew what Magitek could do to someone at the time - it makes no sense, that they'd try their first experiment on someone with a level of importance...

[Elskidor]

Maybe they were confident everything would be fine.

[Wolf Kanno]

Some sources speculate he volunteered while other speculate he was more involved with the Magitech Research than people thought.

Official sources simply say he was the first test subject but sine much of his past is unknown, there is nothing that says he was a General/Court Mage at the time of the experiment. So its possible its because of the experiment he was able to rise through the ranks.

Interesting to note, apparently in the original scenario of the game. The Magitech infusion process was always meant to be a failure that lead to insanity. Celes was suppose to have a side story about her slowly losing her grip on sanity from the process and it was through Locke's love that she was finally able to overcome it. It was dropped from the scenario for unknown reasons, most likely time constraints.

[Vyk]

That would have been -such- a better love theme, than Squall and Rinoa's pitifully awkward attempt

[MJN SEIFER]

Some sources speculate he volunteered while other speculate he was more involved with the Magitech Research than people thought.

Official sources simply say he was the first test subject but sine much of his past is unknown, there is nothing that says he was a General/Court Mage at the time of the experiment. So its possible its because of the experiment he was able to rise through the ranks.

Interesting to note, apparently in the original scenario of the game. The Magitech infusion process was always meant to be a failure that lead to insanity. Celes was suppose to have a side story about her slowly losing her grip on sanity from the process and it was through Locke's love that she was finally able to overcome it. It was dropped from the scenario for unknown reasons, most likely time constraints.

I see thanks for asnwering. hmmm... That Celes storyline could have been interesting.


That would have been -such- a better love theme, than Squall and Rinoa's pitifully awkward attempt

Seriously? Sorry, for me Squall and Rinoa's romance will always be the best. I can actually relate to it, and I totally called it from disk 1. I have a much longer explanation, which I'll get in a sec (if it's still there)

Here we go! I may be accused of going off topic, but I am eventually going to type a full version of my views in a more appropriate manner.


Well, the key differences are that I liked the characters, and you seemingly didn't - so you may not take what I say seriously, but please, hear me out.

Firstly, I didn't find Rinoa annoying - she's one of my favorite characters in FF. I also noticed the chemistry in the relationship between her and Squall early on in the game, even when they are having their (deliberately) childish fights, which is a given sign in fiction (and real life in some cases). And yes, Squall was "silent", but that was because of his background - he'd been let down so many times in life he had given up expecting anything was going to get better.

It may seam like I'm starving for attention here, but I am just trying to help you understand my point - I actually went through a "Squall" like phase when I was younger (before I played FFVIII) - my life wasn't anywhere near as bad as Squall's, but a lot of things where happening, friends where leaving I was just not very good at making friends - I identified with Squall because of this, I have said this before, but he is my favorite FF character.

Squall is "silent", but we know from his thoughts that he does want to be more open, deep down there are many scenes that without these insights that would make Squall seam a much more uncaring person than he actually is.

Squall doesn't just "suddenly" fall in love with Rinoa - it happens gradually, like most Medias with a storyline FFVIII doesn't have a set timeline, so we don't know how much time has past between their first meeting, and time he acts more caring. Further more, he didn't begin to love her when he was in a coma either - it had been developing through out the game. There is definitely passion during the dance scene, He seams generally concerned for her safety when the Igniouns(sp?) have her cornered, just before the battle starts (even though, to me, they really don't look like they are make that much of an attempt to attack her - infact they look somewhat playful :jess:) After the battle Squall is initially shocked by Rinoa's reaction - he says it's because he assumed she was "used to battles", but I think it's because he isn't used to people displaying emotion in front of him. No one, not even Quistis (who is revealed to have had a crush of sorts on Squall in the past) has shown this much in front of him. His demeanor then changes, he reassures Rinoa, that everything is ok and basically tells her to "stay close to [him]" There is a touching moment in the battle coming up where Rinoa states that she's alright if Squall is by her side - After that battle Squall is almost killed, and Rinoa reacts more directly and personally than anyone else (admittedly the only other people present are Irvine, Seifer and Edea, and none of them are going to react!) If you look at Squall during that scene - he seams to be more focused on Rinoa that anyone, or anything happening in that scene.


In disc two - there are some optional scenes of them together. Squall is still learning how to act around people, but the two of them seem to have neutral understanding of how each other are now, Rinoa makes comments on how Squall is "expected" to act a certain way. When there is a ceremony for Squall becoming the leader there is a very romantic scene between him and Rinoa - we see how close they are now becoming, and once again Squall's thoughts are there to help us understand that Squall has the potential to change and Rinoa is helping him do just that. She seams to be pushing him to talk about something, just to see if he will open up, he of course doesn't, but his thoughts show us, that he is simply scared that if he does then it will all be for nothing - nobody stays around Squall. He's not the kind of person to be loved, but why would he care so much about some one, he supposedly doesn't care about.

I also think the infamous orphanage scene (which, I absolutely loved, but I have a whole article in writing as to why) was semi instrumental in getting Squall to open up more, he has time to think about this even in game time, he had lost so much more than he ever realized, and now sees that every one (sans Rinoa) went through a similar time as him when he was younger, I think he felt a bit more assured then. I also think it gave him more strength to open up with Rinoa.

Then the coma does take place - I didn't find his actions a change in character, I saw it coming. I really thought that Squall was falling in love with Rinoa as far back as disc 1 although I think that might have been more "I find her interesting" type of love, at first, but as time went by (remember we don't know the exact timeline) they got closer, and his love for her developed, he just needed to accept that he felt something for her, and get over his fears of losing someone again. You basically have to read between the lines sometimes - this is a shortened version on why I found Squall and Rinoa such a compelling couple, I may right a full article on it one day (it will take a while, so don't expect it to be instant - I do so many projects at once).

Thanks for reading this, I'm sorry if it was long, but it needed to be.

[Elskidor]

That would have been -such- a better love theme, than Squall and Rinoa's pitifully awkward attempt

Seriously? Sorry, for me Squall and Rinoa's romance will always be the best.


I think I'm gonna have to agree with that, but that was half the story and the game built it up from the start. Game shoulda been call Final Fantasy: A Love Story. I have yet to play FF13, so if there's a love story in that game I wouldn't know. If Locke and Celes' story had been worked the way Kanno posted then that could be a game changer, but the two didn't display all that in FF6.

[Vyk]

I'm gonna forgo a rebuttal, 'cause I don't want to de-rail the thread any further, or argue over how lame I think FF8 is in almost every respect. I can't understand why people like it and herald its "love" theme. But I respect that some people "get" something I'm obviously missing. So I'm not gonna try to change anyone's mind. And I guess I'm glad some people managed to enjoy that game. The love story obviously wasn't the only thing I hated about it. But I still can't agree that it was anything beyond laughable. But I'll agree to disagree :)

And yeah, that would have changed FF6. A lot. Probably for the better, hence my original statement. But honestly, I like what Locke and Rachel had. And I appreciated how tragic it was. On my first playthrough of FF6 I actually kinda found Celes to be a little of a home wrecker. Not given to the idea that Locke probably really needed to move on. And I've since given up that line of thought and can appreciate the possibility of those two. Plus I'm not sure Celes was ever made aware that he was in love with someone else. And the game hints a lot that he kinda likes her. And there's no doubt that she likes him. So I can see why people always hoped for those two. Especially with WK's info in mind. That would have been very interesting to experience..

[Wolf Kanno]

Oddly enough, Celes was meant to be a minor character but Kitase really liked her and kept expanding on her character, its probably why the WoR starts with her. She was the co-directors favorite.

[blackmage_nuke]

Actually I think if Celes was mentally unstable the love story wouldve been stronger. Cheezy maybe when she overcomes her condition with love, but stronger.

Except she'd probably snap when she found out Locke spent the year looking for a cure for his dead girlfriend instead of looking for Celes

[Bolivar]

Back to the original question, isn't it stated that Leo was the only general who didn't undergo the magik infusion process? Maybe one thing is they had test subjects and then did it for the generals?

[Wolf Kanno]

Its clearly stated Kefka was one of the original test subjects but your suggestion does add weight to the idea that Kefka became a General/Court Mage after the procedure as opposed to testing it on a General.

Still, it should be noted most of the Imperial soldiers in Vector actually use magic so there may be a core unit that are Magitech Knights, while normal soldiers use Magitech vehicles like the Magitech Armor and Flying Armor. I'm sure there would probably be many test subjects but its a shame we don't learn of their fates or even whither they actually existed. That's just the problem with 16-bit games though.

[Elskidor]

I'm sure there would probably be many test subjects but its a shame we don't learn of their fates or even whither they actually existed. That's just the problem with 16-bit games though.
I'm still hoping the get around to remaking this game in the next 5 years or so. Be great for a big console for it's 20th year anniversary, and maybe they can answer a few of these lingering questions. Even add the Celes/Locke story as stated above.

[VeloZer0]

That's just the problem with 16-bit games though.
I agree. We need a few prequels and spinoffs to elaborate further :p

After the compilation there are a lot of questions like this I'm fine not knowing.

[Wolf Kanno]

I never said we needed a sequel or spin-off :p

I'm fine leaving it to my imagination to be fair, instead of SE trying to wipe the mystery out of the gaem by trying to explain everything for better or for worse. The closest I would except from SE would be a source book like the Ultimania but then again since it would be like VII's (written years after the games development) I would have a hard time accepting any major revelations as actual fact.

[Wolfen]

They could always expand on it in the remake.

[MJN SEIFER]

I think the reason they didn't do the Celes thing (all though the evidence was there), is because they already did it with Terra - sort of. It's not the same thing, but they had the thing where she becomes an esper, and loses control of herself, but is saved by "love" albeit a different type.

[Wolf Kanno]

Actually a lot of the elements about Celes' character were transferred over (and also partially dropped) in VII. The whole sanity /experiment thing is not a huge stretch from what happened to Cloud though it was another factor that led to his sanity being snapped. Yet in the early stages of VII's development, the SOLDIER program was suppose to carry the whole "leads to insanity" sub-plot which was suppose to explain why Sephiroth snapped but then they changed what Jenova was suppose to be.

Celes was actually meant to be a spy who eventually changed her mind as she traveled with the party but it was removed and later used for Cait Sith in VII.

[Roogle]

Am I the only one that finds that a lot of the dropped plot points from various games are more interesting than the finished product? I find that we are constantly referencing information found in the Ultimania guides or developer interviews that likely should have, rather than could have, been used in the game.

[MJN SEIFER]

Actually a lot of the elements about Celes' character were transferred over (and also partially dropped) in VII. The whole sanity /experiment thing is not a huge stretch from what happened to Cloud though it was another factor that led to his sanity being snapped. Yet in the early stages of VII's development, the SOLDIER program was suppose to carry the whole "leads to insanity" sub-plot which was suppose to explain why Sephiroth snapped but then they changed what Jenova was suppose to be.

She actually was meant to be a spy who eventually changed her mind as she traveled with the party but it was removed and later used for Cait Sith in VII.

At least she got replaced with a great character (seriously, Cait is cool - I love "Slots"). And didn't they explain Sephiroth? I thought they did.

[Wolf Kanno]

They did explain Sephy but he was very different in the early stages of his development as was Jenova and the SOLDIER program. In fact I felt most of the dropped elements from FFVII found their way into Parasite Eve.

[MJN SEIFER]

They did explain Sephy but he was very different in the early stages of his development as was Jenova and the SOLDIER program. .

I see. Kind of makes sense.


Am I the only one that finds that a lot of the dropped plot points from various games are more interesting than the finished product? I find that we are constantly referencing information found in the Ultimania guides or developer interviews that likely should have, rather than could have, been used in the game.

I've not read the Ultimania guides, but in previous posts I have asked what was in the FFVII Ultimania and most (if not all) of what I was told wasn't even removed, just stuff that Square felt that we missed, even though partically all of it I always figured anyway. For example; the fact that most of the clones in Nibelheim are survivors from the fire - No offence, but how could anyone miss that?! All you have to do is talk to the "clones" and you'll realize that they act the same way. The thing is, in FF games, don't just read the text your told to - talk to the NPCs, take time to gather information. Somethings do get removed and changed, but others are just reiterated.