Mass Effect 3

[Ouch!]

Begin countdown now. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkBAQeOYNiw&feature=player_embedded)

[Mirage]

I just hope I can still explore space like crazy without any time constraints. That was my favourite thing to do in ME.

[Jessweeee♪]

Does that mean I get to really go to Earth? o:

[Bunny]

Oh man.

[Freya]

*holds breath while clicking the link* I just played through mass effect 1 twice and mass effect 2 for the second time. o.o

[Rase]

Because of this I'm having to screen all videogame news for a friend who is afraid of spoilers.

[kotora]

I hope they won't screw up the battle system like they did in 2 and make it more interesting instead of just shooting your way through rooms with conveniently placed boxes.

[Pheesh]

It launches at the same time on PS3, woop.

[Vyk]

I still need to play the second one :[

[Elite Lord Sigma]

I need to get my save files ready for this game. Let's go!

[Bolivar]

Kinda excited its launching day 1 on ps3, haven't really been sold yet on whether or not to take the plunge, though.

[Iceglow]

Oh sweet mother of god, dear lord....oh god, oh god, oh god! I actually think I may have just Jizzed in my pants, that trailer video is so just yes, oh yes. Combine this with Elder Scrolls 5 and Dragon Age 2 and you may see me disappear for several years to reappear with blood eyes (bloodshot won't come close) and the worlds most impressive hobo beard, put Gears 3 in there and you may never see me again!

One note:


I hope they won't screw up the battle system like they did in 2 and make it more interesting instead of just shooting your way through rooms with conveniently placed boxes.

Kotora, what are you on about? Did you never play through 1? The combat in ME has always been shooting your way through rooms with convieniently placed boxes. Frankly, having done nearly the entire game on insanity for the first one I can safely say the "shoot everything til it dies" works in every situation bar none. The only time the combat got different is when the Mako was involved and well in 2 the Mako was gone (though I loved the DLC Hammerhead! Awesome times zipping round worlds in that wish we had the choice of doing old school ME1 planetary exploration or the scanner stuff, personally would never use a single bloody probe!!)

The only thing wrong with ME2 was not combat it was planetary scanning, ok so many people felt the Mako environments were lacking and too repetitive but frankly, the Mako rocked compared to the scanner, the scanner to clear a planet completely could take 2 loads of probes (and thats with the expansion) and considering how many planets that exist in the ME galaxy, thats a fuck ton of probes, ofcourse you don't need that much resources, especially considering you can never actually sell them off. I think I was more annoyed by the scanner and the lack of a need to purchase equipment/items in 2 than I was by anything else.

[Shiny]

God damn, I say god damn. This look fantastic. I can't wait! Finally seems like we're going to get to explore Earth.

[Shadowdust]

I'm really excited about this. It's one of the few shooter games where I enjoy the gameplay plus the story is just awesome.

[kotora]

I hope they won't screw up the battle system like they did in 2 and make it more interesting instead of just shooting your way through rooms with conveniently placed boxes.

Kotora, what are you on about? Did you never play through 1? The combat in ME has always been shooting your way through rooms with convieniently placed boxes. Frankly, having done nearly the entire game on insanity for the first one I can safely say the "shoot everything til it dies" works in every situation bar none. The only time the combat got different is when the Mako was involved and well in 2 the Mako was gone (though I loved the DLC Hammerhead! Awesome times zipping round worlds in that wish we had the choice of doing old school ME1 planetary exploration or the scanner stuff, personally would never use a single bloody probe!!)


as usually you seem to be rather unable to make distinctions between things

sure combat was similar in ME1 and 2, but the areas were much less repetitive in the first one, they were more open and there were much less cover boxes and we got a fuckload more equipment customization. While there was too much equipment lying around in the first one, in the second they screwed it up by oversimplifying everything to cater to the XBox audience. I thought the system with the weapon overheating was better than having to pick up the "heat" (ie ammo) clips lying around the battlefield.

They were supposed to improve upon the combat system of the first one, not cater to the lowest common denominator and turn it into another cheap TPS. But then again I guess all the Xbox kiddies loved it.

also I never understood why people were bitching about the Mako. I thought those parts of the game were pretty cool.

[Freya]

Wtf are you talking about? The first one was so incredibly repetitive. They just copy pasted the zones. Every Compound or whatever was the same thing just maybe a door was opened in this one instead of being closed like in the last 5 you visited.

[Vyk]

Why do you keep bashing Xbox in that statement? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the first ME an Xbox exclusive? So if they ruined stuff in the sequel it was to cater to PS3 people. Not to mention, for some reason most Xbox players are bred on FPS games for some reason. So they don't need things dumbed down. Most people need more challenge

[Jiro]

Oh :bou::bou::bou::bou: yes :excited:

[Loony BoB]

Both ME & ME2 had their ups and downs.

ME was terrible for the equipment/inventory system. Basically the UI was utter crap. Everything else was pretty good if not great, although the Mako exploring could have been improved. It just needed a bit more thought to the presentation of the planets, I felt.

ME2 was terrible for the scanning system. Basically the way you made money (or 'resources') was utter crap. Everything else was pretty good if not great, although the battle areas could have been more varied. It just needed a bit more thought to the variation of the battlefields, I felt.

For the ME battle areas, I think it was a bit better in that it had more opportunity to do different things, such as that one area where you drove the Mako around a sort of obstacle course planet, shooting bots and turrets and whatnot, and then nearer the end you have to hop out and start sniping over a vast distance before you would charge in. There wasn't anything remotely like that in ME2. Overall I really enjoyed both games, though, despite the parts that could have been done better.

[kotora]

Why do you keep bashing Xbox in that statement? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the first ME an Xbox exclusive? So if they ruined stuff in the sequel it was to cater to PS3 people. Not to mention, for some reason most Xbox players are bred on FPS games for some reason. So they don't need things dumbed down. Most people need more challenge

PS3 = Xbox360 for people with more money. I'm not gonna make distinctions between the different console crowds. Point is, this generation of games has been super dumbed down (aka made "casual" or whatever they like to call it) in gameplay and presentation and that fucking sucks. It has nothing to do with challenges.

[Ouch!]

The rampant elitism is staggering.

In my day, we had to trudge uphill killing zombies both ways!

[Vyk]

Damn casual gamers lol?? Its a double-edged problem though. Everyone expects grade A presentation in games. Which costs a lot of money. To make that money they have to cater to a larger (moronic) crowd. The companies are just as much to blame as the mass of console-owning idiots. The companies need to realize at some point that gameplay, story, artistic style, and general substance are more important than pretty graphics. I'll always argue that it'd be better to take a cut away from trying to be leading/bleeding edge and make something cheaper and yet better. Then they don't have to spend as much, can be more creative, do it right, and also not have to please so many people

[Shiny]

I hope they won't screw up the battle system like they did in 2 and make it more interesting instead of just shooting your way through rooms with conveniently placed boxes.

Kotora, what are you on about? Did you never play through 1? The combat in ME has always been shooting your way through rooms with convieniently placed boxes. Frankly, having done nearly the entire game on insanity for the first one I can safely say the "shoot everything til it dies" works in every situation bar none. The only time the combat got different is when the Mako was involved and well in 2 the Mako was gone (though I loved the DLC Hammerhead! Awesome times zipping round worlds in that wish we had the choice of doing old school ME1 planetary exploration or the scanner stuff, personally would never use a single bloody probe!!)


as usually you seem to be rather unable to make distinctions between things

sure combat was similar in ME1 and 2, but the areas were much less repetitive in the first one, they were more open and there were much less cover boxes and we got a smurfload more equipment customization. While there was too much equipment lying around in the first one, in the second they screwed it up by oversimplifying everything to cater to the XBox audience. I thought the system with the weapon overheating was better than having to pick up the "heat" (ie ammo) clips lying around the battlefield.

They were supposed to improve upon the combat system of the first one, not cater to the lowest common denominator and turn it into another cheap TPS. But then again I guess all the Xbox kiddies loved it.

also I never understood why people were bitching about the Mako. I thought those parts of the game were pretty cool.

Good to see you work there or have some sort of telepathy as it seems you know what they were trying to do. I doubt highly they were trying to oversimplify it for the Xbox audience. What does that even mean? Makes no sense and it's condescending. The Mako DOES suck. Quite simply, it's the only thing I didn't enjoy in the game aside from something else you mentioned -- which was the fact that there WAS too much equipment lying around. They improved on that in the sequel. Less is more in video games. When you have too much of something it becomes either tedious or too easy.

Also, I can't believe people are still having the PS3 vs. Xbox 360 argument. That's so ridiculous. If the games are dumbed down then play on harder settings or don't play the game at all instead of complaining about the gamers who play them as if that makes any sense. If you have a problem it's obviously because it's either you or the game.

[kotora]

Nobody's having a PS3 vs. Xbox argument. stop putting up straw men.

Vyk: they've been at the limit for graphics in the current consoles, especially the xbox, for a few years now. Graphics are only getting just a little better. It's another straw man argument. Companies aren't making games retarded because they're putting all their money into some evil graphics department that's leaving the other parts of the game underdeveloped.

[Ouch!]

So many people shouting out about straw men, and yet no Raistlin to be found. Seriously, knock it off.

The weapon "customization" in Mass Effect wasn't particularly anything special, and the cluttered inventory and poor UI to manage it made it hardly worth the effort of going through. So Mass Effect 2 went in the opposite direction towards minimizing the options. I'm with Shiny in so far as I don't necessarily think that more is better.

If you want an RPG with a gun, go play the Fallout games so you can pause and get your 95% hit rate for the body shot. Mass Effect has always been a third person shooter with RPG elements, and I think Mass Effect 2 was just being honest about that. Would I have liked a couple more options for each character than just four places to put stats? Sure. At the same time, I appreciated the way the limited skills encouraged you to use different allies depending on the situation and type of enemy you expected to be facing.

Also, the Mako was :bou::bou::bou::bou:. World exploration in Mass Effect was an absolute joke and by far the biggest disappointment about the entire game. Mass Effect 2 has a greater sense of a fuller universe because of the diversity of environments which was absolutely lacking in the first game. The sequences with the Mako only served to emphasize how one world was copy pasted from another with a color palette swap.

[Madame Adequate]

Exploration in ME was :bou::bou::bou::bou:, but that had nothing to do with the Mako and everything to do with the fact that nowhere was very interesting.

The Mako itself was fine. No idea why people hate it. ME was a better game overall and ME2 certainly lost something in their streamlining efforts.

[Mirage]

I have no idea what you're talking about, I loved the exploration in ME1, even if many structures were copypasta.

Actually, I think that for many of the structures, it made sense that they had similar interior. I just thought of it as if you had a good design for a mining plant, several organizations would buy that same thing and use it several places. Same with freighters, and various other structures.

I loved driving around in the Mako too, finding debris, ancient artifacts, destroying the odd tresher. Heck, I even loved surveying planets and just reading their description. I am also a huge astronomy nerd though.

[Shiny]

straw men.

I don't even know that is, but it also sounds ridiculous. I think there's too much complaining going on for something that has nothing to do with the game. We don't know what the cut off point to graphics will be, but they have been getting progressively better and most games nowadays looks amazing on HDTV. So that's just nitpicking. Seriously again, if you don't like it don't play it. No one is holding a gun to your head saying you have to play a game you dislike only to complain about it and some how mix in a Xbox gamers argument because you're obviously bias to another console.

Also, I loathe the Mako because it's controls were crap and I hate having to explore a mostly empty landscape with the occasional alien for too long. It would be different if there was more diversity in the worlds like there is when you go to places like The Citadel. There should be just as much diversity in unexplored worlds.

[Iceglow]

Exploration in ME was :bou::bou::bou::bou:, but that had nothing to do with the Mako and everything to do with the fact that nowhere was very interesting.

The Mako itself was fine. No idea why people hate it. ME was a better game overall and ME2 certainly lost something in their streamlining efforts.

I don't know if I would rate ME1 as better than ME2 but it is certainly different, the planetary scanner for some people gave a sense of a bigger universe, to me it merely got tiresome especially since resources couldn't be sold off and even if you did sell them off what would you buy? There was a grand total (excluding medigel upgrades) of around 20 - 30 decent items to buy whereas in ME1 I would often spend time selling off redundant equipment to purchase newer, better gear such as SPECTRE gear (through multiple playthroughs it's possible to equip 3 party members with this elite equipment, more if you kept importing the same character over and over) It seemed to me that ME1 certainly offered a better more evolved trade system than ME2 but I'm going to agree the UI was terrible.


The weapon "customization" in Mass Effect wasn't particularly anything special, and the cluttered inventory and poor UI to manage it made it hardly worth the effort of going through. So Mass Effect 2 went in the opposite direction towards minimizing the options. I'm with Shiny in so far as I don't necessarily think that more is better.

You're right more items doesn't generally mean more diversity, lets face it if you have a weapon class, for example a handgun/pistol. For arguments sake I'm going to use Imperial technology weapons from the Warhammer 40k universe:

You begin with an Automag pistol (basically a current tech level pistol), you move up to the Laspistol (though you can argue these are the same tech level as automags), you then go to the Bolt Pistol (automag firing highly explosive rounds, big, bulky, awesome, most powerful conventional handgun out there) after that you get the speciality pistols such as the Seraphim's hand flamers (flamers which have limited range but can be twin carried, effective on light infantry or unarmoured targets or for clearing a bunker I'd imagine) or a Melta pistol (limited range, superheated air is used to melt anything in the way, cutting your way through something like a tank with these puppies is easy) or Plasma pistols (unreliable as hell but when they work dear god, best of both worlds, plasma will cut through heavy armour and smoke the flesh inside in one shot just be sure to pack something as a backup to go with) Now disregarding the fact that in the literature of 40k there is millions of variants of automag/laspistol/hand flamer/melta pistol/plasma pistol/bolt pistol you have 6 weapons. Except where the enemy is going to be entirely mechanical (melta pistols here we come) for example Necrons or entirely exposed to the effects of a flamer (hello chaos cultists) who if they have either the armour piercing bolt pistol or boil away anything plasma pistol is going to use a laspistol or automag ever again?

A better solution to the huge amounts of guns found in ME1 was kinda there too but because of poor UI and thinking through became a bit pointless, the slots for weapons, ok so top tier weapons got 3 slots and bottom tier get 1 slot makes the number of weapons become a bit more justifiable but mix in the ME2 upgrade system for the guns to gain slots and power and then the ME1 buying your upgrades and fitting them in to slots is better. Far better to offer many different addons what can combine in interesting ways (worst thing was they'd allow you to double up an add on for stacked effects or use two addons like "stabilizer IV" and "stabilizer V" if only one stabilizer could be used but an enhanced stock could be fitted to eat more stability it'd be awesome) than to offer too many weapons which barely make any sense (though really they did, the guns when you look at them came in about 6 or 7 different series, the series would have a similar look and some guns would fire less frequently but more powerfully, thus overheating more and others would have high rates of fire and low damage per shot last type was the balanced gun where damage, ammo and shots before overheat would be averaged out)

Still theres a lot of things that could happen, frankly I expect we'll see more of the ME2 combat in 3 than anything else.


Both ME & ME2 had their ups and downs.

ME was terrible for the equipment/inventory system. Basically the UI was utter crap. Everything else was pretty good if not great, although the Mako exploring could have been improved. It just needed a bit more thought to the presentation of the planets, I felt.

ME2 was terrible for the scanning system. Basically the way you made money (or 'resources') was utter crap. Everything else was pretty good if not great, although the battle areas could have been more varied. It just needed a bit more thought to the variation of the battlefields, I felt.

For the ME battle areas, I think it was a bit better in that it had more opportunity to do different things, such as that one area where you drove the Mako around a sort of obstacle course planet, shooting bots and turrets and whatnot, and then nearer the end you have to hop out and start sniping over a vast distance before you would charge in. There wasn't anything remotely like that in ME2. Overall I really enjoyed both games, though, despite the parts that could have been done better.

I'm going to agree with BoB on most of this, which is a shock, I didn't believe we would agree on this. I personally, wasn't impressed with the use of the Mako on Noveria because once you take the game of the more casual settings the only real way of dealing with the mission was to drive 20ft and then get out and snipe at ridiculous ranges using the Mako in that mission to fight became sheer suicide because the enemies AI became too good at predicting how you'd move in an enclosed space so evading the damage you took became all but insurmountable.


as usually you seem to be rather unable to make distinctions between things

sure combat was similar in ME1 and 2, but the areas were much less repetitive in the first one, they were more open and there were much less cover boxes and we got a smurfload more equipment customization. While there was too much equipment lying around in the first one, in the second they screwed it up by oversimplifying everything to cater to the XBox audience. I thought the system with the weapon overheating was better than having to pick up the "heat" (ie ammo) clips lying around the battlefield.

They were supposed to improve upon the combat system of the first one, not cater to the lowest common denominator and turn it into another cheap TPS. But then again I guess all the Xbox kiddies loved it.

also I never understood why people were bitching about the Mako. I thought those parts of the game were pretty cool.

I sure can make a hell of a lot of distinction here, the thing is you're plain wrong. ME1 combat zones aside from the main missions (Noveria, Virmire, Feros ect) were very repetitive even the Citadel combat zones were the same textures as every other coridor you fight in. ME2 was more of the same very much literally so. There were not more cover provided, maybe you just wasn't using the cover right in the first game or maybe you had invested in shield armour generating addons meaning you weren't at risk of having them taken down so often but, there was an equal amount if not greater amount of convienient cover on the first game as the second game.

Pandering to the Xbox community, wow...ok way to go off on your high horse there pc gamer. Frankly I gave up on pc gaming because pc gaming constantly requires me to rebuild my computer with the latest upgrades and components. I don't happen to have 3 - 400 quid laying around to build my computer anew every year to get new parts to keep on playing games. Even though you claim in later posts that you're not having this argument your argument here is either a strawman where you could not adequately refute my point about ME1 and ME2 both being exactly the same when it comes to how combat works and so decided to use the fact that I play and advocate playing games on the xbox over other formats to create a diversion or well, well Raistlin in a bikini is not one of the scariest most mentally scarring images you could ever be forced to masturbate to, though seriously? Oh catering for the xbox gamers huh huh is a weak argument because frankly the fact is compared to the latest 3rd person shooters I played on PC...oh wait sorry they don't really produce games purely for PC except for MMO's and RTS' anymore so the game would've been about 10 - 15 years old and more dumbed down than the average halo, killzone or call of duty game of today. (not speaking from experience here kids but the thought of raistlin in a bikini is eww, the thought of being made to wank madly to it would make me comit suicide)

[Shiny]

On a side note, I think I'm screwed for this game. Cheated on Liara with Jacob. SHE MIGHT FIND OUT.

[Iceglow]

On a side note, I think I'm screwed for this game. Cheated on Liara with Jacob. SHE MIGHT FIND OUT.

Hahaha oh dear. I guess it all depends on if everyone survived the final mission or not in your playthrough. I wanna go through on insanity before I get there and finish my mass effect 1 play through on insanity too.

[Shiny]

They all survived. I tried to kill Miranda, but bish just wouldn't die.

[Vyk]

I dunno why the term "strawman" argument has become such a catch phrase term on this forum in the last month or so

[Mirage]

Frankly I gave up on pc gaming because pc gaming constantly requires me to rebuild my computer with the latest upgrades and components. I don't happen to have 3 - 400 quid laying around to build my computer anew every year to get new parts to keep on playing games.

3-400 pounds every year? You must be doing something wrong. Nowadays, PC+console multiplatform releases means games are more forgiving when it comes to old video cards than ever. I can run Mass Effect 2 at a graphical level that is very close to what the XB360 outputs, and I bought this 8800 GT video card for £100 over two years ago.

But of course, if you insist on your PC games looking 10 times better than the same games do on a console, then I suppose you also have to pay extra for that.

-edit-

Actually, I just took a screenshot (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1132077/images/MassEffect2-2010-12-15-03-55-27-78.jpg) of a scene with a fair amount of 3D models and stuff. This runs at about a 40% higher resolution than the game runs at on Xb360, and I'm getting a framerate of about 50 fps there. On 360, the game is capped at 30 FPS, but sometimes dips a few frames below that. Framerates as low as 30 are very rare on my PC.

I'm not running the game with antialiasing on, the 360 version doesn't use that anyway. I did however run ME1 with 4x AA and had very few problems with that.

[Seraphic]

They all survived. I tried to kill Miranda, but bish just wouldn't die.

I love you for this.

[Jessweeee♪]

I guess it's time to make my WORST ME2 IMPORT FILE EVER.


I'm going to make two. One will have literally everyone on the Normandy but Joker end up dead. Half of the crew will be turned into genetic paste, the other half along with the party member I send as an escort will be killed. All of my other party members will have died shortly after I defeat the human reaper thing. Shepard won't quite be able to reach the Normandy when escaping, and with no party members to help her up she'll fall and die, leaving Joker and EDI by themselves. Bioware said I would not be able to import a file where Shepard dies, so the second file will have two surviving party members to help Shepard onto the ship. (I think two is the minimum). And of course I will pick the Super Renegade option.

(The yay everybody lives file is ready to go.)


Unfortunately we don't have Mass Effect 1, and I haven't even been able to finish the game once, so I'll be stuck with the "default" choices for all of the variables pulled from there :(


I dunno why the term "strawman" argument has become such a catch phrase term on this forum in the last month or so

I thought we had a censor that turned it into "strawberry". Which one of you evil admins took it off? :(

[Goldenboko]

Why do you keep bashing Xbox in that statement? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the first ME an Xbox exclusive? So if they ruined stuff in the sequel it was to cater to PS3 people. Not to mention, for some reason most Xbox players are bred on FPS games for some reason. So they don't need things dumbed down. Most people need more challenge

PS3 = Xbox360 for people with more money. I'm not gonna make distinctions between the different console crowds. Point is, this generation of games has been super dumbed down (aka made "casual" or whatever they like to call it) in gameplay and presentation and that fucking sucks. It has nothing to do with challenges.

I'd love you to back up any of that with an actual argument. :lol:

[Iceglow]

They all survived. I tried to kill Miranda, but bish just wouldn't die.

My Commander Shepherd was too busy screwing her to have her die but, putting her and Jack together made for fun times. Especially since Jack fell in love with him too so having a party of Miranda and Jack would result in some brilliant one liners. Bit like putting Shale and Morrigan in your party with Dog in DA:O

[Jessweeee♪]

Miranda is weird. She can't die in certain situations, but if you fail to meet the requirements any other party member would have to have she'll randomly die later on instead.

[Ouch!]

Exploration in ME was :bou::bou::bou::bou:, but that had nothing to do with the Mako and everything to do with the fact that nowhere was very interesting.

The Mako itself was fine. No idea why people hate it. ME was a better game overall and ME2 certainly lost something in their streamlining efforts.
The Mako added nothing important to ME. In planetary exploration, it was an obnoxious way to get around barren landscapes with nothing to do except climb some damned mountains while you looked for a couple things to click on. When it was used on Therum, Noveria, and Feros it's just a tacked-on segment to drive down a single path which does nothing except give the illusion of size. Combat in the Mako is boring (I always get out to kill enemies for increased exp. gain anyway). All the worst segments of Mass Effect happen in the Mako except, perhaps, the escape from Ilos.

The streamlining efforts in Mass Effect 2 were certainly limiting, but I really don't feel that the game lost much of consequence as a result. I would have appreciated a little more in the way of weapon modification than a few base models and some permanent upgrades, and, as I mentioned, a little more variation in ally commands would have been appreciated as well. At the same time, I liked seeing that my allies were more than just the same classes I could be with a slightly different class name.

Bioware has already announced that they want to bring back a bit more focus on the RPG elements for Mass Effect 3, so likely some of these concerns will be addressed. That said, I think Mass Effect 2 gives a much fuller sense of the universe than Mass Effect. We get to encounter a much greater variety of worlds in both the missions and the assignments. In the original, only the locations involved with the missions get any deal of attention while the assignments all fall to the wayside.

[Jessweeee♪]

I messed up forever and didn't get Legion. Also the crew survived. I thought sending an unloyal escort would kill all of them, but it just killed the escort. But I killed everyone else including Shepard, so it doesn't matter anyway. I'll go back and make a couple of squad members loyal so Shepard will live.

[DMKA]

So is Mass Effect an RPG or is it an FPS that everyone likes to call an RPG like Fallout 3?

[Jessweeee♪]

It's technically an RPG, and has some common RPG elements, but on the field you are shooting with guns and stuff, so depending on what you think of when you hear "RPG" you might consider it a third person shooter.


(Usually if I enjoy it, it's leaning more on the RPG side.)

[Madame Adequate]

Exploration in ME was :bou::bou::bou::bou:, but that had nothing to do with the Mako and everything to do with the fact that nowhere was very interesting.

The Mako itself was fine. No idea why people hate it. ME was a better game overall and ME2 certainly lost something in their streamlining efforts.
The Mako added nothing important to ME. In planetary exploration, it was an obnoxious way to get around barren landscapes with nothing to do except climb some damned mountains while you looked for a couple things to click on. When it was used on Therum, Noveria, and Feros it's just a tacked-on segment to drive down a single path which does nothing except give the illusion of size. Combat in the Mako is boring (I always get out to kill enemies for increased exp. gain anyway). All the worst segments of Mass Effect happen in the Mako except, perhaps, the escape from Ilos.

The streamlining efforts in Mass Effect 2 were certainly limiting, but I really don't feel that the game lost much of consequence as a result. I would have appreciated a little more in the way of weapon modification than a few base models and some permanent upgrades, and, as I mentioned, a little more variation in ally commands would have been appreciated as well. At the same time, I liked seeing that my allies were more than just the same classes I could be with a slightly different class name.

Bioware has already announced that they want to bring back a bit more focus on the RPG elements for Mass Effect 3, so likely some of these concerns will be addressed. That said, I think Mass Effect 2 gives a much fuller sense of the universe than Mass Effect. We get to encounter a much greater variety of worlds in both the missions and the assignments. In the original, only the locations involved with the missions get any deal of attention while the assignments all fall to the wayside.

This is fair. I don't take issue with the Mako but that's because I found it enjoyable, so that fact that it was transparent padding wasn't relevant. I do agree that the barren worlds of ME were often fairly dire, though I'm compelled to say that I really felt the Mako section on Ilos, at least, was fairly great.

My main problem with the streamlining was in the removal of customizable weapons and armor. ME certainly had an abominable menu system and an overabundance of too-similar weapons, but I feel that the best solution was somewhere in the middle. ME2 went much too far in the other direction, and I don't think removing the various customization options was a wise decision. Still, I agree with your hopes for ME3!

[Loony BoB]

So is Mass Effect an RPG or is it an FPS that everyone likes to call an RPG like Fallout 3?
Well, for a start, I'm pretty sure it's a third person shooter rather than first person shooter. You'll spend a lot of time talking and walking around rather than shooting. I'd say it's more RPG than any Tomb Raider game, easily, and I wouldn't call them standard third person shooters either. But yeah, 50/50. I can't say I've played Fallout 3, mind you.

[kotora]

Fallout 3 has more RPG elements than Mass Effect, especially the second which went even farther down the TPS road.

[DMKA]

So is Mass Effect an RPG or is it an FPS that everyone likes to call an RPG like Fallout 3?
Well, for a start, I'm pretty sure it's a third person shooter rather than first person shooter. You'll spend a lot of time talking and walking around rather than shooting. I'd say it's more RPG than any Tomb Raider game, easily, and I wouldn't call them standard third person shooters either. But yeah, 50/50. I can't say I've played Fallout 3, mind you.

Ah cool. Does it have an actual intriguing plot or just a "here's a sad excuse for a story we pulled out of our ass for the sake of a few cutscenes to continue the shooting along" plot? Also is there an actual main character or is it one of those "you are the character now make your own character who will say little to nothing the entire game" deals?

I'm honestly really interested but I can't find these answers anywhere.

[Vyk]

Customizable stat progression, lots of character interaction, boat loads of equipment upgrades, and a 30+ hour story. Sounds like an RPG to me. I think maybe the reason people don't want to consider them RPGs is they have a tough time swallowing the genre blending, and want shooter games to stay in their own genre. But if its not an RPG, its definitely doing a good job imitating the mechanics

Edit: It has a long plot, which I found intriguing. It pulled inspiration from old sci-fi shows. Back-alley interrogations reminded me of Blade Runner and stuff. There's a few mysteries to solve, and a chase to the end. There's a lot of action, but depending on how you progress, you could get more out of the plot than the fun shooting and killing stuff

You can design your own character to a degree, though there is a default, and they have a last name, which everyone in the game refers to you by. "Commander Shephard". Which allows them to BE addressed, no matter your gender or anything. And your character is as much a character in the story as anyone else. Easily as talkative as any other character. He has his own personality, but you get to decide what parts he shows the world. You can choose to be an asshole, or try to be a nice guy. But its all Commander Shephard. Not sure if I'm explaining it properly, but yeah

[kotora]

Bioware set themselves at the top of the industry with the way cutscenes/conversations are handled in this game. Atm there's no game that handles them more immersive than Mass Effect does. They're an example for the rest to follow, especially them japanese, who are still stuck in the SNES era when it comes to this kind of stuff, could learn a thing or two from them. One can only hope Bioware will continue their good work.

[Jessweeee♪]

You can customize everything but your surname. You're always "Shepard" so cutscenes don't get awkward with those "you"s and "that guy"s that you normally get with customized players. However Shepard is fully voiced and has plenty of personality. A lot of personality, depending on the dialog options you pick. Whether you're the nicest person in the world or a total dick, at the core Shepard still has his/her own personality. It's nice, because Shepard feels as real as the rest of the cast, unlike a lot of self-insert hero games.

Here's a short spoiler free cutscene if you want to see it at work. But uh, don't look at the titles of the related videos if you want to avoid spoilers. (Catfight! Language is NSFW)

YouTube - Mass Effect 2 - Loyalty Conflict Cutscene (Miranda vs. Jack) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc4UgXjIG0E)


Personally I find male Shepard's voice to sound a bit bland every now and then, but female Shepard is great. As for the plot, I only played Mass Effect 2 and I found it fascinating. However FFXIII is one of my favorite games, so you might not value my opinion on that. The ending is what makes the game if you ask me.


EDIT:

Also, if anyone is interested but was not aware, Bioware is doing the same thing in Dragon Age 2. You'll be playing "Hawke" and there will be a dialog wheel just like Mass Effect's, but with some sort of indication as to how the line will be delivered. Which is nice, because in Mass Effect there was the occasional option that came out more flirty than I intended. Not very original, but it's better than what they had in the first Dragon Age :|

[kotora]

Yeah, Dragon Age used the same old system they had in Kotor which was really a step back. Then again all of Dragon Age felt like a medieval themed mod for Mass Effect made by fans.

[Vyk]

Yeah but in those games, what you chose to say, was actually what you did say. In Mass Effect, since you have that wheel in the middle, you're given a paraphrased statement to choose from, since there's not enough room around the wheel for whole sentences. Then you end up choosing a sarcastic statement seriously and end up sounding like an asshole when you didn't intend to. I like that they're planning on adding an emotional guide to the wheel, so it tells you how each statement is meant to sound. But I still prefer choosing the actual response than guessing how he'll actually say what I chose

[kotora]

I liked it because reading the entire things first and then having to hear it is kinda tedious and would take up a lot of space on the screen. The paraphrased statements are usually pretty accurate about what he's gonna say.

plus I always sound like an asshole anyway

[Jessweeee♪]

For the most part the "mean" responses are at the bottom and the "nice" ones are at the top, so most of the time I only slip up when I choose something like "tell me about yourself" and Shepard is like "I like you tell me more you sexy sexy man wink wink."

[DMKA]

Holy cow those are some hideous characters.

Can you alter their appearances?

[Jessweeee♪]

Just Shepard. I find the defaults look best. She always comes up kind of ugly when I customize her. Your team mates have alternate costumes you can unlock if you do their optional loyalty missions, but they aren't that different from the original (except for Jack, she actually has clothes instead of that weird strap across her nipples.)

[DMKA]

Just Shepard. I find the defaults look best. She always comes up kind of ugly when I customize her. Your team mates have alternate costumes you can unlock if you do their optional loyalty missions, but they aren't that different from the original (except for Jack, she actually has clothes instead of that weird strap across her nipples.)

Ah. Oh well, I still want to try it out. I played Baten Kaitos with no problem and it's characters were a million times uglier.

[Vyk]

Talk of RPGs with ugly-ass characters always makes me think of Beyond the Beyond xD and wow, I never realized they designated the "mean" comments to the bottom. Sometimes it was left and right, when it was blatant Paragon/Renegade answers, which were also designated in blue and red. But those were obvious. Guess I shoulda paid better attention. And the models mostly only look ugly in certain lightings. A lot of the game itself is played in areas where its not so bad. But it still crops up now and again. I'd say Ashley looks better than any chick in Oblivion :}

And I guess the tedium of choosing to hear a phrase I just read was padded by the fact that an entire conversation usually resulted along the lines of the original statement. So instead of choosing a line, I was directing the conversation towards a scene. Though now that you mention it, the games that let you choose whole sentences always had mute main characters. So they probably had your complaint in mind when they made the paraphrased wheel

[Mirage]

Holy cow those are some hideous characters.

Can you alter their appearances?

That video's got a horrible looking shepard, and it makes sense that Jack looks like she does, considering her back story. It is also impossible to make an all right looking female shepard. The default is the "best", but default shepard looks better from an objective standpoint. I just don't choose him because he doesn't have tits.

It's also too bad you can't get Liara on your team in ME2, she is pretty hot. You get an asari in ME2 too, but she's like 800 years old and looks like an old hag.

[kotora]

I found it impossible to make a normal good looking Shepard, whether male or female

best alternative is to make them look azn

[Vyk]

Yeah, my guy ended up looking Hispanic or Asian, depending on the lighting. I can't remember what combination I used with my female version. But I'm almost positive I didn't use the default and still ended up satisfied with her results. But its not easy, for sure

[Freya]

My Shepard was hot. I tried making a male shepard but I hate his voice. I like the female voice far better than the male.

[Jessweeee♪]

I like the default appearance for female Shepard. She looks sorta nice while still looking like a space marine.


Talk of RPGs with ugly-ass characters always makes me think of Beyond the Beyond xD and wow, I never realized they designated the "mean" comments to the bottom. Sometimes it was left and right, when it was blatant Paragon/Renegade answers, which were also designated in blue and red. But those were obvious. Guess I shoulda paid better attention. And the models mostly only look ugly in certain lightings. A lot of the game itself is played in areas where its not so bad. But it still crops up now and again. I'd say Ashley looks better than any chick in Oblivion :}

I didn't notice myself until my boyfriend told me. The colored ones you can only pick if you have enough of the corresponding points. I keep trying to do Samara's loyalty mission the Super Renegade way, but you need lots of points >:I

But uh, I only played ME2. It may have been arranged differently in the first.

[Freya]

It's generally the same in both but occasionally they'll change it up and you say a mean thing because you were being lazy and picking the top thing. Always make sure to at least skim xD

[Shiny]

My Shepard was hot. I tried making a male shepard but I hate his voice. I like the female voice far better than the male.

I agree. The female Shepard's voice is so amazing and husky. The voice actress really does a great job at conveying the emotions of both the Paragon and Renegade side. Her voice seems to work with any look as well. However, the male voice is monotone and tends to not fit the look of some people's characters. He sounds like he's reading off of a cue card sometimes.

I will take a screencap of my character.

[Markus. D]

Uhm. It's a bit of a messy blog post.

Here. (http://merlinmarshmellow.tumblr.com/post/2147962582/tl-dr-mass-effect-3-i-could-be-bacon-down-to-yours)

[Shiny]

Just played the Lair of the Shadow Broker. The new alien is pretty cool and the dossiers for some of the characters were pretty interesting. From the dossiers, I learned Miranda is impotent and that she is a part of a dating service.

[kotora]

how about some spoiler alert

[Madame Adequate]

The only truly important things from Shadow Broker dossiers are
Tali installing and uninstalling a vibrator in her suit like five times
Wrex running a web search for 'tyrannosaurs wrex' (sic)

[Shiny]

Hahaha! I forgot about Tali's. So funny. Wrex's was okay. Really most of the were funny. I got chuckled when I read the end of Garrus'.

[kotora]

So I got Mass Effect on PC through Steam's christmas deals and torrented the sequel. I like the first one more in terms of gameplay but at least ME2 allows me to mod the graphics and a lot of other elements in the game such as replacing the gay ammo system with the old heat system on weapons. Gotta give them props for using flexible engines like that.

[Jessweeee♪]

We received some Microsoft points for Christmas and spent some of it on Mass Effect DLC. Overlord was just awesome. Best DLC I've ever played!

[Iceglow]

Currently doing a vanilla ME2 playthrough this means going with a new character to determine the "cannon" events of ME1. So far the council being left to die and Kaiden surviving are my major diversity points. I'm also playing as a renegade female Shepherd who is kicking ass as a Vanguard class biotic. Will need to prepare a couple of more files soon.

[kotora]

We received some Microsoft points for Christmas and spent some of it on Mass Effect DLC. Overlord was just awesome. Best DLC I've ever played!

I found Lair of the Shadow Broker much better. It was pretty mediocre gameplay-wise (which fits in pretty well with the rest of ME2) but at least it added to the storyline and the romance with Liara. Overlord was just another side mission and the Hammerhead parts smurfing sucked.

Then again maybe that's just what players deserved after all that bitching about the Mako.

[Jessweeee♪]

I haven't played ME1 yet, so I don't have an import file. It seems that Ashley is on Horizon if you're male, and Kaiden if you're female. Haven't seen Wrex anywhere, but I don't know what the significance of that is.



We received some Microsoft points for Christmas and spent some of it on Mass Effect DLC. Overlord was just awesome. Best DLC I've ever played!

I found Lair of the Shadow Broker much better. It was pretty mediocre gameplay-wise (which fits in pretty well with the rest of ME2) but at least it added to the storyline and the romance with Liara. Oblivion was just another side mission and the Hammerhead parts fucking sucked.

Then again maybe that's just what players deserved after all that bitching about the Mako.

I've played it since making that post, and I agree. I wonder if it'll have any impact in ME3!

[Freya]

Wrex gets all angry at something and you have the choice to put him down or talk him out of it. Honestly he didn't seem that angry to me when i played it so I don't know why you'd have to shoot him. But if you don't have a ME1 save file it just makes your ME2 start off as if they went renegade. If you save him in 1 then he's the leader of the Krogan in 2.

EDIT BY BoB: spoiler tags are better than just saying "SPOILER" :p

[kotora]

Just finished ME2 on the PC with my female renegade/paragon Shepard (who is much more interesting to play with than the generic hero type dude Shepard I had on my xbox save). Too bad nobody died because a bit of extra drama would've added to the suspense for the last part of the trilogy.

also kinda lame how they had a special credit song for ME1 and replaced with some ingame track in the sequel. Seems weird seeing how the production values are much higher for the second one with its fancy voice actors and whatnot.

[Jessweeee♪]

Kill everyone, it's awesome!

I finally finished my importable worst ME2 file ever. Then post-game I killed Zaeed on his loyalty mission, though I have a feeling that could come back to haunt me in ME3. I tried so hard to recruit Morinth, but eventually I ran out of things to do to raise my Renegade score. There were a few loyalty missions left, but uh, I wanted to kill people, so I couldn't do too many of those. Unfortunately I didn't pay good enough attention to my notes, so I have three surviving squadmates instead of two. And I forgot that I didn't need to send Dr. Chakwas and escort, so she's still hanging around. But it's bad enough I guess.

[kotora]

What does it take to get people to die? Garrus died on my Xbox save while holding off those swarmy things while the circumstances were pretty much the same (did just as much loyalty missions and didn't even get all the ship upgrades)

[Jessweeee♪]

There are quite a few factors. Getting everyone to live is simple enough by just following a few guidelines and choosing the "correct" people for all tasks. In your case, you probably chose someone other than Jack or Samara to do the biotic barrier. Not choosing one of them (or choosing an unloyal Jack/Samara) will have one of your squadmates taken by the swarm, and Garrus has high priority on that particular list.


If you're interested in the details, this is pretty helpful. Obviously spoilery:

Choose Language | BioWare Social Network (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/2933016)

[kotora]

That's a pretty helpful guide. Now I just have to decide if I'm gonna redo the final mission. I feel like it would make for a less authentic role playing feel if I just loaded up my save and made bad tactical decisions.

[Iceglow]

Wrex gets all angry at something and you have the choice to put him down or talk him out of it. Honestly he didn't seem that angry to me when i played it so I don't know why you'd have to shoot him. But if you don't have a ME1 save file it just makes your ME2 start off as if they went renegade. If you save him in 1 then he's the leader of the Krogan in 2.

EDIT BY BoB: spoiler tags are better than just saying "SPOILER" :p

Ok lets actually correct this badly spoilered spoiler...

Wrex is Krogan, (duh) well the Krogan once threatened to overwhelm the citadel council. The Citadel Council had relied upon the Krogan to reduce a fast breeding, highly aggressive insectile race called the Rachni to rubble. However much like the old story of the woman who got the spider to swallow the fly, the Krogan end up expanding rapidly, especially considering their own genetic disposition towards lizards where a single female Krogan can birth thousands of babies over her lifetime (some 400+ years if not killed in battle in ME terms) as a response to the new threat of a Krogan domination of the council space the council utilize a biological weapon created by the Salarians and have it distributed by the Turian fleets in what was to be the end of a brutal and bloody war called the Krogan Rebellions. The biological weapon known as the Genophage doesn't render the Krogan impotent or infertile what it does is merely brings their rate of reproduction back to a pre-industrial rate. Meaning in a clutch of thousands a handful will survive to adulthood and even then the Krogan have a disposition towards males. [sources for information: ME1 Codex entries, ME2 Mordin's history, he worked on a modification to the Genophage during his time with the STG to keep it working, as he said Genocide is wrong and was not necessary, control was.]

In Mass Effect on the planet Virmire, where either Kaidan Alenko or Ashley Williams will also die, Shepherd discovers that Saren has a cloning facility which can if not eradicate/cure the Genophage bypass it entirely by churning out vat grown adult, genetic clones of Krogans. Either way it spells bad news for the Council controlled space and especially the Turians and Salarians who invented and distributed the Genophage weapon as Krogans are likely to want revenge. Shepherd decides this facility must be destroyed at all costs. Wrex however knowing that his species will become extinct at the current rate of their desire, no their need to fight attempts to stop Shepherd. If Shepherd has enough renegade or paragon stats then you can talk Wrex down from blasting you point blank with his shotgun. If however Shepherd is renegade but doesn't have the renegade stats required to force Wrex to back down he will fight Wrex and Wrex will die. If Shepherd is paragon then whilst he tries to talk down the furious yet determined Wrex to no avail will be saved by Ashley Williams striding in putting a pistol round through Wrex's face also killing him. (character who saves Shepherd may be modified by the relationship Shepherd has, however on the times I have done this only Ashley has saved him)

Wrex's paragon/renegade challenge requires a minimum 75% of either one to select. This is if I remember correctly the highest requirement of any challenge for speech in the entire first game. However considering the player has at this point had the chance to explore the galaxy on sub quests/play through the storyline on Eden Prime, The Citadel, Ferros, Noveria and Therum. The player should have enough points to select it. Success is all but assured if the player spends time talking to Wrex between planetfalls/missions he will eventually reveal a personal mission to retrieve his ancestral clan/family armour. Performing this mission will allow the player to pass the challenge with 75.1% renegade/paragon points. Should the player ignore this mission it is likely even with the required renegade or paragon points the player will fail and Wrex will join Kaidan or Ashley in the casualties list.

That is how you spoil the thing properly :P

Oh and as for Male/Female Ashley/Kaidan survival for ME2 new characters, I'll look in to that at some point won't take long to find out just a few hours. However it does appear that the main parts of the storyline are taken from the Renegade's point of view of the galaxy, well at least thats how female, spacer and ruthless turns out though thinking on it more I'm thinking the renegade story set up was kind of determined by my own personal claim to fame.

[Freya]

I didn't think Jess wanted tons of details to go through, if she wanted that i'm sure she'd just play the first game. But thanks for putting the effort into typing all that out. I'm sure someone will read it :D

[Jessweeee♪]

I was just watching someone else play and Legion did the coolest thing! Shepard was on his way to all of his favorite stores on the Citadel when Legion started beat boxing while doing the robot.

[kotora]

I always kept Legion in my party ever since I got him because he has the best one-liners. Apparently they had some extra lines scripted for him in missions that take place before the one with the Reaper IFF, which can be heard if you haxx the game. Maybe I will in another playthrough before ME3 comes out.