Linearity!

[Yar]

Okay so ever since around XIII's release (and even before), there has been concerns about the linearity in the Final Fantasy series.

Now, to a degree they all are linear. That is how JRPGs work. There is greater focus on telling the story than there is "do what you want and see what happens". But! There is a way to do it right, and a way to do it wrong in my opinion.

XIII was a terrible way to do this in my opinion. It's not just that the game is linear in story and progression, it's that the maps are line segments. You go from point A to point B, without much anywhere else to go. You travel from one predetermined battle to the next. You simply keep moving forward. And what's even worse is the game caps your levels and condescendingly bars you from making decisions such as who your party leader should be, at least for the first twenty-four hours. That is too long if you ask me.

The linearity of this game took away from this title too much in my opinion. It turned into a movie you watch for 4 minutes, and play for a minute. Any of your own thoughts about how to play the game are basically ignored; you have no choice but to let the game make decisions for you. You only control one third of your party for crying out loud.

On the opposite side of the spectrum is X-2. While it claims to be non-linear, there still is some linearity as far as story progression through its 5 chapters. The problem with too much freedom is a weakened story (but that is not the only thing wrong with the story...), and possibly a sense of "well where do I go now?" This second can be a con to some, but others, like myself, see this as something good. Finding it out for yourself can be really fun.

I think what is most important about any game is that even if the story is linear, there have to be breaks in the plot for adventure or experimentation. Linearity has worked in the past. In fact, the great stories have brought most of us to the series, and they all were linear. In my opinion, it all comes down to how well it can be executed. Giving me a straight corridor with set battle makes me feel like the producers of the game think I cannot possibly complete a game that would be even the slightest bit more challenging. A game that makes me feel like an idiot rather than one that makes me feel like I'm having fun is just irritating.

So, what do you guys think?

[NeoCracker]

It's not so much a problem with Linearity in XIII so much as it is just atrocious level design.

And by that I mean my god is it bad level design.

And by not letting you back track to earlier areas as other FF have done wasn't really a bad Idea, as it played well into the plot of the game. It wouldn't make much sense if you could just up and waltz back to the ice plane area after all, not given the conditions.

[Remon]

What does FF13 have anything to do with Final Fantasy? :/
There's no need to be concerned about the linearity of Final Fantasy games :P

[Bolivar]

Yeah IDK before we just got a terrible FF, the hipster/jock gamer argument was that FF was too linear. They nearly all are for the most part. But the most linear game before XIII, X, did a great way of hiding it to me. I just didn't realize because the game was very well paced. I can't put my finger on it, but in XIII it's just obvious you're going down corridors. I really didn't like that one spiral tower where they essentially mark on your map the next one, showing you the order you're supposed to touch the statues and defeating the whole purpose of the puzzle.

I wouldn't have minded it too much if they had at least kept some of the more traditional JRPG staples.

[Jessweeee♪]

Maybe I'm just odd like that, but typically the more linear a game is, the more I end up liking it. FFXII became one of my favorites after I had finished it a few times, but the first time around I wasn't really into the story. I forgot what was going on between cutscenes because there was just too much to do. As fun as the gameplay might be, I play JRPGs for their stories, and if a game is linear to the max in order to improve story telling, then alrighty!

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm just going to post my response in the "FF direction" thread cause it pretty much touches on this subject...


I don't feel there is anything wrong with random battles but then again I never cared. I've seen both handled awful so as long as you avoid that its good.

I feel NeoCracker pretty much hit this on the head, the issue with XIII's linearity is that its freaking obvious and the only choice is going forward. In reality the only true options the player is given in the game is having to manually upgrade the stats and choosing A.I. scripts for the battles. There is no exploration, there are no minigames, no optional dungeons or boss fight... nothing until you get to Pulse

By the time you get to Pulse most people are bored and frustrated with the game. Past FF titles were not this bad. Sure the series as a whole is mostly linear but not to the extent that most people claim it to be. Its possible to go out of order and skip sections of the game in FFI and III. IV and V both had several locations and dungeons that were completely optional, VI's entire second act is left to the player to choose what order the events transpire, VII had mini-games and a few optional areas to shake up its linear design and both VIII and IX have quite a bit of optional content to explore if you actually just stop for a moment and get off the ride known as the "plot" and just looked around a little bit. So I would argue that while the storylines for most of the FFs are linear and set in stone, I would argue the gameplay isn't and that's what's missing from XIII.

This isn't about creating options to let the player really mold the story and cast to their liking. This is just about being able to stop the plot occasionally and blow off some steam elsewhere in the game world. To be able to let the player feel like they have a bit of control and let them actually get out there and see the world for themselves instead of having the plot spoon feed them content. It doesn't have to be extensive freedom, I felt Chrono Trigger itself hit a major sweet spot in terms of telling a great linear story while still maintaining a semi-non-linear gameplay approach. The story doesn't really suffer from being broken up in the second half and left to the players discretion to tie up all its loose ends, its incredibly well done in comparison to FFVI, which did this idea first. The minor tweaks it does to the game's two major endings are enough to make players feel satisfied with bringing choice into the storyline. This is the title I feel SE should follow in terms of direction for gameplay content. A happy medium for both sides that want a great story and others who would like to stretch their legs a bit.

Of anything I feel SE just needs another visionary for the company. I feel Kitase has been getting by on the talents of others and now that they are either leaving, or working on their own projects; it is obvious he's not the visionary, people claim him to be. Nomura sounds tired of being relied on and I still get this nagging feeling his days with SE are numbered. I still foresee him going freelance in the next decade so h can pursue his own ideas while still being able to gain access to KH. Motomu is a hack and everyone else feels more comfortable not being in the spot light. SE just doesn't have a visionary anymore, its more corporate now, so I don't see FF ever being able to reclaim its glory days again unless they get a miracle and some new person steps up and takes the creative reins of the company and pushes it back into an artistic direction.

[ShinGundam]

Motomu is a hack and everyone else feels more comfortable not being in the spot light.
That guy need to die in fire made of *****. No joke, i even twitted to Yoichi Wada about that miserable pile of *****. I hope he will be axed ASAP.

[DMKA]

I love linear games. I want a strong story with as little interruption as possible and then just give me a big area and let me run around and do whatever the hell at endgame. FFXIII had the right idea, it just took it to a ridiculous extreme. They really needed to throw something in at other parts of the game to give you the option of breaking monotiny.

I wouldn't mind another FF like FFX. Give me plenty of sidequests at the end while giving me a nice assortment of minigames and giving me a strong story that's constantly moving all the while giving me the option to return to the majority of the areas I've been PLUS a nice secret area or two full of really strong stuff.

I know I'm in the minority but I like linearity in my games. I just can't find the appeal of games like Fable or Oblivion where you're (insert name, gender and class here) and you never talk and you just freeroam all over the place but then the story and characters are so shallow and short that it's more of an afterthought and something to do if you feel like it. I just can't get into them and I'm rather saddened that RPGs (or whatever you wish to call the genre that Final Fantasy games fall into) like FF and Suikoden have all but perished in favor of things like the Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect.

[Del Murder]

I agree with a lot of what Yars said.

I don't mind linear games. In fact I infinitely prefer them to the wide open worlds of games like GTA. The problem with FFXIII was, as many have said, the path you took was literally a straight line. Run down this corridor, get a cut scene, fight a boss. Repeat. There was absolutely nothing else you could possibly do in that game pre-chapter 11 except progress the story. I like sidequests. I like intricate caves with branching layers. I like (limited) exploration to discover hidden areas. All as an aside to the main story which is directly in front of you. FFXIII had none of that until the very end, and even then it was just boring old mark hunting.

[Flying Arrow]

Okay so ever since around XIII's release (and even before), there has been concerns about the linearity in the Final Fantasy series.

Now, to a degree they all are linear. That is how JRPGs work. There is greater focus on telling the story than there is "do what you want and see what happens". But! There is a way to do it right, and a way to do it wrong in my opinion.

XIII was a terrible way to do this in my opinion. It's not just that the game is linear in story and progression, it's that the maps are line segments.



Nail on the head. The linearity criticism is generally a dubious one but in this case it is spot-on. I've noticed a lot of people lately doing some thoughtless retro-tossing of this 'criticism' at the old games and it's just stupid. Linearity in terms of story and area progression is not a flaw - in fact, it was one of Square's resounding strengths back when they put effort into designing a game and its artwork. XIII is an outright straight line with a generic over-the-shoulder camera looking ahead always. With nothing remarkable or engaging about the environments, the only thing one can do is hold up on the analog stick until the end. Awful.



And by not letting you back track to earlier areas as other FF have done wasn't really a bad Idea, as it played well into the plot of the game. It wouldn't make much sense if you could just up and waltz back to the ice plane area after all, not given the conditions.

I always found it to be an unforgivable sin when RPGs would lock players out of locations at the end-game. VIII and IX did this and it really soured me. I love post-game exploring or just visiting old locales to take in their vibe. With XIII, there's no reason why players should be locked out of past locations. SE are in charge of the plot; they could have concocted something - anything - to justify some late-game exploring. It definitely would have made for a more interesting game.

[VeloZer0]

I always found it to be an unforgivable sin when RPGs would lock players out of locations at the end-game. VIII and IX did this and it really soured me.
I actually quit playing FF8 outright when I found I couldn't get back in the towns.

[Yar]

I always found it to be an unforgivable sin when RPGs would lock players out of locations at the end-game. VIII and IX did this and it really soured me.
I actually quit playing FF8 outright when I found I couldn't get back in the towns.That wouldn't have made sense with the plot at all though, if you could go back. If you had multiple save files, there wouldn't be much of a problem.

[VeloZer0]

IMO if the games plot forces you to make game design decisions that lower the enjoyment of the game, then the plot is holding the game back not moving it forward, and thus not an appropriate plot for that style of video game. Especially when all they do is put a ring of lights around the towns and don't explain any of it.

And making different saves at every location you visit for every game you play on the off chance you can't go back? That is a completely absurd rationalization. Doable if you are on a second playthough or are forewarned, but to imply people should be taking it as a routine preventative measure in games is ludicrous.

[Yar]

IMO if the games plot forces you to make game design decisions that lower the enjoyment of the game, then the plot is holding the game back not moving it forward, and thus not an appropriate plot for that style of video game. Especially when all they do is put a ring of lights around the towns and don't explain any of it.

In Final Fantasy VI, the World of Balance cannot be reached once you are in the World of Ruin. I don't think it's plot is held back at all by this incident.


And making different saves at every location you visit for every game you play on the off chance you can't go back? That is a completely absurd rationalization. Doable if you are on a second playthough or are forewarned, but to imply people should be taking it as a routine preventative measure in games is ludicrous.

If you're playing through a game on just one save file, then you're doing it wrong.

I'm not saying you save to a brand new slot every time the plot progresses. What I think everyone should do is use 2 or 3 save slots. Save to slot 1 the first time you save. Then slot 2 the next time, and then slot 3. Then start over again at slot 1. Odds are, you won't use your oldest save, but it's there if you need it.

And you should always have a save outside the last dungeon. That's for every Final Fantasy.

[G13]

Come on, really? Ludicrous? That's a strong word. I use more than one slot in every FF just in case I did something wrong so I can go back and fix it. There's nothing ludicrous about wanting to get the most out of a game's story.

[VeloZer0]

For a developer to expect their audience to do that is ludicrous. I'm not saying it is ludicrous for a player to do, but that it should not be expected.

If a game designer is counting on me to save a whole ton of copies then I should be told this somehow.

[G13]

As far as I know no one said anything about developers expecting you do play that way. It was Justin's opinion that people should have multiple saves.

[VeloZer0]

I felt it was inferred where I stated it was a bad development practice to make zones un-re visitable, and I was instructed I was doing it wrong. If I'm doing it wrong that supposes there is a right way to do it :)

[Wolf Kanno]

Personally... I don't feel like VIII really did a great job utilizing its towns beyond eye candy to warrant going back to them, so having them unreachable was never a big deal for me cause I stopped revisiting them by disc 2 when I realized I wasn't going to find anything meaningful there. :p


Back on topic...

I feel for the most part we're having some kind of confusion on what we mean when we cry foul on linearity. Like Yars points out, the problem with XIII is not that its plot doesn't branch off to different directions and the player has to make sad moral choices to access these new avenues (really its problem with its story is that it sucks...) but the fact that the gameplay is a bore and feels more like a chore if I'm allowed to be Suessical...

I feel that's what most of us are looking for is just a game that actually has content. A little exploration, a few people to chat up, some minor quests that don't open up at the games 11th hour, a few mini-games that are actually fun; basically content. The issue with the linearity of XIII is that SE fails to realize that an RPG is the sum of its parts. Story and combat definetly have preference but players also expect a little story immersion by talking to stupid NPCs or being given the choice to explore an occasional optional area, or at the very least do something besides battling and watching cutscenes.

Most of us would be happy if SE felt obligated to make the games world feel like VII or IX 's design in terms of just stuff to do and places to explore as opposed to trying to streamline the RPG elements so the story and combat can stand out. No offense to SE but their are a ton of JRPGs that have better battle systems and plots than the FF series, but very few of them in the past had the ability to deliver a full package like Square use to. SE doesn't have to make a game like the old ones to make fans happy but they do need to wake up and realize that some of those past titles had underlining mechanics and flow that made them so beloved.

[Slothy]

In Final Fantasy VI, the World of Balance cannot be reached once you are in the World of Ruin. I don't think it's plot is held back at all by this incident.

Transitioning to the world of ruin doesn't lock you out of every area in the game aside from the final dungeon. In fact, I can only think of a few things you can't revisit there, but they're usually places you would have little to no reason to revisit, and a lot of new locations open up as a result of the transition. Pretty much the opposite of what happens in FFVIII.

[Mirage]

Unlinearity and a strong storyline aren't mutually exclusive. Just look at mass effect!

It's no problem to have plenty of side quests or minigames sticking out of a staight line of a story.

[Rocket Edge]

I've said it before, but FFXIII is the most boring game I have ever played. It was an insult to my intelligence.