The Perfect Tactics

[Hollycat]

what components of the tactics and tactics advance games do you think could be combined to make the perfect tactics?


I like:
the different races of advance- except the bangaa, never used them, but have every race be able to go to every job.
the ability learning system of WOTL- much better than advance
the map of WOTL- no messing with placing things
the ability to control creatures- really neat, but they need to be able to learn abilities too
the missions in advance- kinda neat, except the mission items
decaying units in WOTL- the jagd things in advance were just frustrating, but being able to loot dead enemies is great

I would rather not see:
clan wars.- ...
roving units- really irritating
Judges- really really dumb, especially when you get two conflicting laws such as dont hurt animals, and hurting animals is good, and sometimes itll be a battle against only animals, and you can't run.
[angry face]
a main character who is a blonde kid with a pony tail. please no more ramza- marshe clones
... thats all I can think of


How about you

[ShunNakamura]

Could we also pull ideas from the Tactics Ogre Games? I will assume so.

Things I like -

Spell casting Charge Times - However, some spells should have no delay in my mind. But of course these would either be uber weak spells or very very rare and high level spells.
JP Ability Learning - Though perhaps not completely free form like it was in regular tactics. Mix it up with natural learning and learning from weapons/armor/items. That would be interesting.
Fixed Map - Placing cities and places was just weird in my book.
Male/Female/Indistinct - Just male or female is a bit dull in my book. But some races and monsters may very well not have 'gender' as we humans define it.
Various Races - Just humans are boring
Shared Classes - While Male/Female and Human vs other could have some unique classes I think mostly they should have similar classes.
Race Growth - If memory serves different races sometimes have the same class and different growth rates. Rather than incorporate it into the class itself I would rather the race just gives a bonus(and negative if necessary to keep it balanced) itself upon level up.
Controlling Monsters - ^Ditto^ to various races
Monster Classes - like in Tactics Ogre. Monsters can can access to different 'classes' of their kind. Though for the most part they didn't go far enough. Dragons tend to be the only ones to branch.
Monster learning abilities like Humanoids - Tactics Ogre does this and I don't see why it shouldn't be done.
Separate Down and Up Values - In Tactics Ogre it is in general easier to go down then up. I don't recall FFT differentiating that, but I think it should. So something like Move - X|Climb - X|Jump - X. Where climb is going up elevation and Jump is jumping down. Jump could also effect jumping over gaps. Higher jump better gap bridging ability.
Tactics Ogre Let us Cling Together Stats - I just like having such stats. HP, MP, Str, Vit, Int, Men, Agi, Dex, Luk. Covers everything and makes things interesting. Though it would be need tweaked for balance. AGI is simply boss since it determines turn order and evasion.
Final Fantasy Tactics Evasion - Mixing a base evasion rate in with TO's stat mechanics could be interesting. Though it would need tweaked for balance(by decreasing AGI's effect you would be tweaking this and the speed imbalance by a bit).
Brave and Faith System - Not exactly as it was, but I found the concept interesting interesting.
Item Weights - From Tactics Ogre. Heavily weighting down units can spell disaster. TO went to far, but the basic idea is nice. Though I would have it only affect turn order/evasion, not hit rate as well, most armor was built to not interfere with your ability to swing accurately. And that would be the heaviest stuff you can equip.
Character Elements and Terrain/Weather affecting elements - TO again, though weather also affected spells in FFT. Zodiac was interesting and all, but I prefer a simpler elemental basis. Also TO gives bonuses for using spells/weapons that have your element. Which is boss!
Class Preferred Weapon - TO again. Equip the preferred weapon and get an offensive boost compared to other weapons. However, keep the equip able restrictions like in Tactics. In TO you can put anything on anyone but the large monster classes who can only hold items. I do like such restrictions as long as they aren't too heavy handed.
Definitely have equip able abilities like in Tactics. I so miss that whenever I play TO, so it is tough to balance and introduces all sorts of mayhem. But mayhem is good.
OT's Physical/Elemental Res - I like this as well as the way armor effects it.
FFT's Elemental Absorb/cancel - Being able to absorb/cancel elements is nice!


That is a start on what I would want. As for what I don't want to see.

Laws - Uggh. . . I wouldn't mind it if there were consequences for some actions like in the Ogre games. But it should be constant not random willy nilly. Basically in Ogre Battle:MOTBQ killing lower level units can lower your alignment as can killing goody classes like knights, etc. That was interesting, if very annoying. Some variant of the two could be bearable, but I don't find it too necessary.
Class restrictions based on alignment/stats - I prefer FFT's class progression. Though I like that ogre battle tells you the requirements in game via select once you have seen the class.
Free-reign JP ability purchase - Skipping the Jumps/Charges for example. Having abilities require prior ones would be much better.
Tactics Ogre's annoying counter scheme- I prefer the way FFT handled counters in pretty much all aspects.


Probably more but this post is long enough.

[Hollycat]

you are a visionary

[Roogle]

I would be content with any sequel to Final Fantasy Tactics with a story as serious as the original.

I spend some time checking on the Final Fantasy Tactics hacking community (http://www.ffhacktics.com) occasionally to see their progress in creating new and viable Final Fantasy Tactics games. I think that some of the people in the community would do a better job than some of the latest releases I have seen in the Ivalice Alliance.

[ShunNakamura]

I would be content with any sequel to Final Fantasy Tactics with a story as serious as the original.

I spend some time checking on the Final Fantasy Tactics hacking community (http://www.ffhacktics.com) occasionally to see their progress in creating new and viable Final Fantasy Tactics games. I think that some of the people in the community would do a better job than some of the latest releases I have seen in the Ivalice Alliance.

I always like new storylines gameplay in my favorite games :d. Part of the reason Age of Wonders series is such a great game from my standpoint.

Oh, and I should note that Age of Wonders I and II have some GREAT tactical combat. If I could pull from that as well. . . lets just say I would pull a lot of the base mechanics from it. Such as not using a square grid for battlefields. And having penalties to counter attacks(so one super unit can't pawn an entire super sized army of more than 20 units. . . well at least in II). However, even better would be something similar to Vanguard Bandits countering system. And I certainly wouldn't bring out Wonders's move all units at once deal(I like speed counters/weight times!)

Of course by that point it likely wouldn't be recognizable as a Final Fantasy Tactics game anymore :D. Or is the 'setting' of final fantasy enough to pull that off?

[Remon]

I would like an official Ivalice timeline -.-

[Skyblade]

what components of the tactics and tactics advance games do you think could be combined to make the perfect tactics?


I like:
the different races of advance- except the bangaa, never used them, but have every race be able to go to every job.
the ability learning system of WOTL- much better than advance
the map of WOTL- no messing with placing things
the ability to control creatures- really neat, but they need to be able to learn abilities too
the missions in advance- kinda neat, except the mission items
decaying units in WOTL- the jagd things in advance were just frustrating, but being able to loot dead enemies is great

I would rather not see:
clan wars.- ...
roving units- really irritating
Judges- really really dumb, especially when you get two conflicting laws such as dont hurt animals, and hurting animals is good, and sometimes itll be a battle against only animals, and you can't run.
[angry face]
a main character who is a blonde kid with a pony tail. please no more ramza- marshe clones
... thats all I can think of


How about you

Most of your problems were actually addressed in FFTA2. While the levelling ability system stayed (thank goodness, the one huge point I disagreed with you on was the FFT ability/job system, which I think was horrible), the others went away. No more Clan Wars, no more roving units, no more placing areas on the map, and the main character does not look like Marshe. Mission items also went away, streamlining the mission process somewhat. And laws became mostly an added bonus. You are almost never forced to follow them, instead they are just a way to get extra items and keep the ability to revive units. Further, each engagement has its own specially-designed law, some of which are designed to make keeping the law bonus very difficult, yes, but none of which are impossible.

Personally, I would just steal most of what we had in FFTA2. My only real problem was the lack of development for the new races, and the truncated story. I loved the depth and volume of the sidequests, I love the new bazaar/loot system, and I loved the way the judges worked now.

[Wolf Kanno]

I think you're the only person I know Skyblade, who prefers FFTA's leveling system over FFTactics. :p

[Skyblade]

FFT's system was ridiculous. FFTA's progressed smoothly as you levelled your characters and fought through battles. For FFT, to get any decent progression at all you had to build particular setups and specific battles to farm AP. It was cumbersome, inelegant, annoying, slow, and unbalanced.

I'm not saying that the FFTA system (which was lifted part and parcel from FFIX) is perfect. The tie-in to the weapon system gave several problems in the original where certain weapons (and hence, certain abilities) would be hard to find, but the bazaar system in FFTA2 fixed a lot of that, giving you the ability to aim for particular items to unlock. And the fact that you need particular items for the more powerful abilities meant that there was actually character progression and balance, something FFT was extremely lacking in.

[Wolf Kanno]

More like being forced to jump to other classes that you may not have used cause it will be hours before the items needed to get the next set of skills become available or the creature with the loot needed for the bazaar becomes available cause its not the proper season. It doesn't help that a good chunk of the starting abilities are pretty damn crappy so you have to keep waiting around to acquire the items that actually have the relevant skills becomes available. I spent more time with a guide trying to obtain everything in TA2 so I can finally build the party I wanted, than I ever did in Tactics.

Yeah, it's just so much better than actual having free reign to choose what abilities you needed and being able to skip over the riff raff and just level the jobs to the point you need. Tactics' system is far more flexible and more user friendly than TA's ever was cause you're constantly at the mercy of when the game decides to let items and materials become available.

I heavily dislike TA's lack of control and I genuinely never found the classes to be as balance or as good as FFT's. I hate finally unlocking a great class like Paladin and only having access to cheap ass skills I wouldn't use even if I was just feeling jolly that day, and I especially hated farming materials for the weapons in the bazaar, cause it required me to constantly be referencing a guide. I have yet to play a TA title and actually master a job cause a third of the equipment is a pain in the ass to acquire. I've clocked more time into both TA titles than I did in FFT and I was still able to actually get Ramza and a few others to master the classes in half the time I've spent in TA series to get 2/3rds of the way there. So this whole "its faster and more balanced and progresses better" is bull:bou::bou::bou::bou: if you ask me. I've yet to play a TA game and fully build the party I wanted when I wanted cause I'm constantly waiting for the game to throw me a freaking bone.

While the bazaar system fixes the randomness of the first game, it trades it with a huge task of farming materials and missions which can sometimes take awhile when seasons get in the way or you're waiting for a mission to become available again. So in essence you're back to FFT where you're farming for JP except at least you get results faster and more consistent.