quick question- possible spoilers

[Marky Tee]

is Barthandelus the same entity as Lindzei?
i dont have time right now but will explain my reasoning for thinking it could be a possibility later :p

[Wolf Kanno]

The game never directly states it, but most of the supplement materials (Ultimanias, Strategy Guides, etc...) pretty much say so.

[Skyblade]

I thought the Analects almost explicitly stated that this was not the case.


Analect VIII: Fell Lindzei
As our fal'Cie are the children of Hallowed Pulse, so are the fal'Cie who lurk within Cocoon the brood of Lindzei. But all gods are not alike. Lindzei is cunning and false; sovereign to snakes and fiends; an anathema to be abhorred. Cocoon fal'Cie are of Fell Lindzei's line, yet that did not spare them. They were betrayed all the same; left orphans when their Succubus fled this earthly realm.

This states the the Cocoon fal'Cie (which would include Barthandelus) were the children of Lindzei and were abandoned by Lindzei (the Succubus) who fled the earthly plain, much as Pulse had.

I thought the Analects made it fairly clear that there were a trio of gods (Pulse, Etro, and Lindzei) who were above the fal'Cie, and were the divinities who left the mortal realm.

[Wolf Kanno]

The Analects don't mention the gods beyond the Maker and Lindzei. Etro first got mentioned in Versus XIII. The full creation story of XIII was actually revealed recently, and it's here we're first introduced to the the three "gods".

I haven't unlocked Analect VIII yet but I could have sworn the story analysis section of the XIII guide said that it was possible that Barthandelus and Lindzei were the same being, and the truth had been covered up by time. Then again, I'm probably wrong and just mentioning what I skimmed through and missed a fact or two. Whatever.

[Marky Tee]

hmm it's all very confusing to me lol
ok so from what i gather from reading the story on the final fantasy wiki it is as follows?

there are 3 gods ( though they are sometimes refered to as fal'cie ) Pulse, Lindzei and Etro
they were all created by another god Buniberzei, who had just defeated his mother, the god Muin

so which is the Maker who Barthandalus wishes to bring back then?
Buniberzei since he created the other gods?
or would both Pulse and Lindzei be considered as the Maker too since they created the worlds of Pulse and Cocoon and have both also gone away to the world of the dead?

this is goin to take a few read throughs i think lol

[Skyblade]

The Analects don't mention the gods beyond the Maker and Lindzei. Etro first got mentioned in Versus XIII. The full creation story of XIII was actually revealed recently, and it's here we're first introduced to the the three "gods".

I haven't unlocked Analect VIII yet but I could have sworn the story analysis section of the XIII guide said that it was possible that Barthandelus and Lindzei were the same being, and the truth had been covered up by time. Then again, I'm probably wrong and just mentioning what I skimmed through and missed a fact or two. Whatever.

Etro is mentioned by name in the final Analect, Fabula Nova Crystallis.


Analect XIII: Fabula Nova Crystallis

Children of Hallowed Pulse scour earth, searching substance for the Door. Those of Fell Lindzei harvest souls, combing ether for the same. So have I seen.
The Door, once shut, was locked away, with despair its secret key; sacrifice, the one hope of seeing it unsealed.
When the twilight of the gods at last descends upon this world, what emerges from the unseeable expanse beyond that Door will be but music, and that devoid of words: the lamentations of the Goddess Etro, as She sobs Her song of grief.


-- Author unknown


She is also hinted at as the female deity who robbed Ragnarok of power during the War of Transgression, in Analect IX.


Analect IX: Her Providence

Her Providence sought nothing.
Her Providence made nothing.
She but looked on, silent in Her sorrow.
The Goddess pitied mortals, destined as they were to die, and so She deigned to intervene in the hour of their greatest peril. She averted cataclysm that was to be, and put to rest the ones who would have robbed so many of what time fate had ordained.
Her compassion did not end at this.
The Goddess pitied also those subjected to that fate of Focus, crueler still than death. To them She sent Her messengers, to deliver hope when all was lost.

-- Sermons of the seeress Paddra Nsu-Yeul

So, yes, the Analects point out the existence of Etro as a third deity.

[Wolf Kanno]

The more you learn, the more you don't care.

[Skyblade]

The more you learn, the more you don't care.

FFXIII summarized.

[Wolf Kanno]

Pretty much. ;)

[Roogle]

I guess the extra materials to the game support the existence of the actual deities, then? Where did they go, exactly?

The story is about the consequences of deities leaving behind Fal'Cie, allowing a conflict with humans to take place?

[Ouch!]

For answers to these questions that should have been in the first game, see FFXIII-2.

[VeloZer0]

Why play FF13-2 when you can just hold out for the Ultimania to have the definitive answer that overwrites the original material.

[DMKA]

The more you learn, the more you don't care.

FFXIII summarized.

Or any other JRPG, really.