Lord of the Instant Martial Training?

[Unbreakable Will]

I'm rewatching the LotR movies again, due to the recent chit chat on them, and I was wondering where the 'new' orcs made by Saruman learn to fight. Seems like a hole in the story to me, although I haven't read the books.
Now that I look at it, this seems like a dumb question but it's bugging me.

[Miriel]

The same places that the vampires in Buffy learned to fight. You crawl out of the ground and you just know.

[kotora]

a wizard did it

[Bunny]

They're bloodthirsty orcs. They are born with the knowledge of kicking ass.

[NorthernChaosGod]

They're bloodthirsty orcs. They are born with the knowledge of kicking ass.

This. They're bred from orcs and men to be better, it's in their blood.

[Hollycat]

What sick lady would mate with an orc, I mean most of them are missing body parts, do they even have dingalings. If I was a lady and a wizard told me I had to mate with an orc, Id commit suicide then and there.

[Unbreakable Will]

Once you go orc...

And I suppose inherent knowledge would make some sense :D

[Jiro]

They're bloodthirsty orcs. They are born with the knowledge of kicking ass.

This. They're bred from orcs and men to be better, it's in their blood.

Saruman states in film that they are part-orc part-goblin. A smurfed up hybrid that took the best of both worlds and then injected some 'roids for good measure. There's a whole lot of uncertainty about their exact origins though.

Also, there is a large period of time between Lurtz being "born" and them actually heading on down to Amon Hen. Training could have easily taken place, plus there's also the whole "bred as war machines" business. If you actually watch how they fight at Amon Hen though, you could argue they don't have any fighting style. I mean Boromir, rest his soul, smurfed up heaps of them while he had arrows in his chest. The only reason they're any good at all is because they're all beefed up and full of rage. RAGE.

Then, of course, at Helm's Deep they fight like real fighters which is easy because they had training. Plus beserkers. ANYWAY.

EDIT: There were half-orcs which came about due to Saruman breeding orcs with the wildmen of Dunland. Probably against their will, yah? But it's possible Saruman repeated this, but with the right mix of herbs and spices to create his Uruk Hai. Apparently he was following a "recipe" Sauron invented, which explains the nastiness and complete inversion of the half-orcs' traits.

[Hollycat]

orc porn


get that out of your head

[NorthernChaosGod]

Yeah, Jiro! :colbert:

[Jiro]

Whoa whoa whoa back up. You guys try and call yourselves "fans" and you've not got the stomach to consider the origins of one of the fiercest creatures in all of Middle Earth? fuck that noise, I will look at orc porn if it validates my position as a true fan

[NorthernChaosGod]

Oh, I meant that I was right about the Uruk-Hai

[Jiro]

...I stand by everything I said. Well that sure was awkward

[blackmage_nuke]

Orcs have the right to make love just like any other being. All they want is equal rights, no wonder they are lead astray by the promises of Sauron after their shunning from elves, hobbits, dwarves and men.

[Rantz]

Orcs can do whatever they want in private, just as long as they don't do it where I have to see it. And orcs getting married? It just isn't right.

[G13]

Uruk = Orc, hai = people or folk.

Sauron bred the original Uruk-hai. The ones that attacked at Amon Hen were of Saruman's special breeding. It's said in the books that he bred men and Orcs but he also added some resistances and abilities so maybe there was some magic involved. Saruman had a bunch of different crossbreeds running around.

The Silmarillion goes into detail about how Orcs used to be Elves. I won't go into a lot of detail but basically they were tortured and disfigured until they were made into the Orcs we see now. They still breed the same way, so why is it such an impossible or disgusting thought that the Uruk-hai could come about as a hybrid?

[Jiro]

They still breed the same way, so why is it such an impossible or disgusting thought that the Uruk-hai could come about as a hybrid?

Because they are ugly looking and sweaty/greasy/whatever. It's not sanitary dude. Plus, all that metal armour and :bou::bou::bou::bou:. :p

I do need to find The Silmarillion. There's too much information I don't have :(

[G13]

Ugly, sweaty, greasy guys get chicks all the time in everyday life. See: Julian.

[kotora]

Uruk = Orc, hai = people or folk.

Sauron bred the original Uruk-hai. The ones that attacked at Amon Hen were of Saruman's special breeding. It's said in the books that he bred men and Orcs but he also added some resistances and abilities so maybe there was some magic involved. Saruman had a bunch of different crossbreeds running around.

The Silmarillion goes into detail about how Orcs used to be Elves. I won't go into a lot of detail but basically they were tortured and disfigured until they were made into the Orcs we see now.

evolution does not work like that

[G13]

It does when it's fiction, bro. :greenie:

[Psychotic]

for the love of god

If we're going by movie canon, Uruk-Hai are a cross between Orcs and Goblin-Men, okay? Not Orcs and Men, and not Orcs and Goblins. I don't even get how you can breed an Orc and a Goblin to get a different creature anyway seeing as how they are exactly the same thing :colbert: Although I think in movie canon the smaller crawling creatures that attacked in Moria are Goblins, compared to the larger Orcs of Mordor, which I like :) Sort of like poodles and german shepherds - same species, different breeds. And I think in Tolkien, that is what Uruk-Hai are: A different breed of Orc. It's speculated that they might have a bit of Man in them but there's already plenty of Orc-Men running about and I'm pretty sure they're never portrayed as über-Orcs. From memory, a bunch of them hang out in Bree and come to smurf the Shire's :bou::bou::bou::bou: up in the Scouring. It's sort of like how there's three different breeds of Hobbit, and how the men of Gondor are different from the men of Rohan who are different from the men of Harad. And the ten billion species of Elves. Tolkien was big on that sort of thing.

I had hoped to stay out of this, to keep my non-nerdery in tact. I hate you all. :doublecolbert:

[G13]

Oh, we're going by movie canon? Yeah, Saruman even says they're of Orcs and Goblin Men.

Are you referring to the Orc-Men as not being uber Orcs, or the Uruk-hai? I was under the impression that that was what the Uruk-hai were, roided-up Orcs basically. That's how they're portrayed in the books. Even the ones in Mordor look down on Orcs because they're little wimps compared to them.

Also, I was wondering why you hadn't posted yet. :p You're the biggest Tolkien fan I know. You can't run away from your nerddom!

[Psychotic]

Yeah I meant Orc-Men clearly aren't über-Orcs as all they do is act like common thugs in the likes of Bree and the Shire. Oooooh! FRIGHTENING! Whereas the Uruk-Hai are, well, yeah. Orcs on 'roids.

My Tolkien nerdom kind of faded over the past couple of years tbh. LotR Conquest was to me what TFU2 was to you :whimper: And I miss Tavrobel. :(

[G13]

Oh my! TFU2 was an immeasurable amount of bull:bou::bou::bou::bou:. Conquest has been on my list, too... I must rethink this list of mine.

Oh man, this may be the only time I'd admit that I miss him too. This is the only subject I'd be happy that he insulted my intelligence in because it's actually an interesting subject.

[Rantz]

I read The Hobbit before LotR and I was wondering throughout what goblins really were. Then I read LotR and there were no goblins at all! So I looked it up and yeah I guess they're the same so I was like well why didn't he just say so. :( But I like Psy's interpretation better.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Ugly, sweaty, greasy guys get chicks all the time in everyday life. See: Julian.
And I just fucking repped you. :nonono:

[Hollycat]

according to gandalf in the hobbit there are: goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description.
also, apparently goblins can grow to well over the height of a man, with giant goblins such as bolg.
in the new hobbit movie, lenord nimoy plays smaug