Chrono Cross > Trigger?

[reinward]

idk... i played both for the first time within the last year and i liked cross a lot more. i thought it was superior in atmosphere, music (especially music), and story

id rank it as my 3rd favorite square game behind FFIX and FFX

what do you guys think? i didnt like trigger's art direction.

[Flying Arrow]

I consider them on completely different terms, generally. They both attempt to accomplish completely different things. Trigger is just a great JRPG - it does almost everything perfectly and is still probably the ideal game as far as the genre goes. It's flat out fun.

Cross is a completely different beast, though. It kind of plays out more like an adventure game. From what I can remember, the game world seems to be a lot more of a puzzle-box than Trigger's. I really like how the player can explore El Nido at his leisure, too. There's a lot to do and see and plenty to take in (the use of NPCs in this game is probably the best of any RPG past or present). A lot of people hate CC for various reasons, though. The battle system is probably the thing that turns most people off. The actual story-telling is also pretty awkwardly paced, too. None of these things put me off too much. I think it's one of the company's best games, actually - it's definitely their most ambitious in a lot of ways, which is what I always liked about Square's stuff from back then.

[VeloZer0]

I thought CC was exceedingly good with the exception of a rather weak ending.

The whole time devourer/schala (who has blond hair and is short now for some reason) thing just seemed so contrived. Also, having to use the Chrono Cross to get a decent ending was dumb, they could have implemented it so much better. a) make the non CC ending worthwhile and b) don't make the use of the Chrono Cross so hopelessly obscure.

But, as Flying Arrow says, they don't really compare to each other apples to apples.

[Flying Arrow]

b) don't make the use of the Chrono Cross so hopelessly obscure.

Talk about obscure. Was it even directly hinted at throughout the game? I know there are some very subtle clues, but I remember it being so subdued as to almost be unfair. I confess that my first time through the game when it was released I had to use a FAQ to understand what the hell I was supposed to be doing.

[VeloZer0]

I don't see how you were possibly expected to figure it out from the game, I was just guarding my words in case someone comes in and produces a decent hint I have somehow never found.

It wouldn't be so bad if you just got a slightly tweaked 'better' ending, but as it is now I regard the normal one as the bad ending and the CC one as the only one of any substance.

[Wolf Kanno]

I prefer CT, I just started playing through both games again and while CT has always surprised me for how well it's aged and how mature its story actually is hidden behind it's sillier elements. CC on the other hand, just feels flat out preachy at times about man and nature, and other times it goes off into weird psuedo-intellectual nonsense to make it seem more smart than it really is. You get some doozey of a speech from Harle after the Ft. Dragon incident.

I just find CT superior in every way. CC is not bad but its plot at times is kind of pretentious at times and other times can't carry its own weight cause CC has an incredibly weak cast of characters. I still feel like it's apples vs. oranges and I do appreciate Kato and Tanaka choosing to go in a different direction rather than re-hash CT. Yet, I kind of feel that Kato sometimes undermined his story and message by not being subtle at times, and because he never spent enough time really building a cast that could carry the story he tried to present. Fargo, Glenn, Karch, Korcha, and Kid are not nearly as well rounded and likable as Frog, Robo, Lucca, and Ayla.

CT also just had better gameplay, the CC tries too hard to incorporate Xenogears, FFVII, and CT's systems all together and just utterly fails to create a terribly engaging combat system. You'll stick to your two other fave characters, make sure everyone carries at least one of each element and you're good to go. Don't even get me started on how awkward and unintuitive the Summoning system was.

[blackmage_nuke]

There were far too many things about chrono cross which annoyed me.
The party wasnt big enough for a game with so many characters, the levelling system made it possible to reach lvl 99 and still be underleveled and didnt allow for grinding. The story while good didnt capture me as strongly as Chrono trigger. Possibly because there were so many characters it was hard to see how they individually relate to events in the main storyline. And not being able to collect every character on the first playthrough didnt help and it wouldve been nice if the double/triple tech system was implemented more often.

However I cant think of many complaints i can make about Chrono Trigger. I loved the story, loved the characters, loved the battle system and leveling system.

Oh and the main battle theme in cross was one of the weakest and most annoying Square battle themes.

[theundeadhero]

CT is far better for me.

A lot of things about CC annoyed me. I found the colorful happy backgrounds very annoying. The 3D characters of the PS1 era were nothing to be impressed with verses CT characters which look better in every way. The multiple choice choose your own party members was very poorly implemented and the story itself was mostly lame, with only a few peak points of interest. The music was also far too happy and cheerful most of the time, and while CT sporadically had that problem, it also made up for it with some really awesome midis.

[Roogle]

I would have liked Chrono Cross a lot more if it had only ten to twenty playable characters who have direct relevance to the storyline. This would have allowed the characters to be more diverse from a gameplay standpoint. I would have liked it even more if the story chose the party for the majority of the game.

[McLovin']

CT was better overall than CC but CC had a great atmosphere and just a fun world to explore. The story was definitely a headache but it was still cool and interesting. Chronopolis is one of my all time favorite dungeons.

[GhandiOwnsYou]

I would have liked Chrono Cross a lot more if it had only ten to twenty playable characters who have direct relevance to the storyline. This would have allowed the characters to be more diverse from a gameplay standpoint. I would have liked it even more if the story chose the party for the majority of the game.

Agreed, 200%. My biggest gripe with this game was that you collected so many of these potentially awesome characters, that essentially get left in the dust 2 minutes after you complete the quest. If they had grabbed 10 of them, and given you sufficient party space to rotate them through, it would have made me a lot happier. Honestly, even in most FF games I take 6 of the 8 and play with them, chalking up everyone else to an extra icon on my menu screen.

[Skyblade]

Chrono Trigger is the big weakness of Chrono Cross. Had Chrono Cross been designed as its own game, it would have stood up a lot better. As it was, it was designed in the shadow of Trigger, and it shows. Attempting to tie in a sequel while simultaneously moving as far away from the original as possible was just not a good design decision.

Had they set this in an entirely new world, built up completely different new mechanics and built up fully fleshed out and worthwhile characters, the game would have been better.


It probably would still have been nowhere near as good as Chrono Trigger, though, which remains probably the best game of all time.

[cloud_doll]

Definitely Trigger over Cross. The only thing I liked about Cross was seeing the characters from Trigger. Trigger was just awesome and fun and the musical score was incredible. I still play that game today.

[qwertysaur]

Chrono cross has some great lines. Like when Poshul thinks that Leena "Thpontaneouthry combuthts" :bigsmile:

Summoning with Red, Blue, Yellow and Green was really easy to use, just use the matching [color]field element with another character. Unfortunately there is no Whitefield or blackfield element though.

I like both games. :p

[Mercen-X]

I felt they each had something different to offer me. I'm biased toward games with pretty cutscenes though. I loved the opening sequence to Trigger.

[Flying Arrow]

I just finished the game, so I'll stick my mini-review here instead of creating a new thread.

I'll start out with what doesn't work:

Like Skyblade said, Trigger is the game's biggest weakness. Not really because it hampers the game's story itself (although it kind of does in parts), but because of the expectations that come with being a sequel. Like I said before, Trigger and Cross don't compare. Anyone who is keeping Trigger in the back of his mind while playing Cross is really just selling Cross short.

One more weakness: too many characters. From a gameplay standpoint, it does allow a ton of options for battle parties at any given time. I actually see what the dev team was going for here, in making everyone valuable (the game often talks about how everyone is special, how everyone makes up a single part of a whole, so it fits thematically in that way with even the local fisherman getting in on the action).

However, the huge number of potential party members usually ends up making the world feel both more alive and lifeless. Alive because there are just so many personalities and side-stories that make up the world of El Nido. Lifeless because it leads to some really disappointing logic failures. Example: Having Home Zappa and Another Karsh in the same party. Zappa obviously is looking for his son, not knowing he is dead, but is running alongside that son's alternate in your battle party. To get a scene between them, you actually have to bring Karsh to the smith's shop. I think it would have been neat to implement a kind of camp mechanic, where you can camp with your battle party anywhere on the overworld map (including in the boat, because I fucking love being on boats myself) and get some unique dialogue. This would take a nut-shriveling amount of writing and foresight though, so I can see why it didn't turn out this way. Shame, because then I could call this game a masterpiece.

What's good? Just about everything else. Seriously. The game is beautiful, and the world itself just as so much to do, so much to discover, and so many really great moments. At first, it's kind of overwhelming. By the end, you've seen so many stories, both happy and sad, that it's hard to not just smile. In most RPGs, events often feel too tied to the main characters, as if they are the only important people in the entire game world (minus the ancient awakening evil). El Nido is more like a living breathing world than almost any other, involving Serge in events, but usually as a by-stander. It also helps that lots of El Nido's side-stories are well-written. Silly, yes, but there is nearly an equal amount of absurdity and seriousness, just like... well, actual problems.

Because of this, the game rewards travel, exploration, and experimentation. Bringing certain characters to meet their doubles, or bringing significant others to meet someone they may have lost. Every time one of these mini dilemmas is figured out, you're treated to some more side-story that just fleshes out the game world. A lot of times you'll win someone's ultimate tech or something, but it's always a secondary reward to the resolution of some NPC or minor character's story. In CC, the player is always bringing people together, and it really is heartwarming. Some of my favourite optional moments: Orlha's twin, Van's poverty/wealth, Greco (short but neat), Skelly's homecoming, and the Dario sub-quest. All of these can be easily missed, but they nevertheless all reward you with unique dialogue, hidden scenes, or even whole new scenarios. This doesn't make me forgive the logic failures I've already mentioned, but this enormous amount of content just makes for satisfying and downright fun gameplay.

As for combat... I really like it. I like how the limited leveling maintains challenge and encourages strategy. Many boss fights are actually more intense than I remember. The turn-based stamina system is probably one of Square's finest, I think. What's even better, is the method of encounters. Not only are all enemies shown on screen (still a novelty in its day), but I think it even one-ups Chrono Trigger in that it makes nearly all of these encounters run-aroundable. Enemies showed up on screen in CT, but lots of times stepping on a certain pixel resulted in a staged battle, or areas weren't wide enough to detour a fight entirely. In CC, enemies rarely jump out and surprise you. When they do, it's frustrating but only because it's an unfair rarity. If one so chooses, one could probably fight fewer standard encounters than bosses over the course of the game (and this might even be including those admittedly annoying bits where one needs to clear all the enemies out of an area for whatever plot reason).

Final thoughts (I swear): There are some issues with CC, but I feel they are overshadowed by so much excellence that they can be easily endured. The game is worse for having them, but my playing experience with the game isn't very much lessened either. Bottomline is that CC is a lovingly-made game. It's more unique and ambitious than most other games I've played, which is probably why it absolutely sails over most people's heads. I'm not saying anyone has to enjoy a game like CC, but I at least think people should recognize and appreciate what it does well (a lot). Most gamers and reviewers, I think, are far too reductive in their judgments, and this is why CC has an unnecessarily bad rap among them. Me, I've probably unknowingly put more time into CC in my life than any other Square game, and even those Bethesda games that I have a guilty pleasure for (Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3). It's not my favourite game ever, but when I think about it... it might be.

Well, now I've just begun FF9 - the third of Square's year 2000 trilogy of fucking own (with the first being Vagrant Story). I'll be back in a month with my thoughts on that.

(Sorry all for the long post. I think I'm entitled to one every once in a while though. I mean, look at Wolf for god's sake. :jess:)

[Skyblade]

You aren't a mod, though, Flying Arrow. The text wall police will be visiting you shortly. :D

Enjoyable read, and I agree with a lot of it. It could have used a couple extra mechanics designed just to smooth things out (like the camp idea), but mostly, it was a swell game.

I just still feel that it was a poor decision to include it in the continuity of Trigger, give us constant reminders that it is in that same universe, while still working as much as possible to make an entirely unrelated game.

[Yar]

I preferred Chrono Cross. The battle system and element system were better imo. And I liked the story a bit more. :D

[LikeaLion]

I think I like Chrono Trigger slightly better. But, I found both very fun. They both have great music.

Ayla was a great CT character! Harley and Kidd were very cool and amusing characters for CC!

[Darth Cid]

"Chrono Cross > Trigger" = Blashemy

Simply put, no other explanation than that.

[Zwei]

I'll take Cross.

Better music, atmosphere, battle system... better everything, really. The only fault I see is that Chrono Cross needed a smaller cast of characters to focus on. But on the other hand, I do like the vast array of characters available to recruit, so I dunno.

[I Took the Red Pill]

I preferred Chrono Cross. I know I'm in the minority but:

http://thegoodjokes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/1277488480570-dumpfm-haydiroket-deal1.gif

[Del Murder]

I found CT to be the far better game. CC was a great game too but I didn't like the characters and story as much.

[Mercen-X]

Yeah, in CC, I suppose I didn't really connect well with the characters either... but I did like the character concepts for the most part. Serge, Kid, Harle, Lynx, Nikki being among my favorites. Well, I liked almost all of the concepts. There weren't all delivered terribly well though.

[edczxcvbnm]

I like Chrono Trigger better because it doesn't take itself so seriously so lets all join a root beer chugin' contest!

Having said that, I understand why people don't care for Cross in the same way that alot of people don't care for a Michael Bay film. The story is more about the event and the adventure more than the individual characters. Serge, Kid, Lynx and Harle are all very well developed but everyone else is just along for the ride and are not fleshed out because they do not play a significant role in the story. Some would say that this is a flaw but I say it is reality.

Not everyone on every adventure will play a significant role. I moved to a new house and signed a lease. My friends are just along to help me and the Mrs. move in. Sure we order pizza and everyone tells stories but that was about me and the Mrs. and not my friends even though they were there the whole time.

Not a great example but it is the best I could do off the top of my head. Sometimes friends are just along for the ride. People get caught up in the events of the times whether they like it or not. As much as I love Xenogears, I don't want to play through a story that large and involving all of the time and I actually appreciate the care free nature of Chrono Trigger and to a lesser extent, Chrono Cross.

Also, Chrono Cross has the best soundtrack hands down. Nothing can compete, especially in game where the same themes and songs are remixed to reflex the opposing world. Home World and Another World play off of each other with the distinct moods that each bring to the table. It is an ambitious soundtrack that hits on all marks without fail.

[Del Murder]

I wish things like root beer chugging contest were in today's RPGs more. I miss the whimsy in these games. It's too much 'grrr we must save the world srs business'.

[edczxcvbnm]

I think the only RPGs that capture the whimsy are the Tales of games now and days. Tales can be serious at times just like Trigger but there is plenty of whimsy to be had in those games.

[Greatermaximus]

Besides the cop outs.

- you can believe whatever you want about fiction.
- it can't be all things to all people.

There are some out there who don't understand why you think something is better. We can continue to discuss it hoping it changes their mind.

Though despite our best efforts on the subject, there'll be some we won't convince.

[felfenix]

I thought Trigger was more fun as a game, which is the real deal breaker to me. I can't bring myself to replay Cross. If they were both animes, instead of games, yeah, I'd probably like Cross way more than Trigger, but Cross is awful as a game.

[Rabbits on the Run]

I've always preferred Chrono Cross.

Chrono Trigger...I don't get the hype personally. It plays like your average RPG for the most part nowadays, and the story isn't even all that special. Maybe it's one of those things where if you played it first then you'll like it more things, like Star Wars.

Chrono Trigger is one of my favorite games of all time. I love the battle system and all of the characters. It's really fun to me for some reason. I don't mind that they don't all have the most well thought out background but then I love Suikoden and it's much worse about this.

[Zevinity]

I usually have trouble choosing favorites. But when it comes to video games, Chrono Trigger, without a doubt, is my favorite video game of all time. It has a certain charm that I'm still not able to describe. So when it comes down to the decision of which one is better, my answer is obvious. But this may change. The last time I played Chrono Crosss was about 10 years ago, when I was 11. I'm going to play it again soon and, since I'm older, I might appreciate it a little bit more. I may end up liking it more than Chrono Trigger.

[Bolivar]

Should've had a poll.