Don't judge a book by it's first ten chapters

[VeloZer0]

I am a firm believer that you don't have to fully beat a game to evaluate whether you like it or not. Forcing yourself through the last half of a game on the blind hope it will get better is pointless to require of someone.

That said, what games can you think of that changed significantly, for better or worse, at some point midway through?

[qwertysaur]

Final fantasy XIII. Chapter 11

[Raistlin]

FFXIII is really a great example of a game getting both better and worse in the latter half of the game. After chapter 9, the story went downhill fast, and dashed all my hopes for the game. But with chapter 11, the gameplay became much more interesting.

Another one for me is FF7. I think the first disc overall is really good, but shoddy writing makes the second and third discs very disappointing. They should have just ended it at Aeris's death and the ending would just be everyone dying.

[Shoeberto]

I don't really think the minor change of pace on Pulse was really enough to absolve FFXIII of its overall flow problems. The combat system was definitely the best part of the game but it wasn't enough to carry it considering how it faltered in most other aspects (particularly dumb story - even for an FF - and basically no sense of immersion).

In recent memory, a game that exemplified being a slow burner was Red Faction: Guerrilla. When it starts out, they throw the destruction mechanism at you, but it seems sort of gimmicky. It took a while for it to really click with me how well they designed the game around the tech, and how it's actually something that lends itself well to overall gameplay rather than being something tacked-on that they could use to promote the game. I think a Joystiq writer actually named it his GOTY at the time, which went against the other popular choices, but after playing it to completion I can understand. I'm really interested in seeing what the next game in the series will manage to deliver.

[The Man]

Agreed with FFVII. Star Ocean 3 is another obvious example, as the writers kind of pulled a bait-and-switch on us. The first half of the game was mostly a fairly intriguing medieval storyline, but by the end there was a fairly ridiculous plot twist that didn't really make much sense. Though, in its defence, it didn't really try to; it was pretty obviously done with its tongue firmly implanted in its cheek.

[Bunny]

Suikoden 2's storyline was utterly boring to me at the beginning of the game, enough so I basically felt the need to force myself to continue playing it. I don't exactly recall where my opinion changed but it took a complete 180 from yawn-fest to holy crap. I now consider it one of my favorite games ever.

On a similar but different vein altogether, Suikoden IV was really interesting at the beginning and then really boring towards the end. I still felt it was a solid game that doesn't get enough credit, but it definitely wasn't one of the best games ever and falls short of the mark when compared to the other entries in the series.

(Suikoden 3 was rocking the entire way through.)

Also I mostly always judge a book by its cover. It has worked for me so far and, by extension, more than a few members here. ;)

[Pete for President]

FFIX. Absolutely loved disc 1, but the majority of disc 2 and 3 felt like filler. It took some courage for me to get past those parts and finish the game.

Edit: mind that I've only picked up and played it last year.

Edit #2: Also Tenchu 3. Awesome missions at first, but about halfway through human enemies were replaced by zombies, demons, ghosts and... wooden robots. Shame!

[Old Manus]

Deus Ex is genius until it turns into a dungeon crawler 2/3rds of the way through.

[Slothy]

FFXIII is really a great example of a game getting both better and worse in the latter half of the game. After chapter 9, the story went downhill fast, and dashed all my hopes for the game. But with chapter 11, the gameplay became much more interesting.

I would actually say chapter 11 was the final nail in FFXIII's coffin. Actually it as long before that, but that chapter did nothing to redeem it for me. I hated the story, world and battle system up to that point, and even unlocking that last little bit of the battle system around that point didn't help. It's still one of the worst designed and least engaging battle systems I've ever seen. And fter an incredibly linear game they decided to try and destroy what pacing the game did have towards the end and open things up to a world that was utterly devoid of anything worth doing. Just run around exploring and hunting marks. It felt so pointless that even if my PS3 hadn't died I might have given up around here anyway.

As for the topic, I'l go with RE4. The gameplay was all right at first and the atmosphere created in the village at the start was great. Once you leave that village though the cool atmosphere the game has has long since passed and everything degenerates into a game of enter a new area, fight waves of enemies for a few minutes, enter a new area, fail at a quick time event (twice because they changed the button input the second time), fight waves of enemies, rinse and repeat. It was also not long after the village that the small annoyances built into the combat system really started to grate on my nerves. Had the game been 5-10 hours I may remember it as a decent enough experience. Instead I finished it at the 20 hour mark and vowed to never play it again.

Frankly, I don't think it's ever a good thing to keep playing a game hoping it gets better later on. After FFXIII I will never do that again because no game should take 5+ hours to get to the good stuff. If it does, it's a bad game, no matter how good it gets later on. Odds are you'll know inside of 1-2 hours if you really like something and it's good to listen to those instincts.

[Big D]

Metal Gear Solid 3 isn't uniformly excellent at the outset. "Crawling through the grass while trying not to be seen" grows uninspiring after a short while, and when grass is replaced by mud or water it doesn't really improve things. When the undergrowth-hugging sneakery is only interrupted by boss fights against bland comic-book dropouts, it doesn't always feel like there's a lot to look forward to, gameplay-wise.

But then you get to the endgame, and the tone shifts to complete balls-to-the-wall intensity, both in the gameplay and in the emotional tone of the story. From the (genuinely) epic motorcycle chase and confrontation, to stealthing and fighting through the forest with Snake's wounded companion, to the final heart-breaking showdown, the pace never lets up again. The game's subtitled 'Tactical Espionage Action", and it's in those final stages that the tactics, espionage and all-out action truly come to the fore in unision.

Don't get me wrong, I love Snake Eater overall, but I reckon it's one of for coming to some negative conclusions.

[Wolf Kanno]

Threads of Fate (Dew Prism) starts off as a pretty generic RPG about a goofy princess and a amnesiac warrior. Beyond some quirks its nothing you haven't already seen but the story actually jumps to something bigger, especially in Rue's story and it gives you a genuine twist cause the cutesy world design didn't make you think it would go there. So it goes from "meh" to "well that was a surprise" and that's always something I appreciate.

The World Ends With You is the same way, though you guess part of its story early on. Yet I'm actually surprised how much I ended up liking everything. Still my favorite original DS title.

Armor Core games tend to go this way as well. The first quarter of the missions are easy and simple but the complexity grows pretty steady and once you get used to the games awkward controls it becomes a thing of beauty. Until AC3 ruined everything of course... :mad2:

Several FF games have this problem but I don't feel any exemplify this more than FFXIII. Mostly cause XIII starts off pretty ho-hum and then very slowly grows into something interesting and engaging only to come crashing down at Chapter 9 and confirming no survivors by Chapter 11. Yet it still finds ways to go downhill from burning corpses there.

[Dreddz]

As for the topic, I'l go with RE4. The gameplay was all right at first and the atmosphere created in the village at the start was great. Once you leave that village though the cool atmosphere the game has has long since passed and everything degenerates into a game of enter a new area, fight waves of enemies for a few minutes, enter a new area, fail at a quick time event (twice because they changed the button input the second time), fight waves of enemies, rinse and repeat. It was also not long after the village that the small annoyances built into the combat system really started to grate on my nerves. Had the game been 5-10 hours I may remember it as a decent enough experience. Instead I finished it at the 20 hour mark and vowed to never play it again
Interesting you bring up Resident Evil but don't touch upon the one thing that lets down nearly every entry in the series. Every game starts off in a really cool enviorment but nearly all of them finish in a ugly sterile laboratory type area. The developers must view it as some kind of tradition to set the games up this way but I think everyone would be happier if they dropped this idea.

[Slothy]

I actually didn't mind that in every other game, mind you they didn't drag on nearly as long as RE4 (even if you combine them no less). That said, I'm really not joking when I say I didn't care for the atmosphere in any of the levels after the village in RE4. Even the castle did absolutely nothing for me, though I think at that point they had so utterly destroyed any illusion of attempting to create any suspense or atmosphere that I just gave up on that.

[I Don't Need A Name]

I would say Infamous. But then all I can really is the ending is the only part of the game worth merit. The rest of it was run-of-the-mill Spider-man crossed with Assassin's Creed of beat some enemies, do the same sidequest, upgrade your webbing lightening. Until you get to that final revalation which is cool, but no where near makes up for the shoddy game.

[Flying Arrow]

Deus Ex is genius until it turns into a dungeon crawler 2/3rds of the way through.

Where in the game exactly did you find that this happened? I assume sometime after Paris when there are no more town-type locations? I actually really like the final levels of this game, but I see how one can find it exhausting running through the air force base, ocean lab, and Area 51 in succession.

My two cents:

FFXII I felt started a bit slow. Most of the FFs have never really had problems with intros, but XII's was just slow. I don't think the game really picks up at all until the entire party gets together and leaves on the big quest.

A game that starts great and finishes badly: Bioshock. I love the first level, but everything after it slowly becomes more and more monotonous. I gave it a spin a month or so ago to give it another chance. I loved the beginning, but, again, started losing interest halfway into the second major area. I haven't touched it since and instead played through System Shock 2 - which is coincidentally another game that loses steam part way through. Everything on the Van Braun is solid and exciting an all, but once you board the second ship it goes downhill fast with a stupid find-15-macguffins quest, an irritating final set of stages and an offensively stupid final boss fight and ending sequence. Good god.

[Markus. D]

Drakengard. Not until the game is finished. The story telling for the hidden-chapters is still quite bad, yet the lengths they go to with their concepts are disturbingly chromatic. <3

My quarrel with the MMO RIFT is simply graphical tolerance. Grassy areas until level 30-ish. Desert and wasteland follows. How boring. They really had me convinced with that neat little starting sequence though.

[Crop]

Final Fantasy 8 for me. I thought the game was great up until you defeat Edea after the battle between the gardens, then it just got so bad I've never actually been able to bring myself to complete the game.

[Rostum]

Final Fantasy 8 for me. I thought the game was great up until you defeat Edea after the battle between the gardens, then it just got so bad I've never actually been able to bring myself to complete the game.

I agree, but it's a shame you never completed it. The last dungeon has probably some of the best design, music and atmosphere out of the series.

[Jiro]

Final Fantasy 8 for me. I thought the game was great up until you defeat Edea after the battle between the gardens, then it just got so bad I've never actually been able to bring myself to complete the game.

I agree, but it's a shame you never completed it. The last dungeon has probably some of the best design, music and atmosphere out of the series.

This is true right here.

[VeloZer0]

Which is interesting as I quite FF8 immediately at he commencement of Disk 4. I should have plowed through so I could have seen it at least once.

[Wolf Kanno]

I was not really impressed with Ultimecia's castle from an audio visual point of view, the music is okay and if you've played RE you've seen just about everything UC throws at you. Its fighting to get your abilities back that makes it stand out.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

What games can you think of that changed significantly, for better or worse, at some point midway through?

Xenogears.

This quote pretty much sums it up.

"The first disc is a game. The second disc is a text dump with some boss fights. The project had gone way over time and budget limitations. So, they rushed to get the game out. Unfortunately, that means that on the second disc, you read about events and fight bosses between long reads. There's no more exploring or finding things for yourself....for the most part, anyway.

It does go back into World Map game mode, before the final battle. Which will allow you to trigger a few optional sidequests that you may have missed on disc 1."

I truly believe this would have been my favorite video game of all time, if only the content was spread out between 3-4 discs, instead of having it all rushed in to 2 discs.

[VeloZer0]

I think they could have fit it on 2 just fine, they just didn't have time to make the content.

Xenogears was my inspiration for making this thread.

[Wolf Kanno]

Despite my hate of XIII, I actually don't mind Xenogears 2nd disc but that's because they waited until I was completely invested in the story to pull what they did. :cool:

Legend of Mana has a rather sub-par ending, the game really doesn't try too hard to tell an overarching story with the Mana Tree, so when it finally shows up, and you face the final boss, its not as well done as the Dragoon or Jumi Tribe stories. It's a shame cause overall, it was a great game.

DQVIII petered out by the end as well, I literally was thrown off that I had reached the end and when I beat the Final boss, I was expecting another form, and instead went straight to the ending.

I would agree with FFXII, but only in concern with everything that takes place after the Pharos dungeon. It really reeked of a rush job but, I still give Vayne props for being a more challenging boss than most of the modern era FFs.

[VeloZer0]

I still give Vayne props for being a more challenging boss than most of the modern era FFs.
You usually seem like a pretty smart guy, but sometimes you just blow my mind. :p I've only played FF12 once, but I remember fighting Vayne while watching TV with my friend and laughing at how easy it was. No end game sidequests either. (Yes that's right, there were two TVs in the room) It boggles my mind how whenever you bring up FF12 my experience was completely different.


I actually don't mind Xenogears 2nd disc but that's because they waited until I was completely invested in the story to pull what they did.
I think thats why I disliked it so much. It was such an abrupt change from the disk before. Had the game slowly progressed in that direction or been that way the whole time I would have been much more tolerant.

[Wolf Kanno]

I still give Vayne props for being a more challenging boss than most of the modern era FFs.
You usually seem like a pretty smart guy, but sometimes you just blow my mind. :p I've only played FF12 once, but I remember fighting Vayne while watching TV with my friend and laughing at how easy it was. No end game sidequests either. (Yes that's right, there were two TVs in the room) It boggles my mind how whenever you bring up FF12 my experience was completely different.

I said he was challenging compared to most modern FF bosses, you know the same ones where a round of Ultimas, a casting of KotoR, using an Invincibility Item, spamming a games four max damage skills (when you're not spamming Trance), and letting Auron hit him with Masemune has been the norm. Every boss from VI to FFX have been killable in a single round of combat. Vayne could at least dance around a bit and spam his palings to keep himself alive. He's a cockroach, he can't hurt you, but he didn't go down like a chump like every other boss from the previous five console final bosses. If Vayne being considered "challenging" makes you sad, then you should look at what we've been working with for the last decade preceding it. :p



I actually don't mind Xenogears 2nd disc but that's because they waited until I was completely invested in the story to pull what they did.I think thats why I disliked it so much. It was such an abrupt change from the disk before. Had the game slowly progressed in that direction or been that way the whole time I would have been much more tolerant.

It was a sharp contrast, but I just didn't feel the same way. I understand the game was half finished and I appreciate getting a really well crafted first disc. The second disc delivered what I wanted (the story) and frankly, since most people are averaging 60+ hours by the time you get to the second disc, I felt the gameplay was starting to feel repetitive and old (and I adore this game) by this point so taking a break from it was actually a nice breather for me cause I was more focused on the plot by this point. Besides I feel the most memorable dungeons were in Disc 2, which is kind of impressive considering there were only three of them not counting the two optional sections.

[VeloZer0]

I was just referring to the story->last boss difficulty curve. I find it is the only way to play any modern RPG and still get any enjoyment out of the last boss fight.