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View Full Version : So what was actually happening to Kain? (spoilers)



MJN SEIFER
04-28-2011, 11:23 PM
I think it was the latter, but would like to hear your opinion.

Wolf Kanno
04-29-2011, 04:09 AM
Mind control by Golbez.

Yar
04-29-2011, 09:20 AM
Mind control by Golbez.Ya. I mean it's true Zemus was controlling Golbez, but think of Kain as a contract killer for Golbez.

mashowasho
05-19-2011, 08:08 PM
I think he was actually suffering from an inferiority complex and jealousy over Rosa, which Golbez used to turn him against the rest of the party.

Roogle
05-19-2011, 11:01 PM
The game makes it fairly clear that magic can be used to mind control others across vast distances in space.

Golbez is not an evil individual. Final Fantasy IV: The After Years and the Dissidia Final Fantasy series makes this clear. This question has a parallel in Final Fantasy VIII with Edea and Ultimecia. If you do not hold Edea responsible for her actions, then you should not hold Golbez responsible for his actions.

Regardless, Golbez and Kain understand that there is an inherent weakness within the individual who is being mind controlled, so both of them believe that atonement is necessary.

Darth Cid
05-24-2011, 05:59 PM
Interesting question, but I think it was Goblez controlling Kain while being controlled by Zemus. Chain mind control with Zemus being at the root of it.

Fynn
05-24-2011, 07:23 PM
The game makes it fairly clear that magic can be used to mind control others across vast distances in space.

Golbez is not an evil individual. Final Fantasy IV: The After Years and the Dissidia Final Fantasy series makes this clear. This question has a parallel in Final Fantasy VIII with Edea and Ultimecia. If you do not hold Edea responsible for her actions, then you should not hold Golbez responsible for his actions.

Regardless, Golbez and Kain understand that there is an inherent weakness within the individual who is being mind controlled, so both of them believe that atonement is necessary.

That was a bit different. Edea was smurfing POSSESSED! And the mind-controlled Golbez used Kain's weak spot as a means to take control of his mind. See, the difference, I believe, lies in that Edea was not herself at the time at all. It was just Ulti in her body. While Kain is still Kain, but with his weakness exaggerated and thanks to that he can take commands from Golbez.

Roogle
05-28-2011, 01:01 AM
The mind control of Zemus is very similar to possession by Ultimecia is the point that I am trying to make. Golbez instantly realizes his wrongdoing and seeks to right his wrongs the second that FuSoYa breaks the mind control, much like Edea instantly regains her former self when Ultimecia releases her possession.

Wolf Kanno
05-28-2011, 02:27 AM
I'm not sure I can agree with that Roogle. In the DS expansion of Golbez's backstory, Zemus wears Golbez's will down by playing towards his misfortune and what humans did to Kluya. Not to mention Golbez retains even after he is freed from Zemus' control, his general preference to his Lunarian Bloodline over his human side.

Also, Golbez's goal was specifically stated to be gathering the crystals of the Moon so he can gain some great power before it was revealed later that it would release Zemus from his bind and teleport the Giant of Bab-il to the blue planet. I'd say Zemus used a similar ploy on Golbez as Golbez used on Kain. I'd say Zemus used the same tactics of guilt and promising rewards, its just Golbez was more taken in from both Zemus being more powerful and also from the long amount of time Zemus had to shape Golbez into what he wanted.

Roogle
05-31-2011, 10:35 PM
The parallel between the possessions of Golbez and Edea is fairly clear to me. I think that it just depends on how you view possession, because I consider a person being heavily influenced into doing the bidding of another pretty much the same as someone actually occupying the body of another because of the end result.

Final Fantasy IV: The After Years allows you to see more into what happened to Golbez. He clearly regrets all of his actions, but it is clear to me that the person who committed the atrocities in Final Fantasy IV is not the same person who becomes a playable character in the sequel. It is really hard to say what, exactly, happened to Golbez as he was taken by Zemus at such a young age. I reckon based on his loyalty to the Lunarians that he feels like he cannot go back to the human world because he has only brought darkness to it.

Wolf Kanno
06-03-2011, 09:22 AM
I consider possesion and mind control differently, specifically that mind control still allows an individual to think for themselves whereas possession is simply the other person in control. One of the biggest difference between Golbez's mind control and Edea's possession is that Edea has no issues fighting her "children" cause its actually Ultimecia in control, whereas Golbez is unable to bring himself to kill Cecil though he had several opportunities to do so. With mind control, you can't make someone do something they are strongly opposed to doing.

I feel Golbez could be as ruthless and evil and still regretful of his actions without it being possession. Kain is certainly aware of his actions when Golbez controlled him and his actions stem from his own dark desires, which is how he was controlled to begin with. I feel the flashback in the DS version (which TAY has made canon) pretty much sets up a similar scenario for Golbez.

He loves his father and the gifts of his Lunarian heritage, loses his father from human hands, fails to save his father's life cause he lacked power (white magic) and then lost his mother to his brother. I feel all these events could lead Golbez to be secretly resentful of humans, feel superior to them, and wishing to seek power which are all traits he possesses in the actual game. It doesn't mean Golbez is inherently evil or doesn't feel remorse for his actions, but rather just shows its not so different from Kain who simply had his darkest desires manifested. I feel Golbez is the same thanks to the flashback explaining his backstory, as well Golbez being completely in the dark about Zemus' existence and what his actions were really doing.

I agree he partially went with FuSoYa out of guilt (man, they pulled a Krelian) but I also feel that Golbez felt more connected to his Lunarian roots than his human side whereas Cecil is quite the opposite.

Phantom Beast
06-03-2011, 03:07 PM
I have only gone through IV once (Translated SNES ROM) ^.^


Interesting question, but I think it was Goblez controlling Kain while being controlled by Zemus. Chain mind control with Zemus being at the root of it. - This

And yeah, Edea was Completely Void from any Pain she caused throughout FFVIII, but when she "Snaps" out of it, She completely understands that she may come possessed again, and become a being (Mentally) with a completely different set of Morals, with no reachable willpower/motives from the real "Edea".

In IV There are moments when Kain and Goblez Show that unlike Edea they still have Scraps of Willpower, Goblez refuses to Kill Cecil at his highest chance of doing so due to Brotherly Love, and Kain, Like Goblez, Has a hidden weakness, Rosa, which is abused by Zemus - Goblez - Kain Mind Control.

But I'm no expert when it comes to IV, It's one of my many Favorites, even if I have only palyed it once, I thought the mind control was pretty straightforward, but I have not played FFIVTAY, so maybe I'm missing out on some other Information.