Project Café

[Agent Proto]

I haven't seen a thread about Nintendo's successor to the Wii, so I'm going to post this link which tells us everything that is already known about Project Café (http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/04/29/what-we-know-about-wii-2project-caf-so-far).

Your thoughts about this new upcoming console from Nintendo?

[nirojan]

Nintendo trying to re-affirm itself in the hardcore market? I can see this failing and succeeding in alot of ways. Both Sony and Microsoft have already announced that their next consoles probably wont be out before 2014, so Nintendo will probably use this 2012 date and the old we-released-before-you-guys when their hardware runs like crap 3 years from now. They formally announced that they want to support the 3rd-party developers more, so that's a good thing cause they smurfing hate the Wii.

They need to re-assert themselves on the multi-plat table. The 360/PS3/PC releases will now have a Nintendo title as well, instead of a crappy Wii tie-in (if anything at all). Graphics-wise IGN reported that it'll be marginally better than current-gen (although they didn't rule out that this was a rumour). I'm pretty inclined to believe that, because Nintendo never brings state-of-the-art tech to their consoles. So i expect Cafe-exclusives to be better looking than PS3-exclusives, but not quite there against the big AAA PC titles released 2 years from now.

All that controller talk is extremely confusing and I still can't picture the 6" screen with buttons and all that other crap they allegedly got going for it. I really want Nintendo to bring something new in terms of innovation and I fully expect them to deliver on that front.

All in all, this console will probably be a great seller for Nintendo and seeing the declining month-to-month Wii sales I'm guessing they probably need it. They need to fully support the 3rd-Party developers and make sure they pull through for them like Sony/Microsoft do in terms of dev support and promote their titles as well. They probably wont be first place next gen (even with the 2 year head start)...just a hunch. Oh well, we'll have to wait for e3 for the full run down, but I fully expect Nintendo to come out guns blazing for this one and wish them luck (they'll need it to catch up to the 80-mil mark set by the Wii)!!

[DMKA]

Is the basis going to be more motion control crap? I hope not.

I also hope that video is waaaaay wrong about the hardware specs. Which I'm pretty sure they are, since they sound like they really don't know anything and are just going by the same rumors everyone else has to read on gaming blogs (and typically when you hear the words "inside sources" it means everything following it is crap, or at least, in the gaming world anyway).

[Bolivar]

Yeah this is crazy interesting, especially with the controller (http://www.warpzoned.com/?p=6669), but I'm pretty sure this will be a silghtly advanced "current gen" console instead of the next one really. It's been a bit surprising in the last year how hard Nintendo is trying to win back the "hardcore" gamer (STRESS ON QUOTATION MARKS!!!!), but in truth they're really just trying to win back the hardcore developer.

Nintendo makes a lot of money selling its hardware alone, and they have that lineup of nintendo classics that always does well, plus their uber casual line that does crazy, but I'm assuming they want to tap into that sweet Call of Duty money and the Wii ports just aren't doing it for them. You have to admit it's not a bad racket, Sony and Microsoft really don't have to do anything (except for the latter paying presumably absurd amounts to lock down exclusive content) and they just rack up the licensing money. Not a bad deal, but I feel like that game sells to the already-installed, huge user bases of PSN and Xbox Live, and the new infusion of users since November is a big console selling month, rather than to a new demographic. For that reason, I don't know if Nintendo can compete with those two established services, they're going to need a lot more than Friend Codes, and I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented a premium, subscription service to play like Xbox Live.

Going down a route of extremely powerful graphics, I think the move could be counter-intuitive for two reasons: 1) they don't have developers who excel at highly technical games and 2) they're almost compromising the distinct style and feel they've been cultivating for the last 5 years.

Both problems are embodied by Yuji Hori stating something like how he doesn't like very good graphics, they're not important to him, and not necessary for Dragon Quest, and that's why the tenth game is now going to the Wii. In fact, Nintendo really won over Dragon Quest from Sony, and they've put some amazing products out over the last few years. I'll always remember when DQIV came out on DS and playing it on weekend mornings and how awesome that game was, and I can't wait to tear into DQV, especially having played a lot of a fanslation.

BUT BACK TO THE TOPIC, it took Sony's studios quite a long time to make the kind of games they make, pulling off the kind of spectacles they pull off. Killzone 2 took about four years to make, and Gran Turismo 5 took maybe 5-6. Add to the fact that Nintendo's studios don't seem to have this drive of expertise when it comes to graphics, nor do they even have the enthusiasm, as it seems like most of them just want to make fun games. I'd imagine Nintendo would be hiring a lot of people for its first party studios, which leads to

them losing their feel. They've gone in a very specific direction with the DS and Wii, and it may not have as many titles that appeal to gamers like us, the ones that do, do so in a tremendous way. I'm playing FFIV Complete Collection right now, and it's awesome, but I think part of why I may ultimately prefer the GBA port is because it just FEELS better being on a Nintendo console, that's just the kind of game that FFIV was. so they may be sacrificing some of their brand identity, not to mention a reverse efffect of my FFIV example, where I think most people will prefer to play Call of Duty and Assasins Creed on their PS3s and 360s.

Still, the classic rotation of Nintendo first party games are probably all going to look beautiful.

[Slothy]

There are a lot of things working against Nintendo's next console the way I see it.

First there's the casual market. The thing that literally made the Wii the success it was is going to work against them in a lot of ways. For starters, these aren't people who really buy or play a lot of games. The Wii had a terrible attach rate for titles because people weren't buying games to the degree that PS3/360 owners do. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if many never bought much more than Wii Sports and Wii Fit. The problem will be convincing these users to buy a new console 5 years later, especially given the changes in the casual landscape. Nintendo will now be competing directly (whether they realize it or not) with smart phones, tablets, browser based games, etc. These have exploded in casual gaming since the Wii came out and many who are used to using their smartphone or ipad for their casual gaming will likely be hesitant to through down the cash for a console that doesn't offer anything that different for them. Even worse is that Nintendo hasn't mentioned anything radically new (a touch screen on the controller isn't a radical innovation by any stretch) and certainly can't rely on the novelty of motion controls this time around. This is all without even getting into the fact that more powerful hardware means higher dev costs which will make it harder for companies to turn a profit on casual games.

And if it wasn't enough that the casual market will be a tough sell, they've got to try and win back hardcore gamers who are used to being burned by Nintendo, and third parties who are especially going to be gun shy after the last three generations. Yes, it will be easier to port games from the PS3/360, but it's going to be hard for Nintendo to get third party's to commit to the exclusives they'd need to really draw in hardcore gamers who likely already have a PS3 or 360, or both. And all of this will be totally moot if they don't drastically improve their online infrastructure. Friend codes are not going to cut it and they're already basically two generations behind Microsoft and one behind Sony in this regard. They'll have a lot of catching up to do, and I really don't have a lot of confidence in Nintendo to pull it off. They've repeatedly shown their out of touch with what gamers want in terms of online capabilities, from saying gamers don't want it on the Gamecube, to the pathetic implementation and community features of the DS and Wii.

Maybe they'll pull it off on the strength of their name or even more impressive, actually manage to competently address all of the challenges they have to overcome, but it'll be a hard road for them. They can't count on casual gamers, hardcore gamers or third parties supporting them with the new console unless they really give them reasons to.

[Wolf Kanno]

To me, the tablet sounds like Nintendo is trying to somewhat go back to the idea they had on the GameCube and GBA connectivity which was a poorly thought out idea but one I rather enjoyed to be honest. It almost sounds like the DS will be the controller and that creates some interesting ideas but how that will work is really anyone's guess.

I can agree with Vivi22 about the uphill battle for Nintendo, of which they will be trying to appeal to hardcore gamers while still trying to stay relevant to casual consumers but I don't feel appealing to "casual" gamers may be all that difficult since the idea that Nintendo created a positive brand name for itself with people who wouldn't necessarily care enough to dig deep into gaming. I can see a whole new generation (Grandparents and busy parents) being willing to shell out cash for Nintendo games for family members who got hooked onto gaming, and thanks to their own experience with the Wii, while they may not be buying the games for their own amusement, they may be more willing to choose Nintendo over the competition since they have more experience with them. Granted, this means Nintendo will still be trapped with its kiddy moniker.

The "hardcore" battle will be tougher cause Nintendo has not only made themselves the Disney of Gaming, but they certainly burnt a lot of bridges this console generation. Yet, I don't feel like Nintendo will have a hard time getting back 3rd party support as long as they keep the technology within reason. Motion controls through everyone off, and Nintendo dropped the ball trying to show what it could do. This is more apparent with their handheld market which has pretty good 3rd party support but also has more familiar styles of gaming.

Still, I'm not too sure about how relevant third party exclusives will be this generation. There really weren't a lot of high profile 3rd party exclusives this console generation, most of the exclusives were done in-house by all three companies, except some of Nintendo's titles which weren't exactly winners (Metroid: Other M, Mario Sports Mix). Most of the third party exclusives were on the handhelds or DLC networks so I feel its not unlikely for the next console generation to see more multi-platform work for some major 3rd party titles. Until companies learn to make their games more efficient and cheaper, it will probably be safer for them to cast their nets wide, on their gaming audience. RE has already gone that rout and FFXIII got a huge sales boost from the 360 version. There really is no reason to stay with exclusives for the third party companies, especially since more powerful systems will drive up cost and they now have to compete with growing markets that have lower cost of production (DL and handhelds) so I can see the next generation being less about tech and more about features, especially mobile and online features, as both have really took off this generation while traditional big budget titles are not garnering the same enthusiasm they had a generation ago.

To bring this back on topic, this will be Nintendo's biggest hill to climb, they seriously need to get into the online market this generation and make it a priority, Microsoft is already ahead and while recent events have certainly tripped up Sony, its not going to slow them down. WiiWare is just nowhere near the competitions level at this point and its definetly the one arena where Sony and Microsoft can easily say they are kicking Nintendo's ass hands down.

[KentaRawr!]

If what they say is true about the controller, I think that's very interesting, mainly because it's kind of a combination of various things Nintendo's tried out, giving developers some things they can refer to when coming up with ways to use the controller's functions. The first thing most people think of is the Dreamcast's VMU, but it reminds me more of some of the GBA-GCN Connectivity games, like Wolf Kanno said, but also, if it's true that the screen on the controller is a TOUCH screen, then developers can also consider all of the ways the touch screen on the DS had been used, and how games on the DS benefited from having two screens, as well. (Awesome Console FPS Controls? We shall see)

Then again, with the DS, switching between two different screens isn't much of a problem, because they're right next to one another. How much emphasis can really be put on the controller's screen, in that case? Switching between the two constantly seems like it would get either confusing, or at least, tedious. In games like Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, it certainly was.

Another thought comes to mind. What if the controller itself could act independently of the system? I remember the Dreamcast's VMUs had some very light software which you could download onto it via the Dreamcast's Web Browser, like a little Chao Customization tool I used to use to use. (It was most certainly cheating.) It would be interesting if Nintendo acted on that to allow the controller itself to have some light software saved onto it, as well, but that would require the controller itself to have some decent processing power.

Then again, the controller's uses could be a lot more simple. Maybe they could avoid splitting up a single screen into four sections when playing multiplayer games locally by giving each player their own personal screen. This is a lot like what they had done with The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures.

Or maybe, multiple different people could use the system at the same time in different ways. What if my brother wanted to play, say, Castlevania IV on the Virtual Console, but I wanted to play the latest Mario Kart. Perhaps my brother could have Castlevania IV run in the background, with the gameplay being streamed directly to his controller, while I played Mario Kart.

Or, the whole controller thing might be totally untrue. We'll see!

[Mo-Nercy]

Some of my favourite Nintendo games are, unsurprisingly enough, games that come across as "very Nintendo". I'm all for them playing catch up in high definition graphics and online gaming, but as long as they don't do anything too drastic with their core fan favourites - go for your life, Nintendo.

[Bolivar]

There really is no reason to stay with exclusives for the third party companies, especially since more powerful systems will drive up cost and they now have to compete with growing markets that have lower cost of production (DL and handhelds) so I can see the next generation being less about tech and more about features, especially mobile and online features, as both have really took off this generation while traditional big budget titles are not garnering the same enthusiasm they had a generation ago.

I would not be surprised if the "more platforms = more sales" axiom is going to deteriorate eventually. Case in point: Enslaved will never reach the sales that Heavenly Sword did for Ninja Theory, despite it appearing to be a better game by most accounts. It's the whole "big fish in a small pond" thing, and as the majority of multiplatform game sales become even further concentrated into only a handful of titles, there's going to be some interesting developments, like budgets being drastically reduced, a heavier focus on the digital space, or just fewer but bigger titles coming out from publishers.

The exclusives question is interesting because it's been handled in so many different ways. Microsoft really differentiated itself by having many PC title from developers who want an easy conversion process and just don't want to or can't do a ps3 version. Sony's been having their first party studios nonstop churning out insane content, as well as second-party type relationships, publishing games by Level 5, From Software, and Media Molecule before buying them outright. I don't know how important exclusives will be for Cafe, I personally think having their first party studios churn out a couple titles a year (which may be problematic as I said earlier since they're probably not up to the task) with maybe a few exclusive DLC type things, and they'd have a somewhat easy transition on that front.

But like other have said, there's a whole host of issues facing them.

[Wolf Kanno]

I just feel the lack of 3rd party exclusives is not far fetched for the next generation. Partly from cost and partly because, using this generation as an example, unless we're talking the Wii or high end PC (of which only a small user base can probably run without upgrading), the quality between Microsoft and Sony products is negligible in the eyes of the average consumer and only a point of contention between tech heads and fanboys; and I don't really feel like that's going to change this coming generation either. We'll still see it strong in handhelds and online gaming, but I feel 3rd party exclusives will be more rare on high end consoles this coming generation, unless developers change how they make games, or there is some kind of "miracle programming tools" that will allow even garage gaming studios to make what looks like AAA titles with full HD and top of the line audio, all with a simple kit and a year to develop it.

My own theory is what I stated, that features and content will be more important than tech in the long run. Nintendo has a chance if they get their :bou::bou::bou::bou: together and do a little catch up. While I feel Nintendo has the better handheld devices and tech, I do feel that Sony has one them up with the PSP/PS3 compatibility link up. Its better for 3rd party developers as well cause it cuts down cost. If only they had better memory... 8GB is just not enough.

I also don't feel like Nintendo is going to have issues making games for a higher end system. Of all three companies, it always seems like Nintendo's1st party developers understand their tech better than most of MS and Sony's people do. The PS3 is five years old and Trico still doesn't have a release date? My point is that I wouldn't underestimate Nintendo in this regard, beyond the online element, I don't really feel that Gears of War 3 and God of War 3 require some special elite programming skill that was not in Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess. I also feel that the "HD excuse" from Japanese developers is simply just an excuse to hide the fact they're either out of ideas or bowing to Sales and Marketing departments who are out of touch with the gaming market.

When SE President Wada, who's entire history at Square and Squenix was being an accountant and corporate businessman is trying to tell the rest of the Japanese gaming industry, what the future of gaming is going to be and how the industry will survive, that right there should be a red flag to people.

We'll have to wait and see I guess. Nintendo may be getting a head star but that just means Sony and Microsoft can use them to test the waters of what the gaming industry and community is looking for in the next generation.

[Bolivar]

I don't really feel that Gears of War 3 and God of War 3 require some special elite programming skill that was not in Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess.

Mmmm, I don't know about that one. I've never seen Gears do anything mindblowing, but have you played the opening gameplay sequence of God of War III? You should watch it if you don't intend on playing it.

[Depression Moon]

Why is it called Project Cafe? Planning to implement a coffee maker into it or a built in screen plus Wifi so you can use it at Starbucks?

[Slothy]

Nintendo's not exactly known for awesome code names. Ultra 64? Dolphin? Fuck, the Wii might be the one example they have of a code name that bitch slapped the :bou::bou::bou::bou: out of the actual release name.

[Depression Moon]

More on the topic I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo primarily focused on their casual market again, but hearing that they might go for both sounds like it would be difficult. I think both 360 and PS3 did manage to do well on both ends with games like Call of Duty, Rock Band and of course the sports games on the casual end and with exclusive games like Uncharted, Mass Effect, etc. on the hardcore end. They didn't do as well as Wii overall, but they still did well.

I'm personally feeling a bit burnt on all these game consoles. I'm still behind on PS2 games and still don't have a Nintendo DS, yet the 3DS is out already. Man I wish I could win the lottery, get on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire or something.

[Shattered Dreamer]

The Wii is so popular because it appeals to people who aren't even gamers or the casual. I mean Nintendo were almost broke before the Wii came out unless they plan to release another Wii console along with this I say they're doomed to fail :/

[Timekeeper]

Some of my favourite Nintendo games are, unsurprisingly enough, games that come across as "very Nintendo". I'm all for them playing catch up in high definition graphics and online gaming, but as long as they don't do anything too drastic with their core fan favourites - go for your life, Nintendo.
Same reason I bought a Wii. If they can produce a console that has prettier graphics, yet doesn't stray too far from the casual nature that Nintendo has adopted, I'm sure everything will be fine and dandy.


Why is it called Project Cafe? Planning to implement a coffee maker into it or a built in screen plus Wifi so you can use it at Starbucks?
Coffee is a social thing to do?

[KentaRawr!]

You don't "do" coffee. You drink it, goofball.

[Timekeeper]

You've never heard the phrase 'Let's do coffee'?
Coffee making and it's subsequent drinking is a social situation, and many people consider that to be doing coffee.

[KentaRawr!]

You must come from crazy land.

[Timekeeper]

I don't 'do' coffee, but I've heard people refer to it that way. I think everyone can agree that it's become a social ritual for many people, which may be the point Nintendo is making...
Wow I've over analysed this :D

[Jiro]

As much as I hate to admit it, he's right. People do coffee. Except it's a stupid american phrase so why is it being argued this way?

[Timekeeper]

There's the fact that I'm me and... he's not from one of those American states?