The Wheel of Time

[FFIX Choco Boy]

Anyone read, or reading, the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson? I've been on them for the past 4 months or so, and I'm on The Fires of Heaven, now. I love this series, and think that TSR was my favorite so far, and the best read I've had in my entire life, and that's quite a few reads, too. The end was a complete masterpiece, and Perrin's story is definitely the most compelling of all. He's by far my favorite character, with Mat coming second, and Nyneave 3rd. So, I want to know, what about you guys? Favorite characters/best book/best sideplot/speculation on book 15? Please, though, no info on books 2-13, or on New Spring, without spoiler tags, and put which book it's from before the tag. I will find anyone who spoils these books for me... and force them to watch 5 hours of Oprah, and then 5 hours of Seinfeld repeats, every day for the rest of their lives.

Sidenote: In the EoFF Old Skool forum skin, RM reminds me of Mat, Fighter of Rand, WM of Aviendha, and BM of either Nyneave or Moghedian, either way very scary in a fight. Just an extra thought.

[Iceglow]

I've read, re-read and read some more of the books currently available and am eagerly anticipating the final chapters. Brandon Sanderson is not Robert Jordan but the good thing about his entries in to the series (after Jordan's untimely demise) is that he doesn't try to become Jordan. He knows that impersonating the style would feel very hollow and empty and leave readers feeling cheated in a way. However I will say Brandon's own style of writing is very refreshing and whilst he is literally taking Jordan's extensive notes and fleshing them in to a story to finish the series off he is doing an impressive job of doing so. I have definitely got an interest once I am finished with some of my other reading demands right now in getting some of his other work aside from the book(s) he finished for Jordan (bear in mind, the last 3 books of the series, the trilogy written by Brandon is actually 1 book according to Jordan's notes).

I will say my favourite character in the series is Al' Lan Mandragoran his unrelenting will and determination to follow his duty is something I can respect and the words he imparts on Rand and the others Death is but lighter than a feather, Duty is heavier than a mountain ring true in real life serving as quite the inspirational sentiment.

My second favourite story arc is going to have to be that of Mat Cauthon, his story is considerably wittier than any other storyline and whats not to like about witty storyline writing?

I will say my favourite of the books so far has definitely been the original Eye Of The World. I say that because I picked it up randomly in a cheap store which was selling some books at like £1.50 a book. It was the only book on the shelf which I saw which I'd consider buying. I've never been more glad, or more out of pocket due to a £1.50 gambit in my life.

[Ouch!]

I don't know what it is about The Wheel of Time. The series does just about everything that I loathe in fantasy stories. It's genre trope after trope, and yet somehow I keep reading. My roommate got me into them this summer, and I zerged them all in preparation for the release of The Towers of Midnight.

The middle of the series really starts to drag on, I think. It's still good, but from a writer's point of view, it begins to become very bothersome that every conflict is perpetuated almost solely on the basis that the characters do not communicate with one another. This was acceptable early in the series when it made sense within the narrative. The characters were unable to communicate with one another because they were literally separated by hundreds of miles at almost any given moment. But later in the series, as characters begin to rediscover forgotten weaves such as traveling there's little excuse for this anymore. It becomes harder and harder to forgive when you've got three or four entire books where almost every problem could be solved by Rand having breakfast with Elayne then popping over to say hello to Nynaeve and then make it to Egwene's by dinner to keep everyone in the loop.

The magic system also breaks the cardinal rule in fantasy fiction. It is constructed so that literally anything is possible. It's just a matter of a character discovering how to do it. I usually reject this because it's typically an excuse for the author to end the series with a terrible deus ex machina, but the development of magic throughout the books has been gradually and generally well-constructed.

Also, if I have to hear one more male complain about not understanding women (or vice versa), I will punch a god damn baby.

All that said, I'm eagerly awaiting the last book. I can readily point out what about this series I don't like, but I can't identify what keeps me coming back.

[FFIX Choco Boy]

The reason it seems to drag on, is because it was originally planned to end on The Fires of Heaven. However, Jordan saw how much of a cash cow it was, as well as loved writing them so much, that he pulled them out a bit more. Now, I haven't gotten far enough to see how much it really drags, but I'm pretty sure that's the reason in a nutshell.

[Ouch!]

The series was originally given the green light by the publisher as a six-book deal, but that doesn't mean that Jordan ever planned for it to be completed by then.

[Del Murder]

I started reading the first book and fell asleep while reading it. 20 pages to describe a walk in the woods where you just see a cloaked figure and nothing else happens? No thanks.

[Bunny]

Glad I'm not the only one that felt that way, Del.

[Raistlin]

WoT is very poorly written. Interesting story, but amateurish, drawn-out writing along with terrible character development. Jordan also uses the same jokes OVER AND OVER. Yes, Mat thinks Rand is much better with chicks, while Rand thinks Mat is the best. It is even funnier after the 8th time.

A mediocre series at best. I would not recommend it.

[FFIX Choco Boy]

Terrible character development...? How do you figure that? Every character has their own little adventures, where you get in each of their heads, and learn basically everything about them. I know the rest is your opinion, but the development, I think, was definitely there. In abundance.

[Raistlin]

I am not saying that there wasn't an abundance of material. I'm saying it was done badly. There's tons of details about the story and world too, but Jordan wrote them down in a repetitive, boring way. His development of the characters is no different. Hell I couldn't stand any of them except Mat, who, while the only one with a likable personality, was still very one-dimensional. Facts and stories and adventures are not alternatives to substance for a character; they are merely parts of it.

[qwertysaur]

Perrin can talk to wolves, and that makes me very happy. :bigsmile: Thom and Siuan are also fun characters. :p Verin is also an amazing woman. Read the Gathering Storm and you shall see how awesome she really is.

The series does drag on a few plot points, like Perrins search and rescue for Faile., Elayne's uniting of Andor. and the White tower split, which all take place at the same time, and right when someone does anything the focus shifts away to someone else.

The Towers of Midnight ended with so much in the air and answered so many questions. Like the fact that apparently Caemlyn is on fire, and the future is not very bright according to what Aviendha saw.

I find it amusing how there is an entire continent that has not effected the story at all yet and probably wont. (The land of madmen)

[The Man]

As far as fantasy goes, Wheel of Time isn't one of the best series, but it also isn't anywhere near being one of the worst series. Unlike certain other authors I could name, Jordan actually does evolve his plot substantially (as opposed to rewriting the same plot over and over) and for the most part refrains from descending into black-and-white moralism, which is one of the reasons I feel his series works more often than not.

The biggest problem is that his writing can be slow at points, even painfully slow. "Taking a paragraph to describe the hem of a character's dress" slow. The worst offender is book ten, which mostly takes place in the span of a couple of days and retells the same events from most of the major characters' perspectives; Jordan later admitted that this was a failed experiment. However, the early books in the series are much better about this, as are the three most recent books in the series (book fourteen will almost certainly follow suit, because, well, it's Sanderson).

The other big negative point is that his characterisations aren't really that great. A lot of his characters have similar traits and behaviours (braid tugging, for example), and some of them can be extremely frustrating at times. However, for the most part they're nowhere near as bad as WesLY says they are.

That said, I think the strengths of the series outweigh the weaknesses. Jordan has a fairly strong grasp of the complexities of political intrigue, and his world-building is quite strong. The level of detail in WoT is close to that in LotR, if not even more so (Jordan didn't invent an entire language, but the huge span of the plot means you get to travel the world in much greater depth); you really get the sense that this is a world that has existed for thousands of years, with its own cultures and history. He also formulated one of the more interesting magic systems in fantasy literature, which not only relates to the plot but even ties in with some of his themes.

Most of today's "epic fantasy" owes a huge debt to Jordan, as he was really the first modern author of mega-sagas to reach a wide audience (granted, Brooks and Donaldson preceded him, but they started a long time before Jordan, and their scope doesn't seem to have been nearly as wide as Jordan's), so those interested in the history of the genre will likely find it interesting to read his works because of how many people built off his themes. This is not to say that other authors have not done more interesting things with the genre since - some of them include Terry Pratchett, China Miéville, and George R. R. Martin, in my opinion, although Pratchett is a contemporary of Jordan's and Discworld does not really count as a mega-saga in the same way WoT does - but often times one's appreciation for the genre deepens when one has a sense of its history, so I'd recommend it to anyone with a serious interest in the genre. Also, despite the length and massive number of characters, WoT doesn't actually take that long to read, probably because of the huge number of descriptive passages alluded to above. None of the volumes took me more than about four days apiece to read. Granted, I didn't have much better to be doing at the time.

That said, I'd probably recommend putting it off until the last book comes out, so you don't forget half the plot in the interim. I'm waiting until 2012 (it's anticipated in the late part of that year) before I start my re-read.

As for Sanderson, I've read everything he's written solo for adults except The Way of Kings (which I have on my shelf for later) and do not regret doing so. First off, he's one of the more perceptive authors of fantasy to emerge in the past decade or so; he does not boil down issues to simple questions with simple answers, and his works are stronger for it. His magic systems are pretty much as good as you can get in the genre. In some ways they are pretty much the opposite of Jordan's, in which anything can happen, because they're so intricately diagrammed out that fans of, I believe, the Mistborn series were able to correctly puzzle out what the rest of the system was before he had even revealed its complete formulation. And the other aspects of his world-building are solid as well, and his characterisation and plotting work well. The one weak point is that his prose doesn't stand out that much, but it's hardly bad. Well worth reading.

[Heath]

I read (what was then) most of the Wheel of Time books back when I was in High School. I read them all up to The Path of Daggers, but then lost my motivation with them. I think the first five books or so were very good, but then the series just started to drag an awful lot. I found them entertaining enough and wasn't too fussed about the quality when I was about 14. The only thing that's put me off re-reading them is the sheer length and given at Uni I have very little time or motivation to do non-course reading, it might be a while before I revisit them.

I think Aaron's post probably about sums it up for me though in terms of Jordan's writing style and the quality of it.

I do think they could be paced a hell of a lot better though, because sometimes there's either too much going on in too many different places or things just seem to move at a glacial pace anyway. My favourite characters were Moiraine, Perrin, Faile, Morgase and the Forsaken. I wasn't a big fan of Aviendha. Of Rand's harem, I probably most like Elayne.

[Del Murder]

Fitting that a post that is said to 'sum up' someone's views on this series is 7 paragraphs long.

[qwertysaur]

Fitting that a post that is said to 'sum up' someone's views on this series is 7 paragraphs long.
It's the abridged version. :p

[The Man]

Fitting that a post that is said to 'sum up' someone's views on this series is 7 paragraphs long.Yes. You also have to keep in mind who wrote it :monster:

[ZeroFusion]

I'm currently reading Lord of Chaos (chapter 25) and it's my first time through the series (a translation of WoT was hard to come by where I live, so I decided to order it for my Kindle). My reading speed is not so great as other say (maily because I read only when I travel to work and back, which takes at most 40 minutes each day), but so far I like the series a lot.

While I agree the books drag at a sluggish pace at times, I never skip a single paragraph just for the sake of my feel I have to complete everything thoroughly (I need to play Diasgaea to get rid of that habit).

I often find myself lost in the plethora of characters and places, especially when the Forsaken go on about the Age of Legends, so I got used to using WoT Encyclopaedia (http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/) as a good reference guide. The bad thing is I wasn't careful enough a few times and let my eyes slip to the side notes, spoiling some of the future events.