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Evastio
05-12-2011, 05:21 AM
Regarding the characters that are only playable by uploading chapter data (Ursula, Leonora, The Eblan Four, Calco, Brina, and Harley), in what order would you list them in terms of usefulness? This is considering the Final Chapter only.

From what I understand, read, and seen, it goes like this (most to least useful):
Ursula
Leonora
Gekkou
Zangetsu
Izayoi
Tsukinowa
Harley
Brina
Calco

I don't really see much people using the Eblan Four in their final team (are they really that bad?). Ursula is the most commonly used out of all of the "upload only" characters from what I see on youtube, but even then she was only used by one or two people. Also, I'm suprised that Leonora is used so little (she's so cute :love: ). I know her Black Magic is rather limited, but she learns all of the crucial spells, or is it because she learns them too late? Even so, I don't really see why she'd be left out since even with limited black magic, I see no problems with her white magic (unless not having Hold is really that bad for whatever reason).

Also, regarding the three "new" mandatory characters, what are their stats like? I'm pretty sure that Luca is like Cid, but how about Ceodore and Golbez? Is their physical attacks weaker than people like Cecil's and Kain's, in order to balance the fact that their magic ability is significantly better than theirs? Whose physical attack power would Ceodore's and Golbez's be comparable to?

Wolf Kanno
05-12-2011, 06:24 AM
I still haven't completed the After Years so I can easily be wrong about all of this but, of the ones listed...

Ursula is awesome cause she's a Mini-Yang with good HP, great speed and great attack power. Chakra is incredibly useful as a cheap single heal, and her third ability is pretty much her default attack since it randomly will either do normal damage, critical hit, or do a huge damage by hitting a weak spot.

Leonora is basically Tellah/FuSoYa, she's a white mage predominately so I'm sure most people don't take her for the end game cause both Rosa and Porom can do this duty easily, not to mention Cecil, Kain, and Ceodore all have basic white magic as well for backup. So I can see why most won't care to bring another White Mage to the party. She doesn't learn a few of the Black Magic spells but what really cripples her is that she learns most of the good Black Magic spells Tier 3 elemental spells and up until the late 60s to mid-80s, Rydia and Palom are learning stuff like Flare and Meteor in the 50s and 60s and Golbez starts with most of the spells she's missing.

The other kicker to all this, is that she has a pretty low INT stat from what I've noticed, I don't know if it dramatically rises when she reaches certain levels (like Edward does) but from my experience she could barely do much with her black magic she does learn. Considring how many Bands she gets, I'm suspecting she's a Marle (CT) type character whose true strength is in her combo attacks.

The Eblan Four are just weaker versions of Edge with more limited abilites, though Tsukinowa is a poor man's dragoon. I had a difficult time keeping them alive in their own chapter but once again they might pull something in terms of levels or great endgame gear but really I feel the Eblan Four only work well when their together and with Edge and that sadly is not as good as a party as I would like it to be but its still doable.

I haven't played Edward's chapter yet (or the Lunarians so I can't say anything about Golbez I'm afraid) so I can't comment on Harley right now. Edward's chapter is next for me.

I really liked Calca and Brina they were fun to use and despite their main abilities being somewhat random, I usually found it mostly worked in my favor (Atomic Rays and Cura, baby) they also have a pretty mean Band with Luca and apparently get an even nastier one with Luca and Cid. They're not bad but they are probably more like novelty characters. Their physical abilities are pretty weak so just keep them in the back row and have them dance.

As for the new three mandatory characters. Luca is indeed like Cid though I feel like she can take more of a hit than he can surprisingly enough. Her Throw Hammer move is infinitely better than Cid's Risky blow.

Ceodore is a bit weird... He's really like a mix of his two parents but its not exactly as beneficial as it may sound. Ceodore is definetly a better mage than Cecil and gets way better magic pool (Raise and Haste anyone?). He's a decent fighter but he is actually outclassed by Cecil, Kain, Yang, and dare I say... Edge. He also doesn't get as much HP or VIT as you would expect in the early levels. I'm still hoping for a comeback once I get him to level 60.

In truth he's basically a more durable White Mage who can equip armor and use swords and axes, but he won't really be out-damaging the main melee characters or taking hits as gracefully as they would. He's certainly a better mage than most of them, but that's not really difficult to do, and he still won't be nearly as good as dedicated White Mages. His special move is pretty awesome, it doubles his stats for a temporary amount of time (Kind of like Terra's Trance in VI) but be very careful, after a few rounds he reverts back with penalties to his stats so he becomes a bit of a sitting duck. While in his powered up mode he actually fight on par with everyone and sometimes even better. Its useful, just make sure you know you'll kill the enemy when you use it.

I can't comment on Golbez yet, I'm a chapter away from his actual playable chapter.

Roogle
05-12-2011, 09:58 PM
Harley is seen as the most useless character at the message board for the game at GameFAQs because she has a poor equipment selection and useless abilities.

Here are her abilities:

Fight
Piercing Sight
Gil Toss
Item

Harley only has access to whips, rods, and mystic armor, much like Rydia. Her Strength, Vitality, Intelligence, and other statistics more closely resemble that of a Magician, so she will never be a strong attacker because of the low attack power of whips.

Piercing Sight is designed to cast Dispel on a single enemy and assign them a weakness like the Debilitator in Final Fantasy VI. Its success rate leaves something to be desired, and it will not work at all on bosses or special enemies.

Gil Toss is much less powerful than its counterparts in other games. It does have defense-ignoring properties, at least.

Calca and Brina, at the very least, have more useful abilities even though they are more random.

Evastio
05-16-2011, 04:55 AM
Good to hear that Ceodore isn't as imbalanced as I thought he was. Though I've always considered Edge to be a good damage dealer, even better than Kain (pre-Lunar Ruins) seeing how Jump takes too long for my tastes, specifically during random encounters (and although it's not related to damage output, I don't like how it makes Kain leave the battlefield since he has good enough enough to take physical attacks, and Jump gives the enemy less targets so the mage characters have a better chance of being hit by attacks. If he had mage-like defense I'd be okay with it). Also, Edge being both handed makes his damage output with Regular Physical Attacks higher than Kain's, whether you've got Edge with Masamune and Murasame and Kain with the Holy Lance, or Edge with the Kikuichimonji and the Full Moon and Kain with the Defense Sword (or even the Gungnir). I even checked it on my endgame SNES file with Kain at level 67 and Edge at level 66.

Anyways, I kind of went off on a bit of a tangent there. Though with Leonora, her White Magic is still to par (or close enough to it) with Rosa's and Porom's right? I mean, I get your point about not needing her if you already have Rosa or Porom on your team, but isn't Leonora able to replace Rosa and Porom without much difficulty, seeing how she learns every white magic spell except for Hold? Or is her Spirit too low to have her be a main healer? Also, when you said she was like Tellah or FuSoYa, in what way is she like them? Are her stat growths really bad or does her MP start and always remain low? How is her MP compared to other mages?

Regarding Ursula and Luca, what are their disadvantages compared to Yang and Cid? You said Ursula was like a mini-Yang, so does that mean that her attack power is lower than Yang's? Also, what advantages does Cid have over Lu... wait. Never mind that question. You only get to use Cid for a long enough time in the final tale. I guess I'll save that question for later.

I'm glad that Calco and Brina's abilities balance out their rather low stats (and it's good to know that their abilities can't hurt you, like mixes or Predictions in FFV). I suppose they're similar to Gogo, how they make up for low base stats with versatility. As for Harley, isn't her attack at least somewhat higher than the average mage's?

And do you think you could elaborate more on the Eblan Four in terms of who's the most and who's the least useful? I read quite a bit about them on the FF Wiki, but I'm kind of wanting some input based on personal experience. I know Gekkou has stats like Cid's/Luca's, Zangetsu has stats like Kain's, Izayoi has white mage like stats, and Tsukinowa is like a weaker but faster Edge. But in what order would you put the Eblan Four from most to least useful?

Wolf Kanno
05-16-2011, 06:21 AM
Good to hear that Ceodore isn't as imbalanced as I thought he was. Though I've always considered Edge to be a good damage dealer, even better than Kain (pre-Lunar Ruins) seeing how Jump takes too long for my tastes, specifically during random encounters (and although it's not related to damage output, I don't like how it makes Kain leave the battlefield since he has good enough enough to take physical attacks, and Jump gives the enemy less targets so the mage characters have a better chance of being hit by attacks. If he had mage-like defense I'd be okay with it). Also, Edge being both handed makes his damage output with Regular Physical Attacks higher than Kain's, whether you've got Edge with Masamune and Murasame and Kain with the Holy Lance, or Edge with the Kikuichimonji and the Full Moon and Kain with the Defense Sword (or even the Gungnir). I even checked it on my endgame SNES file with Kain at level 67 and Edge at level 66.

I forgot to mention Ceodore's other strength which is the sheer versatility of his Bands. He may have more Bands than any other character in the game and he also gets one with everyone in the game except FuSoYa. This means he's a pretty welcome addition to any party and so far, most of his Bands are really good.

My Beef with Edge is more of a survivability issue, and with Jump, Kain does 2x damage (not counting exploiting elemental weakness) so he makes up for being gone a round but this is mostly nit picky preference stuff and personal taste so to each their own. ;)



Anyways, I kind of went off on a bit of a tangent there. Though with Leonora, her White Magic is still to par (or close enough to it) with Rosa's and Porom's right? I mean, I get your point about not needing her if you already have Rosa or Porom on your team, but isn't Leonora able to replace Rosa and Porom without much difficulty, seeing how she learns every white magic spell except for Hold? Or is her Spirit too low to have her be a main healer? Also, when you said she was like Tellah or FuSoYa, in what way is she like them? Are her stat growths really bad or does her MP start and always remain low? How is her MP compared to other mages?

The Tellah/FuSoYa reference is simply just acknowledging she can use both White and Black magic similar to both, statistically, she's a different beast all together, heavy in spirit and MP, low in INT. She is a white mage first and foremost and her Black magic is a bit sub-par and very slow to grow. Beyond that, she is fine to switch out with Porom and Rosa as a healer, but I would check on Bands at that point, cause I always felt Rosa had much better Bands than Leonora with more core characters. Yet, this is a preference thing. If you plan on using the Twins, Leonora is a perfect companion cause she gets several good Bands with both of them. Her usefulness will ultimately be based on who you plan to use for your final party.


Regarding Ursula and Luca, what are their disadvantages compared to Yang and Cid? You said Ursula was like a mini-Yang, so does that mean that her attack power is lower than Yang's? Also, what advantages does Cid have over Lu... wait. Never mind that question. You only get to use Cid for a long enough time in the final tale. I guess I'll save that question for later.From what I've noticed, she doesn't hit as hard as he does, nor does she get as good of HP growth. Her speed might be better but that could also be my imagination. Choosing Yang over her will come down to how useful you feel their skills are and their Bands (unless you plan on using both, then have funny kicking ass... literally ;) ). In honesty its a toss up for me. Kick has been powered down from the DS version but is still a mean ability if a bit slow. Chakra as a I mention is a fairly good healing skill that cost nothing and has a quick cast time and even heals a few status ailments, Tenketsu is a potentially powerful move and as I said, once its learned it should be her default move unless speed is a priority. Yang gets to keep focus which is pretty brutal when used right and get counter guard which is like Cecil's cover except Yang will counterattack if he guards his target, this move is pretty useful but Yang sadly doesn't seem to have the auto-form of it so don't expect him to protect near death allies like Cecil would. As I said, it comes down to preference. Yang has superior stats but I haven't really leveled Ursala completely so there is a chance she'll jump up to be equal with Yang.

The big difference between both is in Bands, Yang gets most of his with his daughter and the classic cast where as Ursala is the opposite, getting most with her father and the new characters and kid characters. So this will be based off party choices.

As for Luca... It is really hard to tell cause I only played her in Rydia's story and frankly, I feel like Rydia was played with kiddy gloves in terms of powerful enemies. In Kain's chapter where I'm using Cid, I'm up against some tough and powerful enemies who can quickly decimate my party. So Cid definetly feels weaker than Luca but I have no idea how she would have fared against the stuff I'm up against in Kain's chapter or the starting chapter where he's also playable. She could easily be just as flimsy. Skill wise, I like Luca better and so far I like her Bands better as well.



And do you think you could elaborate more on the Eblan Four in terms of who's the most and who's the least useful? I read quite a bit about them on the FF Wiki, but I'm kind of wanting some input based on personal experience. I know Gekkou has stats like Cid's/Luca's, Zangetsu has stats like Kain's, Izayoi has white mage like stats, and Tsukinowa is like a weaker but faster Edge. But in what order would you put the Eblan Four from most to least useful?I wasn't impressed with them tbh, Gekkou is definetly the brute force of the team with his axes and his ability to throw stars and use fire ninjutsu, he's probably my second favorite. His big downfall is that despite being a good front line fighter in terms of attack power, he doesn't have terribly high HP and defense from what I played of him. He can take a hit better than the other members of the team, but that is really not saying much since breathing heavy would KO most of them. The defense deal is a big issue, I literally had to place all of them in the back row as soon as I could control them and when I had them all in a team with Edge, I was doing some heavy reviving. Maybe once they get some serious levels, they will improve but that might be an issue since they have issues getting through a fight alive.

Izayoi is... quite frankly she's pretty awful, she's a sub-par healer, her ninjutsu is strong but she focuses on defense and healing and you have white mages better suited for it. She's also pretty weak even in the party, she's the weakest link. Her special ability Illusion is next to worthless

Zangetsu has the Kain deal going for him, but he doesn't have Kain's power and durability. As you mention, Kain can take a hit on the field, Zangetsu really can't. He needs his Flying Kite move to stay alive. His Lighting Ninjutsu is pretty good though.

Tsukinowa is probably the most frail of the lot in terms of defense but oddly enough he's my favorite. He's fast, he has pretty good attack power since he's the only member that can Duel Wield, Boomerangs allow him to attack from the backrow. His Wind Ninjutsu is okay but, his real strength comes from getting abilites like Image which help to keep him alive and not bleeding through MP and items to stay alive, and it allows him to fight in the front row since his high speed means he'll most likely attack first.

The other issue with the group is that their Bands are pretty small and selective. The bulk of them are with each other and with Edge; they each get maybe two Bands that coorelates with their personal story paths Gekkou (Yang and Ursala) Iyazoi (Leonora and Palom) Zangetsu (Luca) and Tsukinowa (Porom) but the are really limited if you intend on using old standbys like Cecil, Rosa, or Rydia. I kind of feel like the Eblan Four doesn't work well separate, their a packaged deal if you wan to get their full potential. If you can get them good gear and raise their levels high enough to actually start evading attacks, you've got a pretty decent team, especially with Edge. They are certainly fun characters and fun to play as but I don't necessarily see long term potential with them, but that's my opinion.

Bastian
05-31-2011, 11:49 PM
I really enjoyed Ceodore for all his awesome bands, but his attack is so weak, and his magic is sort of useless.

The other new characters... I didn't use them in my final party. If I remember correctly, my final party was fairly old school. Cecil, Rosa, Kain, Ceodore and Golbez. Golbez is fantastic because he attacks for a lot and has great magic and bands.

Harley... completely useless. But on the topic of her... I've only ever heard of guys named Harley, so I thought for sure that SE was implying that Edward went for the other team after losing Anna... which seemed interesting! Until I finally realized Harley was a girl. :/

Roogle
06-02-2011, 12:03 AM
Harley... completely useless. But on the topic of her... I've only ever heard of guys named Harley, so I thought for sure that SE was implying that Edward went for the other team after losing Anna... which seemed interesting! Until I finally realized Harley was a girl. :/

Why would you think that? You know that they wouldn't do anything like that being so direct about it.

Harley is named Hal in the Japanese version of the game. The developers did not try very hard to emphasize her feminine side.

The problem with her is that she will never have a much stronger attack than a magic user because all of her weapons are classified as weapons that magic users use, so she will share their attack power no matter what. Additionally, she does not have particularly high strength and Izayoi probably outperforms her when it comes to damaging with Whips.

Bastian
06-02-2011, 01:49 AM
Harley... completely useless. But on the topic of her... I've only ever heard of guys named Harley, so I thought for sure that SE was implying that Edward went for the other team after losing Anna... which seemed interesting! Until I finally realized Harley was a girl. :/

Why would you think that? You know that they wouldn't do anything like that being so direct about it.
Because the character's name was Harley. I've only met two real life people named Harley in my time, and they were both guys. And then there's a tv character named Harley that's a guy. And then people usually associate the name Harley with the motorcycle, which is marketed as super masculine... so... I assumed Harley was a dude.

Besides, Squeenix has done the gay thing a few times. In Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time an NPC asks you (if you're playing a female) to lie the creepy guy who is pursing her and claim that you are a lesbian couple, and you later have to to return for your "date." :P

Anyway, Harley is useless and SE was just trying to find some way to make us care about Edward moving on and finding a new love and the only way they could figure to do that was to give us a weak character. Ugh. Probably would have made more sense for Edward to fall for a badass female Dragoon or something.



Harley is named Hal in the Japanese version of the game. The developers did not try very hard to emphasize her feminine side.

The problem with her is that she will never have a much stronger attack than a magic user because all of her weapons are classified as weapons that magic users use, so she will share their attack power no matter what. Additionally, she does not have particularly high strength and Iyazoi probably outperforms her when it comes to damaging with Whips.[/QUOTE]

Evastio
06-07-2011, 05:19 PM
The other new characters... I didn't use them in my final party. If I remember correctly, my final party was fairly old school. Cecil, Rosa, Kain, Ceodore and Golbez. Golbez is fantastic because he attacks for a lot and has great magic and bands.
Good to hear that Golbez is awesome. Even in the original FFIV, I always wanted him to join my team ever since I found out he wasn't really evil during the Giant of Bab-il scene.

How does his attack compare to Cecil's and Kain's? I know his Black Magic is quite limited, but he gets all the crucial Black Magic spells. Though I'm guessing his black magic is weaker than Palom's or Rydia's, right?

Roogle
06-07-2011, 09:38 PM
I believe the damage difference between Golbez, Palom, and Rydia is actually fairly negligible as Golbez is able to equip heavy armor and other weapons in addition to the traditional mage equipment. His equipment is so varied that you can equip him similar to Palom or Rydia and have him perform equally to them.

black orb
06-08-2011, 12:18 AM
>>> Tsukinowa is badass, I wish I could play him without the other ninjas..:luca:

Roogle
06-10-2011, 01:10 AM
I posted a list of proposed character adjustments at a thread over at the GameFAQs Message Board for Final Fantasy IV: Complete Collection (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615911-final-fantasy-iv-the-complete-collection).

Proposed Changes:

Luca:
- Analyze has a dramatically increased success rate and allows you to view the Bestiary entry for the monster in the battle by pressing Triangle during its use.
- Analyze will lower the defense of any mechanical enemy.
- Big Throw has a shorter charge time.
- Luca has an inherent "Strong Against Machines" effect.

Calca:
- The effects of Jive are now selectable with charge times for each ability. For example, Binding Glare takes much less longer to use than Frost Blast. There is a chance that the ability will fail.

Brina:
- The effects of Dance are now selectable with charge times for each ability. The charge times vary per ability. For example, Haste Dance takes much longer to use than Cure Dance. There is a chance that the ability will fail.

Eblan Four:

- The damage formula of ninjutsu has been adjusted to make it more powerful despite the low intelligence of all ninjas.
- The Wheel of Elements damage formula has been adjusted and can now Break Damage Limit.
- The speed of all ninjas has been increased slightly.

Izayoi:

- Izayoi gains the ability to dual wield.
- Heal Pill is now instant cast. The amount of HP recovered by Heal Pill has increased dramatically. Heal Pill can cure Poison and Blind.
- Healing Salve is now instant cast. The amount of HP recovered by Healing Salve has increased dramatically. Healing Salve can cure Poison, Blind, Paralysis, Silence, and Berserk.
- The Frostwave Band has been changed to the Healing Waters Band. Izayoi and Leonora combine their powers to cure most status effects and restore HP to the party.
- The Phantom Lightflies Band has been adjusted to cast Healing Salve and Smelling Salts on the entire party.
- Izayoi gains a new band with Edge that revives a knocked out party member and grants them the Blink Status.
- Upon completing her individual mission, the Illusions ability can target the entire enemy party.

Gekkou:

- Gekkou gains the ability to dual wield.
- The damage formula for Payback Wave has been adjusted. Payback Wave will do additional damage if Gekkou is low on HP that is no longer based on exact HP amounts.
- Upon completing his individual mission, Gekkou's Throw ability becomes identical to Edge's Throw ability.

Zangetsu:

- Zangetsu gains the ability to dual wield.
- Human Kite has been adjusted to have a much larger charge time in the air, allowing Zangetsu to avoid enemy attacks for a prolonged period of time.

Tsukinowa:

- Tsukinowa gains a new band with Edge that casts Restore Weed on the entire party.
- Upon completing his individual mission, Tsukinowa's Steal ability has a dramatically increased success rate.

Palom:

- Bluff only affects Palom. Using it cannot set off any counterattack from the enemy party.

Porom:

- Pray has an additional chance to heal Poison, Blind, Paralysis, Silence, and Curse.

Edward:
- Edward's class has changed from Royal to King.
- The effects of Bardsong are now selectable like in the DS version of Final Fantasy IV. The charge time for each song varies. For example, Hastemarch takes much longer to cast than Life's Anthem. There is a chance that the song will fail.
- Healing Harmony has merged with Life's Anthem to restore additional HP to the party.
- Edward starts with the Economical Ring in his chapter.

Harley:

- Harley's class has changed from Secretary to Scholar.
- Piercing Sight now has perfect accuracy. It can dispel all positive status effects on an enemy target including Reflect. It has a slight chance to cast Libra and give the enemy a new weakness which will be displayed by the animation.
- Gil Toss has a modified damage formula allowing the attack to do much more damage based on the current Gil of the party.
- Harley has an inherent Gil Band v.2 effect.
- Harley has an inherent Economical Ring effect. This makes her able to use any recovery item at double potency.
- Any item that Harley uses that produces a magical effect in battle will be calculated as if she were the one casting the spell. This means items like Red Fang or Stardust will do damage based on her own statistics rather than a flat value.

Cid:
- Analyze has a dramatically increased success rate and allows you to view the Bestiary entry for the monster in the battle by pressing Triangle during its use.
- Analyze will attempt to inflict Stop or Confusion on a mechanical target. If successful, a message will be displayed showing what Cid has done.
- Risk Strike has become Upgrade. Upgrade allows Cid to consume an elemental item to enchant the weapon of any party member including himself.
- Cid has an inherent "Strong Against Machines" effect.

What do you think?