Officially :bou::bou::bou::bou:ty news.....

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Loss of the Liberty Belle. (http://www.therepublic.com/view/local_story/Crashed_plane_was_slated_for_C_1308060798/)

It's not some people's thing, but we just lost one of our B-17's from WWII. There are only 15 or so left now. Restoring it was a big project that took the collective effort, time, and love of many, many people to make possible. Now it's gone. Even if the crew did nothing wrong I know they still feel so awful. :(

I'm glad I had a chance to see it once.

[Madame Adequate]

Yeah, saw this on the news earlier, it's a damned shame.

Even so, I'm sure there are people out there spergy enough to restore her a second time.

[G13]

I believe that was at an air show here about a week or so ago. My buddy and his dad got an up close look and watched it take off and have been talking about how cool it was ever since. That's really too bad about it.

[Shlup]

Wow, I was all prepared to give a minimal :bou::bou::bou::bou: about the actual liberty bell (http://www.ushistory.org/tour/liberty-bell.htm) being somehow destroyed, but now I see this is about something I can't even be bothered to give a single :bou::bou::bou::bou: about. Interesting.

Fifteen is a lot of old planes still hanging around. We don't need to hang on to and revere every piece of metal from days past. Remembering old stuff is good, but insisting on keeping it all is called hoarding, and they have a TV show about it. Which is a good show, btw.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Like I said, it's not everyone's interest or something they might give a damn about. Even so, your views are pretty callous.

This was one nicely restored example that a lot of people put tons of sweat equity into. The owner of the plane started it because his father was part of the crew of the original Liberty Belle. Yes there are others, and yes it's only an object. You might not need every piece of history, but 15 examples (flying and not) spread out across the US and Europe doesn't seem extreme to me. My biggest point was the fact that many people had put a lot of time into the project, and it was lost. Apparently empathy was also lost today. :roll2

No lives were lost, and that's the most important part.

[Shlup]

I feel sorry for the guy who owned it, sure, but you yourself said it's "not everyone's interest" (which is quite the understatement) and that guy ain't here.

[escobert]

Wow, I was all prepared to give a minimal :bou::bou::bou::bou: about the actual liberty bell (http://www.ushistory.org/tour/liberty-bell.htm) being somehow destroyed, but now I see this is about something I can't even be bothered to give a single :bou::bou::bou::bou: about. Interesting.

Fifteen is a lot of old planes still hanging around. We don't need to hang on to and revere every piece of metal from days past. Remembering old stuff is good, but insisting on keeping it all is called hoarding, and they have a TV show about it. Which is a good show, btw.

how is keeping a piece of history hoarding? Does that mean museums are just a hoarders heaven? :p

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I feel sorry for the guy who owned it, sure, but you yourself said it's "not everyone's interest" (which is quite the understatement) and that guy ain't here.

To me, even if I don't care about something, it's a bummer to watch someone else have a crap situation happen to them. Like if a friend of a friend has a tire blow out, loses control, and totals their Toyota Camry. Well, the driver was fine, there's a million billion Camrys, and insurance will cover it. I'll still for bad the guy.

This is a piece of history lost that a lot of people put a lot of effort into. That's all. I'm not mad, everyone has their own opinion. I just wasn't aware that the owner had to be around for other people to care. Must be a new rule.

[fire_of_avalon]

Super lame. I think a lot about how the people and things from such a pivotal time in world history are slowly fading away. It's sad to think about. I should volunteer at the VFW or something.

[Bunny]

I wonder what the reaction would be if I said that the Liberty Belle is an insignificant "piece of history." Quotes because it isn't.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I wonder what the reaction would be if I said that the Liberty Belle is an insignificant "piece of history." Quotes because it isn't.

Granted, it's not the original. The plane never saw a tour of duty in Europe. Only one B-17 left has. This plane was an airframe built right near the end of 1945. Still, it's from a period in time very close to the original and was redone well.

I think we know the reaction. Some would agree, some would be indifferent, and some would be offended. Obvious enough.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, but this is even worse news. So far, not a great week for aviation.
Goodyear Blimp crash. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2002935/Pilot-killed-Goodyear-blimp-plunges-ground-flames-Germany.html)

I'll try to find something more cheerful. It's time to balance out the crappy news.

[Madonna]

Human beings like having physical objects as reminders of the past. They are nice. We could just retain the knowledge, obviously, but having something tangible makes the whole thing that much more real.

I do not see how someone can scrapbook and not want to keep a WWII era B-17 around. Plus, planes are cool.

[Bunny]

You can't put a B-17 on a bookshelf.

[Goldenboko]

You can't put a B-17 on a bookshelf.

You can't fly a scrapbook.

[Shlup]

I feel sorry for the guy who owned it, sure, but you yourself said it's "not everyone's interest" (which is quite the understatement) and that guy ain't here.

To me, even if I don't care about something, it's a bummer to watch someone else have a crap situation happen to them. Like if a friend of a friend has a tire blow out, loses control, and totals their Toyota Camry. Well, the driver was fine, there's a million billion Camrys, and insurance will cover it. I'll still for bad the guy.

This is a piece of history lost that a lot of people put a lot of effort into. That's all. I'm not mad, everyone has their own opinion. I just wasn't aware that the owner had to be around for other people to care. Must be a new rule.

I'm not trying to make it sound like you can't make a thread about anything you want, but, yeah... random rich dude losing his toy isn't breaking my heart over here. And you probably wouldn't make a thread about a friend of a friend's tire blowing out in the first place.

And the thing never even saw combat?? It's a three million dollar toy belonging to some rich guy I've never met. Poor little rich dude. I weep.

Now, your interests are your interests, so if you're sad about the plane being broken then you go right ahead. I'm sure there's plenty of stuff I'm interested in that you could not give less of a smurf about. I just felt like saying my opinion because, well, I can and I was bored.

[escobert]

I'll make sure i weep for you next time you complain about kids or who kows what stupid thing you'll complain about next :p

[Bunny]

You can't put a B-17 on a bookshelf.

You can't fly a scrapbook.

Well, in all fairness, you can't fly this B-17 either.

[Shlup]

I'll make sure i weep for you next time you complain about kids or who kows what stupid thing you'll complain about next :p

The stupidity of the younger generation is something that affects us all.

[Goldenboko]

You can't put a B-17 on a bookshelf.

You can't fly a scrapbook.

Well, in all fairness, you can't fly this B-17 either.

Therein lies the point of the thread.

[rubah]

in 2100, someone painstakingly recreates the original Turn of the Millennium hardware needed to run the internet, which doesn't exist anymore because everyone is all in the cloud in 2100, shlup's head, preserved in amniotic fluid a la Richard Nixon will laugh when the guide to cyberspace encounters a General Protection Fault, short circuiting the rebuilt cpus, and causing it all to go down in flames.

Then, when everyone else has exited the building, she realizes that she was forgotten, and the electrical fire creeps closer to her living glass coffin...

[Shlup]

Why would you even say that?!

I want a robot body. Someone start working on my robot body!

[rubah]

xD

[NorthernChaosGod]

But I like your human body.

[Shlup]

Me too, but it apparently will not save me from having my head boiled.

But now we're completely off the topic, and, despite rich-man toy tragedies not being my personal forte, that is rude of us, so I shall insist we stop this tangent and return to the original topic. /responsible

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Shlup insists that this is nothing more than some rich guy with too much time and money losing a useless, pointless toy. (A rich guy who apparently has made millions running an auto body repair shop in Ga. I own and run an auto repair shop and I'm by no means rich. I must have missed that seminar.....) Even so, I thought there might be some people who'd be interested in learning about this plane.

The link gives a little history of this plane, it's condition when found by the guy, and it's restoration. It also gives a history of the B-17 in general. This was a labor of love made possible by the sponsorship of some cool avionics companies, and tons of time, sweat, and money of many many interested people. (Or maybe all those individuals were false identities made by the one weird rich recluse so he could move money around freely to avoid taxes and also make it look like he had friends who cared. Rich people do that. He makes a number of small bank accounts and a few fake LLC's. He takes money from them and donates it to the "Liberty Belle Foundation". Obviously it's a fake foundation, and when all the money is there he sets the plane on fire and walks away with the insurance claim. So evil, but so brilliant. Touche, rich bumpkin from Georgia. Touche.) Either way it's a neat site.

I saw this plane at an air show once, and there was a veteran there who was crew on a different bomber. Still, seeing the plane really made him happy and he told me about some of the missions he went on. They were interesting (and scared the hell out of me). I know he wouldn't tell a complete stranger like me all the details, but I enjoyed listening and he enjoyed talking. If it makes those gentlemen and ladies who served during that time happy to see it in the air, it seems like a good enough reason to me. These things are really impressive in the flight. If you like this sort of thing, and get the opportunity to see one you should definitely try to make it out.

Here's the site. Liberty Belle. (http://www.libertyfoundation.org/index.html)

P.S. I'm not trying to pick a fight with Shlup. She gave her opinion (several times :p) on exactly how she felt. She's well within her rights to do that. Clearly we'll never agree on the significance of things like this, or this event. That's all fine and good with me, and there's no hard feelings on my end. Cest la vie.

[Goldenboko]

Don't worry sharky! Next time put your thread in EoEo, see, there anyone questioning you is flaming and wrong, whereas in GC anyone agreeing with you is them being non-funny and lame! It's just the cycle of things here, an endless cycle, repeating over time if you will. You'll get a hang of things eventually! I believe in you. :)

[Shlup]

I don't feel like you're trying to pick a fight with me. ;) You're entitled to be interested in things I think are lame, as I'm sure is the case in reverse. xD

First thing the website says: "Many folks are asking how they can help. The best help we could get right now is for you to buy merchandise, join the foundation, and/or donate." I'm going to do you a favor and refrain from giving my opinion on that idea. Ha

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Don't worry sharky! Next time put your thread in EoEo, see, there anyone questioning you is flaming and wrong, whereas in GC anyone agreeing with you is them being non-funny and lame! It's just the cycle of things here, an endless cycle, repeating over time if you will. You'll get a hang of things eventually! I believe in you. :)

Nah, it's all fine. If lives had been lost I'd have put it in the important discussion thread. This was just a bummer because it's a neat piece of history. Not important enough to go anywhere besides GC I figured.

The blimp crash was quite a bit sadder. :(