An attempt to resolve the whole Jenova/Sephiroth thing

[dylamug]

I just read the Jenova & Sephiroth thread by Forsaken Lover, and while i don't agree with the whole "sephiroth was just a pawn" thing, it does raise an interesting question, of who was cotrolling who?

So first of all, reasons why i don't think jenova was just using sephiroth:
-the ultimania thing says so. sure, that guide isn't the gospel or anything, but one wonders why would they lie? saying they lied cause they figured admitting the seph was a pawn would hurt sales is a bit of a stretch to say the least.

-why would the people who made the game go through such lenghts to aggrandize sephiroth's character if he really was just a mindless pawn?
the powerful scene of him engulfed in flames, a whole song written about him with a choir chanting his name, etc. they DEFINETLEY inteded sephiroth to be the main villain.

-if jenova was the one controlling things, why would she bother disguising herself as sephiroth? you might thing "cause that was the only way she could get cloud to follow". well, i don't think so:
1)he had jenova cells in him he'd be drawn to her no matter what.
2)even if she didn't pretend to be sephiroth and instead said "hi i'm actually jenova, not sephiroth, and i'm going to destroy the planet kthxbye" i'm pretty sure that would have gotten cloud and co.'s attention anyway.

-just before the final battle, jenova synthesis rushes at you.
why would she battle you when she could just send sephiroth to do it?
because:
1)sephiroth is controlling her
or
2)jenova is trying to protect sephiroth.

-in the final battle sephiroth is shown to be much much stronger than jenova, making it unlikely that she was the one in charge.

-even after jenova is completely destroyed (except for the cells remaining in sephiroth) after the synthesis battle, the red stuff that's strangling holy is still there!
seems like it's sephiroth's will that's doing this.
(you could argue that jenova is still in control of sephiroth at this point, but she was just almost completely obliterated, to say that the tiny percentage of her that survived was enough to control sephiroth seems unlikely)
So, here is what i think did happen. i have two different theories:

1)throughout the entire game, sephiroth sees jenova as his mother. maybe she also sees him as her son. and so they're bassicaly cooperating.

or, much more likely:
2)jenova is like a virus. she doesn't *want* anything in the human sense of the word. much like a virus, she just acts on auto-pilot. also much like a virus, she doesn't have a plan, a goal or a will, she just infects planets for the same reason a virus infects a body.
sephiroth had the advantage of being BOTH a sentient being AND a part of jenova, so he just "hitched a ride" on the whole reunion thing which would've happened anyway, merely giving pushes in the right direction (such as deciding when the reunion will start).

according to theory number 2, the sephiroth you chase throughout the game IS a projection of his will, not because jenova couldn't resist it, because she wasn't trying to. since jenova isn't sentient, sephiroth uses his connection to her to push her in the right direction.

[champagne supernova]

The last point of the argument is the one that makes most sense, although I'd probably go for Jenova being an animal or something - operating purely on instincts. Viruses I think mutate when they pass through hosts, whereas Jenova just made the ancients go crazy and become monsters (I think that's what the game said).

[Edge7]

The way I see it, during the Nibelheim incident, Sephiroth fought his way to Jenova as a result of Reunion, his madness stemming from both that and Sephiroth's shock at everything he had learned in the Shinra Mansion. Everything after that point was Sephiroth using his connection with Jenova to manifest itself as Sephiroth's avatar for a good chunk of the game.

[Sephiroth]

There is no doubt for those who can read instead of trusting John Brittenham.Hojo never lies with his informations. He says Sephiroth uses JENOVA when he arrives at the Knowlespole. JENOVA is an alien which can think like a human bein, but wants to follow its instincts mainly: Inject other lifeforms its viral cells, absorb life & reunite.Sephiroth, who is also the real Sephiroth during the journey and Advent Children, since it is his original soul and conciousness has those powers because Lucrecia got the cells. Not Sephiroth himself. She says, the JENOVA inside her didn't let her die. Sephiroth was created by the JENOVA cells fusin with Lucrecia's egg and Hojo's sperm right at the beginning. He then became even stronger in the lifestream - only strong-minded beings like Sephiroth or Zack resist it - absorbed life power and knowledge/memories (which are the source of power in Final Fantasy VII) and learned to use his alien powers.

[silentenigma]

For the record, I don't remember anyone in the last thread asserting that Sephiroth was a mindless puppet anyway... I know I didn't, or at least didn't intentionally. It's a 'fine line' kind of thing, I think.

[Bolivar]

LOL did people really say "the only wrote that he acted of his own will in the ultimania to increase sales"? Because that's fairly insane.

I definitely agree with dylamug, especially that last part of the theory about Jenova just being a virus (or as CS suggested, maybe an animal) and acting on its base desires.

Jenova to me travels from planet to planet taking over its life force but Sephiroth had his own plan involving the Black Materia and Meteor in order become one with the planet. He gained this through the knowledge he absorbed in the life stream and had a complex way on executing it. Also, when you talk to the Clones, they say Sephiroth is calling them, not Jenova.