Deadliest Character: Lightning vs. Cloud. WHO IS DEADLIEST!?

[Laddy]

The Final Fantasy series has had many character and warrior prove their worth in combat. However, they have never fought each other. What happens when we re-write gaming history? What happens when we pit famous men and women against each other? What happens when we see who is the best warrior?



http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/FabulaNovaCrystallisFinalFantasyXIII/Lightning1.jpg
Lightning. Superhuman soldier-turned-freedom fighter, Lightning bravely led a group of outcasts called l'Cie to save the very people who outcasted her. Agile, cunning, and quick-thinking, Lightning mastered versatile fightning with the Blaze Edge gunblade and Paradigm system!


http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/TerraAquaVenXehanort/Movies%20And%20Games/CloudStrife.jpg
Cloud Strife. Genetically-enhanced warrior who toppeled an evil corporate empire. With a shattered memory and unstable ego, Cloud fought control from an evil being to destory his rival and save an entire planet twice from extinction. Using his iconic Buster Sword and Materia system, Cloud combined brawn and brains in one unique package!

Who. Is. Deadliest?

Our scientist, doctor, tactician, and all-around Renaissance he-man, Laddy, will do the research it takes to see which of these warriors. He will determine each character's weapon, abilities, statistics, and fighting styles to see who is the deadliest character!

Check back daily(?) for updates on how the fight is going! After Laddy evaluates each of the areas and crowns who gets the edge, he will write a simulation of the battles and determine the victor!

[Laddy]

Weapon: Blaze Edge vs. Buster Sword

Each warrior will be bringing in a unique and iconic weapon. Both are futuristic swords with completely different uses. Let's examine the blades.


Blaze Edge
The Blaze Edge is a sword-gun combo. It's light and easily storable, perfect for Lightning's acrobatic combat style. Not only is it a great sword, it's an effective rifle as well.
Pros: Fast, flexible, light, long-range, has two uses.
Cons: Smaller, could be argued its status as both as gun and sword harms its use, making both less effective.


Buster Sword
Cloud's iconic buster sword is a seven-foot marvel of a weapon, suprisingly easy to carry and has a devastating attack power and range, making it a great chopping weapon.
Pros: Devastatingly strong, fairly good range, gives good blocking ability.
Cons: Still slower, a mid-range weapon is still only one range, more awkward and clumsy to recover from if one should miss.


Edge: Blaze Edge. It's faster and it has two uses. Strength and power is excellent; but in a battle, options and speed gives you more to work with both physically and mentally.. Blaze Edge all the way.

[VeloZer0]

In FF7:AC Cloud chopped some weapons in half that were eerily reminiscent of the blade edge. ;)

[Laddy]

In FF7:AC Cloud chopped some weapons in half that were eerily reminiscent of the blade edge. ;)
I'm not counting AC as it's not a game. And besides, with the Blaze Edge you don't even have to get in his range. It's faster, it's lighter, and it's also a gun. The extra options lets you get as close as you want to, not as you need to.

[TrollHunter]

Rooting for lightning on this one.

[Rase]

I can't read Cloud's stuff because of your stupid blue color choice, so I guess Lightning wins.

[Depression Moon]

From what I heard Lightning can only have 1 summon in her game and Cloud can have as many as there are materia slots for his weapon and accessory. Cloud also has the power of fanbase and SE corporate backing.

[Laddy]

Abilities: Paradigm vs. Materia

Both characters are armed with an interesting source of abilities. Lightning comes equipped with a job systemesque Paradigm system and Cloud has his item-based Materia system.

Paradigm System
FFXIII's Paradigm system allows her to swap between predetermined party sets. Lightning specializes in Commando ( a fighting role), Ravager (a spellcasting role), and Medic (a healing role). Her stats are unaffected by changing paradgims.
Pros: Can completely change roles on the fly with no detriment to skills, HP, and such. Her summon, Odin, is very powerful, capable of changing into a vehicle.
Cons: Has only one summon, limited offensive/defensive capabilities in certain paradigms.

Materia System
FFVII's Materia system is an item-based system in which various orbs known as Materia are junctioned into equipment to change stats, spells, summons, and abilities. Cloud can technically use any combination of them.
Pros: Gives an extreme degree of flexibility, can allow you multiple sources to draw from.
Cons: Weighting down too much Materia lowers the abilities of all of them as a whole, affect attributes, can't change them mid-battle.


Edge: Materia. A very close one. However, Materia is very powerful, and if Cloud can take advantage of his strengths and come prepared with a good selection of Materia, he can become quite powerful. Plus, he has limitless spells and summons available. As long as he plans well and packs modestly, he should be pretty tough.

[champagne supernova]

Plus, he has limitless spells and summons available. As long as he plans well and packs modestly, he should be pretty tough.

Limited by his MP. And you can only use a summon as many times as you have stars (I think), so you can only use a summon 5 times at most in one battle.

Lightning summon's based on skill points, isn't it? So that's limited. But spells are on AP, so that's unlimited (Ravagers use spells, as do Medics, obviously). Lightning can also go into any role, so that includes Saboteur, Sentinel and Synergist.

[Slothy]

Plus, he has limitless spells and summons available. As long as he plans well and packs modestly, he should be pretty tough.

Limited by his MP. And you can only use a summon as many times as you have stars (I think), so you can only use a summon 5 times at most in one battle.

It's not like it really matters that much. How many times will he really need to w-summon kotr before lightning dies anyway? Let's not even get into a final attack and phoenix combo.

[Laddy]

Plus, he has limitless spells and summons available. As long as he plans well and packs modestly, he should be pretty tough.

Limited by his MP. And you can only use a summon as many times as you have stars (I think), so you can only use a summon 5 times at most in one battle.

Lightning summon's based on skill points, isn't it? So that's limited. But spells are on AP, so that's unlimited (Ravagers use spells, as do Medics, obviously). Lightning can also go into any role, so that includes Saboteur, Sentinel and Synergist.

I mean selection. And besides, Lightning has to change roles for her to do anything else.

[Laddy]

Statistics: Lightning vs. Cloud.


Lightning
Lightning is a fantastic physical attacker and competent attack spellcaster. What makes her interesting is that she's also really, really damn fast.
Pros: Strong, Sturdy, Good Attack Spellcaster, Very Fast
Cons: Limited Healing, Not Quite as Physically Strong as Cloud.


Cloud
Like Lightning, Cloud is also physically strong and a solid mage. Some would argue he is slightly better in both areas. However, Cloud has the distinction of being one of the slowest characters in FFVII.
Pros: Even Stronger and Sturdier than Lightning. Better spellcaster and healer.
Cons: Not particularly notable difference otherwise. Much, much slower.

Edge: Lightning. Let's be real, the comparitive differences between Cloud and Lightning aren't very big at all. However, Lightning is clearly much, much, faster. Both in-game and during FMV's. Cloud's slightly tougher, but it doesn't mean much when Lightning strikes.

[TrollHunter]

Ohhhhhh yeah~

[Laddy]

Comabt Style: Guardian Corps vs. SOLDIER.


Guardian Corps
Lightning's fighting style is stealthy and quick, using a variety of jumps, flips, and rolls to evade and capture the target by suprise. She uses a good mix of close and long range, magic and combat. Essentially, she's a lot like a Ninja, getting in and out quickly and efficiently. Lightning attained the rank of seargant.
Pros: Very fast and agile. Uses a variety of acrobatics to make her fearsome. Can evade damage with her speed. Higher rank.
Cons: Lacking in brute strength, better at evading attacks than deflecting them.


SOLDIER
Cloud's SOLDIER style taught him the use of the rifle, with his knowledge of the Buster Sword being passed down to him by his buddy Zack. Essentially, this style makes his a physical powerhouse, cleaving through foes with amazing strength. Also, he's trained more as a soldier than an operative, so one can argue that's he's the better combatant. He reached Second Class.
Pros: Relies on brute force, making his hits more devastating. Taught as a straight-up warrior.
Cons: Lower rank than Lightning, his straight-up training gives him a lack of tricks.

Edge: Guardian Corps. This was a close one, but Lightning's superior rank makes her more versatile, more able to adapt, and faster. Although Cloud isn't far behind; his use of strength and more straight-up combat training makes him formidable as well.

So, there we have it. We've evaluated four areas. Weapons. Abilities. Statistics. Combat Style. Although, how does this factor in? In a battle of supersoldiers, will it be male or female out on top? Speed versus Strength? Substantial Style or Stylistic Substance? The battle is on its way!


Lightning vs. Cloud


Who. Is. Deadliest!?
(Yes, this is supposed to be pretty cheesy. The show Deadliest Warrior is awesomely so, so I'm following their example.)

[champagne supernova]

Cloud's SOLDIER style taught him the use of the rifle, with his knowledge of the Buster Sword being passed down to him by his buddy Zack. Essentially, this style makes his a physical powerhouse, cleaving through foes with amazing strength. Also, he's trained more as a soldier than an operative, so one can argue that's he's the better combatant. He reached Second Class.

Sorry to keep doing this to you, but Cloud was never in SOLDIER. He was just a standard infantryman. That's why he became nuts when he was injected with Jenova cells, unlike SOLDIER recruits (although Sephiroth probably did lose it, he was less augmented and more created).

[VeloZer0]

The amount you can do with materia WAY exceeds what you can do with paridgms. You give lightning an advantage because she has a sword/gun? Long Range materia. You give her an advantage in speed? Speed Plus Materia. Not to mention all the crazy self supporting combos you can hook together with a clever set up of support materia. Cloud can be set up to outperform Lightning in any of her paradigms, and do it all at the same time.


Sorry to keep doing this to you, but Cloud was never in SOLDIER. He was just a standard infantryman. That's why he became nuts when he was injected with Jenova cells, unlike SOLDIER recruits (although Sephiroth probably did lose it, he was less augmented and more created)
In game he says his body has the same physical makeup of someone in soldier.

[Laddy]

The amount you can do with materia WAY exceeds what you can do with paridgms. You give lightning an advantage because she has a sword/gun? Long Range materia. You give her an advantage in speed? Speed Plus Materia. Not to mention all the crazy self supporting combos you can hook together with a clever set up of support materia. Cloud can be set up to outperform Lightning in any of her paradigms, and do it all at the same time.
Keep in mind, if he uses too much Materia he becomes significantly weaker. Speed Plus Materia only does so much. Lightning can easily swap to Synergist and haste herself, go to Saboteur and slow Cloud, and go back to a combat role as quick as a flash. That's why I handed it to her in various categories. Cloud can come in more powerful (which is why Materia got the edge), but Lightning can adjust easily to any situation mid-battle and on the fly. ;)

Anyway, next post contains the results!

[Laddy]

Cloud was walking through a futuristic landscape, with his Buster Sword lying lazily on his back. His eyes were filled with alertness as he stopped and casually put Materia in his Buster Sword, not looking down to see his progress. Out the corner of his eye his saw a tall young woman, Lightning. As she somersaulted down a marvel of a building she released her Blaze Edge and posed as he landed. "I'm not gonna let some overcompensating twerp with long term memory loss take me," she said aggresively deadpan. Cloud chuckled, "Well, it looks like this is gonna be fun."

Lightning instantly leaped into action, dashing at Cloud while firing bullets at him, which he deflected easily. Cloud then took a duo of fearsome strikes at Lightning, which she evaded with ease. "Looks like I'm not the only SOLDIER here," he said under his breath. "You wish," Lightning remarked as she kicked Cloud in the face, staggering him. Cloud quick regained his balance and unleashed a spell at Lightning, "Fire," he said, as the Inferno struck her down. "Dammit," Lightning remarked as she got up from her vulnerable position, "need a new plan." Lightning hopped up and swapped paradigms with a White aura enveloping her.

Cloud snarled, "What the hell is that?" Lightning propelled her hand at him, releasing a ball of energy. Cloud suddenly felt thick, unable to move very quickly. Lightning pounced at him, Cloud tried to release a strike at Lightning, just barely connecting as she almost cut a slash down his face. Lightning was promptly propelled back, while Cloud took the added time to dispel the Slowon himself. Lightning changed paradigms again, becoming enveloped in a red aura. Cloud, feeling a pulse of energy, decided to strike her with his Limit Break, Braver, running at her with full speed. Lightning, newly a Commando again, tried to awkwardly push herself up. Cloud finally exerted himself in the air, bringing his gigantic blade down on the vulnerable woman. Right as he brings down the blade a gunshot went off. Lightning, still on the ground from Cloud's strike, had shot him square in the chest. She rolls herself out of the way as the man falls down, blood trickling down his chest.

Lightning, bruised and bloodied, stood up hapharzadly, clearly injured. "You...s-seem like a nice enough guy, but a target's...a target," she stated with the fatigue clearly present in her voice. With that she saluted at the lifeless corpse, put away her Blaze Edge, and leaped out of sight.

Winner: Lightning


A choice that may not be popular, but one I stand by. Lightning has a better weapon, more versatility, and better all-around stats. That's why I find her deadlier than Cloud. Actually, I had originally planned this to be a Cloud victory, but after I noticed her movement in battle and researched that she was a Seargant, I felt she was much, much stronger than I originially thought. So while Cloud had an expansive library of skills to work with, Lightning's ability to adjust her skills as it happens makes her the Deadliest Character.

Up next: Paladin Cecil vs. Auron, starting later this week. Don't miss it!

[VeloZer0]

Speed Plus Materia only does so much
I agree raising a stat to 150% of it's original for each one is a very marginal effect.

Strength/HP only decreases from Magic and Summon Materia, of which HP Plus makes the strength trade off the only one of significance. Support, command and independent materia all have no adverse effects. With intelligent materia set up you only need a few pieces of magic & summon materia.

[Laddy]

Speed Plus Materia only does so much
I agree raising a stat to 150% of it's original for each one is a very marginal effect.

Strength/HP only decreases from Magic and Summon Materia, of which HP Plus makes the strength trade off the only one of significance. Support, command and independent materia all have no adverse effects. With intelligent materia set up you only need a few pieces of magic & summon materia.

Still, though. A lot of independent materia, while useful, has limited use in a one-on-one fight. Cloud can definitely become very powerful, but if he wants to meet Lightnin's excellent ability to cover all the bases, his other stats are going to suffer. Making Cloud a jack-of-all-trades is very damn difficult, as being overloaded with Materia with no clear focus makes him incapable of being particular good at all of them.

Cloud could either be an effective specialist, which is awesome, or a limited Renaissance Man. Lightning is versatile, but making Cloud versatile (in my experiences) made him lose effectiveness.

EDIT: Seriously, Cloud is slow as smurf. How many slots do you have to build up a crucially important stat to match up someone who could very easily haste herself and slow you in no time flat? Cloud's Materia is potentially very powerful, but when you can literally swap classes depending on the situation, it become difficult to match up.

[VeloZer0]

Well I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I feel with materia setups you can make Cloud versatile enough to cover every base to a higher level than Lightning could if she specialized to each of them individually. By equipping a single Enemy Skill materia Cloud already has her level of versatility.

[Laddy]

I completely understand, considering one can disagree so much with another makes me confident I chose a good match-up.

To me, Lightning had a better weapon, more skills, better stats, and Cloud simply doesn't have enough Materia slots to fill all the areas Lightning has to cover. Though, the opposite is perfetly valid.

I like both characters though and I feel like shit having to write Cloud dying, so I made it fairly tame. xD

Anyways, what do you think about the next one? Paladin Cecil versus Auron? I'm proud of it because I can see both men easily winning. Cecil has a selection of healing spells and great defensive equipment, while Auron can inflict statistical damage and has large HP.

[TrollHunter]

Aurons won the next one. Why is that you ask? Because he's mothersmurfing Auron!

[champagne supernova]

In game he says his body has the same physical makeup of someone in soldier.

Well he was injected with JENOVA cells, so I'm not surprised ;) But he was never trained to be in SOLDIER, although he was mentored by a SOLDIER.

[Karifean]

Auron uses Shooting Star and wins instantly.

Btw, Cloud and Lightning DID fight each other (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZGqLrreObI).

[Laddy]

Dissidia? :colbert:

[Mercen-X]

Still think you based your decision more on Cloud being an idiot that on being physically slow. There's no evading a summon and Cloud never once used one. You think that just because it's a one-on-one battle that he's gonna go in overconfident? Two slots. Fine. You didn't even mention which materia he chose. We only know he used Fire. I'll grant you that Cloud would lose because he is fairly stupid though.

[Laddy]

Lightning didn't use a summon either.

The fights are for dramatic effect, not to simulate how the battle would go down. In the show this is based off, the winner would often kill their opponent with the weakest one of the entire bunch. It's just adds to the suspense.

[Mercen-X]

the weakest one of the entire bunch.

I'm not sure what that means.
My opinion is that the ability to plan ahead by use of systems like Materia, Licenses, or Spheres, what-have-you far outranks any one character's natural abilities. These Paradigm Shift abilities, no matter how useful they may seem individually, to me at least, would not seem to be able to hold their own against any inhabitant of the Planet when properly affixed with Materia. I think even Marlene could win a battle against Lightning if only by the use of materia. Of course, if you remove this aspect entirely, that's a different story. No materia means no augmented statistics (aside from that which can be attained by use of Sources which, let's face it, is not the most efficient way to gain stats), no magic, and no special abilities aside from the character's own LIMIT Breaks (which only Cloud's group seems able to use... aside from that one kid in the training hall...). No Paradigm Shift means Lightning has to choose one mode to fight in throughout the battle. I don't know what the outcome would be then.

[Laddy]

Dude, Materia beat Paradigm Shift. And to be honest, it wasn't even close to beating Materia.

The difficulty Cloud had is that he's the inferior warrior. In every other category he was weaker. His weapon was inferior. His stats were inferior. His significantly inferior training would like affect his Materia strategy. So a questionable suggestion of Materia reflects that.

[VeloZer0]

His significantly inferior training would like affect his Materia strategy. So a questionable suggestion of Materia reflects that.
???? No, I think in game it shows quite well how he knows how to use materia. It is like saying Lightning wouldn't be able to use paradigms well because she hasn't had any formal training in them.


His significantly inferior training...
To the best of my knowledge Lightning wasn't super bad ass special ops trained, she was just regular military. Which would be somewhere in the same ballpark as the training Cloud received to be a regular member of the Shin-Ra military. The training she received definitely wasn't up to the level of SOLDIER (yes, I know Cloud never got SOLDIER training either)

[Laddy]

She reached Sergeant. :colbert:

[VeloZer0]

Sergeant, of the regular military.

[Laddy]

Higher than Cloud. And it wasn't a regular militiary. It was the Guardian Corps, ane lite force, which she was scheduled to undergo Officer training.

[VeloZer0]

From the FF13 datalogs:

"The Guardian Corps is the branch of the Sanctum military responsible for maintaining peace and stability within Cocoon.
Within their assigned jurisdictions, the soldiers of the Guardian Corps fulfill the role of police officers and protectors, working to eliminate all manner of criminal activity as well as rampaging wildlife."

Cocoon only has PSICOM and Guardian Corps, hence Guardian Corps is the name for their regular military.

Yes the level of training was higher than Cloud, I think I have said that in every single post I have made. :p But it still wasn't training anywhere close to the level both of them are currently performing at.

[Laddy]

I thought PSICOM was the lower class.

Still, I stand by that Lightning is tougher than Cloud.

[Greatermaximus]

Sadly enough to completely ruin this thread, if they had to compete against one another the game would have to balanced. They'd have to agree to a game they're equally good at to compete. That way we won't have a lop-sided betting pool.

[Mercen-X]

Lightning versus Haseo from .hack//GU


BTW, I haven't played XIII, but I'll assume that Blaze Edge is Lightning's default. Is there a history to it? Where did she get it?
You would argue that Cloud's choice of weapon would be the Buster Sword simply because it's his default when truthfully it's mostly a story byte. Personally, I've always believed that Cloud would perform better with one of the lighter swords like the Murasame or the Hardedge.


I guess by now this all's bit irrelevant. Were you going to write the next contest in this same thread or another?

[VeloZer0]

Or Ultima Weapon. For all we know it could only weigh a pound or two, being made of magic and all.

As far as I know Lightning's weapon doesn't have any story significance in the least.

[Laddy]

Tomorrow I'll do the next fight.

Hopefully you'll disagree with that one, too!

[Mercen-X]

Or Ultima Weapon. For all we know it could only weigh a pound or two, being made of magic and all.

As far as I know Lightning's weapon doesn't have any story significance in the least.

Well, of course it would be anybody's first instinct to equip Cloud with the Ultima Weapon. But that is an absolutely unique thing kin to the crystal sword. In Final Fantasy Tactics, You have to obtain the Materia Blade to make cameo Cloud useful. I have the feeling the Ultima Weapon is also composed of crystallized materia. It probably becomes lighter to wield when the user is at full strength thus the HP@MAX=ATK+ formula.

There were a lot of smaller choice swords in VII, the only reason Cloud had the Buster Sword was because it was a remnant of Zack. But who knows, Cloud could have probably wielded the memory of Zack as a weapon in itself.