I didn't like Xenosaga; would I like Xenogears?

[Edge7]

I'm not sure what it was about Xensaga that I didn't like, maybe it was the art style, maybe it was the story, maybe the story just felt convoluted to me, but I didn't like it. However, I have heard good things about Xengears, and after looking at the game a little, it looks more appealing to me. What are your thoughts? Sorry if I'm not being very specific with any issues I might have.

[BG-57]

It's an awesome game. The mech designs are elegant and combat is straightfoward since the gears are essentially extensions of the characters. The map is 3D and you can rotate the view as you go.

The music is gorgeous. Yasunori Mitsuda is one of the best video game composers ever. Listen to Crono Trigger or Chrono Cross OSTs for futher evidence.

The plot is complex and you grow to care about the characters. The complexity is sometimes a problem as you may get confused by what's happening. Also the symbolic content is almost overwhelming at times.

The other main problem is the game was rushed out so disc 2 suffers from too many cutscenes and not enough action.

But it's well worth the time to play.

[Bolivar]

Being from the previous generation, Xenogears maintains a lot of the RPG charm 16 and 32 bit games had that started to fade in the PS2 era. I also know the voice acting tends to be drawn out, pronunciated a little slower, in games like Xenosaga, so having it being all text (with some nice voice samples) makes a difference as well. Personally, I kind of prefer being able to have the cast in my head for RPGs.

That said, the game isn't free of issues and I haven't even made it to Disc 2 yet. The game suffers from a serious lack of polish as BG stated, it's one of the most disjointed projects I've seen in a long time. The characters in battle are 2D, whereas their Gears fight in 3D. The game uses anime cutscenes for an intriguing intro and a few parts of the beginning of the game, yet I haven't seen one in hours. And for some odd reason, there's a 3D animated/CG cutscene just out of nowhere for one part and I haven't seen one before or since. I think the rushing of the project is well documented and it certainly shows in the game long before the second disc.

There's a few elements that are just plain bad, first and foremost being the platforming, which is a serious cause of frustration. Not only is it clunky, but battles can happen (and seem to do) just as you're making a big jump, and it's absolutely nerve-racking. The camera angles can also be obtrusive and impotent, either what you want to see is blocked or you can't see anything of what you need to. Lastly, the combat is nothing to write home about and in some ways it's the weakest aspect. The random encounters pose little real challenge at all and where I'm at now, I'd say the MAJORITY of the boss battles, if not all of them, are scripted to end at a certain point. This seriously mitigates the "game" part of the RPG acronym. The majority of combat is composed of inputting fighting game-like combos and watching elaborate animations which get terribly old astonishingly fast. I've literally face palmed for more than my fair share of random encounters, and certain dungeons can get especially drawn out.

That being said, there's something here about the story and presentation that totally negates how bad any of that may seem to you. If you like powerful narratives with lots of characters, believable dialogue, and a convincing fantastical setting, this your game. It took about 10 hours for me to get really hooked, but that was a point of no return. I can't stop playing this game for hours on end or thinking about it when I'm not, for as much as I dislike so much of it. Some of the scenes are so perfectly presented, it really is one of those classic JRPGs that stay with you. The music hasn't been consistently stellar to me, but the scenes it does nail are incredibly memorable. I've also noticed the translation to be pretty great so far, quite an achievement for that era in gaming, especially considering it was a lower profile project. I've noticed a couple punctuation errors here and there, but the grammar itself is fantastic.

If we expect RPGs to exist on a sliding scale, this one definitely leans more towards story than gameplay, but it's absolutely a gem and a must play for any JRPG fan. For $9.99 on the PSN, you really have no excuse not to get it (unless of course you don't have a PSP/PS3 or a friend to borrow from).

[Dreddz]

Xenogears has all the qualities you would find in a FF game of that era. Great combat, nice music, lots of content and a fairly elaborate story. The problems I found with the game were that the story was a bit heavy handed and became almost overwelming by disc 2. I think it tries to be more profound than just fun which I thought hurt the overall experience.

Still, its leaps and bounds better than a lot of other RPG's from that era and most of its ambition paid off in the end.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't know many people who have played both and not preferred Xenogears, even when Saga was their starting point. The cast is much more fun, the story is actually more refined, the music is better, and it has better, if a bit unsurprising ending. Fei is probably one of the most interesting characters I've played as in the genre, and I don't really feel like I've played a character who is as interesting and as screwed up as he is (though Ashley Riot comes close). Unlike Xenosaga, Gears is a bit better at easing the player into the plot. It does get convulated eventually but by the time it does, you're usually enamored with the story by that point.

Gameplay is much more simple and composes of a combination of weak, medium, and strong attacks to create makeshift combos. You eventually unlock deathblows, which are special wire-fu/DBZ style martial arts shenanigans that activate when you perform specific combos. Mecha combat is basically a bigger version except instead of using rechargeable action points, the moves use Fuel that can only be replenished with certain abilities. This can be a challenge cause the game loves to throw in mutli-boss fights at you.

The platforming is pretty clunky, especially in the Tower of Babel... otherwise, its not so bad, cause its not heavily used for dungeons and story stuff. The second disc is rushed, but I actually feel the game found a somewhat artistic way of handling it. Course by Disc 2, you also just want to know what the hell is going on.

Overall, its a better game imho, and its actually one of my fave games of all time, so you should check it out. :cool:

Bolivar: Actually, except for the two fights against Wiseman, and Bart's duel with Id, you can actually win every fight in the game. Its just a bitch in a half to beat Grahf...There are not that many scripted fights in the game.

[NorthernChaosGod]

I don't really want to write up an Iceglow huge post, so I'll make this short. This is pretty much my favorite game of all time. The music, gameplay, combat and story are all awesome. Go play it now.

[BG-57]

And one of the Grahf fights you can make it much easier if you include Elly in the party. He avoids targeting her for reasons that are made clear much later.

[Bolivar]

Bolivar: Actually, except for the two fights against Wiseman, and Bart's duel with Id, you can actually win every fight in the game. Its just a bitch in a half to beat Grahf...There are not that many scripted fights in the game.

I don't know about that... My last two boss fights were with Vanderkaum and Ellie... at the end of the first 'Act' I guess where Bart fails to take the throne. Hers ended pretty damn short... I guess they tried to make it challenging because you had to fight the flunkies before you got to her... But the latter guy I really felt the same way with, it may have been a little longer but it really seemed impossible for my dudes to die. Maybe that's because I always have all the best Gear parts I can buy but they've thrown so much money at me it's not a question of resource management to buy it. Those are the freshest two I can remember but like I said earlier, it seems as almost every boss fight up until now had been scripted.

The random encounters are just filler. I rarely have to use healing and when I do there's no fear of running out of EP.

Alongside the lengthy animations, I have to say the combat has consistently been a detracting factor - again I've literally face palmed through a nice percentage of combat transitions. I'm not looking forward to facing Grahf, though, I'd assume he would be tough...

THAT BEING SAID i'm only 15 hours in so I could understand if the difficulty and resource management come later, but with that in mind PLEASE DON'T SPOIL FUTURE BOSS FIGHTS... I don't know who Id is, at this point I'm not even supposed to know if Bart is alive or not (speaking of which I remember his fight with Ramsus which was very scripted :) )

[Laddy]

Xenogears isn't as pretentious as Xenosaga, but it's deep and confusing, though not overly so of either.

One of the best ever. <3

[Edge7]

Fei is probably one of the most interesting characters I've played as in the genre, and I don't really feel like I've played a character who is as interesting and as screwed up as he is (though Ashley Riot comes close).

Speaking of which, I've also considered getting Vagrant Story. Any preferences?

[Laddy]

Also an excellent game.

[Wolf Kanno]

Edge7: Vagrant Story is also excellent but its gameplay is a dividing issue. The combat is pretty unique and in all seriousness, I would almost argue VS defies being pigeon-holed into ant particular genre. Its considered an action/rpg/adventure game. It's really good, and its hard for me to say which is better between VS and Xenogears.

Bolivar: Lord, you're not even that far in yet. You should only have done about seven real boss fights by this point. I can't say you're far enough in to see the real boss fights, though the Elly fight where you have to go through her minions first, get used to that. The game LOVES making you do multiple boss fights in a row, and they do get harder.

Fighting without Gears is pretty easy, but don't worry, the game will throw some nasty enemies at you and some really agonizing boss fights as well. You actually haven't quite reached the point where the game stops playing with the kiddy gloves. The Gear fights will become increasingly difficult as well, cause that is where most of the resource management/strategy really starts to come into play. ;)

The Ramses fight wasn't really that scripted, though it is hard to lose when you've got Margie giving unhindered support, but its not like Miang isn't doing the same for Ramses. You can actually lose that fight. I don't even remember the Vanderkaum fight being scripted, though I do remember his fight also being a matter of luck, as to how badly he spams his moves that remove party members from the fray. Weltall is awesome, but you do need those support units.

[o_O]

I loved the first disc so much that I was bitterly, bitterly disappointed at the miniscule amount of gameplay in the second.

In spite of that it's still one of the best games ever. Just be prepared to watch and not play for the last half. :kakapo:

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Should you play Xenogears? Yes, yes, yes. Go. Do it now. you should also buy the live version of the soundtrack. Millenial Fair - Creid.

I haven't play vagrant story, but I will have to give it a whirl.

[Edge7]

Just got Xenogears. I'm digging it so far. It's not nearly as off-putting as Xenosaga.

[Wolf Kanno]

Glad to hear it. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. ;)

[Edge7]

Forgot to mention this in a previous post, but HOLY TIT! Is that Lucca!? And she's CHARGING ME BECAUSE I ASKED HER HOW TO SAVE OUT OF MINOR AMUSEMENT?!?!? Guess who I'm abandoning on the Day of Larvos.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yeah, that's Lucca, several members of the Chrono team worked on Gears, and it was originally meant to be a sequel to Chrono Trigger. This will be made very apparent later on...

[Bolivar]

Yeah, that's Lucca, several members of the Chrono team worked on Gears, and it was originally meant to be a sequel to Chrono Trigger. This will be made very apparent later on...

!?

[Edge7]

If anything got me stoked to play a game, it would be what you just said. I thought Chrono Cross was alright, but not as good as the original; anything originally intended to be in the same universe is awesome.

[Fynn]

Yeah, that's Lucca, several members of the Chrono team worked on Gears, and it was originally meant to be a sequel to Chrono Trigger. This will be made very apparent later on...

!?

Yes. You can see similarities to Cross as well.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yeah, that's Lucca, several members of the Chrono team worked on Gears, and it was originally meant to be a sequel to Chrono Trigger. This will be made very apparent later on...

!?

Why so surprise?


If anything got me stoked to play a game, it would be what you just said. I thought Chrono Cross was alright, but not as good as the original; anything originally intended to be in the same universe is awesome.

I'm happy you are stoke for it now. I just hope you end up liking it as much as I did back 98.




Yes. You can see similarities to Cross as well.

I have a joke with my friends that the reason Cross was so heavy philosophically and socially conscious, was because Kato didn't quite recover from Xenogears.

[Bolivar]

I'm not surprised in the sense that this was one of the core teams that worked on Chrono Trigger. I just never knew about the history, and I'm always really interested in the cool development stories behind games, especially their origin. Looking up more on this, Saga also stated (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/06/11/soraya-saga-on-xenogears-and-xenosaga/) that her and Takahashi pitched the game as Final Fantasy VII, but Sakaguchi considered it too dark for the series. Imagine that! It's funny, because one of my best friends always insists that Xenogears should have been Final Fantasy VIII. I can't wait to tell him!

It makes a lot of sense, though, at least with the way the field screen is presented and the way your sprite character moves over it, reminded me a lot of trigger.

I'm also sad to say I missed the Lucca cameo :(

[Wolf Kanno]

Lucca was in Lahan in the training House. You could pay her to give an overly complicated explanation on how the Save Points work. Interestingly enough, there are quite a few things you can do in Lahan that unlocks some goodies much much later in the game.

I use to say Xenogears should have been FFVII so I'm kind of laughing that it was originally asked to be that way. Reading up on Saga's thoughts though, just makes me wish NoA would finally announce Xenoblade for the U.S. :cry: Yeah, I know she didn't work on it but I respect her husband as well and been hearing nothing but good things about it. I want to see if its true that he learned not to let story overtake gameplay.

[Fynn]

Yeah, I really wish you guys had it announced already. The game is more awesome than I can describe right now. Hopefully, NoA will notice the very positive reception in Europe and decide to announce it in America.

[Edge7]

I haven't been following Xenoblade. Is it linked to Xenosaga or Xenogears in any way? What about the philosopher Xenophanes?

[Kenshin IV]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. To use popular geek culture that I too am well versed in, Xenosaga to Xenogears is like Batman Forever to The Dark Knight, or Attack of the Clones to The Empire Strikes Back. Well, maybe that's a little harsh -- Xenosaga III was pretty good, and the first game was playable. Regardless, the point is Xenogears is in a class waaaay beyond Xenosaga, and it's one of the all-time greatest RPG's ever made. Right up there with any other of Square's golden-era classics.

[Wolf Kanno]

I haven't been following Xenoblade. Is it linked to Xenosaga or Xenogears in any way? What about the philosopher Xenophanes?

No, Xenoblade was originally (and still registered in the U.S.) as Monada: The Beginning of the World, Monada also being the name of the sword the main character wields and the plot revolves around. Nintendo renamed it Xenoblade in honor of Takahashi (pretty much the mastermind behind Xenogears and Xenosaga) previous works that he is remembered for. Outside of having a lot of the same people working on it as the other games, the story has no real connection to his other projects. In fact, he's pretty much stated that Xenoblade is kind of an anti-Xenosaga in terms of game design, with the team focusing on gameplay over the story.

Gears and Saga themselves are not connected either, Saga was kind of a re-imagining of what Perfect Works stated Gears was to be, but obviously due to Xenogears IP belonging to Squenix, he could only at best use some characters and ideas as mere cameos. The Red Gear is even an uberhard optional boss fight in Xenosaga Episode 3. Think of it like the FF cameos in Kingdom Hearts.

[Bolivar]

I also read the team or Nintendo chose the name Xenoblade as a tribute to Takahashi-san and his contributions to gaming.

[Fynn]

In fact, he's pretty much stated that Xenoblade is kind of an anti-Xenosaga in terms of game design, with the team focusing on gameplay over the story.

I wouldn't really call it anti-Xenosaga. The cutscenes are still just as long as Xenosaga - the story is still pretty heavy, but they increased the amount of gameplay that even that seems insignificant. It's definitelly not FFX, where you tripped over cutscenes...