The DC Universe Reboot

[NeoCracker]

So I've never bought a comic before, and decided why not when DC rebooted their universe. Seemed as good a time as any to jump on.

Just finished reading the first one to come out, Justice League #1. I must say, it's not to shabby.

[Del Murder]

Yeah, this has sounded interesting. I may pick up JL #1.

I feel that comics universes can use reboots like this every once and a while. It keeps the characters fresh and allows new generations to get into them. Usually the best comic stories come from the early life of the character, and it is nice to see these adapted to a modern setting. Also, with all stuff that happens over the years, it is difficult to maintain a continuity while still providing gripping storylines.

[CimminyCricket]

At first I was kind of worried about this reboot, because I had heard nothing but negative reactions to it. Now that I think more about it, though, I'm finding that it'll be that much easier to get into it, because I'll be able to follow it from the beginning. And all the retcons that they've done in previous stories with all the super heroes will not matter because the whole scenario is new. I like that they're doing this. I'm excited to see what they do with GL.

[Slothy]

The trouble with this is that it's not completely a reboot. Some continuity is going, some is staying, and people like me who haven't read a lot of DC lately, but are pretty up on (and enjoy) the overall continuity have been left kind of wondering what the hell is going on. And to be honest, DC has had little reboots so often in the last 10-20 years that the whole thing is a little off putting to me. How long until all of this is undone too? It doesn't help that Justice Society is apparently undergoing major changes when it eventually reappears. Aside from that I've only read the Lex Luthor Action Comics arc and Flash recently, and I may not pick these series back up when I have the cash. The funny thing about supposedly perfect jumping on points for new readers is they're great exit points for existing readers.

And while I'm somewhat tempted to agree with you Del on the idea that starting fresh with characters is a good way to get new readers in, I'm not sure that actually matters at all. For the major heroes, most people are at least somewhat familiar with them, their history, and their status quo. In my experience, the best writers manage to make their stories, even the ones fairly heavy on continuity very accessible to new and old readers alike. And frankly, there are so many points in a comics run where it relaunches, or they start up with a new team or major story arc, that there are usually plenty of jumping on points for people that are perfectly fine. About the only thing I'd say a reboot has in it's favour for bringing in new readers is the perception that it will be easier to understand what's going on, but even then, if you're somewhat familiar with past established canon, you may just end up more confused as you try to figure out what is still valid and what isn't.

[NeoCracker]

Just default to assume none of it is.

Justice leauge starts off with Green Lantern not knowing Batman is real. It's safe to assume the vast majority of everything out now can be disregarded. :p

[Slothy]

From what I've read, the first Justice League story arc is an origin story for the new canon taking place years before everything else. If I'm not mistaken Darkseid is the main villain in that first arc but they've stated Final Crisis is still canon so he'd be a little too dead at the moment to show up (not to mention the Justice League not being formed would make that and other stories not make sense).

[NeoCracker]

Final Crisis? Really? Of all things they could keep cannon, THAT is something that might be kept?

Either way, if you just go in ignoring previous cannon, anything that is cannon is likely to be brought up in continuity, so trying to find out what stories are and are not in cannon is kind of irrelevant.

[Slothy]

While that's true, my favourite book I'd been picking up in trades lately was Justice Society. But apparently when that relaunches they're going to be on Earth 2 and completely separate from the rest of the DC Universe from what I've heard. So that doesn't leave me with a lot of incentive to keep going with it. Once I have the money again I may start picking up some more DC, but probably just because I love Geoff Johns writing.

And don't let me seem like a total downer here or anything. If anyone is thinking about jumping into DC with this relaunch, you really can't go wrong with pretty much anything Johns writes. The man is easily one of my favourite writers, even if I don't get to read a lot of DC.

[LunaRaven]

The trouble with this is that it's not completely a reboot. Some continuity is going, some is staying, and people like me who haven't read a lot of DC lately, but are pretty up on (and enjoy) the overall continuity have been left kind of wondering what the hell is going on. And to be honest, DC has had little reboots so often in the last 10-20 years that the whole thing is a little off putting to me. How long until all of this is undone too? It doesn't help that Justice Society is apparently undergoing major changes when it eventually reappears. Aside from that I've only read the Lex Luthor Action Comics arc and Flash recently, and I may not pick these series back up when I have the cash. The funny thing about supposedly perfect jumping on points for new readers is they're great exit points for existing readers.

And while I'm somewhat tempted to agree with you Del on the idea that starting fresh with characters is a good way to get new readers in, I'm not sure that actually matters at all. For the major heroes, most people are at least somewhat familiar with them, their history, and their status quo. In my experience, the best writers manage to make their stories, even the ones fairly heavy on continuity very accessible to new and old readers alike. And frankly, there are so many points in a comics run where it relaunches, or they start up with a new team or major story arc, that there are usually plenty of jumping on points for people that are perfectly fine. About the only thing I'd say a reboot has in it's favour for bringing in new readers is the perception that it will be easier to understand what's going on, but even then, if you're somewhat familiar with past established canon, you may just end up more confused as you try to figure out what is still valid and what isn't.

I'm inclined to agree. This reboot makes me more wary than excited, mainly because I'm not entirely sure what's going, what's staying, and how it will affect the things currently in continuity(or rather, used to be apart of continuity) that I've come to like. I've become so tired of these little "reboots" that DC has been doing these past few years--most of them lead to nothing eventful(atleast, not that I can remember) and it really does tend to add to the overall confusion fans face when trying to reengage with DC or when they're trying to get into DC for the first time.

Atleast my copy of Red Hood and the Outlaws will be ariving soon. I have something DC related to look forward to.

[Del Murder]

I guess they should have done something similar to Marvel's Ultimate universe. Completely started from scratch for each character but still retained the continuity of the classic titles.

[Slothy]

I was actually surprised they didn't go the Ultimate Comics route, especially since they basically set that up last year with the release of Superman Earth 2 which was pretty much a new, Ultimate style take on Superman. There were even plans for similar Batman and Wonder Woman stories to continue the Earth 2 line, though it's been so long since they'd been announced that I don't expect we'll ever see the now. It's a shame too because I actually liked Superman Earth 2 quite a bit.

[Slothy]

Let curiosity get the better of me since I had heard good things about them and picked up Action Comics and Detective Comics this week. I'm going to pick up JL #1 when there's an inevitable second printing as well. Enjoyed both of them a lot, though something felt a bit off about Action Comics. Some of the scenes were a little hard to follow. I find that a problem with Grant Morrison sometimes though, and generally I really love his writing. I'll probably stick it out with each of them until at least issue 2 then decide which to keep getting. I'm leaning towards Action Comics right now depending on how I like JL. I'm a big Superman fan and like the new take on a younger Superman.

The comic nerd in me still wants to know what is still in continuity and where the current books all fit in with eachother in the DC timeline. Clearly Action Comics takes place before Superman and JL, at least for now. I wonder if all of these books which are clearly telling origin stories will jump forward to catch up to everything else after.

[NeoCracker]

Having now also read Suicide Squad, Teen Titans, and Deathstroke here are some thoughts and me ranking them.

#4Suicide Squade # 1
Harle is pretty awesome in this. Dead Eye, however, is trying to hard to be a bad ass. King Shark is just silly. Could be good, but by Issue one's end Harle is the only part about this looking good.

#3Justice League # 1
Pretty good set up, characters are all fun, and the art and build up are all pleasant. While nothings amazing, I'm looking forward to number two.

#2Teen Titans # 1
Same as justice league, only more so on all counts. It feels like more has happened, and the characters are all funner and more interesging. Art is nicer too. Really it's point for point Justice Leagues superior based soley off Issue # 1.

#1Death Stroke # 1
Deathstroke is a Bad ass. Slade will forever own your soul due to his overwhelming awesome. Issue one has some very well done action scenes, great Dialogue, and a freaking awesome end to issue one, both solidifying Death Stroke and his awesome, as well as setting up for something big.

[Bolivar]

Interested in the Batman #1 since Greg Capullo was working on it. Can anyone comment on the art or if it's worth checking out?

[CimminyCricket]

I've read it (along with a majority of the #1's) and it is pretty good. You'll have to read all the Bat family #1's to get a real feel for where they're taking Batman this time around. There was a good few pages where he was Bruce and it was all boring dialogue, so if you're not into that it'll be difficult. Over all, though; it is a good read and the art is well done.

[NeoCracker]

Batman #1 was good, though the best one of the batmans is Batman and Robin, followed by detective comics. Freaking Damian is an awesome Robin.

[CimminyCricket]

I prefer Damian as well. I even appreciate his (well earned) arrogance.

[Slothy]

I'm pretty out of the loop on Damian since I haven't read any Batman books with him in them. Not sure I could stop liking Tim Drake as my favourite Robin though.

[CimminyCricket]

Damian is Bruce's son with Talia Al Ghul

[Slothy]

Oh, I know about Damian from reading plot summaries and the like, but that's not really any way to judge whether you like a character and I'm certainly not up on the finer details since I've just never read a comic with him in it. I should have been clearer my bad.

[CimminyCricket]

Ah OK. Batman is in my Top 3 for DC, so I follow him a little better than most. Imagine Tim Drake as Robin (arrogance) paired with the skills of Batman and Red Hood's attitude towards killing and you'll have Damien in a nutshell. If you like them, you'll like him.

[NeoCracker]

Been reading alot of the #2's, and I'm probably going to drop The Dark Night. Batman is awesome in JLI, Batman, Detective, and Batman and Robin, but The Dark Night is entirely forgetable.

Captain Atom took a big jump in quality from one to two.

Deathstroke and JLI both kept up the same quality as their number 1's, as did the other Batman books.

Resurrection man continues to get more interesting as well.

In addition since I'm dropping Dark Night, I'm replacing it with Demon Nights, the Medival comic they are running, and it's interesting. Charactrs are fun, Art is good, and the story is entertaining. It does suffer from being a bit all over the place and difficult to follow at times, but it's entertaining enough to keep up on.

Looking forward to Aqua Man #2 and Teen Titans #2, I'm picking those up in a few hours.

[Slothy]

Why must Detective Comics and Justice League be so good? On the plus side, I should be starting back at work again soon so I can actually afford to add more stuff to my pull list again. So I won't have to drop any Marvel books to pick up these surprisingly good DC titles.

[NeoCracker]

If you like JLI, I seriously recomend Teen Titans. It does everythign JLI does right but better.

And I will say this, while Dark Knight on a whole is disappointing, the chick in the Bunny Outfit is hot as hell.

[Slothy]

I was talking about your standard Justice League. Never read JLI in any of it's older incarnations, and most of the characters involved hold little interest for me. I've always been a much bigger fan of Supes, Bats, Flash and the like.

Speaking of Flash though, I haven't picked up the new series. I was getting it before Flashpoint, but needed to trim back. Any word on if it's still any good?

[NeoCracker]

I meant JLA, not I. My bad. :p

I hear Flashpoint itself was highly dissapointing, though I know nothing of the new comics on Flash. He never caught my interest enough to pick it up.

[Slothy]

Yeah, Flashpoint was pretty meh. Another parallel universe story where all of the heroes never met and are dicks, all because Barry Allen didn't want his mom to die? The only part I really cared for was Thomas Wayne as Batman, but overall there wasn't nearly enough that was even explained really in the mini-series proper. Considering I was only picking it up because I had been getting Flash (my only DC book at the time) it was fairly disappointing. Seemed if you wanted to actually see some of what happened to lead the DC Universe where it was you needed to read everything else but the main mini series. Not that this is solely a problem with DC lately.

Some event comics pull off the stand alone main series and tie in's well (like Secret Invasion) while others don't do it as well. I'm not 20 years old and living with my parents anymore. I can't afford every book that so much as catches my eye.

But I quite liked Flash before Flashpoint. Geoff Johns generally does a good job of writing him, and I was becoming quite invested in the comic. But then there's a reboot and a new writer coming off the heels of a mediocre event focused on the Flash, and it's a little difficult to stay interested. Maybe I'll pick up issue #1 next time I'm at the comic shop, but I find it hard to imagine it topping the three titles I'm already picking up.

[NeoCracker]

JLA and detective seem to be two of them, whats the third?

[Slothy]

Action Comics.

I'm a big fan of Grant Morrison, and love Geoff Johns stuff as well so Action and JLA were no brainers. Detective I just picked up because I heard it was good and figured I might enjoy having a Batman ongoing to look forward to. Needless to say, they had me at cutting the Jokers face off and nailing it to a wall.

Yes, I probably do need help.

[Del Murder]

JLI :p

[NeoCracker]

Okay, so Teen Titans has just replaced Deathstroke as my favorite of the New 52.

[DUKE004]

With no disregard for previously listed issues I`m partial to the Lantern series myself.

[CimminyCricket]

Yeah, I am not sure I am liking where GL is going. :C

[krissy]

an important discussion point abotu how DC handled superman a while back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PlwDbSYicM 18+

i don't think this topic is old enough to warrant a closure. Now that it's been a few months, what does everyone think? I haven't kept up; is it getting better, or was the reboot a bad idea?

[Slothy]

I'm still really digging Action Comics and Justice League. Detective Comics seems to have stumbled a bit with it's second story arc at the moment, but I'm willing to stick it out a bit longer to see if it picks up again. If not I'll probably just ditch it and catch up on Uncanny X-Force instead.

As for whether the reboot was worth it, I'm probably the worst person to try and answer that. I didn't read much DC before but was up on the major happenings, and the books I'm reading now are the ones that are so far probably the least affected by the whole thing. So as far as they're concerned I would say that they've been great so far, but certainly didn't need a reboot to get there I think.

[SuperMillionaire]

The reboot is called The New 52, and it started in August of 2011. They've decided to reboot all of their comic series to re-establish their history as taking place in modern times.

I like some of the re-imagining of the characters, but I've noticed that it's become a bit more like the Marvel Universe, in that regular people are shown to be suspicious and distrustful of superhumans and metahumans (mutants).

I would also like it if Marvel decided to reboot their comics too.

[NeoCracker]

Teen Titans is still going strong, and I'm happy Bunker, the gay Mexican, is actually a really good character and more then just a stereotype.

Right now it's hard to gauge the better comic between Teen Titans and Demon Knights though. Shinning Knight is clearly the most bad ass of that comic.

[krissy]

I would also like it if Marvel decided to reboot their comics too.

they pretty much did with the Ultimate series back in 2000 something. although the only ultimate thing most people seem to like is spidey.

[SuperMillionaire]

I would also like it if Marvel decided to reboot their comics too.

they pretty much did with the Ultimate series back in 2000 something. although the only ultimate thing most people seem to like is spidey.

True, but I meant that they should reboot their main universe sometime too, only with their personalities still intact, not changed like in the Ultimate counterpart.

And this is actually the second time that DC Comics has rebooted their universe. Their first reboot was 25 years ago, back in 1986, following their Crisis on Infinite Earths event. It was under this continuity, which ran from 1986 to 2011, that the events of the JLA/Avengers crossover took place.