Need help buying a used car

[Pumpkin]

So I'm planning on buying a car and a new one is well out of my price range. So far I have two people willing to sell me their car (both of whom I know personally, meaning it's not just some random person I found in a newspaper) and I know absolutely nothing about cars so I was hoping for some help.

One is a Ford Taurus and she wants 2000$ for it. The only repair she said it needs is that there is a wierd "airy" sound in the back when the car is running. (I will post more when I know more) She thinks it will be expensive enough to get fixed.

The other is a Honda Civic and he wants 800$. The windshield is severly cracked on the passengers side and it needs a new muffler.

Both are in so-so condition and are older cars. They also both need winter tires.

I'm going to speak more with them both about the cars and since I know nothing about cars I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions of things I should ask them or check myself. I don't want to end up making the wrong decision here and I don't want to buy the cheaper car if the repairs are just going to cost me more. I also want to be sure I have as much information as possible before making the decision so any suggestions of things to ask/check will be extremelly useful.

Thank you.

[Hollycat]

show pics plz, That airy sound could be nothing, or it could be a hole in a pipe on the bottom of the car.

[Pumpkin]

She said it definitly needs to be fixed and the longer I wait the worse it will get. My boyfriend told me what the problem was but I forget so I'll update tomorrow.

[fire_of_avalon]

Here are some things I would want to know before making a decision. Year, mileage, accident history if any, major repairs in the past, history of fluid changes, sound of the engine when idling, what the exhaust sounds like when idling, recall information on the car, whether any of the major internal components have been replaced (motor, transmission, etc.), year on the battery, whether the brakes and rotors have been done recently and regularly, whether lines and hoses are in good condition and what color it is (because it has to make me look pretty, dammit.)

But I'm just a girl who thinks cars are neat. What you need is a car guy. Lucky for you, you know one. I believe he refers to you as cupcake.

[Pumpkin]

Here are some things I would want to know before making a decision. Year, mileage, accident history if any, major repairs in the past, history of fluid changes, sound of the engine when idling, what the exhaust sounds like when idling, recall information on the car, whether any of the major internal components have been replaced (motor, transmission, etc.), year on the battery, whether the brakes and rotors have been done recently and regularly, whether lines and hoses are in good condition and what color it is (because it has to make me look pretty, dammit.)

But I'm just a girl who thinks cars are neat. What you need is a car guy. Lucky for you, you know one. I believe he refers to you as cupcake.

Yea I tried to contact sharky but he is selfishly offline.

But those are good questions and I will right them down. As for the sounds, what are they supposed to sound like? (I wasn't kidding when I said I know nothing about cars)

[Pike]

Yeah, I vote we wait for Sharky to show up.

[NorthernChaosGod]

sharky can certainly help you out, but your best bet is to take them both to a trustworthy mechanic so that he can actually have a look at it and listen for any odd noises. There may not be a whole lot sharky can do from his computer. :p

[rubah]

checking the condition of the paint in obscure/out of the way places such as in the wheel well and generally anywhere there is paint that isn't on the top or sides can give you a good indication of whether it's been a wreck and had large components replaced with parts from other cars, then [sometimes sloppily] repainted. This isn't necessarily a bad sign, but if they don't own up to the wreck, then it throws doubt on their character.

or so my dad said once

[Pumpkin]

I can't afford a mechanic. I make 800 a month and am refusing my boyfriends money so that's why I need some advice on things to look out for. It wont be as good as a mechanic obviously but any advice is better then what I know now, which is just checking if it actually starts and is not visibly flling apart.

[NorthernChaosGod]

I wouldn't recommend getting a car then, unless you have a friend who's good with cars that can actually take a look at it. Or just fly out sharky. :p

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Initially? With what I imagine your needs are, Honda Civic.

Both are Front wheel drive, which is good for your winter conditions. The Honda should be good on gas. Cheap maintenance costs. Very common, making parts availability good, and parts costs relatively cheap. Cheap insurance. Etc. Etc.

The Taurus isn't a bad option either, depending on the specific model.

That's knowing nothing about the cars however. What years are they? Mileage? How rusty are they? Do they have a good maintenance history? A paper trail to prove it?

Please tell me the year, mileage, and exact model of each car. Make sure to specify what type of engine the Taurus has. Please mention if they're automatics or manuals (although I think I know the answer).

What's the personality of both the drivers? The Civic driver was male. Is he the type to think he's a mad tyte, JDM street racer? Or is he just driving normally?

[Pumpkin]

I will get back to you probably within the week about those questions. The Ford driver is a very safe driver. The Honda driver is....not but apparently he hasn't driven the car. He bought it and then a few days letter got a newer car and as a result is now selling the Honda. The Ford has no initially visible rust but I'll check more on that and I believe the year is 92 but I'll have to confirm. The Honda has visible rust on the bottom.

[Casey]

Have you tried going on Craiglist? They're cars people sell on there or by dealer.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I can't afford a mechanic. I make 800 a month and am refusing my scallywagfriends money so that's why I need some advice on things to look out for. It wont be as good as a mechanic obviously but any advice is better then what I know now, which is just checking if it actually starts and is not visibly flling apart.

Ask around about a good local mechanic. Once you get a recommendation on a few, call them to see what they'd charge to look over the car. You might be surprised. Tell them you're a working student, and you don't have a lot of money. You just want to take the little money you have and invest it wisely. They might help you out.

We charge 30-50 dollars to inspect the car pretty thoroughly and tell you what's good and bad about it. We inspect for impact damage, soft parts (hoses, belts, seals, etc.) undercarriage, maintenance schedule, and on and on. The extra 20 dollars is if the person chooses to have us work up estimates on what each repair would cost to take with them as a bargaining too.

30-50 bucks to inspect a possible 800-2,000 dollar investment seems prudent to me.

[Old Manus]

Race it in the Sunday Cup and win fifty times, selling the prize Mazda Demio each time until you have enough credits to buy a used MX-5.


...I'll get my coat

[Peegee]

it should be noted nobody mentioned anything about the windshield.

I ordered a non-make/model matching (from the manufacturer) windshield when I had to replace mine, and it cost close to a thousand dollars.

Now sharkyshark may be facepalming because he can get a better deal but I didn't even cause my windshield to break, so if I were to tell people exactly what circumstances caused the windshield to break, he would be spazzing out and driving to canada with his shotgun.

(it's okay - the person got his comeuppance in the end; just ask um...rubahs)

[sharkythesharkdogg]

:Oo: That does sound.......steep. I've had the windshield replaced in one of my cars and it was 250 with labor. I've not heard of it getting much above 500. I'd think the Civic wouldn't be that much. It's worth some research.

Was this done at the dealership?

[Pumpkin]

Okay, I brought my trusty checklist and asked some questions and these are the answers I got:

Honda:
Year: 2002
Mileage: High
Acc. history: none
Repairs needed: windshield, muffler, fender
Fluid change: needs oil change
Car battery: Few months old
Brakes and rotors in good cond: yes
lines and hoses in good cond: yes

Ford:
Year: 2003
Mileage: High
Acc. history: none
Repairs needed: Rotor and dent in bumper
Fluid change: Oil changed last month
Car battery: 2 years old
Brakes and rotors in good cond.: Brakes yes
Lines and hoses in good cond: She didn't know what I was talking about and neither do I.
Exact Model: Ford Taurus SE
Type of engine: v6

[rubah]

it should be noted nobody mentioned anything about the windshield.

I ordered a non-make/model matching (from the manufacturer) windshield when I had to replace mine, and it cost close to a thousand dollars.

Now sharkyshark may be facepalming because he can get a better deal but I didn't even cause my windshield to break, so if I were to tell people exactly what circumstances caused the windshield to break, he would be spazzing out and driving to canada with his shotgun.

(it's okay - the person got his comeuppance in the end; just ask um...rubahs)

he did?! did you beat him up? I forget

[fire_of_avalon]

An '02 Civic for $800? Holy crap.

[Peegee]

it should be noted nobody mentioned anything about the windshield.

I ordered a non-make/model matching (from the manufacturer) windshield when I had to replace mine, and it cost close to a thousand dollars.

Now sharkyshark may be facepalming because he can get a better deal but I didn't even cause my windshield to break, so if I were to tell people exactly what circumstances caused the windshield to break, he would be spazzing out and driving to canada with his shotgun.

(it's okay - the person got his comeuppance in the end; just ask um...rubahs)

he did?! did you beat him up? I forget

You don't remember? you even commented on the post

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Okay, I brought my trusty checklist and asked some questions and these are the answers I got:

Honda:
Year: 2002
Mileage: High
Acc. history: none
Repairs needed: windshield, muffler, fender
Fluid change: needs oil change
Car battery: Few months old
Brakes and rotors in good cond: yes
lines and hoses in good cond: yes

Ford:
Year: 2003
Mileage: High
Acc. history: none
Repairs needed: Rotor and dent in bumper
Fluid change: Oil changed last month
Car battery: 2 years old
Brakes and rotors in good cond.: Brakes yes
Lines and hoses in good cond: She didn't know what I was talking about and neither do I.
Exact Model: Ford Taurus SE
Type of engine: v6

Time to shamble back to my man-cave and to some research. Give me two or three days to congeal some answers.

Specific mileage is important. At least some thing like "Close to 180k miles" or "Almost 300k miles!!!" You're in Canada so it's kilometers, but you get the idea.

Also, Civic specific model type. Si? R? etc.

Same thing with the Taurus.

[Pumpkin]

The ford is an SE and both are over 200 000 but below 250 000

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about this. I've done some research, but I'll probably post up what I think over the weekend when I can really get a chance to sit down and type it all out.

Okay, get ready for a long, unfocused rant. Hopefully some of it is helpful.


General things for both cars.

Maintenance Schedules. Have the owners been following them.

The engine bay is exposed to a lot of heat, and heat is the death of motors. Heat breaks down rubber parts, fluids, and seals. The cars should have had several fuel filters, air filters, coolant hoses and belts replaced in their history with the amount of mileage they have.

Ask when was the last time the vehicle’s had their coolant flushed, brake fluid flushed, transmission fluid changed, etc. Don’t be afraid to call them out on things. If they say it has fresh fluids, be ready to inspect them. Know where the brake fluid resevoir on the cars are. Ideally the fluid should be clear to light tan. It’s to be replaced about every two years. If the fluid is black, it’s not fresh. The same with coolant. It’s either green or orange. It’s to be replaced seasonally. At LEAST once a year. If it’s brown, it’s not fresh.

If the belts are supposedly new, look at them. This one is easy. If the belts have cracks in the rubber, it’s time for new ones. Hoses are a little more work. Check around points where they attach. If they’re a lot fatter where they attach it means they’re getting weak from lots of heat cycles. Look for stains around where they attach. That shows signs of leaking. If the hoses are overly hard, they’re bake from age and waiting to spring a leak.

Ask when spark plugs and wires were replaced. Ask when the cam cover gasket was replaced.

If the owner hasn’t replaced any accessory belts, coolant hoses, filters, etc (and they likely haven’t, most people don’t) then I expect the T-Belt/Water pump for the car need replacing quite badly.

Here’s why the T belt is so important. It is literally a timing belt. It keeps the motor in time. You have pistons, valves, cams, and many other moving parts all moving together in a synchronized fashion thanks to that timing belt. If the belt breaks the internals of the engine continue to move, but they get out of time, collide with one another and basically the engine is ruined. It’s a catastrophic failure if the belt breaks.

So I can’t emphasize enough making sure that car gets a new belt if it doesn’t have one. The water pump is replaced because it’s BEHIND the timing belt. Eventually it will fail too, and it keeps the motor cool. So replacing it while the timing belt is off is standard procedure and a very wise move.

Are the cars used for lots of short trips, or interstate commuting? A car that receives lots of short trips is much harder on it’s motor internals, and therefore it’s motor oil.

If the answer to that question is “short trips”, it’s especially important to establish that the engine had it’s oil changed at a regular 3k-4k schedule.

Collision damage.

It’s easier to check for than you think. The vehicle’s have what’s call a VIN sticker. Vehicle identification number. Every panel on the car has them some where. If you pop the hood, you’ll find the VIN sticker for the fenders along the inside of them right underneath where the hood would meet the fender. Once you raise the hood out of the way, you can check along that lip on the fender for their stickers. If the stickers have paint on them, it’s a good sign that body work has been done to the car AFTER it left the factory. Usually from a collisions. You won’t get paint on a VIN sticker from the factory. You can check along the inside of the trunk using the same methods. The rear bumper usually has them along the back inside lip. It means getting on the ground and brining a flash light, but it’s not too difficult to check.

Example of a location. (http://accuratecars.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/100_4155.jpg) And another. (http://www.speedforsale.com/images/cars/JT2JA82J0S0028883_480_16064216.jpg)

Close up of sticker. (http://www.speedforsale.com/images/cars/ipus/JT2JA82J6P0004997_195_117255348.jpg)

Alignment issues.

Check and see how the tread wear on the tires look. It should be nice and even. If yer getting far more wear on the inside as compared to the outside, or uneven wear along the edge of the tread, or other strange wear patterns then the car needs an alignment. It could also be a sign of something bigger, like a tweaked chassis from collision damage.

Throw the car around.

It might sound obvious, but test everything. All the windows, all the radio options, any electric mirrors, defrost, blinkers, horn, washers and wipers. Once the car is warmed up, don’t baby it the whole time. Get to place like an empty parking lot where you can accelerate hard, brake hard, and turn hard. Make the cars work. Try to expose any weaknesses.





Civic

Check for signs of leakage in the trunk. Some TSB’s I read note the early Civics (01-02) of that generation had issues with moisture getting into the trunk.

Check yer climate controls. Some Civics develop issues there.

If it’s a manual transmission, it seems the car can develop issues with 2nd gear. As yer driving the vehicle make sure to note any signs of the vehicle being difficult to get in or out of second.

Inspect CV axles. These are the axles that run from yer transaxle to yer wheel hubs. Basically check to see if there’s a large amount of grease around them, or if they have torn rubber boots. A quick easy way to check is in an empty parking lot. Stop the car, and turn the wheel to almost full lock one direction. Then accelerate with some urgency. Leave the wheel turn so that you’re traveling in a tight circle. Listen for any clicking, popping, or knocking sounds. Now do the same thing in the other direction.
Some Civics of this generation appear to also develop weak power steering pumps after some miles, so this test will also let you listen for any whining or moaning sounds as you turn the wheel. That’s an obvious sign that something is going on with the PS system.

Timing Belt/Water pump/Maintenance schedule. The T-belt and W-pump shoud be replaced at every 100k miles according to the factory maintenance schedule for that Honda. It seems these cars can develop an issue with their timing belt tensioner. Before it fails, it begins making an audible noise. So in a perfect word those items should be replaced earlier than 100k. The point of all this is that with the mileage the Civic you’re looking at has, those components should have been replaced at least TWICE. If the owner doesn’t know if those have been replaced, it’s very likely that car has a belt that should have been replaced 150k miles ago. Then again 50k miles ago. Don’t let him confuse the drive belts (also called accessory belts) with the timing belt. The drive belts are the ones you can see on the front of the motor that drive yer A/C, power steering, etc. The timing belt is behind a cover and cannot be seen. It’s a much more fundamental part of the motor.

Taurus

The venerable old Taurus.

The build quality of the interior bits and pieces on these won’t be as good as a Honda.

The transmissions seem to shift hard from 1st to 2nd. It’s a common problem, so fresh transmission fluid as part of yer regular maintenance isn’t a bad idea.

One glaring, ongoing issue with this generation of Taurus is that the springs seem to catastrophically fail, and ruin the tires by puncturing them. Reading about it, it seems it happens early on in the car’s mileage 50k-150k, so I think there was a bad batch of springs. They either break, or they don’t. With 200k miles I think the one you’re going to look at doesn’t have the bad springs, but you need to be aware it’s a possible risk. There is no factory recall for this issue that I can see. So if they do break, it’s on you repair it.

Look under the car, or have the mechanic do it, and check the springs for rust and cracks. If you do take the car to a mechanic, REALLY have him look hard at those springs. It could save you a headache.

One advantage is that is has a timing chain, instead of a rubber timing belt. This means it won’t need changing nearly as often. Still, with over 200k miles, it’s probably time to consider it.

I’d do the same CV axle test to the Taurus as you will with the Honda. Check all of it’s hoses, belts, etc.

The Taurus has a v6. The gas mileage will not be quite as good as the Civic, but power and smoothness will be better. It is a better highway cruiser, and is more comfortable on long trips.


If you’re not sure how to look for something I mentioned, just ask, and I’ll find a picture or something to help you get and idea of what I’m talking about.

[Pumpkin]

I'm just going to reply to this instead of making a new one because it's still on the 1st page and I don't think it counts as reviving an old thread (right? It doesn't right?)

Anyways, I'm buying the Honda because he dropped the price to 700 and the repairs should come up to less then buying the Ford + repairs. I'm also going to start financing a newer used car in November when I get my licence upgrade. I found a 2008 with only 16 000 km on it and it will cost me 240$ a month which is well within my price range.

I'm getting two cars for several reasons. The first being I can't finance a car until I get my licence upgrade and I need a car before then (because my ride home from school is a not-very-nice-person who insists she can no longer drive me the minute I get my licence.) Also I found someone to help me practice my driving but he won't let me use his car so I need a car in order to practice for my road test now that my lessons are done. Also I can't count on the Honda to last long term because it is in rough shape. When I get the newer one my boyfriend said he'd take the Honda because he wanted to get a new job (with a signifigant pay raise) but he'd need a car because they wouldn't be able to provide transport like his company does now.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

A 2008 what?

Don't do a ton of big maintenance on the Civic unless you're SURE your boyfriend is going to keep it. I'm big on maintenance, but if someone is going to be getting rid the car soon, it's simply not wise financially.

Also, it seems fair if your boyfriend going to be taking the car from you soon that he chips in on the repair costs.

The Civic is a solid car. If he repairs it, and stays on top of the maintenance, it shouldn't let him down.

[Pumpkin]

2008 Subaru Legacy.

It would be fair of him to chip in on the epairs if he wasn't paying for rent/food/bills and anything else we may need. We agreed until I graduate and/or get a better job that the car(s) will be my responsibility. And with my signifigant increase in hours, I can afford it. When I'm not at school or sleeping, I'm at work basically.
Also another reason I forgot to mention is that the Honda is amazing on gas. I drove it for about 3 hours straight yesterday and the gas gauge barely moved. Also, it only costs 60$ to fill up the tank. I also much prefer the brake pedal on the Honda. Which is important to me.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I think you've made a fine potential choice. The Legacy is a good platform. That doesn't necessarily mean the one your looking at is good. The dealership will offer to have their people "look it over" or give it "The 100 point safety inspection" which is garbage for obvious reasons.

Before you buy it, take the car to an unbiased third party garage to have them inspect it. See if you can find one that specializes in Subys.

[Pumpkin]

I don't know how it works everywhere lse, but after doing reserch, I found that here, if you buy from a dealership, they have to do the mandatory safety check and they also get the plates (which is of course included in the sales price.)

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I don't know how it works everywhere lse, but after doing reserch, I found that here, if you buy from a dealership, they have to do the mandatory safety check and they also get the plates (which is of course included in the sales price.)

I'm sure there's some law about the dealership needing to perform some safety inspection as a form of liability protection or something. It must take place after you purchase the vehicle.

What I'm suggesting is BEFORE you purchase it, I don't see why they'd mind you having a third party look the car over. Anything else is a conflict of interest.

The safety inspection is just that. Focused on safety. It might not look for things like bad rust, worn belts and hoses, or other maintenance related issues. A dealership trying to sell you the car will happily tell you your car has passed it's safety inspection and not mention maintenance items that are needed. A third party will. You can take the list of necessary maintenance items back to the dealership for them to perform, or suggest they drop the price on the car so that you can pay for them yourself later on. It's a good bargaining tool, and it's good information about your potential car.