Steppin' in the brown stuff: Polishing up the game text!

[Silent Warrior]

So, uh, at the risk of alienating the whole of EoFF... :jess:
For a while now, I've been tweaking the in-game conversations (not menu items) - I'm going into a little more detail here (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=12596.0) (do take a look at the FF7 retranslation project while you're there) - and thought I'd just... well, say so. I realize this game is sort of old, but is anyone else interested in this, when it's finished?

(Feel free not to bother registering at Qhimm on my account, and commenting here instead. I don't check these forums often; but I've subscribed to this topic, so I'll know when people comment on this.)

[Jessweeee♪]

Yeah, I would probably check it out when it's finished. Something new to try anyway! The only problem I had with the original script is that they would say "Ok" or use numerals instead of words, such as "Those 2 guys." "Ok" is not a word. "OK" is an abbreviation. When someone is speaking, it should be "Okay" or "'kay" And numerals should only be used if it's a large number. But if it's an important number I'll just wave it off as tutorial dialogue.

[chionos]

Actually OK is not an abbreviation of Okay. OK was the way the word was spelled originally, before Okay/okay/O.K. ever existed. Ok with a lowercase 'k' is not correct, however, even as an abbreviation--it's simply nothing. But OK and okay are used interchangeably even in somewhat more scholarly works--NY Times, etc.
We are agreed on numerals vs. numbers spelled out. IIRC, I think we were taught in school that 1-12 you spell out, anything higher you can use the numeral? I tend to spell out anything less than a 3 digit number, though.

Silent Warrior, do you have any examples yet of your progress?

[Mo-Nercy]

I've always found Seifer's calling Zell a "chicken-wuss" was a lame attempt at an insult. Perhaps that could be changed to something else.

[Jessweeee♪]

I always thought it was supposed to be chicken shit. Except not chicken tit like the censor says.

[Depression Moon]

What the heck's a chicken tit. Chicken breast?

[Jessweeee♪]

When you try to say that four letter word for fecal matter (not poop) it translates to "tit" because we thought that would be funny.

[Silent Warrior]

Regarding not-'chicken-wuss': Aaah, right! I pretty much overlooked that, but I'll see if I can have teenage Seifer use the... more colourful version. It kinda makes sense that he'd use the 'canon' version at the orphanage, though. Now you've caused a delay! :p

chionos: By example, do you mean something like in-game screenshot? I could probably rig some screenshots from the editor, but I've never used places like Photobucket. I suppose I can go for it, though... As for the game, I'm fighting with Aali's custom OpenGL-driver... I think. Anyway, I haven't got around to actually starting the game yet - can't find some driver or other, apparently. CRASH. For the next few days, I'll be busy with something else and won't have time to sort this out, but I'll have it sorted at SOME point.
And I'll keep 'OK' and the numerals in mind. I don't know if there are space constraints, though. I also think the numerals look out of place, but we'll just have to see whether the long version works.

[Mo-Nercy]

Oh. Two more suggestions.

There's that scene in the Timber TV Station where Edea convinces Seifer to join her.


Edea: "Don't be ashamed to ask for help. Besides, you're only a little boy."
Seifer: "I'm not...Stop calling me a boy."
Edea: "You don't want to be a boy anymore?"
Seifer: "I am not a BOY!"

If they'd be saying "child", the 1999 version of me probably wouldn't have collapsed in a fit of giggles.


And Fujin in general. In the Japanese version, she spoke only in kanji and to some extent, they carried over that same effect of limited speech in the English releases, but I don't see why it had to be all-capitals. She's not even yelling most of the time.

[Silent Warrior]

Mo-Nercy: Ah, yes, that one. THAT was up for some revision, I tell you. Maybe I should just take care of that right now, while I remember... (The Timber-screens are a long way down the list, being listed alphabetically and all.) As for Fujin... I don't know what to do, I really don't. Sure, all caps is over the top, but it does give her a bit of character. Of course, it does cause confusion in Lunatic Pandora when she starts speaking all normal like. (I first thought it was Raijin ranting away...) I'll see how it looks in the editor, then decide.

[Hans]

This is awesome! I'm chiming in as someone who would love to see this. Is this basically another editing pass on the script?

[Hans]

double post.

[Roogle]

Is this only polishing up existing dialogue and text found in the game right now? I would be very happy to see the results of a retranslation or relocalization project. Do you have the assistance of someone who is familiar with the original script?

[Silent Warrior]

Hans: Pretty much a re-edit, yes. I do interfere a bit, but the story in general is left alone. No message is added or removed.

Roogle: I have no such help, and my ambitions don't stretch to a full translation. (I don't really have the time to follow through with that in a timely fashion, either.) I have a nagging feeling my version is often a bit closer to the original, even so... The editing smells like a bit of a rush job, now that I see it from an editor's perspective. The text is quite good originally, but not perfect - like a one-pass edit. They weren't obsessively thorough; and some phrases seem like literal translations, looking out of whack in English.
I welcome opinions, of course, and suggestions from those who know the original Japanese text, but I only intend this to be a more polished version of what is already there. I actually have a problem where my edits don't seem to persist - the files/directories have been set to not be read-only, but that doesn't behave as I thought it would, either...

Haha! It works! What I can tell you right now, then, is that this will, when it's finished, likely be a 308 Mb payload uncompressed, replacing Square's original files. No estimation of a release date, but I would like to have this finished ASAP. Now to figure out how to work with screenshots...

[Roogle]

Even a cleanup of the grammar and punctuation of the localization would improve the experience.

[Silent Warrior]

I'm on it. Did you have something specific in mind?

[Flying Arrow]

Piping in to say that this sounds like a really great project. I've never played FF8 on PC but lately I've gotten a hankering to play some PSX FF - so maybe I'll wait for you to finish this before I get to 8.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any lines that need to be re-done. I haven't played it in a long time (2006, I think) so maybe I will give it a playthrough just so I can contribute in a very small way to helping you along in this.

Oh, and from your link, I'd say don't add in the 'this guy are sick' line. I mean, it's your call but I think it'll make a lot of players cringe. Then again, the same people who would play an FF8 PC re-translation might be the same people who would get a kick out of it.

[Silent Warrior]

Hm... I don't know how compatible this is with the PSX version - you'd have to make images of the discs and manipulate them, at the very least, but I haven't done any research into compatibility. It seems to work fine with the PC version, though.

Adding 'This guy are sick' isn't, hm, 'compatible with my goals with this project', but I thought someone might smirk at the nostalgia. Y'know, that most famous goofed FF7 translation. The official version doesn't have it, just thought I'd mention the possibility.

[Flying Arrow]

Oops, I worded my last post poorly. I meant I might wait and pick up the PC version somehow once you've finished your project. But now on second thought I'll probably still play through FF8 on PSX. When I play your translation I'll be able to appreciate it that much more.

[Roogle]

I'm on it. Did you have something specific in mind?

Ah, no, I haven't played the game recently. I remember seeing a lot of minor punctuation issues like excessive ellipses and punctuation marks. Squall had very little emotion during the first parts of the game which were frequently characterized by his lack of response, but I think the writer went a bit overboard and left a few too many sets of ellipses in his dialogue, if that makes sense.

[Silent Warrior]

I don't know what you mean by 'ellipses' (comes with bein' foreign, ya), but Squall's 'general lack of emotion' sounds like a major modification... I don't think I've done very much to take care of that concern, but I must've made him a little warmer. Some '...Whatever's have been turned into something else entirely, for example.

I think I've figured out why my edits didn't persist before, but I'm still a bit concerned that not everything will be saved... So, uh, lessee about the public beta, eh? (No, I won't consort with estimated release dates.)

Flying Arrow: Ah, I see. No problem.

[Silent Warrior]

Hm, I seem to have had a minor setback. There is a nonsensical text-box somewhere in Esthar (in the area named etsta2) I can't make sense of without seeing it in context. I'll try to keep an eye out myself, during the 'beta-/RC-phase', but if someone has a save AFTER Rinoa has been carried to Esthar, it would help if I could see a screenshot when you speak to someone who should be at the screen on the bride from FH to the Eastern Continent where the party reunites (everyone + Edea), that'll hopefully speed up the process a little bit.

[Edit] Uh, no, I tell a lie... It's close to the area where they reunite, but it should NOT be the same screen. All I can say, going by the text, is that there are no save points, no other character you can speak to, and that there is an opportunity to play a game of cards.

[Silent Warrior]

Heeey! Curio of the day: When you're through with Galbadia Prison, Square warns that the player should not be returned to the prison, because it crashes. There were a few other warnings about events not being complete, too. Hm, why would they leave those warnings in, if everything is fit for release?

Well, no matter. There was also a provision for Zell having met Laguna/Squall in the dream event at the disc change.
It's kinda neat how they wrote in clear text in the game dialogue files when you receive items - it's no generic message with the item name added on the fly by the program, it's actual clear text notices. I learn tons this way!

[Jiro]

I'm very interested in seeing the finished product, just to see how different it really is. You can dramatically change the narrative just by changing the dialogue.

[Silent Warrior]

Then you'll be happy to hear that I might finish much sooner than I expected - maybe I'll even have an RC/public beta/R1 :p before the end of the week. I'll just stress that my aim wasn't so much to change the story than improving on the original. You know, it would really have benefited from another editing pass...

Next curio: The entries concerning Triple Triad are nearly always at the end, except on Lunar Base. Then they come at the top. ... *Shrug* Looks like the card game was added at a later stage of development. Surprise surprise. Anyway, back to work. Or whatever.

[Jiro]

That's very soon! You're obviously working quite hard on the project. I'm not familiar with the original japanese script and I couldn't read it even if I was, so I'll be interested in seeing how you've tweaked it. If your copy is more "truthful" or at least more accurate, it'd be awesome to see how much, if anything changed. Even nuances will be interesting, I like language :D

[Silent Warrior]

Oh, I don't know about 'working hard' - it's not like I usually have to do much with the bits I see fit to change. But I seem to have actually finished a first draft, weighing in at a tidy 219 Mb, compressed with 7Zip. Now to figure out how to distribute this thing... Stand by for a .torrent. ... Hm, maybe I should have a closer look at the rules, just in case.

Dusted off - final release on the way, on Mediafire.

[Silent Warrior]

Hey, THIS warrants a bump! This is now on Mediafire. Go for it!

Part 1 (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?3ykbiylj2iei7pi)
Part 2 (http://www.mediafire.com/?ukub7f54t0aa3ap)

[Update]
KNOWN ISSUES:
Opening hours for Balamb Garden's training center was mysteriously misplaced. Until someone tells me what those hours are, the coming R2 will say that it's 'always open'.
There is also a spot I would like to edit when you first meet Selphie, and when you speak to the card guy at the walkway leading to the elevator, but I can't seem to find them in Garden...
[Update AGAIN]
Speaking to Seifer after Dollet crashes, and I'll have to find a solution in order to continue testing. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with my mod, although an error log suggests some .sfx file or other wasn't found. I DON'T WANNA! :cry:

Anyway, I'll be back with further reports.

In today's news, the crashes seem to have something to do with my hardware and Aali's custom driver (which incidentally lets you play FF7/8 at ludicrous res., with shaders). I'll be continuing my test run on an unmodified install. (Note to ATI-users: FF8 appears to be the only game in my possession where ATI's morphological AA actually makes things prettier. Remember to skip out on AF, though...)

[Update, 18/1]
WARNING! R1 makes a serious mess of the conversations related to finding the White SeeD ship. The events still trigger as they should, it's no showstopper, but the text... is just FUBAR. R2 should fix this. The part of the game involving the Zell + Girl with a Pig-tail might also be affected, but I haven't come across those bits in-game yet...

[Update, 21/1]
FINAL RELEASE! Well, v. 1, at the very least. I have now finished a playthrough with the new text, and corrected the errors, mistakes, and whatnots that I came across. Unless there is a report from other people regarding

[WildRaubtier]

Hey, were you still having trouble with the "ETSTA2" text box? I stumbled across this thread a while ago and noticed you asking for assistance with it, but at the time I couldn't find where I'd put a program called 8mimic. Anyway, last night I found it.

ETSTA2 is the station at the Esthar end of the train bridge, at dusk (ETSTA1 is the same area, during the day).
Here's a text dump from the area that I could get.
Old Man
"With the sunset every morning
and afternoon, it really messes
with my sleeping schedule."

"You wish to challenge me?"
Yes
No

"You seem to know rules
unfamiliar to this region.
What do you say we play with
Balamb's rules and ours?"

"You seem to know rules
unfamiliar to this region.
What do you say we play with
Galbadia's rules and ours?"

"You seem to know rules
unfamiliar to this region.
What do you say we play with
Trabia's rules and ours?"

"You seem to know rules
unfamiliar to this region.
What do you say we play with
Centra's rules and ours?"

"You seem to know rules
unfamiliar to this region.
What do you say we play with
Dollet's rules and ours?"

"You seem to know rules
unfamiliar to this region.
What do you say we play with
FH's rules and ours?"

"You seem to know rules
unfamiliar to this region.
What do you say we play with
Lunar's rules and ours?"

"You seem to know rules
unfamiliar to this region.
What do you say we play with
Esthar's rules and ours?"

You need 5 or more
cards to play.

The "Open" rule has spread
throughout this region.

The "Same" rule has spread
throughout this region.

The "Plus" rule has spread
throughout this region.

The "Random" rule has spread
throughout this region.

The "Sudden Death" rule has spread
throughout this region.

The "Retry" rule has spread
throughout this region.

The "Same Wall" rule has spread
throughout this region.

The "Elemental" rule has spread
throughout this region.

The "Open" rule was abolished
from this region.

The "Same" rule was abolished
from this region.

The "Plus" rule was abolished
from this region.

The "Random" rule was abolished
from this region.

The "Sudden Death" rule was abolished
from this region.

The "Retry" rule was abolished
from this region.

The "Same Wall" rule was abolished
from this region.

The "Elemental" rule was abolished
from this region.


3569335694

[Silent Warrior]

Yep, that's the place... But what on Earth should I replace the Old Man's message with? Hm, maybe I should bite the bullet and investigate the Japanese text.

[ReloadPsi]

And Fujin in general. In the Japanese version, she spoke only in kanji and to some extent, they carried over that same effect of limited speech in the English releases, but I don't see why it had to be all-capitals. She's not even yelling most of the time.

In the French version, an exchange between Fujin and Raijin goes something like this:

Fujin: Tell them why we're here!
Raijin: We came to deliver a message, ya know!

Fujin: Ask them about Seifer!
Raijin: Where's Seifer?
Squall: Seifer may be dead.
Fujin: Tell them that's ridiculous!
Raijin: That's ridiculous!
Fujin: Tell them we're going to look for him!
Raijin: We're going to look for Seifer!

I wish I still had all the screenshots I took of my last run through that version because the French translation is so different.

Also check out this oddity:FF8: Major creative difference in the French translation! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuzvMtj0zcY&t=0m26s)
(The annotations I put in to translate are a bit literal, but with the annotation editor being as it is now I don't really want to go back and alter them.)

[Silent Warrior]

That's a really interesting retranslation. It doesn't mesh with the interpretation I have of her character, so I won't remake Fujin into her French image, but those translators are definitely a credit to humanity. Good thinking.