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Loony BoB
12-11-2011, 01:03 PM
Naughty Dog - going from making one of the best series ever, playing a game that felt different to all the other games being released at the time.

Now? A zombie game. Really, Sony? Really?

God, I hope it turns out differently than I'm already expecting. :(

Shattered Dreamer
12-11-2011, 03:13 PM
It looks like I am Legend crossed with Uncharted which on paper sounds great but there have been way to many zombie games already. Given that it's a Naughty Dog project I've got high hopes for this one.

Skyblade
12-11-2011, 03:37 PM
Hey, it could be worse. They could be taking a familiar IP and trying to rebuild it into a completely different game that just tries to pack in with an already over-filled market. Y'know, like taking X-Com and making a shooter out of it. At least Uncharted is probably going to remain untouched.

Pike
12-11-2011, 03:51 PM
I never actually thought zombie games were overdone. Not good ones, at least.

I'm excited to see what they do with this one. I won't be playing it, because I don't have a PS3 (nor do I have any intention of buying one), but I'm interested to see how it turns out, nonetheless.

Levian
12-11-2011, 05:34 PM
Zombies as enemies are getting boring, zombies kill people just because they're zombies and that's what zombies do. Make the enemy someone with a motive (other than "braaaaains!!!") and we might have a great plot on our hands!

Madame Adequate
12-11-2011, 07:58 PM
Every time this complaint rolls around I have the same reaction: Please show me all these zombie games that I have missed. Because there are plenty of games out there where zombies are an enemy, but they could just as easily be replaced with commies or nazis or robots or aliens or what have you. Zombies have shallow motives? Sure, find me a videogame where the enemy doesn't and I'll show you a rare gem. These are Not Zombie Games™, they are games which happen to include zombies. You might as well complain about a new SSX because there are ice levels in Sonic. Rye talks about an angle on zombies here (http://beefuzz.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/of-zombie-media/) and she's pretty much spot on; if the zombie apocalypse isn't about the survivors, then it's not a piece of zombie media.

Games which are actually about zombies are pretty fucking rare, in fact I can think of Project Zomboid, Dead State, Dead Rising, Dead Island (debatable for the same reason), RDR: Undead Nightmare and that's it. Probably a few flash games knocking around as well.

Loony BoB
12-11-2011, 08:34 PM
If you can't spot that zombies are a massive 'thing' at the moment in video games, you're not noticing many video games. Even Call of Duty has zombies these days. And perhaps you're confusing my definition of zombies with the "particular" definition of zombies. I don't mean "Undead, those who raise from the dead, those who eat brains." I mean "those who have no mind for themselves and are basically strong humans with the brain of a predatory animal." They are a cheap way to get out of having to come up with an enemy which is intelligent and a cheap way to get out of a good plot. I know that there can be good games with them, but there comes a point where it feels like every other game is just another zombie game and that's when it becomes kind of annoying, especially when it comes from studios like Naughty Dog who quite frankly are good enough to do games that aren't already overdone. I do hope that they come up with something really interesting though, something unique and inventive. Either that or have an epic plot, or awesome characters. But if I want to play a game with zombies, I tend to just wait for the next L4D game in order to get my fix.

Anyway. Since 2008.

Dead Nation, Dead Block, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Dead Rising 2, Left4Dead, Left4Dead 2, Call of Duty: World at War: Zombies, Yakuza: Dead Souls, Rock of the Dead, Zombie Panic in Wonderland, Zombie Wranglers, Undead Knights, The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned, Zombie Tycoon, Burn Zombie Burn!, Plants vs. Zombies, Zombie Apocalypse, I Made a Game with Zombies in It!, Shellshock 2: Blood Trails, The Last Guy, Little Red Riding Hood's Zombie BBQ, Teenage Zombies: Invasion of the Alien Brain Thingys!, Killing Floor, OneeChanbara Revolution, Resident Evil 5, Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles, Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D, Resident Evil: Revelations, Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, Resident Evil 4 HD, Resident Evil Code: Veronica X, The House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return, The House of the Dead: Overkill, Silent Hill Homecoming, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Silent Hill: Downpour.

From one list I found online, anyway. I recognise well over half of those titles.

EDIT: Perhaps the weird thing is that I'd enjoy it if they returned to a 'slow moving' zombie game purely because I'm so sick of the current 'generation' of zombies. xD

Depression Moon
12-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Yeah I agree; zombie games are getting boring. Where are all the games where monkeys, pirates, and food are the enemies?

Pete for President
12-11-2011, 09:00 PM
I mean "those who have no mind for themselves and are basically strong humans with the brain of a predatory animal."

No offense to anyone intended, but ironically the first thought that popped in my head is that Naughty Dog is literally trying to get closer to their target audience.


They are a cheap way to get out of having to come up with an enemy which is intelligent and a cheap way to get out of a good plot.

Agreed.

Anyway, on the subject. I thought the first trailer with the real footage was promising because it hinted more to a global protest/revolution thing. Now that it's zombies it's just meh. A little cliché like Loony BoB mentioned.

Slothy
12-11-2011, 09:20 PM
They are a cheap way to get out of having to come up with an enemy which is intelligent and a cheap way to get out of a good plot.

First off, I agree with everything Milf said. Which is why I disagree with this point very strongly. The draw of zombies is that they are a mindless, effectively endless, untiring horde, and what that means for the survivors in a world over run. Yeah, zombies can be used as a cheap way out of having an interesting story. Just like Nazi's, Russians, monsters with a vague or non-existent back story, giant turtles who kidnap princesses because, well, why not, and evil sorcerers who want to rule the world because they're evil.

The problem you have isn't with zombies, it's with lazy game developers jumping on the bandwagon with a popular trend. Just like what happened 10+ years ago when Medal of Honor came out and every FPS had Nazi's, and just like every other time period and media in history has and continues to do.


Anyway. Since 2008.

Dead Nation, Dead Block, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Dead Rising 2, Left4Dead, Left4Dead 2, Call of Duty: World at War: Zombies, Yakuza: Dead Souls, Rock of the Dead, Zombie Panic in Wonderland, Zombie Wranglers, Undead Knights, The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned, Zombie Tycoon, Burn Zombie Burn!, Plants vs. Zombies, Zombie Apocalypse, I Made a Game with Zombies in It!, Shellshock 2: Blood Trails, The Last Guy, Little Red Riding Hood's Zombie BBQ, Teenage Zombies: Invasion of the Alien Brain Thingys!, Killing Floor, OneeChanbara Revolution, Resident Evil 5, Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles, Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D, Resident Evil: Revelations, Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, Resident Evil 4 HD, Resident Evil Code: Veronica X, The House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return, The House of the Dead: Overkill, Silent Hill Homecoming, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Silent Hill: Downpour.

From one list I found online, anyway. I recognise well over half of those titles.

I recognize a lot of those titles too. Funny thing is most of the ones I recognize are either re-releases of games that have been out for years or not actually zombie games. For many of the rest, zombies are incidental. They could be replaced with just about anything else and nothing would be lost from the games.

So the question becomes quite simple to me really: is Naughty Dog a talented enough developer to make a zombie game that features a well told and thought out story and, if not bring something new to it, tell an interesting story well? Past experience is telling me it's a bit silly to doubt them now.

Loony BoB
12-11-2011, 09:42 PM
The problem you have isn't with zombies, it's with lazy game developers jumping on the bandwagon with a popular trend. Just like what happened 10+ years ago when Medal of Honor came out and every FPS had Nazi's, and just like every other time period and media in history has and continues to do.
While true, it's also down to the sheer number of games hopping on that mainstream has meant, for me at least, that they have already explored all the avenues and reached all heights that current consoles can reach. I concede a fear that I can already know what to expect out of zombie games (same goes for post-nuclear war games) that come out these days. Yes, WWII games were overdone at one point, too, and perhaps still are. But that's the point - 'beating a dead horse' can be done. Vampire films/TV shows... sure, you might be able to count them on your fingers over the past few years but they're prominent enough to become very tiresome. There is no niche for this anymore, no aspect of these games that piques my interest. Nothing groundbreaking, nothing new, nothing daring, nothing original, nothing that we havent already played a few times over. When that happens, I start looking for something a little different.

I do hope it turns out differently than I fear but the fear is there and the sadness is there that they have gone closer to the cliché FPS rather than further away. I hope, though, that you guys are right and that Naughty Dog prove me wrong because if there is any developer out there who can prove me wrong, I'm sure it will be them. I hope infected are few in number and that it's not a warpath through hundreds of them per level. I hope that bullets are rare, that exploration is key, that there is something different about the infected (eg. to take a note from Shattered Dreamer, they could be hurt by sunlight, and we could have our characters explore during the day and fortify at night... stuff like that), stuff like this... fingers crossed!

Madame Adequate
12-11-2011, 09:53 PM
:zombert:


If you can't spot that zombies are a massive 'thing' at the moment in video games, you're not noticing many video games. Even Call of Duty has zombies these days.

Yes,


there are plenty of games out there where zombies are an enemy

and my point was that "inclusion of zombies as enemies" does not equate to "zombie games" in any meaningful way. CoDBLOPS is not about zombies, and including zombies as enemies does not make it a piece of "zombie media", it just makes it a game which happens to have a zombie-themed bonus as an aside from the meat of the game. There is a difference, fundamentally, between a piece of zombie media and a piece of media which happens to include zombies.


And perhaps you're confusing my definition of zombies with the "particular" definition of zombies. I don't mean "Undead, those who raise from the dead, those who eat brains." I mean "those who have no mind for themselves and are basically strong humans with the brain of a predatory animal."

Yes how strange that I would use the definition of zombies that everyone else uses rather than your particular definition :p My point is that what the zombies 'are' is less important than how they are used. They are an omnipresent, particularly horrific natural disaster, and the point of zombies is how the survivors react to the situation, not mowing through hordes of them. Don't get me wrong the second one can be a lot of fun, but the zombies of a game like that can be handily replaced with any of a dozen other stock enemies in videogames and there's not a lot of difference. If this is possible it is not a zombie game.


Huge Ass List

Almost none of those are zombie games. They are just games which use zombies. If you seriously have a problem with people using zombies a lot then fine, but the solution is not to complain "abloo bloo bloo too many zombie games :crying:", it is to demand that zombies actually get used for something useful rather than being a generic enemy. To that end you should probably be supportive of a company you really like doing a zombie game because they might actually make, you know, a zombie game rather than a shooter that just has zombies in it!


EDIT: Perhaps the weird thing is that I'd enjoy it if they returned to a 'slow moving' zombie game purely because I'm so sick of the current 'generation' of zombies. xD

On this part we agree at least xD

Fake edit 'cause you posted again


While true, it's also down to the sheer number of games hopping on that mainstream has meant, for me at least, that they have already explored all the avenues and reached all heights that current consoles can reach. I concede a fear that I can already know what to expect out of zombie games (same goes for post-nuclear war games) that come out these days. Yes, WWII games were overdone at one point, too, and perhaps still are. But that's the point - 'beating a dead horse' can be done. Vampire films/TV shows... sure, you might be able to count them on your fingers over the past few years but they're prominent enough to become very tiresome. There is no niche for this anymore, no aspect of these games that piques my interest. Nothing groundbreaking, nothing new, nothing daring, nothing original, nothing that we havent already played a few times over. When that happens, I start looking for something a little different.

If you think zombies don't still have potential to make some seriously interesting games then you don't know shit about zombies and are desperately unimaginative. Developers being lazy does not mean the subject of their laziness is exhausted, especially because they're all using them in the same way. Just because they change the zombies into mutated sapient foreskins doesn't mean the core gameplay will change if they're not being original, and the presence or absence of zombies is only indicative of dev laziness, it isn't make games worse in itself.


I do hope it turns out differently than I fear but the fear is there and the sadness is there that they have gone closer to the cliché FPS rather than further away. I hope, though, that you guys are right and that Naughty Dog prove me wrong because if there is any developer out there who can prove me wrong, I'm sure it will be them. I hope infected are few in number and that it's not a warpath through hundreds of them per level. I hope that bullets are rare, that exploration is key, that there is something different about the infected (eg. to take a note from Shattered Dreamer, they could be hurt by sunlight, and we could have our characters explore during the day and fortify at night... stuff like that), stuff like this... fingers crossed!

As I said: Project Zomboid.

Loony BoB
12-11-2011, 10:06 PM
I know about Project Zomboid, I'm talking about the games that are a little more mainstream and, uh, "finished", for lack of a better word. But you probably knew that. :) I do like my little indy games from time to time (and more often than not that time lasts quite some time once I get into it!) - as you're probably aware - but I still want my epic games!

And saying that my definition of zombies is inaccurate is like saying I Am Legend is not a zombie flick. :p Technically, they are 'infected', not dead... but let's face it, we all call them zombies. :p

DMKA
12-11-2011, 10:16 PM
Is it fair to call them zombies? I was getting far more of an I Am Legend feel from it.

I'm excited to see what it's actually going to be about and how the gameplay is. It's Naughty Dog, so I can only expect it to be awesome.

Depression Moon
12-11-2011, 10:19 PM
I Am Legend had vampires not zombies.

Levian
12-11-2011, 10:48 PM
Every time this complaint rolls around I have the same reaction: Please show me all these zombie games that I have missed. Because there are plenty of games out there where zombies are an enemy, but they could just as easily be replaced with commies or nazis or robots or aliens or what have you. Zombies have shallow motives? Sure, find me a videogame where the enemy doesn't and I'll show you a rare gem. These are Not Zombie Games™, they are games which happen to include zombies. You might as well complain about a new SSX because there are ice levels in Sonic. Rye talks about an angle on zombies here (http://beefuzz.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/of-zombie-media/) and she's pretty much spot on; if the zombie apocalypse isn't about the survivors, then it's not a piece of zombie media.

Games which are actually about zombies are pretty smurfing rare, in fact I can think of Project Zomboid, Dead State, Dead Rising, Dead Island (debatable for the same reason), RDR: Undead Nightmare and that's it. Probably a few flash games knocking around as well.

I'm sorry if my post came across as just picking on zombie games, zombies are the topic of the thread, so that's what I addressed. I find games with other mindless creatures, like the ones you mentioned, to be just as lacking in plot in general. Horrors in general are as well lacking in plot, and it's a damn shame, because the genre has so much potential to be great.

"Zombies have shallow motives? Sure, find me a videogame where the enemy doesn't and I'll show you a rare gem."

That's the whole point really, there's not too many good horrors out there. It'd be nice if they would put some effort into the story part of the game rather than filling it with killing monsters because they are monsters. Zombie (and other monster) games is an offender in this area. They're so close to being games that I like, yet so far away. That's what annoys me, make good horrors damn it!

Hopefully I don't have to wrap [imo] tags around my post?

Psychotic
12-11-2011, 10:50 PM
Dead Nation, Dead Block, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Dead Rising 2, Left4Dead, Left4Dead 2, Call of Duty: World at War: Zombies, Yakuza: Dead Souls, Rock of the Dead, Zombie Panic in Wonderland, Zombie Wranglers, Undead Knights, The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned, Zombie Tycoon, Burn Zombie Burn!, Plants vs. Zombies, Zombie Apocalypse, I Made a Game with Zombies in It!, Shellshock 2: Blood Trails, The Last Guy, Little Red Riding Hood's Zombie BBQ, Teenage Zombies: Invasion of the Alien Brain Thingys!, Killing Floor, OneeChanbara Revolution, Resident Evil 5, Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles, Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D, Resident Evil: Revelations, Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, Resident Evil 4 HD, Resident Evil Code: Veronica X, The House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return, The House of the Dead: Overkill, Silent Hill Homecoming, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Silent Hill: Downpour.Ignoring multiple entries from franchises (Looking at you, Resi!) how many of these games actually play the same? You can't honestly be comparing Plants vs Zombies to Resident Evil 5, or CoD to Dead Rising 2. It's like being pissed off that both Final Fantasy and Dynasty Warriors both feature a lot of sword based combat, or that Kingdom Hearts and GTA have aerial combat.

I mean, you say "If I want to fight zombies I'll play L4D" well that's just a really narrow view, isn't it? I don't think "Boy, I want to fight zombies!" I think, "I want a fast-paced timed challenge with ridiculous bosses" and end up with playing the Mercenaries on Resident Evil 5. Or maybe I think "I want to dick about with a buddy, dress up in silly outfits and cause chaos with ridiculous weapons" I'll play Dead Rising 2. I think you are pigeonholing everything into "Zombie game" and you should really open your mind because you're missing out on some fucking awesome games. And I emphasise that - fucking awesome games, not fucking awesome zombie games.

Slothy
12-11-2011, 10:52 PM
I know about Project Zomboid, I'm talking about the games that are a little more mainstream and, uh, "finished", for lack of a better word. But you probably knew that. :)

Well that's a shame, because what little there was to Project Zomboid when I first played it was already more original, interesting and entertaining than most zombie games out there, and certainly better than 99% of what you listed.

Frankly, I'd love to see a AAA title as well that handles living in a zombie world half as well as it does.

And again, I have to agree with Milf entirely. The fact that there are a lot of zombie games doesn't make a legitimately great zombie game worse. It may make it more likely to get lost in the shuffle, or result in some people passing over it because they wrongly assume early on that it's just more of the same. But overuse of a thing is not a critique of the merits of the thing when done right. And by and large there have been few zombie games that ever did it right. But that also means there is a deep untapped well of potential to draw from that is unique to the concept of a zombie apocalypse, and I definitely look forward to a company of Naughty Dog's caliber putting out their take on it. Maybe it will be different from everything else out there and maybe it won't, but it will likely be very good and well worth playing no matter what direction they take it in.

Depression Moon
12-11-2011, 11:00 PM
Zombies have shallow motives? Sure, find me a videogame where the enemy doesn't and I'll show you a rare gem.

Uh Final Fantasy, Batman AA & AC, Metal Gear, Beyond Good & Evil.

Loony BoB
12-11-2011, 11:17 PM
I'm fairly certain I've already noted that there games with zombies can be good (and yes, Psy, I was just starting to get carried away when I began throwing every game with zombies together, but you can still get the general idea that there are a lot of them - that is, First/Third Person Shooter vs. Zombies, not Plants vs. Zombies!) - they can be! And for what it's worth, I do like some games with zombies. But there's only so much of the feeling of being "in a world destroyed by infected/mutated/undead people who are out to eat your braaaaaains" I can take in my annual gaming fix. D=

My concern is the "beating a dead horse" deal. We have these games already, and as you guys said, they're already done well on many an occasion. Unless, as MILF said, someone were to make an AAA title along the lines of Project Zomboid (ie, amazingly different), I just can't drive myself to be excited about these games. Because I've played them already, you know? But maybe The Last of Us will be that one game that pushes the 'Shooter vs. Zombies' genre to the point that it could win game of the year. Maybe! I can hope! :D

Rostum
12-11-2011, 11:57 PM
I've only seen the recent VGA trailer, and I haven't really read this thread... But is it a zombie game? The things looked more like monsters than zombies, so it might just be a survival horror type game?

I'm not really in to zombies, but I love survival games. Also the tech behind the game looks absolutely amazing, if it truely is in real-time like they say.

Mo-Nercy
12-12-2011, 05:17 AM
People bagged Uncharted when it was in dev because it pretty much looked like Tomb Raider minus boobs. I'm not going to start doubting Naughty Dog just yet.

Bolivar
12-12-2011, 12:33 PM
Are you guys really positing that games filled to the brim with zombies and obvious derivatives are not actually zombie games? I don't care if it's an intimate, personal story about survival or a a mindless shoot-em-up, both ends of the spectrum still exploit an overused setting that's been done to death in literature, games, and film over the last few years.

I don't really mind if companies stick to oversaturated genres (I loved a good 4-5 FPS titles this year), but I do find it quite humorous that Geoff Keighley was hyping up "VGA MIND-BLOWING WORLD REVEAL OF A GAME-CHANGING PS3 EXCLUSIVE THAT'S NOTHING YOU COULD EVER EXPECT" and Sony and afterwards Naughty Dog claiming a "Unique Experience unlike anything else out there..." and... yeah, it's a another post-apocalyptic zombie (or zombie derivative) game. I'm sure the characters will be relatable and the production values will be through the roof, I just enjoyed a little bit of irony out of its reveal.

But seriously, why are we talking about games like Metal Gear Rising Revengeance and this??? COMMAND & CONQUER GENERALS 2 IS ANNOUNCED AND IT'S UNDER THE CARE OF BIOWARE!!!!

:hyper:

Slothy
12-12-2011, 02:13 PM
Are you guys really positing that games filled to the brim with zombies and obvious derivatives are not actually zombie games? I don't care if it's an intimate, personal story about survival or a a mindless shoot-em-up, both ends of the spectrum still exploit an overused setting that's been done to death in literature, games, and film over the last few years.

When the game in question could easily replace their zombies with just about any other generic monster or enemy and doesn't utilize any of the strengths that the setting can bring to a story, then no it's not a zombie game. It's a game that happens to have zombies in it but the zombies are incidental to everything else. The zombie modes in COD could use rabid racoons or bears and not substantially change the formula. And games like RE4 and 5 aren't really zombie games at all.

And the thing is, you say the formula has been done to death and overused in all media including games, but with the exception of Project Zomboid, there hasn't been anything that really captured the feel of being a survivor in the zombie apocalypse. Nothing. Not a single game I know of to go that direction. Strangely enough, the closest things I can think of were the Resident Evil: Outbreak series, and that was still pretty unrealistic. Games have yet to move past the zombies are fun to kill use despite the fact that movies like Night of the Living Dead and Dawn of the Dead were doing more with the formula decades ago, and Comics/TV shows like the Walking Dead are doing more with it now.


But seriously, why are we talking about games like Metal Gear Rising Revengeance and this??? COMMAND & CONQUER GENERALS 2 IS ANNOUNCED AND IT'S UNDER THE CARE OF BIOWARE!!!!

:hyper:

Not to get too off topic, but I never played many of the older C&C games that were apparently good, so I don't really care about the announcement of a new one. And I care even less because BioWare are doing it. I've played enough of their games at this point to simply accept that I don't like them (not to mention BioWare is now made up of four separate development teams, only one of which being the original that made the games everyone raved about like KOTOR, Mass Effect etc. Guess who isn't making this new C&C game by the way).

Old Manus
12-12-2011, 03:44 PM
I agree with BoB. Shoehorning zombies into your game is the new chesthighwalls/PRESS A TO COVER/killenemiestoearnpointstospendonupgr[!] [/!]adingweapons. Except hopefully it is just a passing fad.

Quindiana Jones
12-12-2011, 06:09 PM
I was going to make this thread, except it would've been titled "Developer of bland, crappy action games making a bland, crappy zombie game".

Bolivar
12-13-2011, 07:11 AM
When the game in question could easily replace their zombies with just about any other generic monster or enemy and doesn't utilize any of the strengths that the setting can bring to a story, then no it's not a zombie game. It's a game that happens to have zombies in it but the zombies are incidental to everything else. The zombie modes in COD could use rabid racoons or bears and not substantially change the formula. And games like RE4 and 5 aren't really zombie games at all.

I'm not going to overextend myself in this with a wall of text. I'm just going to say I think claiming "these things don't do the stuff that I think could make it better" doesn't allow you to discount it from the genre. Call of Duty could replace Russians with yettis and the story would probably make more sense... but it's still a military shooter. And if those things you think these games lack are feelings of isolation, fear, and a desperate need to gather resources to survive, I'd be hard pressed to name an alleged Zombie game that doesn't have those things.



Not to get too off topic, but I never played many of the older C&C games that were apparently good, so I don't really care about the announcement of a new one. And I care even less because BioWare are doing it. I've played enough of their games at this point to simply accept that I don't like them (not to mention BioWare is now made up of four separate development teams, only one of which being the original that made the games everyone raved about like KOTOR, Mass Effect etc. Guess who isn't making this new C&C game by the way).

I thought you were into older RTS games? If you're familiar with the genre (THEY'RE NOT STRATEGY GAMES BECAUSE THEY COULD BE DOING SO MUCH MORE WITH THE SETTING!!! (j/k)) then you might not find them as impressive. But C&C is my favorite RTS series. Generals was the only one after the departure of the original developers, Westwood (now Petroglyph - check out End of Nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Nations)(no excuse not to, I linked it for ya ;))) to maintain the superb quailty of the older games, and arguably surpass it.

I don't care for Bioware much myself, but that's due to a creative choice, I'm just not interested in their flavor of game. But I do recognize and respect the care they bring to their titles so I'm happy about this.

Pete for President
12-13-2011, 07:34 AM
I was going to make this thread, except it would've been titled "Developer of bland, crappy action games making a bland, crappy zombie game".

I would approve :shifty:

Slothy
12-13-2011, 10:56 AM
And if those things you think these games lack are feelings of isolation, fear, and a desperate need to gather resources to survive, I'd be hard pressed to name an alleged Zombie game that doesn't have those things.

Funny, because I really can't think of many that have ever pulled off any of those things. Most games with zombies these days have simply become action games where they rarely try and impart any sense of fear, require resource management to survive, or pull off the sense of isolation. They can still be great games mind you. The L4D series is utterly brilliant. But that's not because it makes the most of the zombie formula (though they actually try harder than other games if you stop shooting hordes long enough to look around at the little details they add to the world).


I thought you were into older RTS games? If you're familiar with the genre (THEY'RE NOT STRATEGY GAMES BECAUSE THEY COULD BE DOING SO MUCH MORE WITH THE SETTING!!! (j/k)) then you might not find them as impressive. But C&C is my favorite RTS series. Generals was the only one after the departure of the original developers, Westwood (now Petroglyph - check out End of Nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Nations)(no excuse not to, I linked it for ya ;))) to maintain the superb quailty of the older games, and arguably surpass it.

I am into strategy games quite a bit. I think the reason I missed out on it was that I got into strategy games around when Starcraft and Alpha Centauri came out, and I really didn't play a whole lot more than those for a while, because, well, they were Starcraft and Alpha Centauri. It's hard not to sink years into those games. I had always heard a lot about C&C at the time, it just never really worked out that I got one, in part because I wasn't sure where to start with the series to be honest.


I don't care for Bioware much myself, but that's due to a creative choice, I'm just not interested in their flavor of game. But I do recognize and respect the care they bring to their titles so I'm happy about this.

Not to spit on your hopes or anything, but that was kind of my point. This isn't the main Bioware dev team. This is a completely separate dev team that just got renamed to capitalize on the Bioware name. One would certainly hope they would put a lot of care into their game as Bioware does (even if I've never liked a Bioware game), but I hope for that with every game developer. But since we literally know nothing about who is working at this new developer, it's hard to say if they'll pull it off.

Freya
12-13-2011, 11:17 AM
I agree with milf before i started skipping posts because they were tl:dr. I wouldn't call the CoD's zombie games. They are games that also have a few maps with zombies in it. But yeah the zombie genre is about survival not so much zombies. Why do you think the show walking dead is doing so well?

I agree about the point that zombies are everywhere now but I wouldn't say all the games you listed are really "zombie" games.

Bolivar
12-13-2011, 09:28 PM
Not to spit on your hopes or anything, but that was kind of my point. This isn't the main Bioware dev team. This is a completely separate dev team that just got renamed to capitalize on the Bioware name. One would certainly hope they would put a lot of care into their game as Bioware does (even if I've never liked a Bioware game), but I hope for that with every game developer. But since we literally know nothing about who is working at this new developer, it's hard to say if they'll pull it off.

That their other dev teams don't bring care to their games? So far the only complaints I've heard were, like mine, creative issues. Like ME2 being too shootery or DAII being too hack n slashey. I haven't heard anything about them failing the bare minimum issues of quality control or that their design concepts were flawed by virtue of themselves. After the last few C&C titles I'm just hoping for something that gets the basics right... nostalgia will do the rest for me :)

Slothy
12-14-2011, 03:32 AM
Those games were still made by the original Bioware team though, not any of the new ones (though I think one was created specifically to assist the other teams). This new team certainly had nothing to do with it unless some personnel have been shuffled around.

And I'm sure the majority of game developers want to make every game they work on amazing and put all of the care and effort in the world into it. Doesn't keep most from making bad games. And slapping the Bioware name on a new development team doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be able to make a game of the quality that Bioware does (if that's what you'd call what they do).

And really, at this point I think we're pretty far off topic so it's probably best to leave the Bioware discussion and get back to talk of Naughty Dog making awesome games.