NFL... Playoffs?!?

[Raistlin]

How do you feel about the NFL playoffs? Who's going to the Super Bowl? The Captain posted his playoff predictions in the EoFF Fantasy Football league page, but since that's over with I figured I would post it here for people to comment on, as it is fairly detailed and well thought-out and we can make fun of his blatant Giants homerism.


With the regular season ending in spectacular fashion, it's time for some playoff football predictions!

In the AFC:

(6) Bengals defeat the (3) Texans - The Texans are banged up and haven't played really well the last few weeks. The Bengals, are young, feisty and have nothing to lose. I like them to pull out a tight one. Final: 24-14, Bengals.

(5) Steelers defeat the (4) Broncos - Tebow time is over as the Steelers run rough-shot over them, setting up a tasty second round matchup against their hated rivals, the Ravens. Final: 31-10, Steelers.

(1) Pats defeat the (6) Bengals - As bad as the New England defense is, Brady will prove just too much here. Final: 31-21, New England.

(2) Ravens defeat the (4) Steelers - In a classic, smash-mouth game, I think the Ravens pull it out. With Big Ben not at 100%, I like Baltimore to dictate play with Ray Rice. Final: 17-14, Ravens

(2) Ravens defeat (1) Pats - Brady can't mask his defense forever and Baltimore on the other hand plays excellent D, to pull out a tight game. Final: 24-21, Ravens

In the NFC:

(3) New Orleans defeat (6) Lions - What a tasty offensive matchup!! I expect both teams to explode for big plays, lots of TD's and make this a game to really love. In the end though, the Saints have been unreal at home and Brees is playing out of his mind right now. Final: 42-34, New Orleans.

(4) Giants defeat (5) Falcons - The Giants are looking like a scary matchup now, with a dominate pass-rush and Eli Manning playing at an MVP level. I like them to knock around Matt Ryan and Victor Cruz to do more dancing. Final: 28-20, Giants.

(4) Giants defeat (1) Green Bay - UPSET ALERT! The Giants gave Green Bay all it could handle a few weeks ago and if anything, they've only improved as a team. Rodgers will be very tough to beat but I feel a reverse of what happened during the season plays out here, this time Manning leading the Giants down for a game winning FG. Final: 31-28, Giants.

(3) New Orleans defeat (2) San Francisco - An amazing season for the 49ers ends suddenly as the biggest edge of the game: Brees versus Alex Smith rears its head. Final: 27-14, Saints.

(3) New Orleans defeat (4) New York - Drew Brees is just incredible. As amazing as Aaron Rodgers has been, I think Brees may have edged him out this season for best QB play. He may not win MVP, but he is the best QB in the game. At home, the Saints are scary good and the Giants attempt to recapture 2007 comes up valiantly short. Final: 38-30, Saints.

Which sets up:

New Orleans over Baltimore in the Super Bowl. Brees caps a magical season by winning his second Super Bowl MVP and his team does just enough on defense to keep Baltimore at bay. Final: 24-17, Saints.

Looking forward to it!

And an interesting footnote about the season we just watched: Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Matt Stafford and Eli Manning threw for 4 of the 6 highest passing totals OF ALL TIME this season. The NFL is a passing league, accept it and enjoy.

Take care all.

Eli Manning playing at an MVP level where he finished behind Tony Romo in basically every statistical category except for yardage, and finished the season with 2 bad games out of the last 3 (passer ratings of 45, 61, and 136)? He arguably shouldn't have even made it to the Pro Bowl over Matt Stafford.

Other than that, I agree with Cap'n that the two top seeds (Patriots and Packers) are vulnerable in the playoffs. I think whoever wins the inevitable Baltimore/Pittsburgh rematch (probably Baltimore with Roethlisberger maybe not 100%) will beat New England and their terrible, terrible defense. And I think the Giants and Saints could beat the Packers, though the Saints are a bit suspect on the road.

I will, of course, be cheering for whatever team is playing the Patriots. Go everyone else!

[charliepanayi]

My predictions for this weekend:

Houston
New Orleans
Atlanta
Pittsburgh

At the moment I think it's either Green Bay or New Orleans to go all the way. Some interesting/pointless stats here:
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/PORecord-BySeed_v4_big.jpg

[Del Murder]

Give me another day to continue fuming over the Raiders missing the playoffs by 1 game again and I will make my picks. I'm sure you can all guess what I will predict for Denver.

[chionos]

I agree with the cap'n up to the point he picks the giants over the packers. As we saw last year, the Pack knows how to turn it on in the playoffs. They'll stomp all over the Giants. Keep in mind that I hate the Packers. Them and that Pats. Packs and Pats. Hate 'em both. The Bengals got a lucky trip to the playoffs this year. The AFC north is sending 3 teams to the playoffs (sorry Browns). Yet I think they can pull off a win against the Texans who they almost beat (maybe even should have beat if it weren't for bad officiating) just a few weeks ago. The Saints/49ers game should be a good test for the Saints' offense.

I'd love to see a Saints/Ravens matchup in the Super Bowl. Year in year out one of the best offenses verses year in year out one of the best defenses. The only thing that could be better would be a Patriots/Packers super bowl that ends in a meteor crashing into the middle of Lucas Oil Stadium and ridding the world of both teams.

I should be cheering on my Bengals, but I know this isn't their year. Good run for a rebuilding season, though--finally got rid of all the stinkin' riffraff.

[Del Murder]

Why do people not like the Packers? Is it just because they are good? Is it because of Favre? I can understand the hate for the Patriots because Belichick is kind of an asshole and Tom Brady is a prettyboy, but a team owned by a small town in Wisconsin just sounds like a great American story. Bears fans excluded of course.

[charliepanayi]

Yeah, rivalries apart, no idea how anyone could take an especial dislike to this Packers team. It's cool how such a small town has such a powerhouse sports team.

[ljkkjlcm9]

All your Patriot hate is not appreciated. And the Packers actually gave up more yards per game, and more points per game than the Patriots. I honestly feel that the Patriots and the Saints both have better offenses than the Packers.

But I can tell you one thing, any team can win on any given day. That's half the reason I love NFL playoffs over other sports. One game, lose and you're out.

I would like one of two superbowls:
New Orleans vs. New England, because it would be legendary
San Francisco vs. Baltimore, because it would be a defensive battle

Predictions?
Houston lose to Bengals----Bengals lose to Pats
Broncos lose to Steelers---Steelers lose to Ravens-----Pats lose to Ravens
Giants lose to Falcon------Falcons lose to Green Bay---Green Bay lose to New Orleans
Lions lose to Saints-------San Fran lose to New Orleans

I expect a Ravens vs. Saints Superbowl

THE JACKEL

[chionos]

Why do people not like the Packers? Is it just because they are good? Is it because of Favre? I can understand the hate for the Patriots because Belichick is kind of an asshole and Tom Brady is a prettyboy, but a team owned by a small town in Wisconsin just sounds like a great American story. Bears fans excluded of course.

I guess I could give them a little credit for being the team from Podunk, except they're one of the winningest teams in NFL history so they don't get underdog or little guy points. Awesome for the town though, I can't fault them for having a winning team. I just looked it up, and they're the smallest town to have a team from one of the 4 main professional sports in NA and Canada. Even counting MLS and the CFL there's only one city smaller than them. It's really a nice cuddly story, or was right up until they won the very first super bowl ever. And the second. In the NFL hometown size has basically nothing at all to do with ability to win consistently (unlike MLB). The Steelers are the only team to have won more championships than the Packers and they're the 10th smallest NFL city.

My opinion of Rodgers coming up...

I can't speak for anyone else, because I'm sure a lot of the haters perfectly match your diagnosis, but I personally don't like them because of their arrogance and poor sportsmanship. And I guess when I say 'them' I really mean McCarthy and Rodgers. It's not because of Favre (because everything that happened to him he brought on himself) but it started then. I don't think the rest of the team gets enough credit or attention. Rodgers is a good quarterback, maybe even a great quarterback, but he's so overinflated that he's the most overrated QB in the league. Case in point, the Packer's second string quarterback started in just his second start of his career in the Pack's last game of the season, and put up absolutely ridiculous numbers, 6 TDs and almost 500 yards passing. Rodgers' stats are padded by the fact that he plays it safe and holds on to the ball too long leading to sacks and fumbles which unfortunately don't factor into QB stats as much as they should. Plus, Rodgers uses one of the worst TD celebrations ever, it's totally retarded. I guess I shouldn't hold these things against the team, and really I don't (I'm being at least partly facetious, I don't really want to see them die), except that McCarthy and Rodgers are the face of that franchise and I don't like what I see. Part of it is instinct to be honest. I watch them in interviews and I can see the arrogance and condescension behind everything they say.

[The Captain]

"Eli Manning playing at an MVP level where he finished behind Tony Romo in basically every statistical category except for yardage, and finished the season with 2 bad games out of the last 3 (passer ratings of 45, 61, and 136)? He arguably shouldn't have even made it to the Pro Bowl over Matt Stafford."

Four VERY important categories where Manning beat Romo this season:

Head To Head: 2 to 0
Game Winning Drives: 6 to 4
4th Quarter TD's: 15 to 10
4th Quarter QB Rating: 110 to 104

Romo had an excellent season but Manning was more clutch then him.

I stand by my belief that the Giants could beat the Pack in the playoffs. They are one of the only team capable of disrupting Rodgers with a pass rush and have an offense that can match them score for score. However... the Giants are just as capable of having a bad game and could also lose to the Falcons despite being home and having momentum. As a fan, I think they'll play great but if I'm being an analyst, they are a dicey bet.

Take care all.

[Raistlin]

My point wasn't that Romo is better than Eli Manning. If you couldn't tell from my negative commentary all year in the league, I'm not exactly a Romo fan. Romo was just used as an example of someone who obviously had not had an "MVP caliber" year but still performed arguably as well, if not better, than Manning (more TDs, less INTs, higher passer rating). And that it's hard to say that Manning is playing at such a high level when two of his last three games were pretty awful. Oh, and Stafford was a blatant Pro Bowl snub.

I do think the Giants have a good shot at beating the Packers in the playoffs, but I'm not sure they'll even beat the Falcons first.


Give me another day to continue fuming over the Raiders missing the playoffs by 1 game again and I will make my picks. I'm sure you can all guess what I will predict for Denver.

I was also sad when the Raiders lost; I was hoping they'd make the playoffs. At least now I can look forward to Tebow getting killed by Pittsburgh.

I suppose I should make my own predictions:

Cincinnati over Houston
Pittsburgh over Denver
New Orleans over Detroit
And... I really have no idea about Atlanta/New York. I guess I'll go with Atlanta, as the Giants will probably be favored at home, and that's when they suck the most.

EDIT: Oh, and:
I can understand the hate for the Patriots because Belichick is kind of an asshole and Tom Brady is a prettyboy...

Don't forget the Tuck Rule travesty (which I'm sure you of all people haven't). That's when my hate started. Belichick and Boston fans have just added fuel to it.

[chionos]

EDIT: Oh, and:
I can understand the hate for the Patriots because Belichick is kind of an asshole and Tom Brady is a prettyboy...

Don't forget the Tuck Rule travesty (which I'm sure you of all people haven't). That's when my hate started. Belichick and Boston fans have just added fuel to it.

I think a lot, if not most, of the animosity toward New England can be traced back to that moment.

Manning is a good scrambler, he pulls shet out of his ass sometimes, but I don't understand why he's ever been listed as or considered to be one of the nfl's elite. Maybe I just don't watch enough games. The ones I have seen haven't revealed anything very special about him. I could be totally wrong about him though, I don't catch a whole lot of Giants games. I will say this about the Manning vs. Romo comparisons, Manning is pretty clutch. He fucks up a lot too, but still, he's had chances to be clutch and pulled it out (SBXLII). Romo is the very opposite of clutch. The very moments he needs to play his best he totally forgets how to play football, how to even hold on to the ball. HOW MANY TIMES IS HE GOING TO FUMBLE THE BALL TO END A GAME? It's especially bad when he does it at the goal line.

[Del Murder]

The Tuck Rule game was perhaps the worst day of my life.

Here's a question: Would Brady, Belichick and the rest of the Patriots be where they are today if that play was rightfully called a fumble? Would Brady go on to become a superstar or would he be just another decent quarterback?

[chionos]

The world will never know.

I'm more perplexed by the question--How would the Raiders, as a team and as a city, have prospered as the result of a win in that Super Bowl? The Pats would still be where they are because they got where they are by being dirty rotten cheaters.

[charliepanayi]

Oakland would have probably lost to Pittsburgh in the Championship game that year anyway, they're the sort of team who finds ways to foul things up. I am not crazy about the Patriots, but the Superbowl they wound up winning that year was one of my favourite games.

[Del Murder]

Gannon would have shredded Pittsburgh. Oakland would have sucked eventually because the average age of their starting players that year was about 35, but I think they would have won the Super Bowl if they beat NE.

[ljkkjlcm9]

The world will never know.

I'm more perplexed by the question--How would the Raiders, as a team and as a city, have prospered as the result of a win in that Super Bowl? The Pats would still be where they are because they got where they are by being dirty rotten cheaters.

This whole thing is just annoying that years later people who clearly don't know the facts harp on it. This article is perfect
New England Patriots: Why Can't Spygate Just End, Forever? | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/629434-new-england-patriots-why-cant-spygate-just-end-forever)

and to add
Here is what Dick Vermeil had to say about Spygate:

"I don’t know if everyone was doing it, but everyone might’ve had a method of trying to do it. Maybe he did it better than everyone else. OK? And I’ll tell you this: In all honesty, I’ve coached as a head coach 15 years and an assistant four years, I know some things that have been done in the National Football League and I could document them, if I wanted to, that are far worse than that ever came close to being."

THE JACKEL

[chionos]

For those of you here to discuss the playoffs, ignore the spoiler.

Oh, the "everybody's doing it" excuse. That's a good one.
An article defending the Patriots from a blatant Patriot fan? That's your perfect evidence? First of all the article contradicts itself. The guy first goes on about how pointless it would be to tape the opponent's hand signals because it's not possible to use the knowledge gained in any way (implying then that there was no reason for the Patriots to tape anything). But then he attempts to make the point that the same thing was prevalent in the NFL and had been for years, using Jimmy Johnson of the Cowboys as an example. Well? So what if it did exist? All that means is that Jimmy Johnson was a dirty cheater too. And there are plenty of other examples of teams cheating (the dolphins did something similar to the patriots), but Spygate aside, the Patriots have been tripping over allegations of cheating for years (even before they became became kings of the NFL), and won't admit it even when the evidence is thrown in their face, other than Bellicheck's generic, "I accept full responsibility for accidentally misunderstanding the rules" bullshet, after they were caught red-handed and reprimanded by the NFL. And in the end, it doesn't matter what anyone else does, the Patriots have been the face of the NFL over the last decade, and as such they should hold themselves to higher standards.

I'm thinking Atlanta might have an upset or 2 in them. They're a good team, I'd like to seem them make a run one of these years.

[Del Murder]

Forgot to make my picks

Houston over Cincinnati (doesn't really count now)
New Orleans over Detroit
NY Giants over Atlanta
Pittsburgh destroys Denver

bonus stat prediction:
Tim Teblow - 10/30 passing for 130 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 30 rush yards

[Raistlin]

Cincinnati really fell apart after the first quarter, which was disappointing, though they wouldn't have made it past the next around anyway. New Orleans looks like they should beat the Lions, up 10 with 4 minutes left and the ball. And oh man, Drew Brees just threw it 50 yards downfield in a ballsy move. I love Drew Brees (though I did like the Lions making the playoffs for RSL's sake).

Unfortunately I will be missing the whole Falcons/Giants game as I'm driving back to my apartment, but I will get back just in time to (hopefully) see Tebow get slaughtered.

[chionos]

So neither of the games today were particularly competitive. I knew Houston would beat Cinci but I honestly thought it would be a closer game. Good experience hopefully for Cinci's babyfaces though.

Hopefully tomorrow's games will be more exciting.

Brees 33/43 466 yards 3 TDs 0 INTs

Lions need to work on that D (especially the secondary).

[Bolivar]

Giants/Falcons just ended, kinda crazy to see big blue's defense and rushing operating at the same high level as passing, they're a pretty dangerous team. When you consider how close they came to beating the Packers during the regular season, back when they weren't anywhere close to this lineup, this could potentially be a brutal game next sunday.

Obviously Steelers destroying Broncos tonight...

I'm thinking Saints to take 49ers... I want Giants to stop Packers. But Saints really destroyed Giants in the regular season... That would be an interesting NFC championship at least.

In AFC, I'm feeling Pats to beat Texans... Steelers to top Ravens this year... and Steelers, despite everything, to beat the Patriots. I think their time has passed. With Brees and Rodgers battling for best ovearll QB, Manning having a record year and what a journey to the playoffs, Stafford and Alex Smith on the come-up and of course the Tebow phenomenon, I think Tom Brady's struggling to find an identify in this league.

[The Captain]

Giants homerism looking pretty good so far.


Take care all.

[charliepanayi]

OK I know there's a long way to go in this game but did Denver change quarterbacks at the end of the first quarter without telling anyone?

[chionos]

Tebow has his moments.

Are the Steelers really going to lose this game?

[Raistlin]

The Steelers looked terrible in the first half, letting Denver throw deep way too easily in the second quarter. But they just scored, so now it's back to a one possession game.


Giants homerism looking pretty good so far.

I never said your pick was bad. :p Just that, while Eli had a good year, the praise has been a bit gratuitous. I think the defense will have more to do with whether the Giants beat the Packers, though; if they can play Rodgers tough, the Giants should be ahead.

[ljkkjlcm9]

Giants/Falcons just ended, kinda crazy to see big blue's defense and rushing operating at the same high level as passing, they're a pretty dangerous team. When you consider how close they came to beating the Packers during the regular season, back when they weren't anywhere close to this lineup, this could potentially be a brutal game next sunday.

Obviously Steelers destroying Broncos tonight...

I'm thinking Saints to take 49ers... I want Giants to stop Packers. But Saints really destroyed Giants in the regular season... That would be an interesting NFC championship at least.

In AFC, I'm feeling Pats to beat Texans... Steelers to top Ravens this year... and Steelers, despite everything, to beat the Patriots. I think their time has passed. With Brees and Rodgers battling for best ovearll QB, Manning having a record year and what a journey to the playoffs, Stafford and Alex Smith on the come-up and of course the Tebow phenomenon, I think Tom Brady's struggling to find an identify in this league.

You realize your AFC predictions are way off base. The only way the Texans will play the Pats is in the AFC championship match. Whoever wins the broncos Steelers plays the Pats next week.

If the broncos win, then every wildcard team will have lost.

THE JACKEL

[Del Murder]

I wouldn't have guessed this would be the only good game of the weekend. The first three were snoozers unless you are a fan of the home teams.

[Del Murder]

So weren't endings like this exactly what the new playoff rules were trying to avoid?

[Raistlin]

Well now I don't know who to root for in the Broncos/Patriots matchup.

EDIT: Del, yeah, it does seem a bit odd to randomly exempt TDs from the rules. I suppose the NFL overtime rules can only inch towards more fairness.

[chionos]

So weren't endings like this exactly what the new playoff rules were trying to avoid?

I think the main thing they were trying to avoid was: teams with good kickers getting a couple first downs and then kicking for the win. At that point offenses are playing for the field goal, and that's both not very fair for the defense, and not very exciting for the fans. Too often teams got into their kicker's range and didn't even try to keep going for the TD, they'd just kick.

I'll pick for you Raistlin, Broncos. I'm ready for the Patriots to just fade away.

[The Captain]

WOW, just wow. Tebow time lives on.

Round Two Revised Predictions:

(1) Pats defeat (4) Broncos - Tebow is an amazing story, but this isn't Hollywood. As bad as the Pats defense is, Brady is a better QB then Ben and he's fully healthy. I could definitely see this game being close and frankly, if the Broncos pull this out, then screw it, I'll pick them the rest of the way. Still: Pats 24-17 as Brady wins it on a march downfield with a TD to Gronk.

(2) Ravens defeat (3) Texans - I was wrong about the Texans. They looked great in beating up on the Bengals, and I expect this to be a smashmouth game with two good defenses and two great running backs. Neither QB inspires confidence, though I guess Flacco is slighty better. In the end, I still think the Ravens are slighty better offensively and that they will do enough to get to Yates. Give it to the Ravens 20-14.

(4) Giants defeat (1) Packers - I was really impressed with the Giants tonight. In all phases of the game they came through and their defense is actually looking very tough, which I would NEVER have believed a few weeks ago. However, the key to this game and for every game going forward is the running game. The best way to beat Rodgers is to keep him off the field and if the Giants can manage to keep the ball and score points against an average Packers defense, they can pull off the upset. Give me the Giants 31-28.

(3) Saints defeat (2) 49ers - Drew Brees really is amazing. I continue to be blown away by his consistency, his accuracy and the way the team seem to make plays for him when his throws are slighty off. The 49ers are a great defense, but their strength is stopping the run, which is not what the Saints want to do. I expect a lot of screens to the Saints RB's to compensate for a running game and I think in the end, the 49ers will need to score a lot of TD's, not settle for FG's, which will be their downfall. Saints 27-16.

Take care all. Maybe, just maybe, we're watching a miracle come true in Denver.

[chionos]

Must be a miracle. He threw for John316 yards.

The receivers (and D) won that game for the Broncos. Two of the biggest plays were throws that weren't very accurate but the receiver in each was either wide open because of an awesome move or made a good play on the ball and made the Steelers' secondary look pitiful in the open field. The Steelers played poorly for the most part and the Broncos had a few big plays, that's not going to continue to happen going deeper into the playoffs.

My picks are the same as Cap's except I've got the Pack beating the Giants. Yeah the Giants looked monstrous today, but to me it looked to be as much about Atlanta playing horrible as it did about the Giants playing well. I think the Giants can beat the Packers, I just don't think they will next week.

[Del Murder]

New England over Denver
Baltimore over Houston
Green Bay over New York
New Orleans over San Francisco

I think it will be another 3 boring games with the one interesting one being NY vs GB.

[charliepanayi]

New England
Houston
Green Bay
San Francisco

I can see a few surprises next weekend.

[escobert]

GO BEARS!

[Raistlin]

My predictions (hey, I was banned the last couple of days):

New Orleans over San Francisco (looking iffier now)
New England over Denver
Green Bay over New York
Baltimore over Houston

Going with all the favored teams this time. The Giants and 49ers were the only teams I would give a shot at winning. Though I did not expect the 49ers to be winning at half-time.

[chionos]

Wow, this turned out to be an awesome game.

I want to reiterate.

Wow.

[Del Murder]

This easily the best playoff game I've seen in the last few years. I'm half expecting a Brees hailmary pass for the win now.

[Raistlin]

Holy crap, what a crazy ending to a great game. I'm disappointed the Saints didn't pull it out, but they really dropped the ball defensively on that last possession. How many TDs was that in the last few minutes? Four?

If the 49ers can continue pressuring the quarterback as they did in this game, they will be tough to beat.

EDIT: Last second timeout? Oh, Harbaugh.

EDIT2: Ok, now over for real.

[Del Murder]

Without the turnovers the Saints would have had this in hand. I don't think Rogers will be doing the same thing.

[chionos]

Without the turnovers the Saints would have had this in hand. I don't think Rogers will be doing the same thing.

Agreed. I also think the 9ers will have a harder time on offense against the Packers (or the Giants if they pull a miracle).

[charliepanayi]

Brilliant game, completely nuts in those last few minutes. As for SF's chances next weekend, they will find it tough if they're up against Green Bay (and I'd tip Green Bay myself in such a matchup), but as they say, defence wins championships.

[Raistlin]

Well this game sucks. 35-7 at halftime. At least I've been able to enjoy Tebow sucking.

[Del Murder]

Finally we see the real Teblow. His 15 minutes of fame is now at 14:55. If the Steelers had done the smart thing and rested their QB in Week 17 then we would be seeing a different team playing today.

This game is so bad I'm going to Petco instead of watching the second half. Enjoy your 70-14 loss, Denver.

[Bunny]

Placing the blame solely on Tebow for this travesty of a game is just as bad as giving him all the credit for beating the Steelers. This is a total defensive meltdown for the Broncos.

[Raistlin]

Nobody here said it is all Tebow's fault. The defense and offensive line have also been terrible. But the Broncos' defense has been at a severe disadvantage considering the Patriots' starting field position averages around midfield after multiple three-and-outs, and against a defense that made Rex Grossman look good. At least I can now go back to rooting for anyone-but-the-Patriots.

Good to see you here, Bunny!

[Del Murder]

Placing the blame solely on Tebow for this travesty of a game is just as bad as giving him all the credit for beating the Steelers. This is a total defensive meltdown for the Broncos.
Well, that was the point. The Broncos defense is what got them to that point and it's what lost it for them. It was never blasted Teblow! He sucked then and he sucks now.

[charliepanayi]

Well that just confirms it, New England really are Hell's team.

And are any away teams going to win in these playoffs?!

[Raistlin]

Well, the Houston-Baltimore game was... close. That's about all that can be said about it. Two good defenses and two crappy quarterbacks made for some ugliness, and Flacco just managed to suck less. It probably helped that Jacoby Jones apparently bet his life savings on the Ravens this week and that Yates, well, is Yates.

Apparently Flacco whined recently that he wasn't getting enough credit for the Ravens' successes. He has a decent arm and, given sufficiently bad coverage, can have some really good games. But he folds under pressure and makes too many poor decisions, and I haven't seen that change any. Still, I hope like hell that he can turn it on against the Patriots.

[Del Murder]

Baltimore game was boring as expected. This next one should be explosive.

[charliepanayi]

Good game so far, New York really should be further ahead as well. Eli Manning is capable of some real horror shows, but he's also a great clutch player sometimes. Still a long way to go though.

[chionos]

Well.
This isn't really what I expected from this game.
I knew the Giants' Defense would be a factor, but I forgot how bad the Packers' D was.

[Raistlin]

Between the Giants' defense and about three dozen drops and miscues, the Packers looked terrible. They should have even had one more fumble, but apparently the booth showed the ref tape from a different play, and it was ruled down-by-contact. It was a poor showing from a high-powered offense, despite Rodgers's valiant efforts at single-handedly saving the game (66 rushing yards).

I was rooting for the Saints, but I think I now have to root for the 49ers. How many people even had them making the playoffs this year?

[chionos]

I thought they'd make the playoffs (the niners) but I didn't think they'd play as well as they did against the Saints. I grew up a Bengals fan, so I have terrible memories of 49er Super Bowls in the 80's being gut wrenching and maddeningly exciting. Stupid Joe Montana. Part of me wants to see a NY/NE rematch, because it would be soooo satisfying to watch NE lose to NY again. I would also like to see the Ravens finally get one for their D. It's really sad how badly they've suffered at the QB position. Since 2000 when they won the Super Bowl they've dealt with Elvis Grbac (terrible), Kyle Boller(injured early), Anthony Wright (mediocre QB), Kyle Boller again (major post injury decline), Steve McNair (a troubled man, and past his prime), and now Joe Flacco, who is one of those QBs that goes on streaks where you think he's improving and turning into an A-list QB, but then the bottom falls out and he doesn't have what's needed to go all the way. The Ravens have had consistently good Defense for many many years. In 2000 it was even good enough to win a Super Bowl all by itself. I'd like to see them get there again.

That said, I'll be happy with a NE loss at some point.

[charliepanayi]

Go Giants! Great performance there, hopefully they haven't used it all up in one game. I'm not sure who to predict yet between them and SF, but I think Baltimore will find it very tough against New England.

[The Captain]

All you doubters, you are welcome to jump on the bandwagon now.

Championship Game Predictions:

AFC: (2) Ravens win a tight one over the (1) Pats - The Pats have a clear edge on offense but their defense is what makes this game so tight. If they had any semblance of one, I think they could win this but Baltimore's offense will be able to put up points and their D will force just enough turnovers from Brady that I think they'll pull it out late. Final: 27-24

NFC: (4) Giants over (2) 49ers. The 49ers were mighty impressive in pulling it out over the Saints, however, I don't think Alex Smith can play the same game twice. In order to hang with the Giants he'll need to continue playing at a high level and frankly, I'll take Eli Manning over just about any QB in the playoffs in crunch time. Also, here's a fun stat: Giants are 4-0 in Championship games. Make it 5-0. Giants win 31-21

That sets up a rematch of the Giants most bitter Super Bowl losses: against the Ravens. The revenge tour continues.

Take care all.

[charliepanayi]

Baltimore's offense will put up points? Did you see them yesterday? Even against a defence like New England they'll have to pull their socks up big time next weekend.

[The Captain]

Keep in mind who they were playing yesterday. The Texans have an excellent defense and they showed it. They could have won that game if they had a more experienced QB. It's really a shame that they made it to the playoffs without Schaub this year, because with him they could have definitely had a shot. The Pats defense is AWFUL and I fully expect the Ravens to have a much easier time scoring. Ray Rice is too good of a player to be held out of the endzone again. I figure Brady will put up plenty of points as well but I think the Ravens will be just physical enough to force some turnovers and that will be the deciding factor.

As a Giants fan, I can't possibly have asked for a better matchup going forward. The one team I know we couldn't beat would have been the Saints at home and not having to play them is huge.

I have been supremely impressed with the 49ers. They are extremely well coached and won't beat themselves. However, what it comes down to for me is that I believe in Eli Manning and don't believe Alex Smith can have the same game he had last week. I could be wrong but I don't think so yet. Now... if the 49ers ever got a top notch QB, they would be SCARY good. Paging Peyton Manning perhaps?

Take care all.

[escobert]

I'm rooting for the 49ers all the way. when playoffs started they're who I wanted. I'd love to see another Harbaugh bowl :D

[Del Murder]

Some unexpected outcomes in the NFC. Well I'm on board now. No way I'm picking against the local team. 49ers to win it all!

[escobert]

Keep in mind who they were playing yesterday. The Texans have an excellent defense and they showed it. They could have won that game if they had a more experienced QB. It's really a shame that they made it to the playoffs without Schaub this year, because with him they could have definitely had a shot. The Pats defense is AWFUL and I fully expect the Ravens to have a much easier time scoring. Ray Rice is too good of a player to be held out of the endzone again. I figure Brady will put up plenty of points as well but I think the Ravens will be just physical enough to force some turnovers and that will be the deciding factor.

As a Giants fan, I can't possibly have asked for a better matchup going forward. The one team I know we couldn't beat would have been the Saints at home and not having to play them is huge.

I have been supremely impressed with the 49ers. They are extremely well coached and won't beat themselves. However, what it comes down to for me is that I believe in Eli Manning and don't believe Alex Smith can have the same game he had last week. I could be wrong but I don't think so yet. Now... if the 49ers ever got a top notch QB, they would be SCARY good. Paging Peyton Manning perhaps?

Take care all.

Smith has shown some glimpses of greatness and having 7 OCs in 7 years doesn't help any QB. He needs stability. I think he'll end up being a decent QB and last weekends game can only boost his confidence and his teams confidence in him.

[Raistlin]

I suppose I should post my predictions to continue demonstrating how wrong I am:

Baltimore over New England
New York over San Francisco

I have no idea about the Giants/9ers game, but I'm rooting for the 49ers, so the Giants pick is the consolation prize. I think the Ravens can play the Pats tough. The Pats haven't often faced such competition; their most comparable matchup was probably their regular season loss to the Steelers. A team with both a good defense and a competent, sustainable offense is a good recipe against the one-sided Patriots. Of course, Flacco and Cam Cameron could still fuck it all up like they both do on occasion, but I like the Ravens to go to the Super Bowl.

[Del Murder]

Niners
Ravens

Harbaugh Bowl! Won't be too exciting but that's how it works sometimes.

[charliepanayi]

New England and SF to win. The latter game to possibly go to OT.

[charliepanayi]

Well that first game should have gone to OT! Baltimore will be kicking themselves when they look back on this. Really tense battle anyway.

[escobert]

Goddamn Patriots :mad2:

[Agent Proto]

Yeah, the kicker blew it big time. That should have been an easy field goal to make. Still, a pretty exciting game to watch. Glad I was able to watch the last quarter at least. Especially that back to back interceptions by both teams. Still disappointing that the kicker missed the field goal at the end.

[Raistlin]

Dammit, Ravens. You always know just how to let people down in terrible ways.

Anyway, goooo 9ers!

[escobert]

Niners gotta pick it up on offense and keep Smith protected :( some on you guys can do it!

[chionos]

I expected (and wanted) the Giants to win that game, but the way it ended was totally suckish. That fumble by Williams shouldn't have ended the game, the Niners' defense played too well for that. In the end though I'm excited about a Giants/Patriots Super Bowl. I want Eli to make Brady a sad panda again.

[Del Murder]

SF really dropped the ball in this one. For a team that didn't turn the ball over much at all during the season, a couple costly special teams fumbles did them in!

[Raistlin]

SF really dropped the ball in this one.

Or kneed it, as the case may be. Fucking Kyle Williams. :mad2: I don't know how much more bone-headed you can get than letting the ball hit your knee and then just watching it roll away. I know he didn't think it touched him, but if you're that close you might as well fall on the ball instead of giving up 5-10 more yards.

Between that and Cundiff's shank, there were two awful game finishes.

[Bunny]

GOD DAMN HARBAUGHS

[The Captain]

Can't spell elite without Eli.

Funny how the last game will come down to him and the fella he was compared to, Mr. Brady.

I expect this Super Bowl to be a bit more offensive, but in the end, the Giants D is better then the Pats D and they will pressure Brady just enough to keep him honest. The Giants are playing like a team possessed right now, clicking when they need to, making the third down plays and stopping the opponents on 3rd down as well.

I see it going down to the wire with Eli leading a 2:00 minute drill to win the game after Brady has coolly given his team the lead late: Giants 31-27 in a thriller of a SB.

Take care all.

[Del Murder]

Who compares Eli Manning with Tom Brady?

[charliepanayi]

Even more reason for Baltimore to feel awful today - I saw a stat that since the AFC and NFC were created in 1970, this is only the third time (and the first since the early 80s) that a team has won a championship game after losing the turnover count by two or more. So many missed opportunities. And though the missed FG was an awful kick, Baltimore made a real hash of it all round, they rushed to take it when they didn't need to and why didn't they use the last timeout?

As for New York, Manning made some great third down conversions in that game. But those two turnovers really swung it. Anyway, go New York! Never would have seen them getting this far after that abject loss to Washington in December.

And as has been joked about online already with Baltimore's missed FG, the laces weren't out! It's Ray Finkle! :)

[escobert]

I hate the Giants and I REALLY hate the Patriots. wtf this superbowl sucks :mad2:

[edczxcvbnm]

I agree that this super bowl sucks. I would have much rather had the 9ers and Ravens in it. But as good as their defenses are they have some pretty pedestrian QBs that just can't get the job done. Flacco and Smith have both been in the league long enough and have shown exactly what they are capable of. I will agree with Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force when he said.

Joe Flacco has gone from a green eyed rookie that can't throw the long ball to a Steeley eyed veteran who still can't throw the long ball.

Both games this weekend ended in the one way I utterly despise a team winning. Because of bad special teams play. I have no problem if they block a punt/field goal...that is AWESOME special teams play. Even forcing a fumble is awesome (I don't consider that why the giants won). Missing a 32 yard field goal and letting the ball touch you on a punt and not even attempting to recover it are both massive screw ups. Once again more teams lost the game than won the game.

[charliepanayi]

This Superbowl sucks? Maybe if you hate both teams (in which case more fool you), but if it's half as exciting as the Giants v Patriots game four years ago it'll be great to watch anyway.

[Bolivar]

Who compares Eli Manning with Tom Brady?

Eli did. Before the season started the internet went crazy when on a radio show they asked him if he felt he was in Tom Brady's class and he said yes. I can understand why everyone was upset, given the 25-pick season last year, but he definitely went on to back it up, especially in these last few games. So it's kind of ironic that that's how his season started and now he's going back to the Super Bowl to play Brady, at the stadium his brother's found glory on. As a NY fan this couldn't be any bigger for me, although I did want the Ravens to get the AFC Championship and I kinda feel like they should have.

[escobert]

This Superbowl sucks? Maybe if you hate both teams (in which case more fool you), but if it's half as exciting as the Giants v Patriots game four years ago it'll be great to watch anyway.
I live in New England full of Pats and Giants fans. Either way I'm going to hear about this for the next 9 months. I hate both teams very much and don't want to se either one win a super bowl.

[Goldenboko]

Y'all can complain but living in Boston will make this matchup include one hell of a superbowl party. :monster:

[charliepanayi]

This Superbowl sucks? Maybe if you hate both teams (in which case more fool you), but if it's half as exciting as the Giants v Patriots game four years ago it'll be great to watch anyway.
I live in New England full of Pats and Giants fans. Either way I'm going to hear about this for the next 9 months. I hate both teams very much and don't want to se either one win a super bowl.

Hard luck then =P

[Bubba]

I always look forward to the Superbowl. I'm not a massive follower during the regular season (I'm more of a baseball fan) but I can't miss the biggest sporting event on the planet! Go New York!

Is it true that Madonna's playing the half-time show? What a fucking letdown.

[charliepanayi]

Still, can't be worse than the Black Eyed Peas.

[escobert]

for real

[chionos]

Still, can't be worse than the Black Eyed Peas.

amen

[Del Murder]

I think the game will be good. Really any combination of the last four teams would have been a good matchup.

[escobert]

I think it'll be a good game, I just hate seeing either team win :(

[Del Murder]

I think the Giants will pull out the upset and steal another Super Bowl from NE. They have the better defense and running game. But afterwards I better not hear how Eli is a better QB than Peyton because he has more rings. That's a really dumb way to compare individual players. He's not better than Brady either. One person does not a title make.

[Raistlin]

I agree with everything Del just said. I'm also rooting for the Giants because they are not the Patriots, and another Super Bowl upset would be oh so sweet.

[edczxcvbnm]

In all honesty, I don't know why NE is the favorite to win. I can see the NY Defense get enough pressure to force some punts but I can't envision the NE defense doing the same thing. I think Eli will get the time to rip NE apart. Am I crazy in thinking this?

[charliepanayi]

I imagine New England will start narrow favourites, but it's not like four years ago when the Giants were the huge underdogs. I'm still inclined to see either a narrow Giants win or New England going nuts and winning by a mile.

[escobert]

really the only good chance NE has on defense is Wilfork and Anderson who the Bears couldn't get anything out of his last few years there. If those two can get any pressure on Eli they may have a chance but who knows. I agree that the Giants have a MUCH better defense and running game. The pats really don't have a running game besides what they did with Hernandez and I doubt the giants are going to overlook that.

[chionos]

Wilfork's the key. If NE can stop NY's run game (which wasn't all that impressive last week) and Wilfork can hit Eli in the teeth a couple times early, NE will have an edge if only because their offense finds holes like nobody's business. Oh, and the other key to the game, has there been any word on Gronkowski's ankle? Even if he plays, if he's not 100% that's really going to hurt the pressure they can put on NY's secondary making it easier to blitz and m2m.

[escobert]

he hasn't practiced yet that I know of.

[The Captain]

This is almost exactly how the New York media will react: Eli is the new Jeter, Peyton is the new A-Rod (minus roids). Eli is clutch and a leader by example, Peyton puts up crazy regular season numbers but doesn't come through when it counts. I guarantee you will be hearing this story over and over and over again. The NY Media loves to bring everything back to the Yanks.

Now, if the Pats win, here's the question: Is Brady the best QB of all-time? 4 Super Bowl rings would match Montana and Bradshaw and he has shown he can play on a level with Peyton Manning and Brees in terms of individual numbers as well.

As I stated earlier, I think the Giants win this game though frankly, I agree, it wouldn't be an upset. The Giants ARE the more balanced team.

Take care all.

[chionos]

Is Brady the best QB of all-time? 4 Super Bowl rings would match Montana and Bradshaw and he has shown he can play on a level with Peyton Manning and Brees in terms of individual numbers as well.

Absolutely not. Not even top 5. Brady is overrated. (Not terribly overrated, he's obviously not a bad quarterback or anything) Brady benefits greatly from the offensive style of his team (both in terms of general mentality and play-calling), his offensive line, and his receivers. He's not a scrambler and is horrible out of the pocket, he's not the most accurate QB, he's not the smartest QB, so what is he? He's cocksure and poised, that's the area in which he excels the most, but if that's the sole arbiter of quality QBing then Joe Namath is the greatest ever. And Brady's not even all that poised when the D's getting good pressure on him. If he hadn't lucked out with awesome inside receiver after awesome inside receiver, there wouldn't be even a hint of a suggestion that he's the greatest. I think # of SB rings is an overinflated stat for all-time QB ranking. I don't even think Brady's the best of the modern QB's, perhaps not even in the top 3 or even in the top 5 now that I think of it. It's also growing more and more unfair to compare a modern QB with any QB of the past because of the way the NFL has taken it upon itself to coddle all the poor little pussy QBs who can't take a hit, which is duplicitous as all get out because they don't really care at all about the health of the players themselves, it's really just about not wanting to risk injuring the faces of franchises and the faces of the NFL. All about the money. So yeah, sorry about the rant, but it's simply preposterous to hear people talk about ranking Brady #1, just friggin ludicrous, I don't care if he wins 10 rings.

[Del Murder]

Brady is not the best ever. The Patriots still managed to win 11 games without him. He was a product of great coaching. The Colts managed to win all of 2 games without the real best QB ever.

[charliepanayi]

Is Brady the best QB of all-time? 4 Super Bowl rings would match Montana and Bradshaw and he has shown he can play on a level with Peyton Manning and Brees in terms of individual numbers as well.

Absolutely not. Not even top 5. Brady is overrated. (Not terribly overrated, he's obviously not a bad quarterback or anything) Brady benefits greatly from the offensive style of his team (both in terms of general mentality and play-calling), his offensive line, and his receivers. He's not a scrambler and is horrible out of the pocket, he's not the most accurate QB, he's not the smartest QB, so what is he? He's cocksure and poised, that's the area in which he excels the most, but if that's the sole arbiter of quality QBing then Joe Namath is the greatest ever. And Brady's not even all that poised when the D's getting good pressure on him. If he hadn't lucked out with awesome inside receiver after awesome inside receiver, there wouldn't be even a hint of a suggestion that he's the greatest. I think # of SB rings is an overinflated stat for all-time QB ranking. I don't even think Brady's the best of the modern QB's, perhaps not even in the top 3 or even in the top 5 now that I think of it. It's also growing more and more unfair to compare a modern QB with any QB of the past because of the way the NFL has taken it upon itself to coddle all the poor little pussy QBs who can't take a hit, which is duplicitous as all get out because they don't really care at all about the health of the players themselves, it's really just about not wanting to risk injuring the faces of franchises and the faces of the NFL. All about the money. So yeah, sorry about the rant, but it's simply preposterous to hear people talk about ranking Brady #1, just friggin ludicrous, I don't care if he wins 10 rings.

I think your rant is more to do with your hatred for the Patriots than anything else. Anyway there is no 'best quarterback ever', it's ridiculous to try and pick one person.

[The Captain]

Fans try to determine where players fit on a greatest ever scale to try and give context to sports. People love lists, they love to debate what era is better, but frankly, if you are in the discussion, that's all that matters.

Here's the thing: Best QB doesn't mean best PLAYER. I am in no way saying Brady is the best PLAYER ever or even in the Top 5. However, what a QB is supposed to do: Make throws, score points, hang in the pocket, lead and most importantly win, it is pretty clear he IS in that discussion. Who exactly is ahead of him? Nearly every other QB has flaws as well. Montana is about untouchable since he was the focal point for every Super Bowl, but Bradshaw, despite being 4-0 in the Super Bowl won some of the games due to his defense. Peyton is probably the best regular season QB of all time but has been inconsistent in the playoffs and in fact has a losing postseason record all-time. Brees and Rodgers still have a lot of career left. The older QB's, Unitas, Starr, etc, etc deserve mention but they played a different brand of football. I would argue they were better PLAYERS but notbetter QB's.

To underscore, I think Brady is a Top 5 QB, not a top 5 Player of all time. I'd say Jim Brown was the best player of all time, followed by in some order Walter Payton, LT, Jerry Rice and Montana.

Take care all and go Giants.

[Del Murder]

Yeah, Montana is the best QB ever. He's really untouchable.

As for best player ever my top choices would be Jerry Rice or Barry Sanders. Sanders was pretty amazing.

Jim Brown is also pretty good, but Barry Sanders did pretty much what Brown did but in a 16-game season.

[Sephex]

I am rooting for the Giants half-heatedly and for my company square pool to net me some money. So I guess I am rooting for who gives me money!

All joking aside, I do think the Giants have this one for many reasons that have already been stated.

[Bunny]

It's also growing more and more unfair to compare a modern QB with any QB of the past because of the way the NFL has taken it upon itself to coddle all the poor little pussy QBs who can't take a hit, which is duplicitous as all get out because they don't really care at all about the health of the players themselves, it's really just about not wanting to risk injuring the faces of franchises and the faces of the NFL. All about the money.

This is largely bullshit. The NFL, like anything, evolves over time. As medical research is done, the game will evolve to best reflect said research. If we are going to say that it is unfair to compare Drew Brees' achievements to that of Dan Marino, then we should also make a caveat to say that it is unfair to compare Dan Marion, or any relatively modern player, to any of the first great football players who played the game without pads and a single leather helmet. The game evolves and the rules evolve with it. Get over it.

The last half of that specific paragraph makes no sense. Does the NFL care about money? Yes. The NFL is, first and foremost, a business. Without money, the sport would die. However, without big names like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Bress, etc. fans would lose interest and the money would wither and die out. Big name players like Brady and Manning, who "can't take a hit" are one of the key reasons that the game is as lucrative as it is these days. So yes, the NFL cares about money, but it also cares about big name players because they are the gateway into making money.

Both of these 'arguments' irk me every time I hear someone utter them without actually know what they are talking about.

As for Brady being the best QB ever? No. Not by a longshot. He's certainly up there with some of the greats, but he isn't leading the pack by any means. Saying the Brady is a horrible QB or that he is overrated is, well, dumb.

[Raistlin]

Peyton is probably the best regular season QB of all time but has been inconsistent in the playoffs and in fact has a losing postseason record all-time.

I think that is an unfair assessment without some context. I am not huge Peyton fan, but the teams he has had around him have not exactly been stellar. He's had some great skill position talent (Harrison, Wayne, Edge), but the rest of the team, especially the defense, has generally been lacking -- with the exception of a couple of DLs who could really rush the QB. I would still say that Peyton has the most pure skill of any current QB (though he may not remain in the "current" category much longer), and is very arguably one of the best ever.

It's about impossible to arrive at any consensus for "best QB" because there's no consensus as to what "best" means. Pure skill? Stats? Late game clutchness? Record? Most people use some combination of those factors (among others), but give them wildly varying degrees of weight (A lot of people emphasize Super Bowl wins, which is retarded).

I agree with Del and Cap'n that Montana is the best QB ever, probably regardless of definition. Brady isn't close. As for best player all time, comparing positions is tough, but Jerry Rice is definitely up there.

[chionos]

First of all, yeah I hate the Patriots, but it's a fun hatred, and it's not to the point that I can't objectively appreciate talent when I see it. They've had some of the best play callers and coordinators of all time. And their defense, though it's never been entirely elite, has really stepped it up at key moments several times. So, yeah, my evaluation of Brady isn't blind, it comes from a shitton of watching football over the course of nearly 30 years.



This is largely bulltit. The NFL, like anything, evolves over time. As medical research is done, the game will evolve to best reflect said research. If we are going to say that it is unfair to compare Drew Brees' achievements to that of Dan Marino, then we should also make a caveat to say that it is unfair to compare Dan Marion, or any relatively modern player, to any of the first great football players who played the game without pads and a single leather helmet. The game evolves and the rules evolve with it. Get over it.

It's not fair to compare any relatively modern QB to those early guys. I'm not sure what there is to get over. Your position that the game changes over time is exactly my point. Is it sensible to compare the intelligences of humans and monkeys, or the hunting ability of a poodle vs a wolf? The game evolved, and with it also the definition of quality QBing. Many modern QBs would have been terrible 30-40 years ago and many of the star QBs of that era wouldn't be as good on a modern team. Or actually, it's more accurate to say that we have no idea how they would actually be flip-flopped because of those differences. In other words, there's no sense in comparing them.



The last half of that specific paragraph makes no sense. Does the NFL care about money? Yes. The NFL is, first and foremost, a business. Without money, the sport would die. However, without big names like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Bress, etc. fans would lose interest and the money would wither and die out. Big name players like Brady and Manning, who "can't take a hit" are one of the key reasons that the game is as lucrative as it is these days. So yes, the NFL cares about money, but it also cares about big name players because they are the gateway into making money.

I'm not sure why you're getting irked at me for saying something and then proving my point for me. The point isn't about whether or not the NFL would be validated in protecting its marketable icons because of money. The problem is they don't admit that's the reason and instead make it about the players' health, as if they're doing it for altruistic humanitarian reasons. That's called duplicitous and it's not something I value.

So there's a lot of talk about Brady being the best ever, basically #1.

As for Brady being the best QB ever? No. Not by a longshot. (emphasis mine)
So, I read: "not #1, not even close" Sounds to me like that means he's overrated.


Saying the Brady is a horrible QB or that he is overrated is, well, dumb.
...
So anyway, I don't think anyone ever has tried to make the claim that Brady's a horrible QB. He's a good QB who looks a lot better than he actually is because of coaching and other factors.

I'm definitely on board the Montana express. I grew up a Bengals fan (they were good in the 80's I swear). I had undying fanatical faith in my team. Nothing short of a football god could have stopped them, and that's exactly what it took. What a game that was.

Brees has the potential to make it really high on the list. When he's in overdrive there's nobody better, he's just superhuman sometimes. I don't know how SF won that game a few weeks ago. It was astonishing. But damn it was a good game, so who cares.

[The Captain]

Is Brees better then Brady? I love him but I'm not sure he's better, yet.

As for the Brady versus Peyton debate: I think it's a bit of a wash in the the sense that Manning has usually had a FAR superior offense when compared to Brady's and likewise, Brady's defense has been more consistent then Manning's.

What's interesting is that football is one of the few sports where individual positions have wildly different stats. In baseball, the consensus best player ever is most likely Babe Ruth and you can judge almost all offensive stats against him and any offensive player. In hockey, it's Gretzky and likewise, you can judge him against almost every offensive player. Same with basketball and Jordan. But, how do you compare the value of a QB to a running back or a linebacker?

I still think Jim Brown was the best player ever since he transformed the sport and dominated it to the extent that he walked away with a lot left in the tank to become a movie star (or try to be). However, how do you judge him against say LT, Rice or Montana?

Take care all.

[Bubba]

Come on Giants. Smurf them up!!

[charliepanayi]

One simple thought at half-time - curse you Brady!

[Del Murder]

Not an exciting game so far.

[Agent Proto]

These games usually get better in the second half anyway. :p

[Bubba]

Brady is on it. It'll take something special for the Giants to take this.

[Raistlin]

An exciting end to the game, which resulted in another delicious Patriots loss. I await the deluge of Boston sports writers comparing Manningham's great sideline grab to Tyree's helmet catch... and then compare that to something bad that happened to the Red Sox.

[The Captain]

It's not homerism when your team WINS.


Great job Giants!!!!


Take care all.

[Del Murder]

Congrats Captain, according to the owner of the Giants while accepting the Lombardi trophy you are the best sports fan on the planet and all this was done especially for you, by you, and through you.

Also, was it just me or was the crowd very pro-Giants?

[The Captain]

Tony, Tony, Tony, still bitter about baseball are we? You will have your moment in the sun again, just not in football. Not if you continue to be a Raiders fan at least.

I'm just glad Ann Mara didn't scold me like she did Terry Bradshaw.

OF COURSE it was pro-Giants. You expected the Colts fans who came to the game to root for the Pats?

Even if 2012 ends up being the end of the world, it started pretty darn well.

Take care all.

[charliepanayi]

If Brady had made that Hail Mary at the end, I would have probably chucked something through my TV screen. But another great fourth quarter from Manning and the Giants. Never would have seen this coming in mid-December.

[edczxcvbnm]

Ah! Another awesome lose for the Patriots. Being a Packer fan I drew a parallel with what Belicheck did at the end of the game to what Mike Holmgren did at the end of Super Bowl XXXII. The Packers let the Broncos score and then Favre attempted to take them down the field and failed...just like the Pats. Only this time it was awesome because I dislike Tom Brady greatly.

And we actually had a decent halftime show for once =D

[escobert]

Yeah, Montana is the best QB ever. He's really untouchable.

As for best player ever my top choices would be Jerry Rice or Barry Sanders. Sanders was pretty amazing.

Jim Brown is also pretty good, but Barry Sanders did pretty much what Brown did but in a 16-game season.
montana is the best Qb ever no doubt, but it's either Brown or Payton who were the best ever and Peyton was the best complete football player ever. he could run, throw, catch and block. Watch his highlights, he's not trowing 5 yard passes like LT he's throwing 30-40 yard bombs for TD's. He ran over everybody. one clip there's more than enough room for him to run and get into the endzone without touching anybody instead he runs right for 2 defenders and hits them to score. he was the best ever.

And look at Sanders stats for turf vs grass. He was horrid outside of domes. Also, he only scored one touchdown in the playoffs. yes I know he played for horrible teams but so did peyton. the bears were complete crap when they drafter him in the 70's and they were never good until 84.