Failed Consoles

[Pike]

Let's talk about consoles that ended up failing for one reason or another. Like Virtual Boy. Did any of you guys ever have one of those? I remember (long, long ago) seeing one at Wal-Mart for like $30 when they were clearancing them out. Not buying it is something I still regret sometimes. It'd be a great novelty to add to my collection.

[Shiny]

Sony PSX...did anyone actually buy this crap?

[Old Manus]

I've never met anybody who has or had a Gamecube. Just saying. I don't even know anyone who knows anyone with a Gamecube. I know it was apparently popular and all, but my anecdotal evidence which counts as pure science (tm) therefore decrees it as a failure.

[Hollycat]

I sincerely hope the previous two posts were merely jests, especially the one regarding the PSX. I owned both of those systems, and still think they are adequate for today's market, especially the gamecube considering the lack of growth in the Wii.

I have a dreamcast sitting in a box somewhere that I've never even used. Sega really messed up the release, I still wonder what possessed them to release the console months ahead of schedule.

[edczxcvbnm]

Sony actually released an $800 console called the PSX. That is not a joke. You probably owned the original playstation which everyone refers to as the PSX but that really isn't the name of the console.

Sega Saturn. It was over priced and half assed. I recall something about Sega hap hazzardly adding a 3D processor to the console last minute because they didn't realize that was the direction the market was moving. I don't know how they couldn't have realized this with games like Star Fox selling pretty much because of 3D...or Donkey Kong Country and stuff where 3D was used to help make the sprites.

[Shiny]

I actually own a Sega Saturn and what with PS1 being out around the same time and all, I realize it's complete pointlessness. Also, was gonna mention Dreamcast although I think some would disagree. At least that time I knew Dreamcast was a pointless buy and wasn't going to buy into it again despite being an avid Sonic fan. It just seemed like a pointless waste money just for the Sonic Adventure series.

[Hollycat]

Sony actually released an $800 console called the PSX. That is not a joke. You probably owned the original playstation which everyone refers to as the PSX but that really isn't the name of the console.

Sega Saturn. It was over priced and half assed. I recall something about Sega hap hazzardly adding a 3D processor to the console last minute because they didn't realize that was the direction the market was moving. I don't know how they couldn't have realized this with games like Star Fox selling pretty much because of 3D...or Donkey Kong Country and stuff where 3D was used to help make the sprites.

I had no idea that this even existed. It is too bad that they priced it so high, it had potential, especially with its ability to link up to the psp, which wasn't even released at the time. I suppose they it went the way of the N64 DD.

[Mirage]

Playstation 3.

[DMKA]

Playstation 3.

Damn, it took 8 post for that? I admire your restraint EoFF. :p

I remember being a kid and seeing ads for the Atari Jaguar in GamePro back when it was new and I wanted one so badly as a kid. I also wanted a Panasonic 3DO after playing Samurai Showdown at a local gamestore. I was way into fighting games as a kid and I loved that game, and I had it on SNES, but the 3DO version was like...a perfect replica of the arcade version. The SNES version just couldn't compare.

Looking back, both those consoles were terrible beyond belief. Thank god we were poor so I never even bothered to ask my family to waste money on those things.

Does anyone remember the Sega Nomad? It was a handheld that could play the Genesis cartridges. I thought that was awesome. I wanted one of those too, until my friend Nathan got one and showed me how the batteries died after 30 minutes...and no, I'm not exaggerating. A brand new set of batteries only got you 30 minutes of play on that thing. I decided my Gameboy was just fine after all.

[krissy]

THE DREAMCAST DIDN'T FAIL



WE FAILED THE DREAMCAST

:cry:

[NeoCracker]

No I'm pretty sure it was the Dreamcast in this case.

[Sephex]

People already listed ones that I would have named.

Concerning the Virtual Boy, however, I never got any from headaches from playing it. I never owned it, but a friend of mine let me borrow it for a long time. So when people talk about that console and scream about headaches it kind of bugs me because that console had far bigger issues.

[DMKA]

Japan actually kept making Dreamcast games up until 2007. Seeing as the last Dreamcast game released outside Japan came out in 2001, I find that fascinating.

I also owned a Sega Saturn. I remember not being able to find games for it anywhere, and the majority of games we had for it sucked. Virtual-On: Operation Moongate, Dragon Force and Albert Odyssey: Legend of Eldean were all pretty fun though.

[Hollycat]

I found one that hasn't failed yet, but is going to,
Sony Playstation 4 Will Be Named Orbis | ITProPortal.com (http://www.itproportal.com/2012/03/28/sony-playstation-4-will-be-named-orbis/)

How dare they make it where we can't buy used games nor play our games at our friends house.

[DMKA]

I found one that hasn't failed yet, but is going to,
Sony Playstation 4 Will Be Named Orbis | ITProPortal.com (http://www.itproportal.com/2012/03/28/sony-playstation-4-will-be-named-orbis/)

How dare they make it where we can't buy used games nor play our games at our friends house.


A rumor has appeared...

Oh look, it's like I'm really back in 2005, when some troll started the same rumor about the PS3!

PlayStation 3 won't play used games? | Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/08/playstation-3-wont-play-used-games/)

Oooh and look, they're spreading the same rumor about the Xbox 720 now!

Xbox 720 Won't Play Used Games; Wii U Better Than X360 (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Wii-U-Xbox-720-Oban-Radeon-Performance,news-13994.html)

LOL INTERNET!

[Hollycat]

Whoa, really, I never saw that considering I was twelve at the time. I hope it is just a rumor, but you never know. My real fear is the huge price tag they are going to put on it. I'm expecting the same as the original PS3 or even higher.

Edit:
Back on topic...
What was that handheld that came out before 2000 that had a backlit screen, I can't remember the name.

[DMKA]

Whoa, really, I never saw that considering I was twelve at the time. I hope it is just a rumor, but you never know. My real fear is the huge price tag they are going to put on it. I'm expecting the same as the original PS3 or even higher.

Edit:
Back on topic...
What was that handheld that came out before 2000 that had a backlit screen, I can't remember the name.

Game Gear? It had a backlight.

http://www.zippygamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/game-gear.jpg

Bear in mind, said backlight killed the six AA batteries it took pretty fast.

[Hollycat]

Holy cow, it took six batteries? Geeze. I don't think that is the one I was thinking of, but it may very well be. I'm going to guess it was a bigger pain than it was worth?

[Araciel]

lol@ 720

[Phoenix Rising]

I've never met anybody who has or had a Gamecube. Just saying. I don't even know anyone who knows anyone with a Gamecube. I know it was apparently popular and all, but my anecdotal evidence which counts as pure science (tm) therefore decrees it as a failure.

How could you not know anyone who owns or owned a GameCube? Everyone where I live owns one. It's definitely one of the best systems ever, right up there with Dreamcast.

[edczxcvbnm]

I can't believe no one mentioned the following. I didn't mention them earlier to give others a chance to chime in but now...

3DO
Atari Jaguar
Atari Lynx
WonderSwan
WonderSwan Color
32x(technically an addon but it failed hard and led to even more sega mistrust)
CD-i

All of these died quick horrible deaths. The CD-i did have Zelda though >.>

[Bubba]

The CD-i did have Zelda though

This did not happen. EVER.

As much as I love it, unless Sony can pull their finger out and give me access to PSOne Classics then I'm going to say Playstation Vita.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Playstation 3.

Damn, it took 8 post for that? I admire your restraint EoFF. :p

I remember being a kid and seeing ads for the Atari Jaguar in GamePro back when it was new and I wanted one so badly as a kid. I also wanted a Panasonic 3DO after playing Samurai Showdown at a local gamestore. I was way into fighting games as a kid and I loved that game, and I had it on SNES, but the 3DO version was like...a perfect replica of the arcade version. The SNES version just couldn't compare.

Looking back, both those consoles were terrible beyond belief. Thank god we were poor so I never even bothered to ask my family to waste money on those things.

Does anyone remember the Sega Nomad? It was a handheld that could play the Genesis cartridges. I thought that was awesome. I wanted one of those too, until my friend Nathan got one and showed me how the batteries died after 30 minutes...and no, I'm not exaggerating. A brand new set of batteries only got you 30 minutes of play on that thing. I decided my Gameboy was just fine after all.


I can't believe no one mentioned the following. I didn't mention them earlier to give others a chance to chime in but now...

3DO
Atari Jaguar
Atari Lynx
WonderSwan
WonderSwan Color
32x(technically an addon but it failed hard and led to even more sega mistrust)
CD-i

All of these died quick horrible deaths. The CD-i did have Zelda though >.>


......>__>

There's also the Nokia N-Gage and the Apple Pippin. :jess:

[Mirage]

The next xbox not supporting used games is actually not a completely unfounded rumour. A MS employee's been going around saying he thinks it would be a good idea. Of course, that doesn't mean it's confirmed, just that it's not a rumour taken out of thin air.

[Slothy]

Honestly, with the number of developers and publishers who've spoken out against used games I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft and Sony make an end run at stopping used sales. It'd have to be both of them though because if only one did it they'd have to abandon their plans when they realized it totally backfired.

Honestly, people railing against used games and saying they or the industry would benefit if they were gone haven't thought things through that thoroughly, or are trying to find a scapegoat for bad sales or play the victim for sympathy while they make obscene amounts of money.

Anyway, the Dreamcast will always be the best dead console. Of all of the consoles of its generation, it deserved to succeed more than the Gamecube or Xbox I think. Only problem was that Sega couldn't float the cash to keep it going despite their own idiocy. Something Nintendo has never really had a problem managing.

[DMKA]

I've never met anybody who has or had a Gamecube. Just saying. I don't even know anyone who knows anyone with a Gamecube. I know it was apparently popular and all, but my anecdotal evidence which counts as pure science (tm) therefore decrees it as a failure.

How could you not know anyone who owns or owned a GameCube? Everyone where I live owns one. It's definitely one of the best systems ever, right up there with Dreamcast.

Aside of me and my friend Tim, I didn't know anyone else (offline) who owned a GameCube either. A lot of people had PS2 though, but even more people had an Xbox.

Where I lived at that time, everyone cared about HALO and nothing else. Man, they must all be in heaven now.

[Old Manus]

How could you not know anyone who owns or owned a GameCube? Everyone where I live owns one. It's definitely one of the best systems ever, right up there with Dreamcast.Good one

[Slothy]

How could you not know anyone who owns or owned a GameCube? Everyone where I live owns one. It's definitely one of the best systems ever, right up there with Dreamcast.Good one

You're right. The Gamecube had absolutely nothing on the Dreamcast.

[NeoCracker]

Except the gamecube got the port of Skies of Arcadia, pretty much making the dreamcast redundant anyway.

[krissy]

well he's right

JET SET RADIO GAME PLAY - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbf1v2Ctv4)

Shenmue Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US-lyfBSK9I)

Crazy Taxi (Sega Dreamcast) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhsE6qdQr1g)

Sonic Adventure Emerald Coast (Dreamcast) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnNTj0zwMFU)

Skies of Arcadia Intro (Dreamcast) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fl3ZwERMgE)

Ikaruga Chapter 1 - Ideal (Hard Mode) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LES0bAg0dBk)

[Slothy]

well he's right

JET SET RADIO GAME PLAY - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbf1v2Ctv4)

Shenmue Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US-lyfBSK9I)

Crazy Taxi (Sega Dreamcast) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhsE6qdQr1g)

Sonic Adventure Emerald Coast (Dreamcast) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnNTj0zwMFU)

Skies of Arcadia Intro (Dreamcast) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fl3ZwERMgE)

Ikaruga Chapter 1 - Ideal (Hard Mode) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LES0bAg0dBk)

You forgot Soul Calibur, Power Stone 1&2, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, and RE: Code Veronica (or at least it got those last two well before other consoles). I'm probably forgetting more too.

[NeoCracker]

Didn't all those pretty much end up on other systems?

And Gamecube had Zelda: Windwaker and Ocarina of Time: Master Quest.

And the second Smash Brothers.

Both Baiten Kaitos games.

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door.

I believe Viewtiful Joe was an exclusive as well, but I might be wrong on that.

And you could get Megaman X Command Mission on gamecube, but that was also on PS2 so I'm not sure if it counts.

And Pikmin if you're into those games, but I wasn't so much. :p

[Slothy]

Didn't all those pretty much end up on other systems?

And Gamecube had Zelda: Windwaker and Ocarina of Time: Master Quest.

And the second Smash Brothers.

...

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door.

You know, people will call me crazy, but I didn't care for pretty much any Nintendo made game on the Gamecube. They were like pale imitations of their N64 predecessors. Except Smash Bros. anyway. Melee was better, but I don't like the series honestly.


I believe Viewtiful Joe was an exclusive as well, but I might be wrong on that.

They were ported to the PS2.

Of the Dreamcast games Krissy and I mentioned, the only ones ported to other systems were Sonic Adventure, Skies of Arcadia, Ikaruga, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, and RE: Code Veronica. If I'm not mistaken the others were never ported, but sequels did make their way to other consoles.

Also, the Dreamcast had Seaman. You can't beat that on name alone.

[NeoCracker]

And I always found Marvel Vs. Capcom to be over rated. :p

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I have both a Dreamcast and a Gamecube. I have my Gamecube plugged up and ready to go, but my Dreamcast sits in storage.

Just my opinion. :kakapo:

[Sephex]

I have both a Dreamcast and a Gamecube. I have my Gamecube plugged up and ready to go, but my Dreamcast sits in storage.

Just my opinion. :kakapo:

But nobody owns more than one console! You're supposed to just choose one and follow it blindly like a cult! Stop it! Your kind is ruining video games! :(

[Hollycat]

I have both a Dreamcast and a Gamecube. I have my Gamecube plugged up and ready to go, but my Dreamcast sits in storage.

Just my opinion. :kakapo:

But nobody owns more than one console! You're supposed to just choose one and follow it blindly like a cult! Stop it! Your kind is ruining video games! :(

Does that make me satan then??
I have:
gameboy color
gameboy advance
gameboy sp
ds
gamecube
wii
-my parents bought all of those.

ps2
ps3
vita
-I bought those

pong.
-not sure who bought that.

[Sephex]

PONG?! Go to hell, heathen!

[GhandiOwnsYou]

I get sad when I think about failed consoles, because I genuinely liked several of them. Game Gear was heads and shoulders above what Nintendo was doing back in the day, and Dreamcast was ballin. If they had timed the release better I bet that system could have done pretty well in that generation, possibly have even taken the piss out of the x-box. I was irate when the 360 was kicking ass and taking names earlier this generation because of the blatant BS that microsoft kept pulling with proprietary gear. Want a new hard drive? Take this 3x as expensive, repackaged SATA drive with a little proprietary dongle on it! Why would you want to use any old Wifi adapter when you could buy one that says Xbox on it for twice as much!? Then all the RROD mess... I didn't buy a 360 til I got one used from a buddy for like $50. Still play every once in a while for exclusives, and MS seem to have cleaned up a lot of my previous complaints with the newer version.

As far as the PS3 being a "failed console" this generation though...
Wii – 94.97 million as of 31 December 2011
PlayStation 3 – 62 million as of 2 November 2011
Xbox 360 – 65.8 million as of 12 January 2012

I'd even go so far as to put the 360 and PS3 on fairly even footing as of now. I know a lot of people who chunked their old 360 when the new ones came out for either the RROD issues, WiFi or bigger harddrives which would drive 360 sales up a bit. At least around here, I haven't seen anyone do the same for the PS3 slim. It's cheaper to just snag a laptop hard drive off NewEgg and swap it.

[Mirage]

The key point is that the PS3 cost Sony every single dollar they ever made from PS1 and PS2 and all their game sales. MS is of course also losing money on their xbox stuff, but MS is showing a slight positive trend, while Sony is showing a very strong negative trend. Furthermore, MS still has tons of money to pump into their next gen console, while Sony has been losing money in total for their entire corporation for the last several years.

[NeoCracker]

All of the Sony loss seems to be from everything other then the PS3 though.

If you look at companies, then yes, Sony is at a loss.

If you look just at the console, and revenue they made off games and accessories, the PS3 is actually a success.

[Peegee]

All I can say is that I used to be a contract employee (to pull telecommunications crap) for panasonic for many years/months/I forget (we had a lot of work there) and the manager there once mentioned the Panasonic 3DO - you remember that crap? 600$ console in a time period when that was unheard of and the games sucked. I was pretty young then but I remember the system wasn't THAT bad - just incredibly unaffordable for what you got out of it. IIRC the product bombed and Panasonic went back to making tvs or whatever it does (actually I don't even know what that place was - maybe a warehouse for other panasonic products)

In terms of consoles I owned - I do have the game cube (it's at home somewhere), and played with the virtual boy when it came out (in toys r us)

the virtual boy is such a failure that Intendo will not acknowledge it in its list of products. You might not remember but once upon a time there was a very well produced 'Nintendo products' demo leading to a new, fake product. What tipped people off was Intendo mentioned the Virtual Boy in its list of previous products leading up to the 'fake' new console.

I'll try to find the video when I go home.

[Phoenix Rising]

Didn't all those pretty much end up on other systems?

And Gamecube had Zelda: Windwaker and Ocarina of Time: Master Quest.

And the second Smash Brothers.

Both Baiten Kaitos games.

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door.

I believe Viewtiful Joe was an exclusive as well, but I might be wrong on that.

And you could get Megaman X Command Mission on gamecube, but that was also on PS2 so I'm not sure if it counts.

And Pikmin if you're into those games, but I wasn't so much. :p

No love for the Metroid Primes? Or RE0, REmake, RE4? Or MGS Twin Snakes?

[Mirage]

All of the Sony loss seems to be from everything other then the PS3 though.

If you look at companies, then yes, Sony is at a loss.

If you look just at the console, and revenue they made off games and accessories, the PS3 is actually a success.

No. Sony's gaming division has lost as much money as it earned by PS1 and PS2 combined, because they spent so much money keeping the PS3 alive. They haven't earned a single dollar on the PS3. The PS3 has made them lose everything they earned from everything game related before the PS3 launch.

If you add together PS3 development costs, production costs, console sales, console accessory sales, and royalties from all games sold, you get a negative value that is as big as the amount of money they made from everything related to PS1 and PS2.

And that's why i jokingly called PS3 a failed console. It's also the only current gen console I have :).

http://i55.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/95wwi1.png

Here's a graph for it, btw :>. It was attached to an article that was well sourced, but I can't be assed to link to it, you'll just have to take my word for it. After all, why would I spread terrible lies about the only console I have?

[DMKA]

That makes no sense though...why do that?

[Hollycat]

Looks like xbox is much worse off, Sony will bounce.

[NeoCracker]

All of the Sony loss seems to be from everything other then the PS3 though.

If you look at companies, then yes, Sony is at a loss.

If you look just at the console, and revenue they made off games and accessories, the PS3 is actually a success.

No. Sony's gaming division has lost as much money as it earned by PS1 and PS2 combined, because they spent so much money keeping the PS3 alive. They haven't earned a single dollar on the PS3. The PS3 has made them lose everything they earned from everything game related before the PS3 launch.

If you add together PS3 development costs, production costs, console sales, console accessory sales, and royalties from all games sold, you get a negative value that is as big as the amount of money they made from everything related to PS1 and PS2.

And that's why i jokingly called PS3 a failed console. It's also the only current gen console I have :).

http://i55.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/95wwi1.png

Here's a graph for it, btw :>. It was attached to an article that was well sourced, but I can't be assed to link to it, you'll just have to take my word for it. After all, why would I spread terrible lies about the only console I have?

Perhaps I'm just mistaking game developers making more money off their PS3 sales then.

But when searching I couldn't find anything about sony losing money on the PS3, only massive losses in other areas and losses caused by the earthquake.

[Mirage]

Looks like xbox is much worse off, Sony will bounce.
No, the graph shows that the xbox is much better off. The graph clearly shows an big investment that's earning them more and more money (their total losses are becoming smaller), while for Sony it shows a big investment where their losses are becoming bigger and bigger.

As for the game developers themselves, yes, they will earn ok money on PS3 games. I doubt Sony's slice of the game-sales cake is much different from MS', and their games retail for roughly the same amount of money, and they have roughly the same amount of market penetration.

The real problem is that MS is still sitting on a crapload of money for the development of the next xbox, and Sony might not be able to keep up with them. MS could probably crush Sony entirely if they flexed their financial muscles to the max, because there is absolutely no way Sony economy could keep up if they decided to subsidize the next xbox even more than they did to the 360.

Even at 600 dollars, Sony was losing money per PS3 unit for a long time. When production costs lowered and they set the price down to 400, they still lost money per unit. At the same time, MS was keeping their units significantly below the costs of the PS3. If it wasn't for the strong brand name of "Playstation", sales would have been ridicuously low. Now imagine the next generation, when the Xbox brand name is at least as strong as Playstation, perhaps even stronger, the games look undenyably better, the hardware is technically superior, and MS can still afford to sell their Xb720s for 30% less than the PS4. On top of that, expect that MS will be able to buy significantly more console exclusives, and that Japanese developers don't give a damn about being patriotic with the Playstation anymore. All that smells like disaster for Sony to me.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Looks like xbox is much worse off, Sony will bounce.

You can't see that Sony is trending downwards and Microsoft is trending upwards? :confused:

[Hollycat]

I can see, but fact is, MS is still negative. Also I have faith in sony.

[Mirage]

The fact that MS is negative doesn't mean anything. That's generally how investments work. That you have faith in Sony doesn't change the facts about how Sony is doing terrible and MS is doing good.

[jenovajunkie]

B-rad (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005085/): You got a, uh, Playstation 2?
Tec (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1349040/): Nah, I got GameCast.
B-rad (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005085/): GameCast? Well, there's GameCube and then there's Dreamcast. Which you got?
Tec (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1349040/): Well, I said I got Gamecast, man. Damn! I can't afford it!

Damn... I gots to get me one of those...

[black orb]

Game Boy
Basic Colors

Off-White(1989)

Play It Loud Series 1995

Deep Black (1995)
Gorgeous Green (1995)
Radiant Red (1995)
Vibrant Yellow (1995)
High Tech Transparent (1995)
White (1995)
Blue (1995)
Special Edition Variants

Manchester United - red w/ logo

Kirby pink

white with Toyota logo

black with Wario logo
Game Boy Pocket
Basic Colors

Silver (1996)
Black (1996)
Green (1996)
Blue (1996)
Red (1996)
Yellow (1996)
Clear (1996)
Pink (1996 JP)
Clear Purple (1996 JP)

Limited Edition Colors

Ice Blue (1997)(Some boxes were packed with Zelda)
Extreme Green (1997)
Emerald Green (1998) (Toys R Us JP)
Clear(Ice) blue (1996 Toys R Us JP)
Silver w/ grey border (US, 1996)
Silver w/ black border (US, 1997)
Gold (Packaged w/Donkey Kong Land)(EU)
Leaf Green(Donkey Kong Edition)
Blue/Yellow (1997) blue front/yellow back. 'Swedish Limited Edition' with certificate, 3000ex made
Grey (original style)

Special Edition Variants

Nintendo power anniversary - gold w/ logo (1997)
Famitsu Limited Edition - Clear (1996)
ANA - clear blue w/ logo (Japan, 1997)
Atlus - white w/ light blue border (Japan, 1997)
Seibu Lions - blue w/ logo (Japan, 1997)
Hello Kitty/Uranai Party - pink w/ artwork (Japan, 1997)
Hello Kitty - light pink w/ artwork (Japan, 1997)
Tamagotchi - pink (Japan, 1997)
Toyota[citation needed]

Game Boy Light
Basic Colors

Gold (Japan, 1998)
Silver (Japan, 1998)
Limited Edition Colors

Toys 'R' Us - Clear Yellow (Japan, 1998)

Special Edition Variants

Astro Boy - clear w/ artwork (Japan, 1998)
Osamu Tezuka - red w/ artwork (Japan, 1998)
Famitsu F02 Event Version - clear blue w/ white border (Japan, 1998)
Famitsu F02 Mail Order Version - clear blue w/ white border (Japan, 1998)
Pokémon Center Tokyo - yellow w/ logo & artwork (Japan, 1998)

Game Boy Color
Basic Colors

Grape (1998)
Teal (1998)
Kiwi (1998)
Berry (1998)
Dandelion (1998)
Atomic Purple (1998)
Neotones Ice (AU 1998)
Fuchsia (unknown)

Limited Edition Colors

Clear Black (2000, Japan)
Clear Green (Toys 'R' Us, Japan, 2000)
Midnight Blue (Toys 'R' Us, Japan, 1999)
Ice Blue (Toys 'R' Us, Japan)
Clear Orange (Daiei, Japan, 1999)
Clear Blue (ANA)

Special Edition Variants

Mirinda - clear orange w/ logo
Yedigun - clear orange w/ logo (Turkey, 2000)
Neotones -clear green and yellow w/ Aussie flag & yellow buttons
Tommy Hilfiger - yellow w/ logo
Tsutaya - water blue w/ orange buttons (Japan, 2000)
Sakura Taisen - clear pink (2000)
Hello Kitty Special Box - light pink w/ logo (1999)
Hello Kitty Special Box 2 - light pink w/ logo (2000)
Lawson - Aqua Blue & Milky White (1999)
Takarazuka - atomic gold w/ aquatic life artwork (1999)
Jasco - clear purple w/ Mario artwork (1999)
Jasco - clear w/ Mario artwork (1999)
Cardcaptor Sakura - white & pink w/ artwork (1999)
Swedish - blue & yellow (limited to 3000 units)

Pokémon

Pokémon - yellow & blue w/ logo, artwork & colored buttons
Pokémon - silver & gold iridescent w/artwork around screen (U.S., Toys'R'Us exclusive)
Pokémon - clear blue & white w/ artwork (Hong Kong)
Pokémon - clear green & white w/ artwork (Taiwan)
Pokémon - yellow & blue w/ logo, artwork & colored buttons (Australia)
Pokémon Center - silver w/ artwork & logo (1999)
Pokémon Center - orange & blue w/ artwork & logo (1999)
Pokémon - Special Pikachu edition yellow w/ Pokémon Yellow

Game Boy Advance
Basic Colors

Teal (2001)
Indigo (2001)
Arctic (2001)
Glacier(2001)
Fuchsia (2001)
Spice (Japan,2001)
Black Guy Brown (1993)

Limited Edition Colors

Platinum/Silver (2002)
Gold (Japan,2002)
Clear Orange (Daiei, Japan, 2001)
Midnight Blue (Toys 'R' Us, Japan, 2001)
Jet/Black (Toys 'R' Us, U.S, 2003)
Red (Zellers, Canada)

Special Edition Variants

Target - Grape w/ logo (2001)
Target - Red w/ logo (2002)
Chobits - clear blue w/ logo (2002)
King of Fighters - clear black w/ logo (2002)
Toys 'R' Us -Midnight Blue w/ logo(2002)
Rockman Custom - blue (2001)
Jasco - Glacier w/ Mario artwork (2001)
Hello Kitty - pink w/ logo (2001)
Yomiuri Giants - clear purple w/ artwork (2001)

Pokémon

Pokémon Center (Latios & Latias) - blue w/ red buttons (2002)
Pokémon Center - Celebi green w/ artwork (2001)
Pokémon Center - Suicune blue w/ artwork (2001)
Pokémon Center NY - gold w/ artwork (US, 2001)
Pokémon Center NY - gold w/ artwork (JP, 2001)

Game Boy Advance SP
Basic Colors

Cobalt (2003)
Platinum (2003)
Onyx (2003)
Flame (2003)
Pearl Pink (2006)
Pearl Blue (2005)
Emerald (2004)
Graphite (2005)

Limited Edition Colors

Gold/Starlight Gold (Toys 'R' Us, Japan, 2003)
Pearl Green (Toys 'R' Us)
Lime (Target, US, 2003)
Dual Tone - Platinum & Onyx (US, 2004)
Surf Blue (US, 2005)
Pearl White (Circuit City, US, 2004)

Special Edition Variants

Famicom - red & white (Japan, 2004)
Famicom - red & white w/ gold decal (Japan, 2003)
Classic NES - grey w/ NES pattern (US and Europe, 2004)
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - Black w/ logo (Japan, 2004)
Naruto - orange w/ white Konoha symbol and blue buttons (Japan, 2004)
Rockstar Games - black w/ logo
Rockman EXE 4 Tournament Red Sun - blue (2003)
Legend of Zelda - gold w/ Triforce symbol (Europe, 2004) - only 25,000 were made.
Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap - 24 karat gold-plated (2004)
Donkey Kong - yellow w/ logo and brown buttons (2004)
Tribal - Platinum w/ tribal tattoo symbols (US and Europe, 2004)
Boktai - red & black (2003)
Sword of Mana - Mana Blue (2003)
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - white
Shrek 2 - Dual Tone Spice & Lime (2004)
China Dragon - black & red w/ artwork (China, 2004)
Mario - red & silver w/ Mario logo (2004)
Who Are You? - black w/ graffiti text (US, 2004)
Rip Curl - white w/ logo (Australia, 2004)
All Blacks - black w/ logo (New Zealand, 2003)
Gundam - red w/ Char Aznable symbol (Japan, 2003)
Metroid- red & orange w/ artwork (Japan, 2004)
SpongeBob SquarePants - yellow with pattern (Toys 'R' Us, US, 2005)

Pokémon

Charizard - Fire Red (2004)
Venusaur - Leaf Green (2004)
Groudon - Ruby (Red) (2003)
Kyogre - Sapphire (Blue) (2003)
Rayquaza - Emerald (Green) (Japan, 2004)
Torchic - Orange (Pokémon Center Japan, 2003)
Pikachu - Yellow ( 2005)

Variants of Unknown Origin

Blue Marble (Europe, Japan, 2004)
Grey Camouflage (Japan, 2004)
Green Camouflage (Japan, 2005)

Game Boy micro
Basic Colors

Silver (Worldwide [US with black faceplate] 2005)
Black (Japan and Australia [US with silver faceplate] 2005)
Purple (Japan and Australia, 2005)
Pearl Blue (Japan, 2005)
Pink (Europe, 2005)
Green (Europe and Asia, 2005)
Blue (Europe and Australia, 2005)
Red (Asia and Australia, 2005)

Special Edition Variants

20th Anniversary Edition - red w/ gold faceplate (USA, 2005)
Famicom - red w/ gold faceplate (Japan, 2005)
Pokémon - red w/ black faceplate & Pikachu silhouette (Japan, 2005)
Final Fantasy IV - blue unit with b&w Amano artwork (Japan, 2005)
Mother 3 - red w/ red, worn faceplate (Japan, 2006)

>>> What a nightmare..:luca:

[Peegee]

Found the fake console video

Nintendo ON HD - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61G07Z8aqlw)


All I can say is that I used to be a contract employee (to pull telecommunications crap) for panasonic for many years/months/I forget (we had a lot of work there) and the manager there once mentioned the Panasonic 3DO - you remember that crap? 600$ console in a time period when that was unheard of and the games sucked. I was pretty young then but I remember the system wasn't THAT bad - just incredibly unaffordable for what you got out of it. IIRC the product bombed and Panasonic went back to making tvs or whatever it does (actually I don't even know what that place was - maybe a warehouse for other panasonic products)

In terms of consoles I owned - I do have the game cube (it's at home somewhere), and played with the virtual boy when it came out (in toys r us)

the virtual boy is such a failure that Intendo will not acknowledge it in its list of products. You might not remember but once upon a time there was a very well produced 'Nintendo products' demo leading to a new, fake product. What tipped people off was Intendo mentioned the Virtual Boy in its list of previous products leading up to the 'fake' new console.

I'll try to find the video when I go home.

[jenovajunkie]

Where can I re-buy a NES, SNES, Genesis and games. I know there's lucky games, any suggestions?

[NorthernChaosGod]

Probably eBay.

[Shiny]

I have a bunch of Sega Saturn, NES, and SNES games I wanna sell.

[Mirage]

Game Boy
Basic Colors

Off-White(1989)

Play It Loud Series 1995

Deep Black (1995)
Gorgeous Green (1995)
Radiant Red (1995)
Vibrant Yellow (1995)
High Tech Transparent (1995)
White (1995)
Blue (1995)
Special Edition Variants

Manchester United - red w/ logo

Kirby pink

white with Toyota logo

black with Wario logo
Game Boy Pocket
Basic Colors

Silver (1996)
Black (1996)
Green (1996)
Blue (1996)
Red (1996)
Yellow (1996)
Clear (1996)
Pink (1996 JP)
Clear Purple (1996 JP)

Limited Edition Colors

Ice Blue (1997)(Some boxes were packed with Zelda)
Extreme Green (1997)
Emerald Green (1998) (Toys R Us JP)
Clear(Ice) blue (1996 Toys R Us JP)
Silver w/ grey border (US, 1996)
Silver w/ black border (US, 1997)
Gold (Packaged w/Donkey Kong Land)(EU)
Leaf Green(Donkey Kong Edition)
Blue/Yellow (1997) blue front/yellow back. 'Swedish Limited Edition' with certificate, 3000ex made
Grey (original style)

Special Edition Variants

Nintendo power anniversary - gold w/ logo (1997)
Famitsu Limited Edition - Clear (1996)
ANA - clear blue w/ logo (Japan, 1997)
Atlus - white w/ light blue border (Japan, 1997)
Seibu Lions - blue w/ logo (Japan, 1997)
Hello Kitty/Uranai Party - pink w/ artwork (Japan, 1997)
Hello Kitty - light pink w/ artwork (Japan, 1997)
Tamagotchi - pink (Japan, 1997)
Toyota[citation needed]

Game Boy Light
Basic Colors

Gold (Japan, 1998)
Silver (Japan, 1998)
Limited Edition Colors

Toys 'R' Us - Clear Yellow (Japan, 1998)

Special Edition Variants

Astro Boy - clear w/ artwork (Japan, 1998)
Osamu Tezuka - red w/ artwork (Japan, 1998)
Famitsu F02 Event Version - clear blue w/ white border (Japan, 1998)
Famitsu F02 Mail Order Version - clear blue w/ white border (Japan, 1998)
Pokémon Center Tokyo - yellow w/ logo & artwork (Japan, 1998)

Game Boy Color
Basic Colors

Grape (1998)
Teal (1998)
Kiwi (1998)
Berry (1998)
Dandelion (1998)
Atomic Purple (1998)
Neotones Ice (AU 1998)
Fuchsia (unknown)

Limited Edition Colors

Clear Black (2000, Japan)
Clear Green (Toys 'R' Us, Japan, 2000)
Midnight Blue (Toys 'R' Us, Japan, 1999)
Ice Blue (Toys 'R' Us, Japan)
Clear Orange (Daiei, Japan, 1999)
Clear Blue (ANA)

Special Edition Variants

Mirinda - clear orange w/ logo
Yedigun - clear orange w/ logo (Turkey, 2000)
Neotones -clear green and yellow w/ Aussie flag & yellow buttons
Tommy Hilfiger - yellow w/ logo
Tsutaya - water blue w/ orange buttons (Japan, 2000)
Sakura Taisen - clear pink (2000)
Hello Kitty Special Box - light pink w/ logo (1999)
Hello Kitty Special Box 2 - light pink w/ logo (2000)
Lawson - Aqua Blue & Milky White (1999)
Takarazuka - atomic gold w/ aquatic life artwork (1999)
Jasco - clear purple w/ Mario artwork (1999)
Jasco - clear w/ Mario artwork (1999)
Cardcaptor Sakura - white & pink w/ artwork (1999)
Swedish - blue & yellow (limited to 3000 units)

Pokémon

Pokémon - yellow & blue w/ logo, artwork & colored buttons
Pokémon - silver & gold iridescent w/artwork around screen (U.S., Toys'R'Us exclusive)
Pokémon - clear blue & white w/ artwork (Hong Kong)
Pokémon - clear green & white w/ artwork (Taiwan)
Pokémon - yellow & blue w/ logo, artwork & colored buttons (Australia)
Pokémon Center - silver w/ artwork & logo (1999)
Pokémon Center - orange & blue w/ artwork & logo (1999)
Pokémon - Special Pikachu edition yellow w/ Pokémon Yellow

Game Boy Advance
Basic Colors

Teal (2001)
Indigo (2001)
Arctic (2001)
Glacier(2001)
Fuchsia (2001)
Spice (Japan,2001)
Black Guy Brown (1993)

Limited Edition Colors

Platinum/Silver (2002)
Gold (Japan,2002)
Clear Orange (Daiei, Japan, 2001)
Midnight Blue (Toys 'R' Us, Japan, 2001)
Jet/Black (Toys 'R' Us, U.S, 2003)
Red (Zellers, Canada)

Special Edition Variants

Target - Grape w/ logo (2001)
Target - Red w/ logo (2002)
Chobits - clear blue w/ logo (2002)
King of Fighters - clear black w/ logo (2002)
Toys 'R' Us -Midnight Blue w/ logo(2002)
Rockman Custom - blue (2001)
Jasco - Glacier w/ Mario artwork (2001)
Hello Kitty - pink w/ logo (2001)
Yomiuri Giants - clear purple w/ artwork (2001)

Pokémon

Pokémon Center (Latios & Latias) - blue w/ red buttons (2002)
Pokémon Center - Celebi green w/ artwork (2001)
Pokémon Center - Suicune blue w/ artwork (2001)
Pokémon Center NY - gold w/ artwork (US, 2001)
Pokémon Center NY - gold w/ artwork (JP, 2001)

Game Boy Advance SP
Basic Colors

Cobalt (2003)
Platinum (2003)
Onyx (2003)
Flame (2003)
Pearl Pink (2006)
Pearl Blue (2005)
Emerald (2004)
Graphite (2005)

Limited Edition Colors

Gold/Starlight Gold (Toys 'R' Us, Japan, 2003)
Pearl Green (Toys 'R' Us)
Lime (Target, US, 2003)
Dual Tone - Platinum & Onyx (US, 2004)
Surf Blue (US, 2005)
Pearl White (Circuit City, US, 2004)

Special Edition Variants

Famicom - red & white (Japan, 2004)
Famicom - red & white w/ gold decal (Japan, 2003)
Classic NES - grey w/ NES pattern (US and Europe, 2004)
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - Black w/ logo (Japan, 2004)
Naruto - orange w/ white Konoha symbol and blue buttons (Japan, 2004)
Rockstar Games - black w/ logo
Rockman EXE 4 Tournament Red Sun - blue (2003)
Legend of Zelda - gold w/ Triforce symbol (Europe, 2004) - only 25,000 were made.
Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap - 24 karat gold-plated (2004)
Donkey Kong - yellow w/ logo and brown buttons (2004)
Tribal - Platinum w/ tribal tattoo symbols (US and Europe, 2004)
Boktai - red & black (2003)
Sword of Mana - Mana Blue (2003)
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - white
Shrek 2 - Dual Tone Spice & Lime (2004)
China Dragon - black & red w/ artwork (China, 2004)
Mario - red & silver w/ Mario logo (2004)
Who Are You? - black w/ graffiti text (US, 2004)
Rip Curl - white w/ logo (Australia, 2004)
All Blacks - black w/ logo (New Zealand, 2003)
Gundam - red w/ Char Aznable symbol (Japan, 2003)
Metroid- red & orange w/ artwork (Japan, 2004)
SpongeBob SquarePants - yellow with pattern (Toys 'R' Us, US, 2005)

Pokémon

Charizard - Fire Red (2004)
Venusaur - Leaf Green (2004)
Groudon - Ruby (Red) (2003)
Kyogre - Sapphire (Blue) (2003)
Rayquaza - Emerald (Green) (Japan, 2004)
Torchic - Orange (Pokémon Center Japan, 2003)
Pikachu - Yellow ( 2005)

Variants of Unknown Origin

Blue Marble (Europe, Japan, 2004)
Grey Camouflage (Japan, 2004)
Green Camouflage (Japan, 2005)

Game Boy micro
Basic Colors

Silver (Worldwide [US with black faceplate] 2005)
Black (Japan and Australia [US with silver faceplate] 2005)
Purple (Japan and Australia, 2005)
Pearl Blue (Japan, 2005)
Pink (Europe, 2005)
Green (Europe and Asia, 2005)
Blue (Europe and Australia, 2005)
Red (Asia and Australia, 2005)

Special Edition Variants

20th Anniversary Edition - red w/ gold faceplate (USA, 2005)
Famicom - red w/ gold faceplate (Japan, 2005)
Pokémon - red w/ black faceplate & Pikachu silhouette (Japan, 2005)
Final Fantasy IV - blue unit with b&w Amano artwork (Japan, 2005)
Mother 3 - red w/ red, worn faceplate (Japan, 2006)

>>> What a nightmare..:luca:

Huh... do you consider all those to be failed consoles?

[NorthernChaosGod]

I have a bunch of Sega Saturn, NES, and SNES games I wanna sell.

What do you have on for NES and SNES?

[Roto13]

well he's right

JET SET RADIO GAME PLAY - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbf1v2Ctv4)

Shenmue Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US-lyfBSK9I)

Crazy Taxi (Sega Dreamcast) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhsE6qdQr1g)

Sonic Adventure Emerald Coast (Dreamcast) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnNTj0zwMFU)

Skies of Arcadia Intro (Dreamcast) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fl3ZwERMgE)

Ikaruga Chapter 1 - Ideal (Hard Mode) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LES0bAg0dBk)

You forgot Soul Calibur, Power Stone 1&2, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, and RE: Code Veronica (or at least it got those last two well before other consoles). I'm probably forgetting more too.

Half of these games ended up on GameCube, improved. Some of them ended up on other systems.

The Dreamcast having SoulCalibur 1 doesn't give it an advantage over every other home console that generation that got SoulCalibur 2.

The Dreamcast essentially just had a better launch than most consoles. The fact that it died so fast kept it from ever building an actual great library. If you could only play games released in the first year of a console's life, the Dreamcast would be one of the best ever. That's not the case, though.

[krissy]

speaking of ending up on different consoles

JET SET RADIOOOOO will be on psn and xbl in the summer
so grab that up ukno

[Slothy]

The Dreamcast having SoulCalibur 1 doesn't give it an advantage over every other home console that generation that got SoulCalibur 2.

Depends on who you ask. In some ways SC1 was better than SC2, and I'm far from the only one who would argue it. Largely due to ring outs being easier and therefore a much bigger threat, which meant zoning was vastly more important. I think they were a bit too easy, but they were also dialed a bit too far the other way in SC2. So I'd say SC1 actually was the better fighting game, but SC2 had a more diverse character roster since there was more differentiation between the cloned characters and Weapon Master mode is still the best training mode I've ever seen.

Honestly, based on the strength of the DC's launch lineup, had Sega not been so inept in the marketing department I think things would have turned out a lot differently because even if games were later ported or had sequels transition to other consoles, it was only because where the hell else could they go? The DC was basically dead at that point. Somewhat ironic too since it had roughly 50% of the sales of the Gamecube or Xbox in less than half the lifetime of either. Had Sega not dropped the ball I think it easily could have outperformed those two in lifetime sales.

[Roto13]

The Dreamcast having SoulCalibur 1 doesn't give it an advantage over every other home console that generation that got SoulCalibur 2.

Depends on who you ask. In some ways SC1 was better than SC2, and I'm far from the only one who would argue it. Largely due to ring outs being easier and therefore a much bigger threat, which meant zoning was vastly more important. I think they were a bit too easy, but they were also dialed a bit too far the other way in SC2. So I'd say SC1 actually was the better fighting game, but SC2 had a more diverse character roster since there was more differentiation between the cloned characters and Weapon Master mode is still the best training mode I've ever seen.

I think your post does a better job of arguing why SC2 was better than the other way around. >_>

[Del Murder]

I got my brother a Virtual Boy a while back. That thing is a clunker. The instructions even say not to play for more than 15 min at a time. lol

The Wario game was pretty fun, though.

[Roto13]

I got my brother a Virtual Boy a while back. That thing is a clunker. The instructions even say not to play for more than 15 min at a time. lol

The Wario game was pretty fun, though.

I figure if Wario Land and Mario Clash get 3DS Virtual Console releases or remakes, the Virtual Boy will become completely unnecessary. :P

[Slothy]

I think your post does a better job of arguing why SC2 was better than the other way around. >_>

Depends on how you look at it. I'll take a better fighting game with a slightly less diverse cast of characters over a worse fighting game with marginally more diversity and a better single player since multiplayer is the important part in a fighting game anyway. Doesn't mean I didn't play the hell out of SC2 though. I just find the fighting more enjoyable in SC1.

[Roto13]

More rings outs =/= better fighting game.

But ok.

[Slothy]

More rings outs =/= better fighting game.

But ok.

Matter of opinion. I liked more ring outs because it made positioning far more important than in the later games. You didn't just have to be better than your opponent and watch how close you were to them, you had to watch where you were within the arena because letting the fight go towards the edge of an arena could be a huge risk. Of course, you could also try and use that to your advantage to try and win, especially if you were losing a fight badly. It made for some really interesting decision making and strategies which were unique to Soul Calibur compared to other fighting games and were a huge part of the game, but were then lessened to a huge degree with each successive entry as ring outs became increasingly difficult to perform, and something you barely had to worry about because the number of situations where it was a threat were reduced to a small handful. Honestly, the harder ring outs became the more SC moved from something unique and interesting into the realm of a being a standard 3D fighter with weapons and absurdly dressed characters.

[Roto13]

If you're playing against someone who doesn't suck entirely, you still definitely need to be aware of where you are on the stage. Ring outs still happen all the time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99wu4Xf2SjY), but the game isn't sumo with swords, and it absolutely never should be. Ring outs are why Kilik is the only character anyone ever uses online in SCIV.

If anything, SCII has more depth if only for replacing some of those ring outs with wall attacks. Not every stage has to be a floating island.

Ring outs are also far from unique and interesting in 3D fighters. They've been the standard since Virtua Fighter 1.

[Mirage]

If you look at tournament matches in SC5, you will notice that the players are usually *very* aware of their positioning relative to the stage's edges (those who aren't are usually eliminated early in the tournament by a ring out!), and it's not uncommon of them to eat a hit just to get away from an edge. And even at this level of play, where both players are extremely aware of the very real possibility of getting ringed out, a significant amount of tournament matches are still won by ring outs.

I watch a lot of high level streams for 5 (as well as play the game myself, of course, but not as much as I'd like, and i'm not as good as i'd like to be either), and I'm pretty certain that if ring outs were significantly much easier to perform in that game, the game would be so reliant on ring outs that any other strategy would feel pointless, and we'd lose a lot of depth and variety.

[Slothy]

I'm less familiar with SCIV and V Mirage, so perhaps things are different now, and I have no doubt ring outs play a big part of high level competitive play. That's kind of the point I was making though, they should be a big part of competitive play because they do lead to some interesting situations and decision making. And yes Roto, ring outs still happen in SC2. I don't recall denying that. But they are less frequent and not just because of stage design. I would have liked things a bit closer to the SC1 end of the spectrum, but again, I fully admit as well that SC1 was a smidge too far to that end as well. Somewhere in between both games would have been ideal for me. Yet I seem to recall SC3 straying even farther into reducing ring out territory, but my memory may be failing me because it was a pretty bad game overall.

And yes, ring outs were part of Virtua Fighter as well. But I have a hard time thinking of a series which is less accessible to new players than Virtua Fighter, and stages were usually big enough that they were less of a consideration than in SC (at least with 4 and 5 where I picked up the series). But that's literally only one other fighting game. I can't recall any other 3D fighters where ring outs play even a somewhat minor role off hand. I've never seen them in any of the Tekken games that I've played (not a big fan though so perhaps I missed them somewhere). And stuff like Power Stone didn't have them either. I guess there's Smash Bros where it's the only way to beat your opponent, but that's pretty much a 2D series.

And now I find myself wondering how we even got this far off topic. The point was never that SC1 was better than 2 anyway (even if I do like it more in some ways). The point was that the Dreamcast had a killer lineup of titles and had it gotten the marketing support it needed from Sega things probably would have gone much differently for it. The fact that titles were later re-released on other consoles, or that sequels moved to other systems two or three years after it was dead and buried doesn't really change any of that.

[Mirage]

I've played SC since the second installment, and I don't think there is a very big difference in how "easy" it was to ring out someone between then and now, I just think that it has always been really easy to get ringed out if you don't pay attention when you play against someone who is actually good. I think the main thing that changes ringoutfriendliness between installments is how the properties of various characters' attacks are changed, not stage designs.

In SC5 there are also destructable walls on some stages, so which positions are safe from ringouts actually varies over the length of the battle. A wall might stop a ring out once, but then there's a big hole in it where you could suddenly get ringed out now, so you have to pay attention to where the walls are broken.