Kingdom Hearts discussion thread!

[Fynn]

Let's discuss stuff about Kingdom Hearts! (duh) It's a pretty complex series, so I expect we might not understand some things. Let's think about them together! :love: Expect unmarked spoilers for KHI, CoM, II, 358/2 Days, BbS, coded, but please mark spoilers for Dream Drop Distance like this You looked! Don't look here if you still want to be surprised by the game!.

So there's this thing that bugs me - Xehanort's eye color. They are yellow as Master Xehanort, from 3D we know that they've always been this way, Terranort has them right after being possessed, and both his heartless and nobody have yellow eyes. So why is it that, after losing his memories, Terranort's eyes become brown, when Terra had blue eyes? :confused:

[Del Murder]

A wizard did it.

Honestly, I don't think his eye color is a thing. Brown eyes are pretty generic, so maybe it was just a default color given to someone without memories.

[Hollycat]

Yellow is the color of darkness?

This thread is relevant to my interests.

[Fynn]

Yellow is the color of darkness?

Actually... Nope, not quite. 3D Allegedly reveals it's a sign of Xehanort's influence.

[Mercen-X]

I honestly don't think Xehanort's eyes were always yellow. I mean, what is he then, an alien? Vanitas was apprenticed to Master Xehanort but was he meant as a vessel? Let's not forget he had yellow eyes too.

My big issue still is whose Nobody is Twilight Thorn?
BTWFYI, I think Axel's Heartless was Trick Master from Wonderland.

[Fynn]

BTWFYI, I think Axel's Heartless was Trick Master from Wonderland.

OMG, that makes too much sense! Bravo :D
Whose is Parasite Cage then?

[Mercen-X]

I'm not sure why, but I don't consider Parasite Cage to be a significant Heartless.

In KH1, you face just the two Guard Armors, one before your journey begins and one upon returning to Traverse Town. These could potentially be the Heartless form of Xaldin and Lexaeus, who were Ansem's guards.

Hehehe. Nothing else of significance comes to mind.


Sora is extremely powerful. He gets stronger as his heart becomes stronger... through experience and his friends. It may be that not only his heart collects experience, but that is the real source of power in the universe of Kingdom Hearts.

Sora's problem: he can only use his own potential when wielding a Keyblade, a weapon which is proof enough that his heart is strong. No FF character or any non-Keyblade KH character shares that problem. They all have enough other ability to fight, whether psychic, magic etc. and Sora, no matter his stats, is no all-powerful deity in the storyline. Donald is definitely stronger in terms of magic than Sora.

No matter what people think, not only Scar becomes a Heartless. Maleficent's Dragon form was unleashed by Key to Hearts the same as Sora's Shadow therefore is not only a powerful form she transforms into like she does outside of the Castle of Slumber, it is also her Heartless form. While Jafar, Ursula, et cetera didn't become traditional heartless they are also deeply steeped in darkness.

"Kingdom Hearts" is the powerful omnipresent source of all hearts in the Kingdom Hearts universe. But comparing it to God "whom" people believe to be the omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent creator of everything is just... wrong. Especially the "Absorb God and you become God" theory. Not to mention that Xemnas' Kingdom Hearts was artificial and damaged by Ansem the Wise. And there is nothing more to say about that.

Xemnas is the most powerful Kingdom Hearts character. And the story proves that Sora alone is not able to defeat him. So the question of Sora being the most powerful Kingdom Hearts character is answered already. And I highly doubt that Sora would even stand a chance against the reborn version of Xehanort. That's the final battle of this Kingdom Hearts Saga and writing a main villain who can be defeated by the main character only is not going to happen. That's not Final Fantasy-like. And Kingdom Hearts is the child of Final Fantasy.

VILLAINS
Lord Garland/Chaos:
Garland creates a time loop and uses the power of the orbs to gain the power of Chaos, and Dissidia even shows that it is the natural power of Chaos, a power which is a old and great as the void, so he is not only a monster called "Chaos", even though that was definitely the meaning 25 years ago.

Emperor Mateus Paramecia:
Mateus reigns an empire, teaches the meaning of fear is manipulative and rules the afterlife as Lucifer himself.

Zande:
Zande freezes time and summons a Dark Cloud which should reset everything

Zemus:
Zemus controls minds even though he is sealed away and can return by nothing but hatred once he is dead.

Lord Exdeath:
Is a fusion of evil souls possessing a tree who is almost immortal so he had to be sealed away and even within his seal he was able to command his servants to destroy the crystals. He is an incredibly strong Black Mage who can create illusions, so he let the Otherworld crystals look like monsters so that Bartz and the others destroy them and open the Rift. He can transform into a part of a tree or a tree himself and even though his will was not strong enough he controlled the power of the void for some time. And the his true power, the power of Neo X-Death, so the fusion of the evil souls which were sealed in the forest and which are released and controlled by the void in the end is incredible.

Commander Kefka Palazzo:
Is extremely manipulative and so insane you never know what his next step is. Even though he plans to restore the statues and absorbs some Esper's power before he absorbed their power as a spontaneous action when Celes hurt him with a sword. Then he devastates the world, builds a giant tower of trash and makes the land infertile with his Light of Judgment.

Sephiroth:
Has a stronger will than everyone else and an indestructable one. He can control JENOVA cells and also use them to regenerate and reunite. He can absorb life energy, will power and knowledge, everything which is the source of the true power in Final Fantasy VII and since he resists the lifestream he became so strong that he doesn't need Materia for magic if the knowledge of how to use it is within the lifestream. He can create illusions which look and feell as if they were real and since he has the strongest and most powerful will of all he can easily fool everyone. He has the ability to shapeshift, he has psychic abilities like levitating/flying, telekineses and telepathy and reading minds and memories, he can teleport, he can go through matter, et cetera. He is the strongest wizard, no wonder with the strongest will which can get stronger limitless and he is the strongest swordsman and the one one who can use Masamune like he does and not only with the Iai-Style since it is a very long and heavy Nodachi. And he can destroy the solar system, no matter what people think. Stats = Nothing, Scene: Demonstration of Story Abilities.

AND: Before Advent Children he even reassured not to fade by linking his existence with Cloud's memories.

Ultimecia:
She can control the power of other Ultimecia's one they die in another time period to control other witches in another time period and so take a look at that time period with her conciousness. She is an incredibly powerful Time Mage. She can read minds and make them real.

Baron Kuja "King":
He is a Weapon Seller who manipulates a queen, darkens her heart and finally absorbs it to get into Trance mode. He destroy a planet. Then he "just" wants to destroy the Existence Crystal. But, no, no way he is powerful. He is just a Super Saiyan 4.

Maester Seymour Guado:
Very manipulative and a genius in terms of strategies. Physically pushes back a I don't know how many tons-heavy [Sin] Spawn. Wants to destroy all lifeforms to release them and he even does destroy many of them. And most of it as an Unsent One.

Emperor Vayne Cardias Solidor:
Like Seymour very manipulative and a genius in terms of strategies. He also wants to make things easier by destroying them and teams with Venat to destroy the Undying Ones. He has a super airship, the Bahamut and uses manufacted Nethicite. And then he fuses with Venat to become an Undying One himself who is able to destroy a whole airship just with a beam of his Aura.

Galenth Dysley:
Manipulates the heroes and forces them to go through a whole Final Fantasy. Strong enough to kill them all. Nothing more to say.

Like the true Sephiroth says to Sora:
"I admit you're very skilled."

And that's it. No more and no less. Only the dirt Sephiroth wipes off of his leather coat once he is done with Sora.

Sephiroth and Tifa are supposedly parts of Cloud's psyche. I wonder if Aerith's in there as well...

[Hollycat]

What's funny about the sephiroth thing in there is cloud and zack are both much stronger than sephiroth individually by the end of their stories, Zack even kills an actual goddess.

[Fynn]

What's funny about the sephiroth thing in there is cloud and zack are both much stronger than sephiroth individually by the end of their stories, Zack even kills an actual goddess.

Are the quests from CC canon, though?

[Mercen-X]

Quests as in optional? I wonder though what accomplishments Zack had in BBS. Also, Aerith were not another fragment of Cloud's psyche then perhaps she's somehow related to Xehanort's time-traveling. Did Zack mention her at all in BBS?

[Fynn]

Quests as in optional? I wonder though what accomplishments Zack had in BBS. Also, Aerith were not another fragment of Cloud's psyche then perhaps she's somehow related to Xehanort's time-traveling. Did Zack mention her at all in BBS?

Nope. And he was totally hitting on Aqua.
And yes, I meant optional missions.

[Hollycat]

If you don't consider them cannon, then you can't consider ruby or emerald cannon, and they are weaker then Minerva. What you have to realise is that both Zack and Cloud are the only two people to ever take on human Sephiroth solo and defeat him, which means that in his human form, he is not as strong as either, wheread in the form where he uses Super Nova he is stronger than Cloud, and as for Zack we have no idea. If only we had actual statistics for Sephiroth vs Genesis, because remember, Angeal said That Genesis was strong enough to kill all three of them with a single attack. The Zack vs Cloud debate will never end, and we will never know if Sephiroth is as strong as Genesis or stronger. Most of all, we can assume that considering minerva is a hundred times stronger than final Genesis, if she was Cannon she would most likely be the most powerful being to ever grace FF.

sorry, that whole paragraph was off topic. In BBS, young zack is already at least as powerful as the Cloud from KH, maybe stronger, so I don't know what they are trying to say about him.

[Mercen-X]

I suppose Zack's power in BBS reflects how exceptional he was in VII. He was immune to Jenova's influence (thus Sephiroth's), powerful enough to hold his own against Sephiroth even if he didn't beat him, powerful enough to take on empowered Genesis solo as stated in canon.

[Hollycat]

Let's take a look at some of the other ff characters, no one is going to deny Zack is one of the most powerful characters of ff and Cloud and he are probably in the top 10, but how about the others? Squall, Tifa, Yuffie, etc. I think we can skip wakka and Selphie and Tidus do to them not having shown up again yet.

[Mercen-X]

Well, I was only mentioning Zack's awesome in relation to Cloud.
I think scenes of Cloud and Squall battling back-to-back are awesome as both are on equal footing insomuch as KH has a say.
Although I love to see action scenes splicing awesome FF characters, I think if more FF characters are going to appear in KH, they should be in youth form (i.e. Tidus, Wakka, Selfie, Seifer, Rai, Fuu)...
I also had the idea that YRPs appearance in II as faeries be associated with Dresspheres (although I may have heard that somewhere)... I just prefer human form even if they're younger or older than originally depicted rather than fearie.

Xehanort diffuses a la Voldemort or Sephiroth... so...
"Limit" Kairi, Keyblade Kairi (KHII), Naminé (Nobody), Xion, and Aqua (bequeathed Kairi the Keyblade).

Valor, Wise, Master, Vanitas/Anti-Sora, "Twilight" Sora, 3D Sora, Data-Sora, Roxas/Ventus, Limit Sora and Black Cloak, 3D Riku (Way to Dawn), Dark Riku (Key to Hearts), Riku-Ansem (Guardian), Riku's Replica (Soul Eater), Axel (because I said so), Terra, Data-Riku, "Limit" Riku, etc.

Who the hell are Luxord, Marluxia, Demyx, and Larxene's somebodies? Aside from Luxord, their respective Heartless could've been lame element-based artificial grunts like opera, nocturne, etc. I don't remember a time-wielding Heartless though.

amagram X"ehanort" to "Rothean", something like "reddish", w/e... "Xehanort" could mean "from northern boundary". Pronounce Xeha as Sheha means "Promise; Seventh; From the boundary" and Nort, of course, means "North." lol. I love a good stretch.

"Sora Ventus Vanitas" anagramed results in "ravenous Saint Vast"...
"Roxas Ventus Vanitas" results in "avant vasseur's toxin"... Avant Vasseur is French meaning "head vassal", an important person in service of a feudal lord in exchange for use of lands.
"Terra Riku Xemnas" warrants "rare Marxist nuke"
"Xehanort Ansem Riku" gets you "shrink auxanometer"
"Kairi Namine Xion" equals "make rain in Ixion" or "axiom: Raine in ink"
"Kairi Namine Aqua" is "aquamarine; a kin, I".

I came up with one of my own: Liercian Phox... you figure it out.

[Hollycat]

Xion is not Kairi she is
Roxas's memories of how Sora sees himself and Kairi

[Arizona Lively]

"ravenous Saint Vast"
"rare Marxist nuke"
"shrink auxanometer"
"make rain in Ixion" or "axiom: Raine in ink"
"Kairi Namine Aqua" is "aquamarine; a kin, I".
Liercian Phox... you figure it out.
1 What is that?
2 Marxist...
3 I looked up auxanometer. Funny.
4 I don't get it. Also, how is "Raine in ink" an axiom?
5 The Best One Ever

Liercian Phox... NECROPHILIAC!

[Mercen-X]

1) an adjective, a title, and a potential surname
2) yeah...
3) are you sure you get it?
4) That's just what the anagram read. I don't think it's really an axiom.
5) Well, I don't know about that

Xion is not Kairi she is
Roxas's memories of how Sora sees himself and Kairi

Okay. Well, I included Axel as a Riku candidate so... you know, when I think about it, I listed Vanitas as Anti-Sora so I probably should have listed Roxas/Ventus as Final-Form "Twilight" Sora.