Shin Megami Tensei IV Announced

[Wolf Kanno]

Well, that was faster than expected. I figured the MegaTen team would wait until the ten year mark like last time but I guess this is pretty close. :D

Shin Megami Tensei IV confirmed by Famitsu ad - Neoseeker (http://www.neoseeker.com/news/19320-shin-megami-tensei-iv-confirmed-by-famitsu-ad/)

The game was confirmed in a recent Famitsu issue and it looks like the team is doing what other companies (Squenix and Sega most noticeably) have been doing and decided to release a numbered sequel on a handheld. Looks like a 3DS is definetly in my future at this point. Though, I now wonder if this means Persona 5 might also make the jump from console to handheld?

[Skyblade]

Shin Megami Tensei is good, but Persona is better.

Official Site (http://megaten4.jp/)
http://i.imgur.com/pLjlk.png
http://i.imgur.com/8SeYr.png

[Mirage]

Oh hey cool a high def megaten game i'm so hap... Fuck you, 3DS, Fuck you in hell.

[Fynn]

Yay! Another reason to get a 3DS! :D

I don't know about you, but I loved Strange Journey to bits. Hope they go for something similar, only even better!

[Mirage]

Oh I don't know, I have this strange liking for big displays and comfortable controllers. Maybe I'm just strange.

[Skyblade]

Perhaps. Personally, I have a dislike of sitting in the same chair looking the same direction for hours on end. I need to move, to lie down, to sit, to change rooms, to play when I'm on break at work or waiting at the doctor's office. Handhelds are just so much more convenient.

[Wolf Kanno]

The design of the MegaTen games makes the handhelds a better choice. The games designs are still pretty archaic by most modern gaming standards. It's kind of a waste to have a game like this on a major console when it still loves using first person perspective and dungeon designs that are more labyrinthine than visual wonders. I feel the team is doing themselves and the player a favor by not moving it to a console. I mean Nocturne had some cool visual effects but the game could have been easily recreated for the PS1 or even ported to one of the handhelds of this past generation.

Also considering that JRPGs have lost their place in West, its more profitable to design it with the Japanese Gamers taste, meaning handhelds are more profitable, since that's where the JRPG genre has pretty much moved to this generation. I'm just grateful it didn't get turned into a cell phone title since that is also huge in Japan.

I am curious to know what the game will be about and what systems from previous games it plans on using. I mean Strange Journey began to experiment with a gameplay style that moved away from Press Turn, but Press Turn system is what really set the MegaTen titles apart last generation, so I wonder if they may make a return to it, due to its popularity.

[Del Murder]

Are these games fun? What other games are they most like and what's the best way to get into them?

[Roogle]

The series itself is very old. I remember hearing about it when I was a child. I imagine that it still uses the same gameplay mechanics as Wolf Kanno mentioned, so it's likely prone to a higher difficulty and an unforgiving nature compared to most games.

You could probably play some of the older games by an emulator if you're interested in getting to know the series. I know that it's difficult as there are many games in that series that were never released here because they deal with popular religious themes and deities; therefore, you have to figure out which ones were released here, which ones have fan translations, and so on.

[Skyblade]

The original Shin Megami Tensei game came out in (I think) 1992.

It is an old series all right, with a ton of spin offs, and it goes through quite a lot of changes in its various incarnations.

The most popular spinoff (at least, outside of Japan) is easily the Persona series.



The main SMT series as a whole is some of the most classical JRPG gaming you will encounter anywhere. Like Dragon Quest, it's as traditional as JRPGs get, except on the other end. While DQ is all light and silly, SMT has a much darker mood.

Story wise, the main series involves wars between Heaven and Hell, and the varying forces of Angels and Demons as they battle, and the havoc these wars cause on Earth. The game pulls figures from varying mythologies of the world, but, unlike Persona games, actually makes them individual characters with personalities and places in the plot.

Perhaps more importantly, it lets them join your party, and this is one of the two major twists on gameplay. While you get the standard turn based options ("Attack", "Magic", etcetera), you also get options to negotiate and communicate with enemies. It takes a turn, sure. But you can get items, weaken enemies, cause enemies to flee, cause them to join you, or just piss them off or waste a turn, depending on how you talk to them, what other demons you've acquired, or even what level you are when you talk to them. It gets really deep.

The second twist is the difficulty. It is no coincidence that Atlus also made Dark Souls. The SMT games can be insanely difficult. Anyone who says turn based gaming can't be hard has never played an SMT game. The series is famous for its "my way or the highway" bosses, who will flat out kill you instantly if you don't use the right strategies on them. But even without them, the games delight in making you miserable. Actually, this series, and most Atlus games as a whole, enjoy making you beat yourself up.


The games are good, solid JRPGs. But they aren't perfect, and I definitely prefer the Persona games.

First, the setting tends to be better. While the mood in both series is dark, and extremely atmospheric, the main SMT series lends itself a bit too much to a post-apocalyptic "everybody's dead, Dave" approach. Generally, by the time the game starts, you don't have a lot else to fight for except your own survival, as the rest of the world is pretty screwed. In Persona, you wind up fighting to prevent judgement day before it occurs, rather than just dealing with the aftermath. Yeah, you can decide the outcome of a demon/angel war in SMT. But I prefer fighting for humanity, which brings me to my second point.

I'm not a fan of how they handle religion in the SMT games. Relegion is a huge part of the series, and depending on how knowledgable you are about the cultures and mythological figures involved, you can be in for a pretty damned annoying look at various relegions. But this is definitely a case of Your Mileage May Vary (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Quotes/YourMileageMayVary). And even I admit it's usually better than most relegions are handled in games, where they are usually just an excuse to have a mystical organized bad guy group. They do have a clear mythology, with goals, motives, a hierarchy, and events. It's just how badly the series meshes with any of the actual mythological entities that the game uses. If you disconnect it entirely from any of the actual mythologies it uses, and just take them all as entirely new characters, you'll be a lot better off. But enough on relegion.

Third, I prefer the characterization in Persona much better. The cast in SMT is huge, as there are hundreds of demons and angels to talk to and recruit. But, like Chrono Cross, this comes back to haunt the game. Because the characters just aren't as good. The development and exploration of character traits and personalities is just nowhere near as good as it is in Persona. You don't get to see characters really develop or grow, and, as a result, you don't get as attached to them.

Unfortunately, the Persona series is easier than SMT, only spiking up to close to SMT's difficulty with things like the optional superbosses. But, as a whole, I think it's just a better series.

[Wolf Kanno]

While they certainly have a Japanese view of religion, I would argue based on my own knowledge of Myth and religion that the series does a pretty good job on keeping close to the source material, perhaps not with Yahweh, but Christianity doesn't exactly have the prettiest history in the land of the rising sun, so it's understandable.

The thing about the main SMT games is that its all about being a blank antagonist who ultimately chooses the fate of the world. The demons definetly have their parts and personalities but the ones that join you are more like Pokemon (which is what MegaTen closely resembles, though it predates the Pokemon games) in terms of what they bring to your party. It's definetly one of those series where the story and your choices are more important than the cast. The side characters are often more relevant as allegory or being mouth pieces for the factions that are fighting over the state of the world.

The original MegaTen on the Famicom was based off a series of popular novels in Japan, about a teenager who creates a demon summoning program and releases Loki, Seth, and Lucifer into Tokyo. The MegaTen team bought the creative license and made a sequel later that involved a nuclear holocaust world where demons roam.

The series really became popular (In Japan) when the Shin Megami Tensei series was released on the Super Famicom. The first game deals starts with a teenager getting strange dreams and receiving a strange computer program that allows him to summon demons. He finds that forces within the Japanese government are trying to open a portal to Makai (Demon World) due to the government being overtaken by one's of it's generals who is a member of the Gaean Cult. This catches the eye of the world as they fear the new power Japan has acquired and certain demonic forces (namely Thor) infiltrate the U.S. and cause a nuclear strike on Japan. Your character survives and finds himself a few years later, after the attack (it's a long story) and now Tokyo is not only overrun with demons but two religious orders are battling it out for control of mankind's futures with the Devas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_%28Hinduism%29) and Archangels taking sides. Which side you choose will ultimately affect the ending.

SMTII is a direct sequel based on the Neutral ending of the first, where the hero chooses a world where both sides try to get along. SMTII has more of a cyberpunk setting than the previous entry and you play a gladiator named Hawk whom the government has determined may be the prophecised Messiah in their religious texts. You take on missions for the government but soon discover that its been corrupted (by archangels no less!) and is planning on creating an eternal kingdom for only a select group of loyal followers while the rest of the world is purged. You then are tasked with either helping them or siding with the not so righteous resistance forces. This game eventually involves you either siding with Yahweh (Order) or Lucifer(Chaos) or humanity(Neutral).

SMTIII: Nocturne/Lucifer's Call/Maniax is the only entry in the numbered series to be released in the west, it's also the entry that put the franchise on the map, and brought the revolutionary Press Turn Combat system which has been featured in most of their PS2 games including spin-off franchises like Persona and Digital Devil Saga/Avatar Turner. SMTIII is about a a student who goes to visit his favorite teacher in the hospital with a few of his fellow classmates only to discover the teacher tricked you into coming because it was the only place that would survive the Conception, an event that destroys the world by returning it back to its spiritual essence until the world can find its own Reason (laws that dictate the world) and be reborn again. Your character doesn't quite survive the end of the world but is saved in the last moments by a strange mute boy and his cackling assistant who transform you into a demon by infecting you with a demon parasite. Your teacher, two fellow classmates, a reporter investigating a business tycoon/cult leader and said cult leader are the only humans who survive the end of the world and now live in the Inverted Tokyo that is ruled by demons, infested with the Conception race of Manikins (basically reanimated human corpses) and souls of humanity (who don't realize they are dead or that the world ended for that matter). Each person you know comes up with their own ideal vision of a perfect world and their factions clash with each other as each tries to summon the physical embodiment of their reason to take hold of the spiritual essences of the world and give birth to their new ideal world. You simply have the choice of helping one of them or none of them.

SMT: Strange Journey is a bout a mysterious block hole appearing the Antarctic, and it's slowly swallowing the planet. An international team of soldiers and scientist are using the best technology to study it by entering. The expedition starts with a total disaster as the teams are separated and many members are killed by demons that are within. The teams get the mysterious program that allows them to summon demons (yes this is pretty much a very common plot element in the series) and through fighting fire with fire, they can finally explore the black hole interior and find the rest of the team. All the while, the place changes back and forth into the reflections of mankinds greatest sins, for instance one section of the area is basically a war zone with burning bombs and air raids, very reminiscent of WWII. Another location looks like a shopping mall. The game does a alot as a throwback to the Super Famicom entries like being in first person mode again and reusing some sprites. The game also drops the Press Turn system and replaces it with a modified version where exploiting an enemy weakness allows demons in your party of the same alignment to perform a super attack. The game brings back a lot of elements from the first two SMT games on the Super Famicom.

What I've always liked about the franchise is it';s dark tones and it's more objective look at idealism and human nature. The series has alignment systems but its not a Good, Evil, or Neutral. Instead its Order, Chaos, and Neutral but unlike titles like InFamous or Fable, the series never paints any of them as being good or evil. More like practical. Order wants to to bring order and stability to the world, even if it must do so by forcing everyone with violence. Chaos wants to bring true freedom, even if it means the world should be reduced to a Mad Max gang violence setting where might makes right. Neutral doesn't wish to side with either, but is ultimately the most selfish group that simply looks out for themselves. The games do a pretty good job of showing you have any of the ideologies can be used for both good or evil and thus one of the themes of the series is that its people rather than ideology that makes us good or evil. An ideology is only as good or evil as the people promoting it (you know, like the real world). Granted the series has its humor nd some of the games can be pretty campy so it's not all doom and gloom.

The main series pretty much plays like Pokemon - Meets 80s PC RPGs where its all about collecting awesome teams of demons, gods, and angles as well as your choices in the storyline. The spin-off series are that are most prominent (meaning you can probably find them and buy them) are Persona, Digital Devil Saga, Devil Survivor and Devil Summoner. These games are quite different from the main franchises though the themes of the occult and questioning humanities ideals and morality are still prominent in these titles. The main thing all three have over the main line Mega Ten games is that they are more character driven and have stronger story focus like Skyblade said.

Persona is basically SMT Lite, the early games still dealing with high school students battling demons but the common element that distinguishes the series is the power of Persona which are inner selves in the form of gods and mythic heroes that sleep inside every human. The series moves away from the religious and mythological elements of the SMT games and instead focus on Freudian and Jungian Psychology as the inspiration of their worlds. The first two games have some interesting battle systems, but also retain a lot of the SM formula where its sometimes more advantageous to talk to demons in order to get their aid. This franchise became the breakthrough hit with Persona 3, which married SMTIII's gameplay with dating/social sims to create a very unique JRPG experieince where you play as students who fight the forces of evil with Persona but still have to also balance it with their normal lives of school, work, friends, and relations. This was incredibly successful and P4 moved onto to expand on the social elements while trying to appease longtime fans by making the dungeon crawling section more like the first two Persona titles.

Digital Devil Saga is more like an atypical JRPG in terms of structure. Very story focused and it dropped the Mon System of demon summoning for a full cast of playable characters who turn into demons. It draws its story themes from both Hinduism and Buddhism. Characters have different skill trees that unlock new abilities though your character is limited in what abilities he can have equipped on at a time (think Materia meets Pokemon). The story is about five clans battling for the right to go to Nirvana, which only the sole surviving clan can be awarded. One day during a battle, the players party is in a battle over a mysterious object that crash landed. The device releases a strange light that transforms everyone into demons and the main characters devour most of the enemy unit. The contents of the device is a strange amnesic girl whose songs can curb peoples "hunger" but the party now has to face the fact that they must resort to cannibalism in order to keep their sanity and to survive because their new demonic powers call for it. This is reflected in battles as well as all characters can devour their weakened enemies (just like Quina! :quina: ) and doing so rewards you with more AP to go towards learning skills. The story is broken up into two games.

Devil Survivor is basically SMT as an SRPG series and is quite fun, even the plot is largely similar to the plot of the original Shin Megami Tensei up to a point. Devil Summoner, or at least the ones released in the west, are actually Action RPGs set in an alternate time 1920s Tokyo. You play an occult detective who summons demons to help him solve cases by doing things like help in battle, read peoples minds, scout the city and help track down perps. While I actually own both games, I am afraid I haven't had a chance to start them... :(

If you still want more details on the franchise and don't mind some spoilers, this is a wonderful website that details almost every entry in the franchise. (http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/megaten/megaten.htm)

[JKTrix]

I figured the MegaTen team would wait until the ten year mark like last time but I guess this is pretty close. :D
This year is the 25th anniversary of the series, so that's even better.

I remember when Strange Journey was supposed to be SMT 4, but they reneged that because it didn't take place in Japan.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yes, this thread hasn't had a post in three months but I don't see the point of making a new thread.

Anyway, Atlus just released an official trailer for Shin Megami Tensei IV (http://www.neoseeker.com/news/20812-shin-megami-tensei-4-trailer-bundled-with-devil-summoner-soul-hackers-released-online/)

[Bolivar]

I read about this meta series a few years ago when I considered jumping in to it, but I didn't know about all this. That's crazy.

[Wolf Kanno]

You should give it a whirl. ;)

[Polnareff]

Was excited until I found out it was on 3DS. It makes sense though, since the series hasn't necessarily been a series with a lot of production values. Well, at least not until Nocturne came out.

[Wolf Kanno]

Sadly, it's given me more reason to actually pick up a 3DS in the future, though I am waiting for an official U.S. release date which will probably be sometime next year, so I have time to wait and let the library get more good games so I don't feel as guilty with the purchase.