Agni's Philosophy

[Edge7]

This is awesome, let's talk about it. (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/06/e3-2012-square-enix-presents-the-lumines-engine)

[ShinGundam]

Yeah, it looks really cool. Here is survey about it : https://form.square-enix.com/a.p/933

I told them i liked MC but it would be nice to tune down shaky cam and arabs with AKs and combine classic fantasy with these visuals.

[Edge7]

I said I liked pretty much everything (especially the friggin' hyena), but I didn't like that Agni's essentially part of a cult where the leader wants their god to kill the Muslim terrorists outside. That's cause for discomfort.

[Mirage]

http://home.eyesonff.com/attachments/general-square-enix/36043d1338969377-agnis-philosophy-tumblr_m557ezyhil1qamrrg.jpg

I didn't dislike the arabs with the AKs at all. It was a cool magic vs technology thingie.

[Loony BoB]

Arabs? Muslims? What, did they use those words or something? Last I checked it was a fantasy world where neither of these two things exist. Also, something tells me the head dude was not exactly the good guy in all of this, even if the protagonist looked up to him on some level.

But the graphics, I mean, just... wow!

[Edge7]

Eh, the imagery just made me uncomfortable. People of a different religion (which only seems to have white members, from what we've seen)* commencing some sort of ritual to a god that involves them destroying their enemies, who happen to be of darker skin, and wear turbans wrapped around their head. I could be overreacting; I realize that I might be making harsh generalizations, but this is strictly from my observation. I guess it's that feeling you get when you have to ask yourself how seriously you should take something.



All things considered, it was still an amazing demo, and I would love to see this concept applied to an actual game. I'd probably buy this regardless of my personal suspicions; it looks interesting enough to warrant that much.

[Loony BoB]

Eh, the imagery just made me uncomfortable. People of a different religion (which only seems to have white members, from what we've seen)* commencing some sort of ritual to a god that involves them destroying their enemies, who happen to be of darker skin, and wear turbans wrapped around their head. I could be overreacting; I realize that I might be making harsh generalizations, but this is strictly from my observation. I guess it's that feeling you get when you have to ask yourself how seriously you should take something.
I would be far more worried if it were a bunch of people of darker skin, dressed similarly to Arabs, that were the ones wanting to "rain down destruction" on white skinned people. I think this is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[JKTrix]

Thanks for bringing this up, saved me a little bit of trouble!

[Mirage]

If anything, Edge7, this looks like a group of evil white people who attack poor dark people, and if you're playing the white main character, there would probably be some plot twist somewhere where the main character realizes she's been brainwashed into doing pretty mean stuff all along and perhaps changes sides.

[Jinx]

Brought to you buy Coca-Cola!

[Mirage]

But that's not what it said on the label.

[ShinGundam]

For techy people, dynamic beard rendering:
Square Enix Luminous Engine demo 2 iPhone - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9xhFpuIMX4)

[Freya]

Besides the actual plot nonsense everyone is already ranting about, this looks gorgeous!

[Edge7]

If anything, Edge7, this looks like a group of evil white people who attack poor dark people, and if you're playing the white main character, there would probably be some plot twist somewhere where the main character realizes she's been brainwashed into doing pretty mean stuff all along and perhaps changes sides.
I had figured as much, in fact, I was about to say that in my previous post, but I had decided I would be guessing way too much, especially from a concept trailer.

Watching it again, I feel like I have overreacted a tad, the setting would be a HUGE breath of fresh air for an RPG. I guess all I really mean is that if they're going with a Middle Eastern setting, and having the protagonist fight the locals, they might want to be delicate about it (not saying they aren't).

[chionos]

Frankly, I'm pretty sick of the magic vs. technology thing. Video games do such a horrible job of it. I want my sci-fi and my fantasy separate, at least as far as video games are concerned. That said, I'd get over it real quick to see more Agni.

[Loony BoB]

Fantasy+SciFi doesn't bother me massively, but what does bother me is the idea that everything in the distant future is perfect and clean. Midgar of VII is a far more intersting future than Eden of XIII. And people shouldn't wear stupid clothes like Tidus does. If they make it simple for style and clothing, then it works. Even VIII was okay (although Esthar was too clean for my liking). VII was great. XIII was enjoyable but the settings were just immaculate and I didn't like that.

[chionos]

Fantasy+SciFi doesn't bother me massively, but what does bother me is the idea that everything in the distant future is perfect and clean. Midgar of VII is a far more intersting future than Eden of XIII. And people shouldn't wear stupid clothes like Tidus does. If they make it simple for style and clothing, then it works. Even VIII was okay (although Esthar was too clean for my liking). VII was great. XIII was enjoyable but the settings were just immaculate and I didn't like that.

I can agree with that for the most part. Dirty is much more interesting (and believable). The early Phantasy Star games were kind of the ideal blending for me. A Firefly kind of aesthetics.

[silentenigma]

the feedback I left:

A step in the right direction. Feels considerably less melodramatic. World is more plausible; fantasy elements work best when limited. People will give many opinions of what they want to see, but be wary of reducing anything to a formula. If a project is backed by purposeful leadership, an honest vision, and a desire to make Art (rather than to target a demographic) then everything else will fall into place. That is what this company used to do, and that is what industry leaders are doing today.

[Rostum]

The tech behind this is absolutely incredible, I love it!

I'm also very interesting in the arabic-fantasy setting they have going, and I agree with silentenigma in that it feels much less melodramatic. Very much looking forward to this.

[Loony BoB]

Don't worry, the melodrama won't be too far away. ;) You just have to give it a bit of time, that's all.

[nirojan]

Wait when Nomura said they were using "Luminous" as the lighting engine for Versus XIII, he was talking about this engine? On IGN it said it was next-gen, but would be scalable to current gen with shader support, but nothing of integrating a portion of the lighting engine over to a game already built in Crystal Tools. Am I reading too much into this?

[Laddy]

This looks amazing. I want.

Is it weird that this trailer invoked so much emotion in me? But are we sure this is FFXV or just a tech demo? I have no reason to believe it's not the former, but still.

EDIT: I got the impression the "Arabesque" dudes were the good guys, which is an excellent and welcome change by changing up such an overplayed and nearing offensvie trope.

[sabin101]

I thought the trailer was just beautiful the colors and everything together was breathtaking. The old guys beard looked like it was real that stroke me the most. I wonder what other games square is working on with this new Luminous engine.

[Del Murder]

The video looked cool but cool videos are not why I play video games.

[Mirage]

I'm not sure how gameplay choices are relevant to the engine that the games run on.

This is a demonstration of technology they have developed. I'm not complaining about the lack of a chassis, seats and windows when someone is showcasing a new and better car engine.

[Del Murder]

How could you showcase a better car engine without the car?

[ShinGundam]

The video looked cool but cool videos are not why I play video games.
It is a general purpose engine could be used for RPGs or anything with a target of Direct X 11 level. It isn't similar to Source or Unreal where it is developed alongside with a game or focused on certain genre, so they don't have a choice but showing realtime events.

[Mercen-X]

I agree a grittier environment is a more believable future. Even in an alternate reality, any being related to humans will never be able to produce a truly "clean" environment. Besides, in such an environment, where then would be the need to fight battles? Wouldn't it all be serenity..?

I was curious about that soda bottle. Did she use magic to turn it into a potion? I suppose in this environment, they don't really have potions available like in the good ol' days.

Hey about Nomura... Monty Oum started making Dead Fantasy videos on YouTube and highly advertised 6/7/8 and we have yet to see them. Then Nomura shell's out Kingdom Hearts and promises us Versus XIII... are we being played?

[Wolf Kanno]

I like the fact the video doesn't have any of the over the top wire-fu of the last few FF projects. Makes the moments where you see magic and monsters stand out more and seem more wonderous than when you've got people cutting buildings in half and cartwheeling into a group of thirty soldiers and watching them get utterly destroyed.

The world premise is also interesting, reminiscent of FFVIII's design with a mix of some sci-fi buildings and realistic modern building structures like the shanty town the video takes place in. I really loved the scene where she enchants the water to make it into a potion and you watch her restore herself. It's probably my favorite scene in the video.

[DMKA]

It's a beautiful tech demo, but it's just that; a tech demo. Square Enix claims it's real time footage, as in, that's what a game developed with this engine is supposed to look likein game while playing. I find that concept orgasmic, but I refuse to believe it until I see it. Tech demos, and their developers, have a way of stretching the truth.

Also, aside of a magic Crystal, I don't see what this has to do with Final Fantasy. Unless that thing she drank was supposed to be a potion.

I hope this means they really are working on FFXV or at least throwing around ideas for it. As much as I love the Fabula Nova Crystallis thing, I would like to see a new FF with an entirely new story, world, cast of characters, and battle system sometime soon, that isn't an MMO, rhythm game, fighting game, etc. Or they could just release Versus, that would make me happy too. :p

[Mirage]

Actually, there is proof of this being real-time. There is another video out there where the developers are messing around with the tools of the engine and making changes to the demo in real time, such as changing the style of that old man's beard, and the color of the cult leader's beard, then continuing the demo at full speed with the new changes just a second later.

As for a personal bit of guesswork, I'm going to guess that this demo can run at 30fps on two of three GTX680 cards. Remember that the resolution of the demo doesn't looks like more than 1280x720, which is a very modest resolution for video cards like GTX680. Increasing the resolution from 720p to 1080p in that youtube window gave me no discernable change, and I have a pretty good eye for that sort of stuff.

[Loony BoB]

Aye, when they started moving the camera angle manually during the other video my mind was blown. xD

As for what it has to do with FF - not too much, although I'm fairly certain it was stated at some point that they wanted to give an FF theme/feel to the tech demo, which I personally think they did successfully. Being shot at by soldiers while you control someone who relies on magic, has healing abilities, carries around a crystal and does a summoning. Meanwhile the soldiers who were shooting at you unleash one of their super-dogs, which is a common thing amongst FF enemies (soldiers and monsters working side-by-side, often dogs). And then there's the whole thing with starting off in the slums and then having the wonderous revelation of the rest of the high-technology world.