"This is cool."

[Jiro]

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Despite the SUPER COMPELLING way Cloud delivers that line, he does seem to be quite impressed by the Tiny Bronco. Were there any particular moments where you were like "wow this is cool" or did you have any experiences where you found the party's enthusiasm or lack thereof to be understandable or stupid?

I feel like Cid and his whole "space is awesome" thing to be very understandable. I find the lack of confusion at Cloud's surviving the fall into the Church to be very confusing. I mean, it's briefly touched on but more as a "yeah and this is Aeris" more than a "yeah and I don't fucking know how I defied all logic like that".

Discuss w/e really.

[Jinx]

The flowers broke his fall.


So, seriously, Avalanche just throws a rope over the side of Midgar and climbs down? Wtf?

[Jiro]

They build it up with such powerful words and then just hop on down and start jaunting around no big deal. Lost all sense of majesty and epic journey then. Even seeing the world map for the first time just kind of falls flat there.

I've fallen into flowers before. Not nearly from the same height, but suffice to say that he's probably going to be a little bruised if not dead.

[Jinx]

Yeah, right? You leave Midgar. "Wow, I'm about to start an epic journey!" And you go to the Kalm.

THE smurfING KALM

AND WATCH A smurfING HOUR LONG FLASHBACK

then chocobo ranch


Wow guys, this game is so cool.

[Cloudane]

The whole church falling scene was confusing. Because of poor translation, I think.

"Ooh! It moved! Hello! Hello! Back then you could get by with just grazed knees." WHAT IS GOING ON?

And then "it suddenly fell on top of me" - what, the church? You just got a church on your head? I think she meant Cloud. I never really understood.


As for "this is cool", Bugen's planetarium. Whee!

[Sephex]

I often wondered if the people responsible for rating games bothered to play through the Honey Bee Inn sequence because one room has implied Cloud groping while the other room has implied Cloud...poking.

[Slothy]

I often wondered if the people responsible for rating games bothered to play through the Honey Bee Inn sequence because one room has implied Cloud groping while the other room has implied Cloud...poking.

Ha! I get more of a kick out of that description than I probably should.

Yeah, I never really understood the whole church fall. It makes more sense that the roof and rafters are what broke his fall, but that would have left him more broken. I guess we'll have to chalk it up to being a failed super soldier.

And Kalm was a pretty bad way to start an epic journey. At least it picks up after you get past the Marsh.

I also always found it a bit weird that Tifa never speaks up about Cloud's false memories. I know they try to explain it away, but let's get real here. You're about to embark on a dangerous journey to save the planet, fighting monsters, robots, mega-corporations, super weapons, and a long thought dead super soldier along the way. The journey takes you across oceans, through deserts, canyons and arctic tundra, and even into space, and at no point does it really occur to her to mention that the man they've chosen to lead them doesn't remember what happened in Nibelheim 5 years ago, as far as you know he wasn't even there, and there's a good chance the fucker is crazy. Childhood friend or not, lives are on the line. And even after he goes crazy for a while, he just puts his mind back together and everything's good.

No, everything is not good. You're a crazy motherfucker and you're not leading the team anymore.

[krissy]

From Tifa's point of view, Cloud was not there (as we don't find out that Cloud was really one of the grunts in the background until later in the game). The fact that Cloud was able to recite the incident accurately shut her up because she was presumably in shock or just stunned; questioning her own perception of the events - as she herself was seriously injured by Sephiroth at the reactor.


plus the fact that while she was injured and likely going in and out of consciousness, she might have gotten a glimpse of Cloud (without his mask) trying to help her. Given her condition at the time, her own memory of those events at the reactor probably aren't the clearest. So her own foggy memories, which likely include a glimpse of Cloud, probably help to inject a little bit of doubt and confusion (along with the fact that she'd be wondering how Cloud could have known so much about what happened if he wasn't there), and so she may have wondered if she was the one who was wrong about what happened.

[Wolf Kanno]

^ So basically the writers pulled it out of their ass because they wanted to keep the whole "Cloud is not Cloud" plot twist. No it really doesn't make sense even in that context cause she could have talked about it with Cloud, or mentioned to Barret at least that something was wrong (there is apparently a deleted set of dialogue in the code that suggests a scene was planned but later scrapped), seeing how long the journey was going. It makes sense to shut her up initially but after awhile, you would have thought she would have really been more outspoken about it as the journey dragged on. Her memories are hazy at the actual incident of Sephy burning the place down, she can't blame that for forgetting everything else before it. Not to mention all the times she alludes to Zack being there if you make sure to bring her to certain events, meaning she does know there is a huge flaw in Cloud's story, since we're missing a dude that Aerith confirms is real and only Cloud seems to not know about. As well as the fact she damn well knows that when she found him, he was a drooling mental case on the street who started to get better as she talked to him, which is why she made him join AVALANCHE in the first place because she knew something was wrong. I mean the little miss fan-service chick is even forgetting important things that happened before everything got really weird. Nah, the writers just wanted to smurf the player with the twist and went out of their way to downplay Tifa's involvement, which is only made sillier since the real revelation is that he was there, and the whole "Cloud is a clone" was just there to egg the player on and give Cloud some more trauma.

For awesome moments, I felt the team did a pretty good job of having reasonable wonder at them. For the "seriously, wtf?" moments, I would argue it's Rufus, with his huge fleet of helicopters, transport ships, and airships; still feels it's necessary to take an old airplane to help search for Sephiroth. It's less logical and more just showing how much of a selfish, childish, irredeemable jerk Rufus is who doesn't want anyone else to have toys but him. I also kind of wish the party had a reaction to watching Vincent go into limit break. I was totally expecting a scene like Terra using magic for the first time around Locke and Edgar. Oh yes, also the whole "Hey, Shin-ra's trying to collect Big Materia to stop Meteor, let's go stop them cause we remembered after 40 hours that we are an environmental themed terrorist organization who loves the Planet more than the Planet..." wait what?! :D

[Slothy]

Oh yes, also the whole "Hey, Shin-ra's trying to collect Big Materia to stop Meteor, let's go stop them cause we remembered after 40 hours that we are an environmental themed terrorist organization who loves the Planet more than the Planet..." wait what?! :D

That one was pretty good.

"Hey, Shinra is planning to launch a rocket loaded up with giant pieces of materia to destroy Meteor. We have to stop them!"

"Why?"

"Because they're Shinra and therefore evil obviously."

Right... Wouldn't want to let them try their plan with materia they already have in case we fail. No no, let's stop them so there's absolutely no backup plan especially when we don't even know our plan will actually work because it relies on the assumption that a dead ancient managed to summon some mythical magical spell before getting skewered.

[Sephex]

For awesome moments, I felt the team did a pretty good job of having reasonable wonder at them. For the "seriously, wtf?" moments, I would argue it's Rufus, with his huge fleet of helicopters, transport ships, and airships; still feels it's necessary to take an old airplane to help search for Sephiroth. It's less logical and more just showing how much of a selfish, childish, irredeemable jerk Rufus is who doesn't want anyone else to have toys but him. I also kind of wish the party had a reaction to watching Vincent go into limit break. I was totally expecting a scene like Terra using magic for the first time around Locke and Edgar. Oh yes, also the whole "Hey, Shin-ra's trying to collect Big Materia to stop Meteor, let's go stop them cause we remembered after 40 hours that we are an environmental themed terrorist organization who loves the Planet more than the Planet..." wait what?! :D

Thank you for helping me remember that. Surprised I didn't think of it in the first place. I have always had a problem on why Rufus wanted the Tiny Bronco so bad. I would have been fine if they addressed it by adding something like, "While we do have easy access to transportation, we need a civilian looking plane that can move pretty fast to complete our goal! Also, it is the perfect disguise if Sephiroth spots the plane, so he won't think the Shinra is following him!"

Two lines of dialogue Square! THAT'S ALL YOU NEEDED!

[Jiro]

I know AVALANCHE is meant to be all about eco terrorism and all of that business but the party really needs to stop for a second and realise they're putting their faith in a (dead) girl who let herself get stabbed in the back by Sephiroth. Surely you have to question the sanity of such a person. Though with Cloud at the helm, it really does explain a lot. Sephiroth is the real hero of FFVII for ensuring we didn't have to endure the inevitable retarded children Cloud and Aeris would have birthed.

Unless

that kid is Shuyin

who grows up to inspire Tidus

in some alternate smurfed up Square-is-trying-to-turn-a-profit time line

nah that's just the alcohol talking, fuck all that noise

[Sephex]

I know AVALANCHE is meant to be all about eco terrorism and all of that business but the party really needs to stop for a second and realise they're putting their faith in a (dead) girl who let herself get stabbed in the back by Sephiroth. Surely you have to question the sanity of such a person. Though with Cloud at the helm, it really does explain a lot. Sephiroth is the real hero of FFVII for ensuring we didn't have to endure the inevitable retarded children Cloud and Aeris would have birthed.

Unless

that kid is Shuyin

who grows up to inspire Tidus

in some alternate smurfed up Square-is-trying-to-turn-a-profit time line

nah that's just the alcohol talking, fuck all that noise

No, dude! It's true! In FFX-2 the character named Shinra talked about harnessing the planet's energy for better living! FFX and FFX-2 is totally a prequel to FFVII! Yeah!

[krissy]

in ff9 zidane talks about remembering a guy who had a big sword like the one in the alexandrian marketplace

do you

do you guys think

these games are somehow connected? like, it's almost as if the same production studio worked on them? whoaa...

[Sephex]

in ff9 zidane talks about remembering a guy who had a big sword like the one in the alexandrian marketplace

do you

do you guys think

these games are somehow connected? like, it's almost as if the same production studio worked on them? whoaa...

I think we're onto something. Let's all e-mail Square-Enix 500 times a day until some intern replies to one of us posing as a higher up in the company. Then let's all believe it! We can do it--GameFAQs style, baby!

[ReloadPsi]

I often wondered if the people responsible for rating games bothered to play through the Honey Bee Inn sequence because one room has implied Cloud groping while the other room has implied Cloud...poking.

And people want this game remade in modern graphics. Something they're not telling us?

I always tried to get Cait Sith to be the one to vocalise his reactions to the planetarium but it seems he's the one character who has no lines in it.

[Sephex]

I often wondered if the people responsible for rating games bothered to play through the Honey Bee Inn sequence because one room has implied Cloud groping while the other room has implied Cloud...poking.

And people want this game remade in modern graphics. Something they're not telling us?



Yup. This is one of the reasons I personally think they are afraid to do the remake.

[ReloadPsi]

Incidentally the guy who originally brought that to my attention was openly gay. I imagine he wouldn't have minded, but he brought it up out of concern for those who would be less willing to see it :3

[Wolf Kanno]

I know AVALANCHE is meant to be all about eco terrorism and all of that business but the party really needs to stop for a second and realise they're putting their faith in a (dead) girl who let herself get stabbed in the back by Sephiroth. Surely you have to question the sanity of such a person. Though with Cloud at the helm, it really does explain a lot. Sephiroth is the real hero of FFVII for ensuring we didn't have to endure the inevitable retarded children Cloud and Aeris would have birthed.

Unless

that kid is Shuyin

who grows up to inspire Tidus

in some alternate smurfed up Square-is-trying-to-turn-a-profit time line

nah that's just the alcohol talking, smurf all that noise



Oh yes, also the whole "Hey, Shin-ra's trying to collect Big Materia to stop Meteor, let's go stop them cause we remembered after 40 hours that we are an environmental themed terrorist organization who loves the Planet more than the Planet..." wait what?! :D

That one was pretty good.

"Hey, Shinra is planning to launch a rocket loaded up with giant pieces of materia to destroy Meteor. We have to stop them!"

"Why?"

"Because they're Shinra and therefore evil obviously."

Right... Wouldn't want to let them try their plan with materia they already have in case we fail. No no, let's stop them so there's absolutely no backup plan especially when we don't even know our plan will actually work because it relies on the assumption that a dead ancient managed to summon some mythical magical spell before getting skewered.

Actually, they didn't even know about Holy at the point they started doing this. Barret and Cid basically start the whole mission to stop Shin-Ra while Cloud was in "It's Zenogias" mode. So, it's much worse than them basically fighting for their plan. They didn't even have a plan, they just didn't want to give Shin-Ra the satisfaction of trying to save the world.

[ReloadPsi]

Actually, they didn't even know about Holy at the point they started doing this. Barret and Cid basically start the whole mission to stop Shin-Ra while Cloud was in "It's Zenogias" mode. So, it's much worse than them basically fighting for their plan. They didn't even have a plan, they just didn't want to give Shin-Ra the satisfaction of trying to save the world.

I seem to remember it was because Cloud says that it would be disrespectful to the Materia or something crazy like that; I don't remember the exact dialogue but it has to do with the generations of ancient knowledge that's stored in the Huge Materia, and how they don't have the right to blow it up like that. Also Cid just wanted to get into space, even if it was just for a few minutes.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yes, but both reasoning's you give happen after you get Cloud back, so you should have two of the Huge Materia by then, and likewise, I feel the dangerous power of the Ancients is a small sacrifice to pay for saving the planet. The party only saves face because the player eventually learns that the Shin-Ra's plan will fail no matter what, but that doesn't really stop the player from realizing the party has no good reason to interfere with the plan initially. It would have worked better if the party dealt with Bugenhagen first and had the whole "Only Holy can stop Meteor" spiel, but that doesn't happen until after the party returns from space with the last of the Huge Materia. Even more comical, is how disappointed the party sounds when they watch the Shin-Ra's plan fail.

[Jiro]

Yeah, that's a really good point. So our heroes are actually just a bunch of dicks with ego problems and can't let anybody else do anything positive. Man, I almost expect them to like, flip out when Sister Ray is built. It's like they want to tear it down and build one themselves just so they can have the credit.

Speaking of Sister Ray, firing that at Diamond Weapon was pretty baller.