Are jiggle physics sexist?

[Mirage]

I am serious cat, and this is serious thread

Is the simulation of gravity and inertia's effect on breasts sexist to include in games? Please try to keep this point separated from the fact that games that include jiggle physics also often coincide with games that do not give women the best wardrobe selection. We can leave that discussion for sometime later.

I realize that many games greatly exaggerate how much bounciness there is to be found in breasts, and that in most action-filled situations, women would wear garment that prevents their boobs from bouncing all over the place, but that aside, is it *really* bad that a game that happens to feature a female with rather big breasts also makes her breasts move in a realistic manner? I mean, if you saw a female in real life with big breasts run somewhere, wouldn't it seem kind of weird of her breast moved as if they were made out of hard plastic?

So, realistic breast physics, on girls with reasonable breast sizes and that wears clothes that provide decent amounts of support. Are they bad to include in a game? If so, why?

As a side note, I wouldn't want to stop there. For the "ultimate" realistic physics in a game, I would like to see all human tissue have this sort of physics applied to them. If you've ever seen a person run in slow-motion, it is pretty clear that gravity and inertia has a pretty clear effect on all big lumps of soft tissue. Huge muscles on a man are no exception to this, nor are thighs, who exhibit ripple-effects on each impact the foot makes with the ground. However, we do not have the required computational power in gaming hardware today to simulate physics for every part of the human body, so it makes sense to start with the areas of the human body who sees the biggest effect, which are female breasts.

[Shiny]

I don't play games with jiggle physics so I don't care.

The group of people who do play games with jiggle physics: immature men

[Mirage]

False. There are many men and women who play games with jiggle physics in them, probably for other reasons than the jiggle physics. Please try to stay on topic.

[Shiny]

I am on topic.

Show me women who play them. Do they have Beiber haircuts? Gotta be weary.

[Bunny]

The group of people who do play games with jiggle physics: immature men

Why does playing a game that includes jiggle physics make a person immature? What is the grounds for this? Wouldn't it be far more accurate (but still fairly wrong) to say that to people who make games with jiggle physics are immature?

World of Warcraft has jiggle physics, I know several women who play it. League of Legends has jiggle physics, I know several women who play it. The most frequent video game genre that includes jiggle physics is the fighting game genre. And, again, I know several women who play those.

Just because something offends a person, or a group of people, does not make that something sexist, racist, or any of the other buzzwords that people like to throw around these days. This thread is full of silliness.

[chionos]

For me it's an issue of intention. If a game's trying to be as realistic as possible, then of course it's okay. If the game is using the mechanic to give a game sex appeal, then it's just silly. I don't know if it's wrong per se, but it's infantile and meaningless. If that's the intention, then yes, it would be sexist, simply by definition.

As an aside of sorts, this reminds me of the running scene in Juno. Oddly, it's hard to think of the movie's closeup of Michael Cera's bouncing junk as sexist, which is, at least partly, the point I think.

The weight (of history) behind the portrayal of bouncing breasts in the media makes it very difficult to not see bouncing breasts as sexist. The trope is used to define women as sexual objects (and in parallel to define men as perverts).

Just probing here, there's not really an analogue to bouncing breasts, is there? I mean, the bouncing genitals in Juno is about the closest thing I can think of. Perhaps the pitched-tent-boner ala Blink 182's Maybe I'm Just Retarded (I think that's the video) or Ace Ventura 2 or Robin Hood Men in Tights, but interestingly enough, the boner is used almost exclusively in a humorous manner, so what does that say? I'm not being rhetorical because I don't know, really.

I'm trying to think of any game I've played that portrays physically realistic breast movement that doesn't use it just to sexualize the female form. Did you have any particular game in mind, Mirage?

[NorthernChaosGod]

I am on topic.

Show me women who play them. Do they have Beiber haircuts? Gotta be weary.

I know several girls that play the Dead or Alive games and like them enough to dress up as the characters. None of them are lesbians.

[chionos]

I am on topic.

Show me women who play them. Do they have Beiber haircuts? Gotta be weary.

I know several girls that play the Dead or Alive games and like them enough to dress up as the characters. None of them are lesbians.

Well yeah, statistically that wouldn't be very likely. How many lesbian whores are there in the world?

[Quindiana Jones]

I am on topic.

Show me women who play them. Do they have Beiber haircuts? Gotta be weary.

I know several girls that play the Dead or Alive games and like them enough to dress up as the characters. None of them are lesbians.

WHAT.

[Wolf Kanno]

For me it's an issue of intention. If a game's trying to be as realistic as possible, then of course it's okay. If the game is using the mechanic to give a game sex appeal, then it's just silly. I don't know if it's wrong per se, but it's infantile and meaningless. If that's the intention, then yes, it would be sexist, simply by definition.


^This is my thought, if it's for the sake of realism like say in Heavy Rain, it's fine, but when you are playing DoA Beach Volley Ball it definetly seems a little tasteless, granted a lot of games that have exaggerated bounce tend to be a bit more tongue in cheek as well so I feel it can fall into the "Boner humor" analogy chionos gave. It definetly is something I would take as a case by case judgement, based on intention.

A good example of using guy physilogy for humor would be No More Heroes, which blatantly links Travis Touchdown's beam saber with his penis. He practically has to masturbate to keep the thing recharged (motion controls never felt so dirty), so I would say this is kind of a degrading of men, but it's also played for laughs, and Travis is kind of a satire on the top of person who gets off on jiggly physics.

This reminds me of one of the things that annoyed me about Xenoblade Chronicles. The animation team doesn't bother doing much with the characters faces when they are in the normal in-game engine dialogue scenes, but they made damn sure the jiggle physics were implemented throughout the game. So you would have scenes where the character would be talking and their facial expressions (minus Riki whose face is kind of 2D animated) are the same throughout, but every damn time one of the girls (usually Sharla) moved, you're periphial vision would catch how "bouncy" she was. It just seemed like the design team had some poor priorities in animating the characters.

[ReloadPsi]

I think they're more sad and creepy than anything else.

Anyone who gets off to CGI titties either has problems or a really odd fetish.

Sorry, I was just one of those people who never got over people thinking Lara was sexy in the original Tomb Raider.

[Shiny]

I am on topic.

Show me women who play them. Do they have Beiber haircuts? Gotta be weary.

I know several girls that play the Dead or Alive games and like them enough to dress up as the characters. None of them are lesbians.

WHAT.
LMAO ... anyway

I played DOA once now that I recall. It was okay though let's be serious if you bought the game knowing it was gonna have some jiggly titties in it, then you're a bit immature. There's plenty of good, and some would say better fighting games then DOA out there without that content. Game makers may be immature too, but they're smart. They know people likes titties in motion especially single men sitting in their rooms all day playing video games with zits, eye crust, and mountain dew sugar high. So I give them props for knowing their market group.

Also didn't know that WoW had jiggle tits. Not that I would because I don't play it. Also, could give a shit less. I have no problem with the jiggle tits. If it makes other people happy then so be it. Not for me though. I already have breasts and I can make them jiggle whenever I want. Don't need a video game for it. :monster:

[Rantz]

Jiggle physics aren't sexist. Adding jiggle physics to increase the sex appeal of female characters is - at least if you don't spend similar effort on male characters. Some might say it's not sexist but rather just business/knowing your target audience, but the latter doesn't exclude the former.

And buying a game knowing it has jiggle physics definitely doesn't mean you're immature. Buying a game because it has jiggle physics might. But that depends on how you define maturity (is it that immature to indulge your sex drive? but that's another topic).

[Mirage]

Soul calibur and Street Fighter (4 and onwards) has jiggle physics too. The (arguably) second best fighter in the world for SC5 is a french girl (she's a DoA player too btw!), and i'm pretty sure she knew the latest installment in the series would have jiggle physics, considering the series have had them since SC2.

I'm not sure if Tekken 6 have them, I would have to check.


Personally, I do not buy games based on them having jiggle physics or not, but I do think that the more realistic graphics get, the more obvious does it get that certain body parts/features move in certain ways during movement. This includes, but is not limited to breast physics. I don't even think much about their inclusion when they are in my games, but whenever a game with a lot of character movement comes around and doesn't have such physics, I notice it as being kind of strange.

Other examples are for example hair flowing naturally over someone's shoulders. It doesn't matter how awesomely good looking someone's hair texture is if it moves as if it was made out of metal strings. Likewise, if you are designing a good looking woman in a game and her character model has a high degree of realism, it would look odd if everything but her breasts moved in a realistic manner. At the same time, I don't think the clothes given to the women of many such games are very nice. It would be cool if someone made a game with such physics that didn't do their best to show off as much skin as they possibly could get away with.

As I said, ideally, every body part for both males and females should have realistic physics applied to them, but while we're limited in resources, the most obvious parts naturally come first.

[KentaRawr!]

I am on topic.

Show me women who play them. Do they have Beiber haircuts? Gotta be weary.

Soul Calibur.

'Nuff said.

But also worth mentioning is that Soul Calibur's jiggle physics apply to both men and women.

Edit: And that's what I get for not reading the thread first. lol Whoops

[Mirage]

Well as far as I known, only astaroth's massive chest muscles are affected by jiggle physics, and that was only in soul calibur three.

There are however pretty fanservice-ish male characters there too, at least for women who like guys who are a bit muscly. Algol fights in like... a loincloth, and that's all.

-edit-
Apparently I was wrong, he wears a... cape (?) too!

36269

[edczxcvbnm]

To even the score they should have guys in speedos with realistic sack physics...and of course it is mandatory to blast LMFAO nonstop while anyone is playing as said character. If you are going to be stupid about it the be stupid all the way!

[Jessweeee♪]

I'm not sure if Tekken 6 have them, I would have to check.

I know Tekken 5 did. I was gonna give Anna her witch get-up and then when I rotated the model it was all jigglejigglejiggle.

[Sephex]

To even the score they should have guys in speedos with realistic sack physics...and of course it is mandatory to blast LMFAO nonstop while anyone is playing as said character. If you are going to be stupid about it the be stupid all the way!

I like this idea. edczxcvbnm, you should be hired by the scar face Dead or Alive man!

Anyway, on topic, jiggle physics is horribly sexist, but as long as mainstream games of certain types are marketed to teen males, it won't go away any time soon.

[krissy]

i downloaded the first dead or alive just to see this in action
i was disappointed and went back to real porn

[NorthernChaosGod]

I am on topic.

Show me women who play them. Do they have Beiber haircuts? Gotta be weary.

I know several girls that play the Dead or Alive games and like them enough to dress up as the characters. None of them are lesbians.

WHAT.
LMAO ... anyway

I played DOA once now that I recall. It was okay though let's be serious if you bought the game knowing it was gonna have some jiggly titties in it, then you're a bit immature. There's plenty of good, and some would say better fighting games then DOA out there without that content. Game makers may be immature too, but they're smart. They know people likes titties in motion especially single men sitting in their rooms all day playing video games with zits, eye crust, and mountain dew sugar high. So I give them props for knowing their market group.

Also didn't know that WoW had jiggle tits. Not that I would because I don't play it. Also, could give a shit less. I have no problem with the jiggle tits. If it makes other people happy then so be it. Not for me though. I already have breasts and I can make them jiggle whenever I want. Don't need a video game for it. :monster:
I hardly think the quality of the fighter is the issue here. None of the girls I know like video games all that much to play some of the more hardcore fighters, they probably just like the button mashers.

[KentaRawr!]

The problem is really just that developers are objectifying woman's body for shallow entertainment. It kinda detracts from the other parts of the game to know that the developers deliberately went in to make sure a character's boobs wobbled in a way dudes might find attractive. And it's not really made better when the fanservice goes both ways, in my opinion. Shallow is shallow.

But I'll just shush. :X

[Mirage]

To even the score they should have guys in speedos with realistic sack physics...and of course it is mandatory to blast LMFAO nonstop while anyone is playing as said character. If you are going to be stupid about it the be stupid all the way!

I like this idea. edczxcvbnm, you should be hired by the scar face Dead or Alive man!

Anyway, on topic, jiggle physics is horribly sexist, but as long as mainstream games of certain types are marketed to teen males, it won't go away any time soon.

But why are they?

And I agree that if you have a guy in a speedo, his bulge should have jiggle physics too. However, see my above comment about limited hardware resources. You start with what's most noticable.

[blackmage_nuke]

It's not ALWAYS sexist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKU1Lrs1ApA&feature=related)

[Sephex]

To even the score they should have guys in speedos with realistic sack physics...and of course it is mandatory to blast LMFAO nonstop while anyone is playing as said character. If you are going to be stupid about it the be stupid all the way!

I like this idea. edczxcvbnm, you should be hired by the scar face Dead or Alive man!

Anyway, on topic, jiggle physics is horribly sexist, but as long as mainstream games of certain types are marketed to teen males, it won't go away any time soon.

But why are they?

And I agree that if you have a guy in a speedo, his bulge should have jiggle physics too. However, see my above comment about limited hardware resources. You start with what's most noticable.

But why? Because most females have mad bust and are unrealistically proportioned.

[Bunny]

That's a pretty horrible and ill-informed argument.

[Mirage]

Did you even read what I'm saying? Female characters not getting decent clothes, and being given unrealistically large breasts is an entirely different discussion, and I have several times stated that I think this is regrettable. It is however not necessarily related to jiggle physics, even if the two often coincide.

Also, I meant to include this earlier but I forgot.


I am on topic.

Show me women who play them. Do they have Beiber haircuts? Gotta be weary.
My girlfriend.

What's this? A male who isn't single and still play games that have jiggle physics, and his girlfriend even play them herself? Unpossible!

[Sephex]

That's a pretty horrible and ill-informed argument.

How? Not all, but most women in video games are designed that way. I'm not trying to be Mr. Moral Man and be all upset about it. I just recognize it. Most women in video games are unrealistically designed. So are most men, sure. However, most mainsteam games are deisgned for dudes in their teens/early adults.

EDIT: I am not even that emotionally invested in this "argument." It's kind of strange that people are reacting so harshly to this.

[Mirage]

Well, I am more interested in the argument itself (that's why I made the thread in the first place), than how much of an emotional investment you personally have in the argument you made.

If it's a good argument, it's a good argument. If it's a bad argument, it's a bad argument. If you don't care either way, why make a post at all?

[Sephex]

Well, I am more interested in the argument itself (that's why I made the thread in the first place), than how much of an emotional investment you personally have in the argument you made.

If it's a good argument, it's a good argument. If it's a bad argument, it's a bad argument. If you don't care either way, why make a post at all?

It's just odd to me. I was just posting my opinion on the subject. I wasn't trying to be argumentative. That's what I meant. Again, I am not saying this is a big deal to me, but from what I have noticed, a lot of video games are catered towards young males. If you want me to tie into jiggle physics, fine. Jiggle physics are catered towards males too. I am not saying this is wrong or right. I am saying that's why things like that are included in games sometimes.

[Madonna]

Jiggle physics are not sexist, but their most common usage in video games is. People demand games with lots of realism, so I am told, and people bounce, jiggle, and sway in real life, so yeah, people develop games with engines to capture that. This is fine. What is not fine is the immediate leap from "We can make things jiggle" to "BOOBS". Yes, breasts are definitely affected by motion, and one can concede perhaps bosoms are easily observed out of a great deal of things affected by inertia, but making video game characters with large breasts and impractical outfits which show off said breasts being affected by your great physics engine is sexist.

[Pike]

Also didn't know that WoW had jiggle tits.

Oh man WoW's jiggle tits weren't even jiggly, they were just... bouncing up and down and up and down and up and down like they were about to detach wherever your female dorf or undead went even though they were supposed to be wearing armor or whatever. It bugged me because it looked ridiculous. I guess they don't have the chain-link sports bra in Azeroth.

I don't notice it in other games, but then again 90% of what I play are map painting simulators so :monster:

[DMKA]

If it's done right, you probably won't notice it.

The Resident Evil REmake for GameCube, for example, had jiggle physics, but it had to be pointed out to me, and all my response was was "WOW THIS GAME'S GRAPHICS ARE AMAZING!"

Boobs jiggle in real life, boobs should jiggle within reason in games, if they're done right. But games like Azura's Wrath take the jiggling to a laughable level. The girls in that game look like they have tops full of jello.

But then, the exaggerated boobage is the least of that game's problems.

[Shlup]

I am on topic.

Show me women who play them. Do they have Beiber haircuts? Gotta be weary.

I love Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball. Especially the jumping mini-game. Soul Calibur is my favorite fighting series too, after Smash Bros (obviously, I mean Jigglypuff).

It's not the jiggle physics that are sexist, it's that every lady has massive titties. Boobs jiggle, that's just how they're made, but they are not that big on a girl that small except in very rare and back-breaking cases.

[DMKA]

It's not the jiggle physics that are sexist, it's that every lady has massive titties. Boobs jiggle, that's just how they're made, but they are not that big on a girl that small except in very rare and back-breaking cases.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwiwq12Wfe1qhp98t.jpg

[Mirage]

Oh hey i've seen that anime!

[Bunny]

Is she a giant or is that man a Borrower?

[Mirage]

I don't think that actually happens in the anime's... story, if you can call it that. It's some sort of exaggeration or something that only lasts for a single short scene.

[KentaRawr!]

Hah, Eiken. The epitome of shallow anime. :P There was this other show I expected to be just as shallow, but I was pleasantly surprised when it was actually kind of sweet. I think it's called Tonagura?

Oh hey, despite that being totally off-topic it can be fit in pretty well! See, in Tonagura, despite there being a really cute love story, it was also using the ridiculous bust of one of the main characters to promote itself. The promotional art for the show (at least, from what I remember) very often accentuated that character's chest, despite her not really being the focus of the show when you actually watch it (let alone her boobies). That's kind of a similar problem to what we have here, right? Games can be appreciated for lots of things, but oftentimes the sex appeal of a character is used to promote the game itself, and it's very rare (at least from what I've seen) for that fanservice character to be a dude. That's why it's sexist.

But yeah I should probably shush. I'm being silly. :X