The Game Development Thread

[Slothy]

So there was a thread Pike made over a month ago now about who among us had tried making games before. It turns out it was quite a few who have or who presently are making the attempt. In that thread I also said this to Psi:



Does anyone suppose there's enough interest for an indie game development subforum?

I wish. There's certainly enough people who've made or are making the attempt, but how much you want to bet the apathy would creep in a week later and such a subforum was left deader than the video game music section?

You know what? I'd like to see me eat my words on at least some level since that visual is hilarious. So let's start a thread on video game development. Is anyone working on something now? Is anyone interested in starting a project? Let's talk about this stuff because it tickles my fancy.

Since that thread I had something of an epiphany. I was going to learn C then move on to Game Maker for my first project. Then I realized I'd rather make a game now so why not just jump into Game Maker now? So I did. I've been working through some tutorials to learn it. This (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3251.0) is a stellar one to start with if you're new to Game Maker, and it even covers some programming basics in the Game Maker programming language the engine uses so it's good for getting your feet wet in programming conventions should you move onto full blown computer programming later. Some of the stuff in part 4 doesn't work in the lite version though. Luckily it's just adding a sprite font so you can still dabble in adding the standard fonts for HUD's and stuff.

I'm starting my first project now which is a sort of point and click style horror game about an agoraphobic man alone in his house over the course of a week which starts with him getting a phone call with the cryptic message "She's waiting for you..." As you would expect things swiftly go downhill for him from there. And it's point and click in overall style only. I'm actually planning to use a top down RPG style view with a Resident Evil style inventory system where you'll need to pick up, examine, and combine items to progress elements of the story. Actually, I guess it will be more of a top down Resident Evil minus the combat and more psychological then. Don't worry though, no limited inventory slots and bottomless item boxes here. I've got the overall plot outlined in my head and a bit on paper. For now I'm going to work on the art style, get the sprite graphics done, while I work on getting things like the inventory and interactions working so I can start building the game itself and the puzzles.

I'm really excited to get this project started as I think the scope is something I can manage on my own over the next few months, and I think I already know enough about Game Maker to really hit the ground running on this. I'd like to see what others are working on too though, or see what they start working on if anyone gets the itch from this.

[Mercen-X]

I feel like I'm the only one among us actually willing to delve into such a thread. Next in line, if not busy with work which he usually is, BG-57, from whom I've not heard in a couple of months. After that, probably Magixion, as he and NeoTifa were the one's who started their own website devoted to indying their game. Of course, I haven't seen them around lately either. Also Zerobu, who recently took over the dead Project N00b, but has since disappeared. Jirito is usually fond of doing whatever artwork is requested for these projects but she's got work now. I'm really interested to the cover art she's been asked to design.


I'm still struggling to decide whether my own project should be an indie game or just a novel. No matter what I decide, I still have to figure out a way to connect the basic plot to actual storyline... I think I made this too big.

[Slothy]

I feel like I'm the only one among us actually willing to delve into such a thread.

I don't know. At the very least I think Pike might show some interest when she notices.

Get in here Pike!

[Pike]

I'm here and I'm interested. I've been wanting to look at GameMaker for a while and haven't got around to it. Maybe I should...

[Depression Moon]

I had tried in the past trying build stuff with Unity and UDK. I didn't really go anywhere with Unity. I was following a video on youtube, but this guy's code wasn't working. Tried to find out why it wasn't and never found out. I stayed with UDK a bit, but just doing that coding put me off it's so boring. I just want to do the designing.

LBP is more akin to how I want to design stuff. I've had way more fun and spent so much time on that man...

I'm going to have to go back to Unity or UDK though.

[Slothy]

Definitely should. It's quite easy to use. In fact, it's quite possible to make a game without using their game maker language at all and simply create the events and actions you want, drag and drop the appropriate behaviour for objects, etc. It even has a built in sprite editor, and if I'm not mistaken can load midi files (but screw that, any music I make will be a bit higher quality than that unless I run into performance issues I couldn't solve any other way). Building simple games is surprisingly easy once you find the right tutorials and guides and whatnot to learn it. FYI: there are a lot of bad tutorials out there for beginners. I think I managed to find most of them. The one I linked to is the best I've found and genuinely helpful and well laid out and explained.

It would be nice having more people around here doing stuff with it to so we could all help each other out and stuff and things. I think I'm actually going to grab the full licensed version soon too. It unlocks all of the features, some of which I already want to use, and it's not too expensive actually.

Edit for Depression Moon: I thought about trying Unity for a while, but decided against it for now at least. Fact is, I know nothing about making 3D graphics, and that wouldn't be the only steep learning curve I'd have to climb. I've heard Unity is actually quite easy to use, but for someone with a limited background in programming just starting out, I'd rather wet my feet in something I can learn a bit more quickly. The fact that Unity apparently doesn't do actual 2D graphics very well was also a downside for me.

I'd like to progress towards using it someday though because I like a lot of the ideas they have and their business model is pretty damn awesome, but I'll save that for once I have a few games under my belt, understand programming a bit better, and can learn to make at least some basic 3D graphics.

[Rantz]

I delved pretty deeply into GameMaker many years ago. It was actually my first foray into scripting/programming, I think. It was a neat piece of software back then, if rather limited. I'm a bit curious how far it has come in all these years. Is it well updated?

My most ambitious game projects so far have been in Flash, but if I were to make anything serious today it'd probably be built from the ground up. As for current projects, I'm working on a silly choose-your-adventure thing in PHP (yeah, I know... only because it's a non-serious project and it's probably what I know best).

I'm kind of wanting to code a nice solid engine for a specific game type, that could easily be used as a base for many different games. Maybe something akin to Ace Attorney games, that'd be a decent challenge that could still be pretty flexible without having to grow too huge. Start out with a very flexible dialogue mode, a point-and-click mode, a navigation mode... an inventory system with optional categories... make everything as extensible as possible so that it's easy to add new game modes and stuff. Should be fun!

[Slothy]

I delved pretty deeply into GameMaker many years ago. It was actually my first foray into scripting/programming, I think. It was a neat piece of software back then, if rather limited. I'm a bit curious how far it has come in all these years. Is it well updated?

Apparently the full version has some support for DirectX so 3D graphics are now possible. Not sure how viable that really is knowing that Game Maker can have some performance issues when you really load it down (or at least it did in older versions apparently). I'm not sure what other changes there may be, though that's the most obvious one from earlier versions. Still though, my planned project isn't super ambitious on a technical level so it should serve me well.

I should probably mention as well that a couple of friends of mine (one being my best friend who I was collaborating with on previous game development endeavours that were far more ambition than we had the time or ability to pull off) is working on a browser based 10-player Bomberman style game. Apparently it's coming along quite well so far and he's hoping to start play testing it with the 3 of us to start out sometime in the relatively near future. He asked me to make some music tracks for it too so I need to dig out my small MIDI keyboard sometime soon so I can get going on that.

[The Man]

I'm developing a scenario for the Marathon trilogy, a first-person shooter from the nineties which introduced a lot of gameplay and storytelling tropes that are now regarded as standard in the genre, but never really got much attention because it was Mac-only during the period when it would've garnered the most attention. The series probably has actually gained more attention in the wake of Bungie's creation of Halo than it did during its initial incarnation.

The source code was released shortly before Microsoft acquired Bungie, and the engine has been under constant development ever since. (Notably, an update was released a few years ago that finally renders everything in true 3D). There is an editor for present-day OSes entitled Weland which I have yet to be able to get to run; I have been developing all my content using the old OS9-era editors, mostly Forge and Anvil (the source code to Forge was lost and so the new editors have had to be built from scratch). Unfortunately these have limitations like restricting maps to 1024 polygons (I'm approaching the limit on several of my maps) so I'm going to have to see about getting Weland to work.

I've been developing this scenario off and on for something like fifteen years. The fact that I lost the OS9-running laptop I was building the content on didn't help (I no longer have a functional desktop Mac that will run OS9). I posted an in-development version awhile back but the hosting space it was on disappeared, and I'm going to revise a lot of cringeworthy writing before I repost it. Seriously I was responsible for some truly awful writing that I'm just ashamed of now.

When I've brought it up to a standard where I feel it's not a complete embarrassment I'll post what I've got done. I have no idea if anyone here would even be interested in developing content for an FPS, but just in case you are, I've got a pretty goddamn ambitious one in progress that could probably use content from other talented developers.

[krissy]

i have worked a lot in unity 3d before and would recommend it to anyone. i guess some coding background is nice to have though.

i can also make music for you guys if you want. although my schedule is up in the air right now.

[KentaRawr!]

I made a rom hack of Final Fantasy once! ... It was awful and I deleted it! :D

[The Man]

I also made a romhack of Final Fantasy (VI) once. I wouldn't say it was awful. I still have it somewhere, probably. My intention was to retranslate the game but I gave up pretty quickly because I don't actually know Japanese (I was relying on RPGOne's version, Woolsey's version, and my own skills of literary interpretation). I also messed about with other things for the lulz.

[Slothy]

I have no idea if anyone here would even be interested in developing content for an FPS, but just in case you are, I've got a pretty goddamn ambitious one in progress that could probably use content from other talented developers.

I can't claim to be a talented developer, but I'd be interested to hear about this project and what you need. Like I said, I can't do 3D, but might be able to contribute some music. Possibly some sound design once I learn how to do it half decently.

And speaking of FFVI, I made the decision to use FFVI sprites as the base for my main character and any others I need. I took my first crack at him today for about the last hour. Happy with the colour palette mostly, I think. I want to tweak his proportions and anatomy a bit more I think, though it's tricky when you only have a few pixels to work with. And this is also just designing how he'll look when he's facing the camera. I'll still have to complete all of the animations that I'll need after which should be awesomely hard to get right.

I figured I'd go this route for two reasons though. First, I haven't done much drawing or anything in close to ten years and I'm still relatively inexperienced with sprites. Second, what better way to practice and study than to do it with some of my favourite sprites ever as a base to build from and reference for shading and the like? I'll share some of what I have once I run him through a few more iterations I think so I can get some feedback.

Tomorrow I'll probably set up a few basic objects and implement the controls. If I have time after that I may start work on a tile set to build the guys house with. That will be a bit more daunting. I'll still probably look at tile sets and backgrounds from other games to study how they did it, and also use some real world reference for the objects I'll need to make, but I plan on building his home from scratch myself. I know it's going to be a hell of a long process, but the practice will do me good.

[The Man]

The development thread is here (http://fools-gold.org/forum/showthread.php?t=37477). The engine is polygon-based so it doesn't actually take 3D skills to make levels. You do have to have some decent sense of architectural aesthetics though, obviously.

I'm still not 100% sure what I need, but custom graphics would be nice for obvious reasons. I have a race of aliens that I've just made into "shapeshifters" right now, but given the way the engine is programmed it's not actually possible to make them shift shape (though if I learn Lua well enough it probably would), so it would probably be better just to give them their own appearance.

Apart from that I really would like to give each environment its own unique appearance (it takes place on a number of different planets, most of which have never been seen before in the series' history) so someone who can create textures would be greatly appreciated.

Beyond that there's probably other things that could be done but I haven't thought about all of them yet.

It would be cool if you'd contribute; I'd welcome it.

[Goldenboko]

Game maker was my fucking joint dude. Loved that shit. Wish I still had my copy.

[Mercen-X]

I think I was introduced to GameMaker (unless it was something else) by someone on these very forums about a year ago. I've still got the useless thing on my computer. It has a pretty loading screen that provides a false idea of what one can create using it, but aside from the preloaded character graphics and "access"-style layouts, I found nothing useful in it. I figured I just didn't understand how to use but, unfortunately, there is no help menu. I mean the option is up there on the tool bar, but there is no help menu to be accessed. It's all very annoying. If anyone knows what this is (I think it has to do with RPGs)...

Anyway, as I've already said, I still don't know what I want my project to develop into. I'd be happy with it being translated into pretty much any genre so that it can not only be experienced/enjoyed by an audience but also interacted with. I think the best options are TPS/FPS, Fighter, RPG, Action-Adventure...

[Slothy]

I think I was introduced to GameMaker (unless it was something else) by someone on these very forums about a year ago. I've still got the useless thing on my computer. It has a pretty loading screen that provides a false idea of what one can create using it, but aside from the preloaded character graphics and "access"-style layouts, I found nothing useful in it. I figured I just didn't understand how to use but, unfortunately, there is no help menu. I mean the option is up there on the tool bar, but there is no help menu to be accessed. It's all very annoying. If anyone knows what this is (I think it has to do with RPGs)...

I have the feeling you may be thinking of RPG Maker since it's similarly named, but really unrelated to GameMaker. GameMaker doesn't have things like pre-loaded graphics as far as I know (the free Lite version certainly doesn't anyway) and I found it's help files are quite useful for explaining the various functions it has. I've never used RPG Maker so I can't confirm for sure it's what you're thinking of, but it seems likely given the similar names, and I know it does come with pre-loaded graphics.

GameMaker is essentially just an engine with a slightly more friendly user interface than most making it pretty easy to learn and dive into.

[Jiro]

Someone send Timekeeper a Mognet, he always enjoys fucking about on Gamemaker and shit.

[Mercen-X]

I gonna havta deleet at useless ing from my computer.

[Slothy]

Got a player character with some movement controls up and running in all of 2 minutes just now. Trying to figure out the right tile size for the environments right now. I'm thinking 24x24 since the sprites are 16x24. I'll post the first attempts at my characters tomorrow since I'd like some feedback, particularly about colouring them. That's always been my weakness in every artistic endeavor ever.

[Rostum]

Honestly, you're better off learning Unity...

[Slothy]

Except that I have no desire to work with 3D graphics. Unity simply was not made for 2D. So why would I use an engine which is far more complex than it needs to be for a task it doesn't even do very well?

[Jiro]

Someone just link me a RPG Maker download + quick tutorial. I need it for something.

[Rostum]

Except that I have no desire to work with 3D graphics. Unity simply was not made for 2D. So why would I use an engine which is far more complex than it needs to be for a task it doesn't even do very well?

It absolutely can be used as a 2D engine, and there are a lot of indie developers out there that praise it for those features. :)

[Slothy]

Sorry, but when I looked into it all I saw was people saying that it wasn't made for 2D and the simplest way to use it for 2D is to pretty much just use 3D graphics with a fixed camera to fake 2D.

So again, why would I waste my time right now making a simple project that I want to use sprite graphics with in an engine that isn't designed to make that as easy as possible, as opposed to an engine that was actually made with that in mind? It just feels a bit like I'm about to move to a new house and you're recommending I use a Ferrari to cart my furniture instead of a truck. Don't get me wrong, Unity is a great looking engine, and I absolutely plan on moving to it as I learn, gain experience, and progress in making games. But it is just not as suited to making the project I currently have in mind as quickly and simply as Game Maker will accomplish for me.

In other words, I feel Game Maker is the better tool for this specific job and possibly a few others I have in mind for making next. Sure, Unity is a better engine from an objective technical sense, but I already know Game Maker will do what I need, and I've learned enough to pull it off.

[Freya]

I'm currently working on a project. :D A visual novel. I am doing the art and writing while a friend of mine programs. I may have found a program that I can use instead but I may go his route. Although he is terribly busy with school so I might end up doing almost all of it on my own. We'll see. It's just in it's early stages.

[Rostum]

Sorry, but when I looked into it all I saw was people saying that it wasn't made for 2D and the simplest way to use it for 2D is to pretty much just use 3D graphics with a fixed camera to fake 2D.

So again, why would I waste my time right now making a simple project that I want to use sprite graphics with in an engine that isn't designed to make that as easy as possible, as opposed to an engine that was actually made with that in mind? It just feels a bit like I'm about to move to a new house and you're recommending I use a Ferrari to cart my furniture instead of a truck. Don't get me wrong, Unity is a great looking engine, and I absolutely plan on moving to it as I learn, gain experience, and progress in making games. But it is just not as suited to making the project I currently have in mind as quickly and simply as Game Maker will accomplish for me.

In other words, I feel Game Maker is the better tool for this specific job and possibly a few others I have in mind for making next. Sure, Unity is a better engine from an objective technical sense, but I already know Game Maker will do what I need, and I've learned enough to pull it off.

Well I was only suggesting it because I've heard nothing but good things for the 2D aspects, I've only ever used it as a 3D engine. So no need to get your undies in a twist it was just a suggestion based on my experience, I still think Unity is much more flexible and there's a good reason it's an industry standard (even using PlayMaker).

But if you're comfortable with GameMaker, then by all means go for it but I still think even for 2D it's a very limiting engine. :)

[Slothy]

I'm not trying to sound very defensive or anything, just trying to explain my reasoning. Trust me, in the future I plan to move on to Unity when I feel it's time and Game Maker is holding me back. Yeah it has it's limitations, and I'm aware of a lot of them, but it's well suited to the game I'm planning to make right now so there's no need for a more complicated engine at the moment.

If anything though I was more wondering if you knew something I didn't as far as using Unity for 2D because I know it wasn't really made to handle it natively and I had no desire to spend who knows how long trying to get it to work right now, especially when I don't have the knowledge of how to do it, nor do I even know how long it would take or how much effort. When my goal is to jump into making a game as soon as possible so I can quickly prototype and get something out so I maintain my interest in the project, all of the unknowns surrounding Unity put me off of it for now.

And even when I switch to Unity down the road, I think given the simplicity GameMaker offers it can make a decent prototyping tool for just quickly iterating on a basic idea.