I hate this game, why does anyone play it?

[escobert]

I think the thing that really bugged me the most with this game was having to listen to Tidus whine about EVERYTHING. Maybe reading it myself would have let me tolerate the game more. I really couldn't connect with any of the characters.

So for those of you who enjoyed the game, what did you enjoy so much? What made this game for you?

[ReloadPsi]

Because people don't notice blatant constant hand-holding and poor acting on account of their immense sycophancy until boom, FFXIII ends up the way it is. If there's ever a version of this out where you can skip the cutscenes I'll be playing with a self-imposed ban on weapons with the Sensor ability.

[Goldenboko]

I hated Final Fantasy X my first attempt, I didn't have a true appreciation for the game until I beat it. The story pulls itself together at the end, not at the beginning. Almost all the characters go through pretty believable changes and I feel that they are all very fleshed out throughout the game. But without making a 30-page essay why you should appreciate the game's story (which I don't have time for right now) I'll just bulletpoint the rest of the game that was done well.

Amazing OST. Seriously, Suteki Da Ne, Rikku's Theme, Tidus's Theme, and The Ending Theme are all great. Especially the Ending Theme, I can listen to that song over and over. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67p7h6Y-Xfg)
Great turn-based gameplay. The visible manipulation of who attacks when led to one of the more unique turn based games I've played.
Length - There was a lot to do in this game. Even more in the Internation Version.
Aeons. Seriously leveling them and using them instead of your party was pretty freaking cool.

[Mercen-X]

Some hilights from my experience: Perfecting the Jecht Shot. Obtaining Bahamut. Obtaining Caladbolg. I believe I completed the monster arena. Seeing the Magus Sisters ultimate attack. Using Anima's Overdrive.

I tended more to ignore Tidus's whining. My biggest peeve was that no one ever mentioned his name in dialogue because his name was changeable. Funny, being able to change names didn't stop Star Ocean from mentioning everybody by name.

[DMKA]

Honestly, Tidus doesn't whine any more than Cloud or Squall did. Everyone just noticed it more because Tidus was the first one to have a voice.

And really, Tidus is a guy who went from a life of luxury and fame in a glamorous shiny world into a foreign, destroyed world riddled with constant dangers and death, not knowing what the hells going on, and only ends up figuring out negatives about his existence (or lack thereof, rather).

Who wouldn't be more than a tad whiny in his position? I know I would.

That being said, Final Fantasy X completely blew me away the first time I played it, and I've replayed it several times since, and just started a new game last night, and am once again loving it. It's one of my favorite games of all time. I just love the story, the characters, the level up system, the battle system, the summons, the soundtrack, the scenery, and many of the boss fights are some of the most memorable in the series, for me. It's probably the closest thing to a perfect game I've ever played.

[Jiro]

Tidus was a brat. And then he got tossed into a completely different fucking world. And then he found a cute girl who he liked who was going to die. I think he had a whole lot of reasons to whine. But at the end of the day, he pulls it all together. I agree with GoBo; the characters all go through very believable changes.

[Freya]

Honestly, Tidus doesn't whine any more than Cloud or Squall did. Everyone just noticed it more because Tidus was the first one to have a voice.
That. They've all been whiny. 'CEPT ZIDANE! That's why he's the best. :kaoclove:

[Mirage]

I think the thing that really bugged me the most with this game was having to listen to Tidus whine about EVERYTHING. Maybe reading it myself would have let me tolerate the game more. I really couldn't connect with any of the characters.

So for those of you who enjoyed the game, what did you enjoy so much? What made this game for you?
What did he whine about?

Are you saying you wouldn't whine if your girlfriend was gonna kill herself? Are you some sort of cold hearted monster?

[Agent Proto]

I think I'm midway through my first playthrough of the game, but I'm not really even sure since I had put it aside for a long time. I can't say if I'm liking or disliking the game.

[Hollycat]

I've enjoyed the game so far through my playthroughs. It feels like the first final fantasy grew up, got a fancy new dress and learned to sing.
The story isn't terrible, Rikku is great (only in sweater form. Bikini Rikku is just asking for attention) and the sequel is fun.

[Citizen Bleys]

I keep getting bored a couple of hours in, too. You are not alone. This game is not worthy of the name Final Fantasy.

[ShinGundam]

I keep getting bored a couple of hours in, too. You are not alone. This game is not worthy of the name Final Fantasy.
I was bored from FFV so i guess it isn't worthy of the name Final Fantasy too?

[ReloadPsi]

I think the thing that really bugged me the most with this game was having to listen to Tidus whine about EVERYTHING. Maybe reading it myself would have let me tolerate the game more. I really couldn't connect with any of the characters.

So for those of you who enjoyed the game, what did you enjoy so much? What made this game for you?
What did he whine about?

Are you saying you wouldn't whine if your girlfriend was gonna kill herself? Are you some sort of cold hearted monster?

I think the point is he would've been fine reading about it instead, but James Arnold Taylor almost comes across as though he didn't like the game either and wanted us all to agree with him.

[Pete for President]

My fav game. Here goes, I'll keep it short:

Things at first glance:
Pacing is amazing. Environments and the world have more vibe than anything I've ever experienced in a game. Gameplay grows deeper and deeper as you progress. Characters feel natural and a lot of them (look past the Tidus-hate, story-wise he is not the main character at all) have very mature character growth.

Deeper stuff:
The amount & depth of modern day themes this game handles is insane: racism, religion, indoctrination, ruling the masses by ignorance, death, war, value of life, mankind and it's right/wrong use of technology.

That said, I would even go that far to say this game is on the same page as 1984 is. I think it's even better.

That's what makes this game time-less. It's a masterpiece. Literature. A reflection of issues in our world, presented in a way that is neutral while inviting you to make up your own mind.

[escobert]

My fav game. Here goes, I'll keep it short:

Things at first glance:
Pacing is amazing. Environments and the world have more vibe than anything I've ever experienced in a game. Gameplay grows deeper and deeper as you progress. Characters feel natural and a lot of them (look past the Tidus-hate, story-wise he is not the main character at all) have very mature character growth.

Deeper stuff:
The amount & depth of modern day themes this game handles is insane: racism, religion, indoctrination, ruling the masses by ignorance, death, war, value of life, mankind and it's right/wrong use of technology.

That said, I would even go that far to say this game is on the same page as 1984 is. I think it's even better.

That's what makes this game time-less. It's a masterpiece. Literature. A reflection of issues in our world, presented in a way that is neutral while inviting you to make up your own mind.

But you have to listen to Tidus talk and that makes me want to shoot myself! Maybe I should play the game on mute with subtitles?

[Nebulance]

My fav game. Here goes, I'll keep it short:

Things at first glance:
Pacing is amazing. Environments and the world have more vibe than anything I've ever experienced in a game. Gameplay grows deeper and deeper as you progress. Characters feel natural and a lot of them (look past the Tidus-hate, story-wise he is not the main character at all) have very mature character growth.

Deeper stuff:
The amount & depth of modern day themes this game handles is insane: racism, religion, indoctrination, ruling the masses by ignorance, death, war, value of life, mankind and it's right/wrong use of technology.

That said, I would even go that far to say this game is on the same page as 1984 is. I think it's even better.

That's what makes this game time-less. It's a masterpiece. Literature. A reflection of issues in our world, presented in a way that is neutral while inviting you to make up your own mind.

But you have to listen to Tidus talk and that makes me want to shoot myself! Maybe I should play the game on mute with subtitles?

Concerning what Pete said: pretty much why I always come back to this, ten years later.

Concerning Tidus' so-called whining... other people have said it best about how crazy it must have been to be uprooted from your world and your life, to be placed in a different one where you know nothing, and everyone you've ever loved and relied on is gone. I'd whine too.

[escobert]

it's not like the vocabulary, it's the voice. all of their voices. I don't want voices!

[Freya]

You nitpickin nancy!

[Goldenboko]

it's not like the vocabulary, it's the voice. all of their voices. I don't want voices!

Then mute it.

[Jiro]

Maybe in the HD remake they can give us an option for no voices!

[ReloadPsi]

it's not like the vocabulary, it's the voice. all of their voices. I don't want voices!

Then mute it.

I'd rather have a skip button. I want to PLAY the GAME. That's why I bought this GAME. Actually I'm proud of the fact I've never bought this game, that being the reason why. Unskippable cutscenes (or ones where the text crawls too slowly) are a massive dealbreaker to me.

[Goldenboko]

If you can't put up with pauses due to translation in speech in a game with one of the richest storytelling experiences I've ever had, you don't deserve to play it. :colbert:

[Nebulance]

I'd rather have a skip button. I want to PLAY the GAME. That's why I bought this GAME. Actually I'm proud of the fact I've never bought this game, that being the reason why. Unskippable cutscenes (or ones where the text crawls too slowly) are a massive dealbreaker to me.

OK, fair enough... but it's really more than just a game, kind of like the Metal Gear Solid Series. It's pushing the boundaries. It's more than just running around and pressing a bunch of buttons. It's about what you can take from it on an emotional level given the large number of subjects it covers. At least this is true for me.

[ReloadPsi]

Metal Gear lets you skip.


If you can't put up with pauses due to translation in speech in a game with one of the richest storytelling experiences I've ever had, you don't deserve to play it. :colbert:

You're outnumbered by the people who bitched me out for "not giving it a chance" I'm afraid, so I had to satisfy them (and prove them wrong that I "couldn't give it a chance") by playing it, which gave me the right to say anything I wanted about it. And it isn't a rich storytelling experience. The plot is predictable (I saw every twist coming a mile away because my IQ needs to be spoken in more than one syllable) the characters are annoying and even when the voice acting isn't full of pauses I don't want to hear it anyway. I want to smurfing skip it.


Concerning Tidus' so-called whining... other people have said it best about how crazy it must have been to be uprooted from your world and your life, to be placed in a different one where you know nothing, and everyone you've ever loved and relied on is gone. I'd whine too.
If I were directing a game with that character in, I wouldn't be sadistic enough to cast such a whiny voice actor. I at least found his Japanese voice far more tolerable, if only because I had no idea what he was saying.

[Nebulance]

Metal Gear lets you skip.



Yes, it does. But it really doesn't make sense to skip it, meaning don't expect to have any idea what's going on if you skip it.



You're outnumbered by the people who bitched me out for "not giving it a chance" I'm afraid, so I had to satisfy them (and prove them wrong that I "couldn't give it a chance") by playing it, which gave me the right to say anything I wanted about it. And it isn't a rich storytelling experience. The plot is predictable (I saw every twist coming a mile away because my IQ needs to be spoken in more than one syllable) the characters are annoying and even when the voice acting isn't full of pauses I don't want to hear it anyway. I want to smurfing skip it.



So you're claiming you're more intelligent than the rest of us because we enjoy the game? That's real mature.

It's like me denouncing your taste in music because I don't like what you listen to. For instance, I thoroughly do not enjoy rap music. But I refuse to sit here and criticize someone because they connect with it. It's art and it speaks to the person and gets them through their struggles, etc.

So, no I don't agree with your stance about getting so caught up in Tidus' voice and feeling the need to skip the scenes. But I won't tell you you're an idiot.

[Hollycat]

You're outnumbered by the people who bitched me out for "not giving it a chance" I'm afraid, so I had to satisfy them (and prove them wrong that I "couldn't give it a chance") by playing it, which gave me the right to say anything I wanted about it. And it isn't a rich storytelling experience. The plot is predictable (I saw every twist coming a mile away because my IQ needs to be spoken in more than one syllable) the characters are annoying and even when the voice acting isn't full of pauses I don't want to hear it anyway. I want to smurfing skip it.



Seven?

[Mercen-X]

You've misspelled that, Hippo.

[maybee]

Final Fantasy X has it's pros and cons. It's not as good as Final Fantasy IX imo and was a bit of a step backwards; but it does have it's highlights.

Pros > Good battle system, controllable summons, awesome music in parts, storyline goes to light to pretty much deep-thought provoking- and emotional. Auron, Lulu and Rikku.

Cons > Too linear, dreadful voice acting, dreadful villian compared to Kefka, Sephiroth and Kuja.

However I don't think that Final Fantasy VII is the most overated Final Fantasy, I think that title belongs to Final Fantasy X because it's usually crowned as a prefection golden crown of a RPG when it has flaws glore. I don't hate FF X though.

[Freya]

I actually really liked seymour as a boss. That guy was a bitch. He was all "i want Yuna ^_^ JUST KIDDING I WANT TO BE EVIL" you kill him and he KEEPS COMING BACK. Like wtf dude, die already. I ended up loathing him the first time I played. Sin never seemed like the big baddie to me. In fact I don't consider FFX to have a big iconic baddie. But I think that was the point. It wasn't so much about oh the party against this baddie. It was the party against ideals and the world they knew and grew up with. That made it seem much more thoughtful than previous incarnations. It was a different approach to the FF series. They all make you think but this one took a different approach to how they did it.

[ReloadPsi]

So you're claiming you're more intelligent than the rest of us because we enjoy the game? That's real mature.

It's like me denouncing your taste in music because I don't like what you listen to. For instance, I thoroughly do not enjoy rap music. But I refuse to sit here and criticize someone because they connect with it. It's art and it speaks to the person and gets them through their struggles, etc.

No, I'm just saying there were no good surprises in the plot and it didn't take much to see them all coming such as they were. Pardon my use of unpleasantness there, but what I meant was that I am not stupid and as such don't like to have my intelligence insulted (but if you really wanna see how I feel about that, ask me about the film Signs someday). As for skipping, I mean a second time naturally. Once you've played through a Metal Gear enough times you WILL want to skip cutscenes so you can get back to more full-contact sneaking action. The lack of skippability is why I'm never playing this game again because I already know the plot and don't want to waste the time. Again, I wouldn't even have played it at all if tons of people at the time hadn't browbeat me into it and I hadn't been 'spergy enough to care what they thought, but I have so I have every right to point out its flaws. If you can't disprove them...

As for how I could've wanted to skip everything: I ended up playing this game twice to shut people up, and in the meantime had seen a fair few other friends play through it, so yeah, I'd seen those craply dubbed cutscenes plen-tee of times. FFXII did a much better job. Hell, Metal Gear did a better job in 1998. There were no excuses.

[Shauna]

I don't understand the complaint about not being able to skip cutscenes. That was never an option in any FF before it, and having to sit through all those cutscenes again and again with every repeated playthrough is common to all the FFs preceding it. If you're going to complain about FFX not having it, then it's a complaint for all FFs, as this is not a "problem" localised to this game. It's not a reason FFX is bad, it's a reason Final Fantasy in general is bad.

You don't like the story - of course you won't like the cutscenes and everything that comes with it. I'm playing through FF7 for the first time. I find the story horribly dull, so having to sit through all the cutscenes and dialogue there is pretty awful. Heck, I can't even leave the room for 10 minutes for the cutscene to play itself out, because I have to progress it myself.

So yeah. Don't get it. xD

[ReloadPsi]

Well cutscenes (or "people standing around with dialogue boxes" in the much older entries) were very short in the first five games. In 6, 7, 8 and 9 I did eventually get tired of having to rattle the action button to skip dialogue boxes I'd already read about forty times before, but a turbo-fire controller with a bowl on the action button served as a passable solution for that while I checked my email or sent a text to a friend or something for a couple of minutes. Actually the fact I used a bowl made me hungry for cereal, heh. Even that lifestream sequence that I found rather dull after just the first time in FF7 only takes about fifteen minutes (still too long, though) with that technique, everything else is way shorter.

Yes, I do have films and TV series I've watched all the way through more than once, but after a while I just put them on as background noise while I do something else; I don't give them my full attention. I treat cutscenes in games I've given multiple playthroughs the same way. Unless I can skip 'em.

FFX's cutscenes occasionally let you cut off a line of dialogue but the pause still seems to be there as though they said the entire line anyway. There is no way to make them go by quicker. By FFX-2 they finally saw the damn light and added a skip function, so that's the game where I don't understand the complaints about its content :P

And like I keep saying, I was essentially browbeat into playing the game by my friends just so my opinion on it would be respected (people thought I would come around; they were wrong, and they've never used it since, with me now citing FFX as one of the games I use as my good reason not to give a game a chance if I instantly hate it... what really bit them in the ass was I was now constantly giving them advice with battle strategies because I had gotten better than they at the game in no time at all because it was so damn easy) so stop using the "shouldn't have played it" argument, because then I am roughly 412% certain you would instead argue that I couldn't knock it if I hadn't played it all the way through and "given it a chance."

Okay, you've earned it. I'm going to admit that I think a lot of the endgame content (dark aeons, other optional bosses and so on) is mostly really good, although some of the Sigil-earning minigames can smurf off and rot in a pit of cancerous AIDS flu.

[maybee]

I don't understand the complaint about not being able to skip cutscenes. That was never an option in any FF before it, and having to sit through all those cutscenes again and again with every repeated playthrough is common to all the FFs preceding it. If you're going to complain about FFX not having it, then it's a complaint for all FFs, as this is not a "problem" localised to this game. It's not a reason FFX is bad, it's a reason Final Fantasy in general is bad.

You don't like the story - of course you won't like the cutscenes and everything that comes with it. I'm playing through FF7 for the first time. I find the story horribly dull, so having to sit through all the cutscenes and dialogue there is pretty awful. Heck, I can't even leave the room for 10 minutes for the cutscene to play itself out, because I have to progress it myself.

So yeah. Don't get it. xD

Agree so much with this.

Why do you want to skip the cutscences anyway ? I mean, don't you want to know the characters, story and the world ?

It just doesn't make sense.

[Jiro]

Cons > dreadful villian compared to Kefka, Sephiroth and Kuja.


I can't even begin to understand how you came to this conclusion! Seymour is far from being a terrible villain. His motivations are definitely misguided. He wants to become Sin - or at the very least, just kill everything himself - in the pursuit of ending Spira's inevitable cycle. If you think about it, he's actually after the same thing the party wants, in a sense. But his means and the specific end that they lead to are all wrong according to, I think, most people.

But when you think about his background as a half breed and the sheer amount of torment he must have endured, then coupled with his mother's death, the identity crisis with his whole being half n half, and that. Then obviously his pursuit of power and oh man Seymour is actually a rather great villain. He's creepy, but suave. The whole of Spira loves him. I could easily compare his insanity to that of Kefka, and then point out the fact that at least there is a reason for Seymour to be a sociopath.

I could expand further, but really, I think Seymour is a far greater villain than people give him credit. Also, I defer to Goldenboko on all other points: this game is a masterpiece and we should learn to appreciate it more.

[Pete for President]

Cons > dreadful villian compared to Kefka, Sephiroth and Kuja.


I can't even begin to understand how you came to this conclusion! Seymour is far from being a terrible villain. His motivations are definitely misguided. He wants to become Sin - or at the very least, just kill everything himself - in the pursuit of ending Spira's inevitable cycle. If you think about it, he's actually after the same thing the party wants, in a sense. But his means and the specific end that they lead to are all wrong according to, I think, most people.

But when you think about his background as a half breed and the sheer amount of torment he must have endured, then coupled with his mother's death, the identity crisis with his whole being half n half, and that. Then obviously his pursuit of power and oh man Seymour is actually a rather great villain. He's creepy, but suave. The whole of Spira loves him. I could easily compare his insanity to that of Kefka, and then point out the fact that at least there is a reason for Seymour to be a sociopath.

I could expand further, but really, I think Seymour is a far greater villain than people give him credit. Also, I defer to Goldenboko on all other points: this game is a masterpiece and we should learn to appreciate it more.

Well said. I definitely agree on Seymour being a great villain and he indeed has the same goal as the party has. It's also pretty rare to see a villain be so friendly to the party (and all of Spira) at first, and Wakka's dilemma when you first fight him always gets to me.

I don't think I can appreciate this masterpiece more than I already do though, it's been my #1 fav game since I first finished it in 2003/2004...

[Jiro]

You're excused from stepping up your love then, Pete! :D

[ReloadPsi]

I don't understand the complaint about not being able to skip cutscenes. That was never an option in any FF before it, and having to sit through all those cutscenes again and again with every repeated playthrough is common to all the FFs preceding it. If you're going to complain about FFX not having it, then it's a complaint for all FFs, as this is not a "problem" localised to this game. It's not a reason FFX is bad, it's a reason Final Fantasy in general is bad.

You don't like the story - of course you won't like the cutscenes and everything that comes with it. I'm playing through FF7 for the first time. I find the story horribly dull, so having to sit through all the cutscenes and dialogue there is pretty awful. Heck, I can't even leave the room for 10 minutes for the cutscene to play itself out, because I have to progress it myself.

So yeah. Don't get it. xD

Agree so much with this.

Why do you want to skip the cutscences anyway ? I mean, don't you want to know the characters, story and the world ?

It just doesn't make sense.


Then like a fair few others you haven't been paying attention to what I typed, which I guess speaks volumes.

I suppose I'm now going to have to subject myself to a third run through this with a DVD recorder or similar just so I can isolate and point out everything that sucks about this game and show you why you are wrong and I am right. Of course the only person I know who owns it refuses to lend me it because I voiced that intention, plus I don't have - nor can I afford - a DVD recorder at the minute :P

[Nebulance]

I don't understand the complaint about not being able to skip cutscenes. That was never an option in any FF before it, and having to sit through all those cutscenes again and again with every repeated playthrough is common to all the FFs preceding it. If you're going to complain about FFX not having it, then it's a complaint for all FFs, as this is not a "problem" localised to this game. It's not a reason FFX is bad, it's a reason Final Fantasy in general is bad.

You don't like the story - of course you won't like the cutscenes and everything that comes with it. I'm playing through FF7 for the first time. I find the story horribly dull, so having to sit through all the cutscenes and dialogue there is pretty awful. Heck, I can't even leave the room for 10 minutes for the cutscene to play itself out, because I have to progress it myself.

So yeah. Don't get it. xD

Agree so much with this.

Why do you want to skip the cutscences anyway ? I mean, don't you want to know the characters, story and the world ?

It just doesn't make sense.


Then like a fair few others you haven't been paying attention to what I typed, which I guess speaks volumes.

I suppose I'm now going to have to subject myself to a third run through this with a DVD recorder or similar just so I can isolate and point out everything that sucks about this game and show you why you are wrong and I am right. Of course the only person I know who owns it refuses to lend me it because I voiced that intention, plus I don't have - nor can I afford - a DVD recorder at the minute :P

If you want to see someone rip FFX apart, just watch Spoony's review.

PS -- ReloadPsi: If you hate this game so much, why waste so much of your energy showing it here, a forum dedicated (mostly) to how much we love it? I understand the whole 'free speech/opinion' argument -- and I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it, but why waste your time? I highly doubt anyone will change their opinion after reading a few posts of negative/critical comments.

I just think there's got to be something else that you can spend your time on that won't fall on deaf ears, that's all.

This isn't to say I don't enjoy the discussion.

[ReloadPsi]

Honestly? I didn't actually agree with some of Spoony's points. Let's see...

His claim that Tidus was not the hero of the story is total BS; he appears out of nowhere and, largely by accident mind you, creates enough of a stir (largely because Jecht did so already when Yuna met him, leaving her a bit more incredulous than all the other summoners) that he ultimately forms a team of militant atheists to take down the evil church of Yevon. If Tidus had not been brought to Spira, none of it could've happened. In the sense he was suggesting Yuna was the true heroine, she was about as heroic as any sacrificial victim of any other religion with such practices that our planet ever had, i.e. not very; just an innocent victim.

Also his remarks about Seymour showed that he didn't seem to have grasped the plot very well. Seymour was half human, half Guado. Makes sense that his hair would be that wacky considering his father was a tree-headed thing, but Spoony bitches for many minutes about how ridiculously he styles his hair. I guess he was going for funny but it just comes off as ignorant. He also suspected Seymour headed Operation Mi'hen, when in reality the Crusaders did it without Yevon's input. Seymour just came to give his "blessing" to put the writing on the wall in what I thought was brilliantly cynical actually.

Uh... that's all I can remember :P I'd re-watch it and count more points that I disagree with but I'm very, very limited on bandwidth these days unfortunately.

Now to answer your other question: because the thread title is "I hate this game, why does anyone play it?" - I throw these points out to reinforce the validity of the question. If you have a problem with that then kindly direct it at whomever started the thread.

In all fairness I preferred X-2 for like a bazillion reasons, the main one being there's only one tutorial battle in the entire game and then it leaves you to figure everything out for yourself. Well, I say everything, but it's almost as easy as X was anyway.

[Nebulance]

Honestly? I didn't actually agree with some of Spoony's points. Let's see...

His claim that Tidus was not the hero of the story is total BS; he appears out of nowhere and, largely by accident mind you, creates enough of a stir (largely because Jecht did so already when Yuna met him, leaving her a bit more incredulous than all the other summoners) that he ultimately forms a team of militant atheists to take down the evil church of Yevon. If Tidus had not been brought to Spira, none of it could've happened. In the sense he was suggesting Yuna was the true heroine, she was about as heroic as any sacrificial victim of any other religion with such practices that our planet ever had, i.e. not very; just an innocent victim.

Also his remarks about Seymour showed that he didn't seem to have grasped the plot very well. Seymour was half human, half Guado. Makes sense that his hair would be that wacky considering his father was a tree-headed thing, but Spoony bitches for many minutes about how ridiculously he styles his hair. I guess he was going for funny but it just comes off as ignorant. He also suspected Seymour headed Operation Mi'hen, when in reality the Crusaders did it without Yevon's input. Seymour just came to give his "blessing" to put the writing on the wall in what I thought was brilliantly cynical actually.

Uh... that's all I can remember :P I'd re-watch it and count more points that I disagree with but I'm very, very limited on bandwidth these days unfortunately.

Now to answer your other question: because the thread title is "I hate this game, why does anyone play it?" - I throw these points out to reinforce the validity of the question. If you have a problem with that then kindly direct it at whomever started the thread.

In all fairness I preferred X-2 for like a bazillion reasons, the main one being there's only one tutorial battle in the entire game and then it leaves you to figure everything out for yourself. Well, I say everything, but it's almost as easy as X was anyway.


All I'm saying is that you're putting an awful lot of energy into it, after a while I don't see the point.

I agree about Spoony. He seems to have missed the point. It is funny to watch however. His comments about Wakka's weapon always crack me up.

[ReloadPsi]

I'm putting energy into it because I really do have a lot of contempt for this game. Even now I still get a lot of crap off some people for not liking it so I really have to give back. I know that's the people's fault and not the game but if the subject comes up I'm not gonna hold back. It boggles my mind that a game that spends most of its run giving you clear instructions on how to win every battle (and minimal options to the contrary until much later on, even if you picked the advanced grid) or constant padding with redundant unskippable dialogue can be considered good, especially an RPG, a genre that should be all about replay value.

I do like some games (Bubsy on the SNES, Metal Gear 2 on the MSX) films (Alien 3, Jurassic Park II) and TV shows (Dragon Ball Kai) that can be objectively considered crap (Bubsy is a cookie-cutter platformer with really dodgy jumping/falling physics that goes too fast for a character who dies in one hit; Metal Gear 2's backtracking sucks and the level design is utterly deranged; Alien 3 basically doesn't feel remotely like the first two films; Lost World turned a beautiful concept about seeing extinct creatures believably interact with humans into a basic B-movie plot about watching some annoying twats die; Dragon Ball's writing comes across as though Akira Toriyama likes to just pull stuff out of his ass at any given moment) but at least I'm willing to admit it.

[Skyblade]

Cons > dreadful villian compared to Kefka, Sephiroth and Kuja.


I can't even begin to understand how you came to this conclusion! Seymour is far from being a terrible villain. His motivations are definitely misguided. He wants to become Sin - or at the very least, just kill everything himself - in the pursuit of ending Spira's inevitable cycle. If you think about it, he's actually after the same thing the party wants, in a sense. But his means and the specific end that they lead to are all wrong according to, I think, most people.

But when you think about his background as a half breed and the sheer amount of torment he must have endured, then coupled with his mother's death, the identity crisis with his whole being half n half, and that. Then obviously his pursuit of power and oh man Seymour is actually a rather great villain. He's creepy, but suave. The whole of Spira loves him. I could easily compare his insanity to that of Kefka, and then point out the fact that at least there is a reason for Seymour to be a sociopath.

I could expand further, but really, I think Seymour is a far greater villain than people give him credit. Also, I defer to Goldenboko on all other points: this game is a masterpiece and we should learn to appreciate it more.

Well said. I definitely agree on Seymour being a great villain and he indeed has the same goal as the party has. It's also pretty rare to see a villain be so friendly to the party (and all of Spira) at first, and Wakka's dilemma when you first fight him always gets to me.

I don't think I can appreciate this masterpiece more than I already do though, it's been my #1 fav game since I first finished it in 2003/2004...

Seymour was bland. He was a boring, vacuous, non-entity. And somehow, when he dies, he just gets worse.

His motivations, in addition to being cliche, make no damned sense. Destroying Spira will not save it, and we see proof of that thousands of times throughout the game. Heck, Seymour is proof of it himself. He was destroyed, he died, and yet he is not at rest or at peace, instead he gets even more obsessive over his destruction goals. He's more driven, more determined, and more boring after he's dead.

Auron died, yet he wasn't at peace. Nor was Belgimine, Maester Micah, Maechan, or any of the hundreds of others of unsent we see throughout Spira.

And, no matter what your arguments of "oh, he's half-Guado, so that's why he looks like that", it doesn't change that his character design is frelling stupid. Nor, frankly, is it that accurate. His hair is far longer and more intricate than either any Guado or human character in the game. The Guado almost all have short hair, that, while styled similarly to a much smaller degree, don't match up with the far larger idiotic hair design Seymour wears.

He's a boring, cookie-cutter, stupid villain, and one of the worst, if not the worst, thing in the game.

[Levian]

Tidus is about as charismatic as a seagull, but everything else in the game more than makes up for it.

It's one of the best games of all time.

[ReloadPsi]

His motivations, in addition to being cliche, make no damned sense. Destroying Spira will not save it, and we see proof of that thousands of times throughout the game. Heck, Seymour is proof of it himself. He was destroyed, he died, and yet he is not at rest or at peace, instead he gets even more obsessive over his destruction goals. He's more driven, more determined, and more boring after he's dead.

He think he's assisting in the suicide of people who do not want it, but that he believes to have such a desire deep down. It made perfect sense to me, especially when you keep in mind most of the unsent are supposed to become fiends, not slightly pissed-off zombies. Even then, if he were Sin, he could just sit on any unsent that stayed human. Ain't no way they're retaining their form after that.

Also I'd argue that Maechen actually seemed very happy. He got to continue wandering Spira, learning about - or rather living - its history and recounting it to others. Sometimes learning and imparting knowledge can be a joyous, satisfying thing to do. Maechen seemed to be well into it.

Oh christ did I just defend the game again?


And, no matter what your arguments of "oh, he's half-Guado, so that's why he looks like that", it doesn't change that his character design is frelling stupid. Nor, frankly, is it that accurate. His hair is far longer and more intricate than either any Guado or human character in the game. The Guado almost all have short hair, that, while styled similarly to a much smaller degree, don't match up with the far larger idiotic hair design Seymour wears.

He's a boring, cookie-cutter, stupid villain, and one of the worst, if not the worst, thing in the game.

Oh man. Every time I find something to appreciate or defend about this game I'm proven to have been wrong. This game really is a huge turd innit? :P

[Hollycat]

Seymour = Necron.

[Freya]

Your opinion on his looks are not valid because seymour is a hottie!

[Jiro]

Saving something by killing it is not an original concept. Seymour just borrows it. I think he's a little bit misleading though: I would say he genuinely hates Spira. You have to remember that he suffered ridicule and mistreatment because of his parentage. A combination of payback and the cynical recognition that death and sin are the only certain things.

[dunk]

Saving something by killing it is not an original concept. Seymour just borrows it. I think he's a little bit misleading though: I would say he genuinely hates Spira. You have to remember that he suffered ridicule and mistreatment because of his parentage. A combination of payback and the cynical recognition that death and sin are the only certain things.


Meh, i think seymour just tryed too do what ALOT of villians are attempting just recently, *cough* ffxiii-2, naruto ect. *cough*, and thats just destroy everything so there is nothing = no suffering.

A selfish way of removing his own suffering, but also a big headed over powered maniac that thinks hes a god that needs too "save" the world by destroying it. Which in the latter sense makes him selfless.

[Forsaken Lover]

Saving something by killing it is not an original concept. Seymour just borrows it. I think he's a little bit misleading though: I would say he genuinely hates Spira. You have to remember that he suffered ridicule and mistreatment because of his parentage. A combination of payback and the cynical recognition that death and sin are the only certain things.

NONE of the FF villains are unique in any way. Seymour at least has a small claim to fame in being the only one in the series who has had the goal of saving the world. (Vayne wanted to rule the world. The Occuria were just in his way)

Ya know what I hate? People who bitch about Seymour and other villains wanting to mercy kill the world because they personally have had a lot of suffering.

Would people rather a villain who has no grievances with life and just decides to end it all because he read about children starving to death in Africa?

And I agree that Seymour's motives are not crystal clear. You might even say he has layers to his personality. I know this might be frightening to FF fans, since they love their one-dimensional crap-piles like Kefka and Golbez, but I feel it's a nice change in storytelling when writers realize complex, thinking animals have complex ideas.

Seymour isn't just out to end the Spiral of Death. He didn't just kill his father to gain his position as Maester. He has a grudge against those who persecuted him, whether they were guilty of it like his father or they were innocent like the Ronso. Remember the joy Seymour took in slaughtering them and tormenting Kimahri?

Seymour was not a pure angel of light looking only to save the world from its pain. He was after all a product of that pain himself. But THERE - there is the essence of a good character and good writing. To what extent was he motivated by revenge? Was he more driven by his hatred or by his own ideas of salvation?

Such character analysis and discussion is the very essence of fiction. I can get on here and tell you word-for-word what The Emperor was up to in FFII. There's nothing really to discuss; he's bland and unremarkable. But when multiple people can examine the same material and offer up their own conclusions and ideas, that is when storytelling really becomes something special.

For my part, I think examining Seymour's last words is a good indication of hiw feelings.
"But even after I am gone..Spira's sorrow will prevail." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i79KtH3peBU&t=2m30s)
(recommended you watch the clip)

The dialogue and the voice-acting suggests to me Seymour was quite....melancholy. He did truly believe Spira was "a land of suffering and sorrow caught in a spiral of death". However he was far from altruistic and my personal guess is that he had largely repressed his childhood traumas behind his rationalization of saving the world. So, consciously, he did believe he was helping, but subconsciously, he just wanted vengeance. It's intriguing to ponder to what extent each goal motivated him.

I could throw out another possibility as well. His mother's stupid reason for turning herself into Anima was so Seymour could gain acceptance from the people of Spira. Perhaps poor, twisted and deluded Seymour was still attempting to fulfill his mother's wishes.

I don't really believe that but I think the mere fact it's a plausible theory is yet more proof Seymour was a good villain.

[Forsaken Lover]

His motivations, in addition to being cliche,

Final Fantasy is defined by cliches. Play something else if it bugs you.


make no damned sense. Destroying Spira will not save it, and we see proof of that thousands of times throughout the game. Heck, Seymour is proof of it himself. He was destroyed, he died, and yet he is not at rest or at peace, instead he gets even more obsessive over his destruction goals. He's more driven, more determined, and more boring after he's dead.

Last I checked most people don't become Unsents after they die. It takes a lot of willpower and strength that I guess the average Spiran doesn't have.

[Goldenboko]

If you focus on Seymour as the main villian of this game you are missing the point of the game.

[Forsaken Lover]

Ya know, Seymour was a tragic figure but this game goes out of its way to make him un-sympathetic.

And I don't mean it makes him more monstrous. I mean it just makes everyone around him seem monstrous.

Listen to his darling mum.

I wanted to give him the strength to live by himself.

And so I becae a fayth.

But...

Because I let him taste power,

He began to thirst for more.

He was not satisfied with my aeon.

He wanted more.

More power.

What is she even talking about?! She became a Final Aeon ie. she is asking him to kill himself.

She is awful.

People on the net aren't much better when they point to him not going on his Pilgrimage to defeat Sin.

Child Seymour is not a monster because he chose not to commit suicide

Edit:
And let's make it even worse. From the prefly flashback in Zanarkand:

Young Seymour: No! Mother, no! I don't want you to become a fayth!

Seymour's Mother: There is no other way. Use me and defeat Sin. Only then will
the people accept you.

Young Seymour: I don't care about them! I need you, mother! No one else!

Seymour's Mother: I don't have much time left.

Translation: Kill yourself and then people will like you.

[Nebulance]

Ya know, Seymour was a tragic figure but this game goes out of its way to make him un-sympathetic.

And I don't mean it makes him more monstrous. I mean it just makes everyone around him seem monstrous.

Listen to his darling mum.

I wanted to give him the strength to live by himself.

And so I becae a fayth.

But...

Because I let him taste power,

He began to thirst for more.

He was not satisfied with my aeon.

He wanted more.

More power.

What is she even talking about?! She became a Final Aeon ie. she is asking him to kill himself.

She is awful.

People on the net aren't much better when they point to him not going on his Pilgrimage to defeat Sin.

Child Seymour is not a monster because he chose not to commit suicide

Edit:
And let's make it even worse. From the prefly flashback in Zanarkand:

Young Seymour: No! Mother, no! I don't want you to become a fayth!

Seymour's Mother: There is no other way. Use me and defeat Sin. Only then will
the people accept you.

Young Seymour: I don't care about them! I need you, mother! No one else!

Seymour's Mother: I don't have much time left.

Translation: Kill yourself and then people will like you.

but did they know that you die when summoning the final aeon?

[Freya]

I'm sure they probably did. It wasn't like it was a new practice and every summoner who had preformed the final summoning never came back so I'm pretty sure they knew. It was just something they didn't openly talk about.

[Forsaken Lover]

Also this is an interesting answer to a question I've seen a lot of people ask and which I've wondered about myself.

If Anima is Seymour's Final Aeon, why isn't she that strong?

The answer lies in the bond principle behind the Final Summoning. When she first was changed, Seymour obviously loved his mother deeply. But by the time of the game, he's so far gone that he no longer has the same bond with her. She also seems to be less than happy with her son. And thus the result is a drastically weakened Final Aeon.

[*Laurelindo*]

I think the thing that really bugged me the most with this game was having to listen to Tidus whine about EVERYTHING.
Well, rest assured that Tidus is way cooler in the Japanese version, he's basically Ichigo there.

[Forsaken Lover]

I hesitate to think of Ichigo as "cool."

But compared to Tidus, I guess he is.

Plus Ichigo used to be an alright protagonist in the Before Times.

FF needs a hero like Natsu though.

[*Laurelindo*]

I hesitate to think of Ichigo as "cool."

But compared to Tidus, I guess he is.

Plus Ichigo used to be an alright protagonist in the Before Times.

FF needs a hero like Natsu though.
Well, IMO Tidus is certainly cooler in the Japanese version, and during his narrative parts his voice is actually very soft and beautiful, and pleasant to listen to.

While I do think that the American voice acting is overall better, I always liked Tidus' Japanese voice much more.
But sure, he does sometimes come off as a whiny guy with an annoying voice even there, but his relaxed voice is definitely quite good.