The elephant in the room

[Old Manus]

Since the Square-Enix merger in 2003, FF-affiliated games have, by and large, ranged from mediocre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XII) to total hog tit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X-2).

The business plan seems to have started with 'cash in on the already successful games in FFVII and X by releasing needless spinoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compilation_of_Final_Fantasy_VII)', moved steadily forward to 'cash in on the franchise itself by releasing needless (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Dimensions) spinoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissidia_Final_Fantasy)', followed by a deft change of tack, and a decision that their offerings for the main series took too long to make and cost too much money, so instead they'd 'remake' the old ones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_IV:_The_Complete_Collection) and palm them off as exciting new titles, and finally, gave up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabula_Nova_Crystallis_Final_Fantasy) altogether (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV).

The question is not why, as the answer is that sweet, sweet consumerist money, but how. How has, in the space of ten years, the Final Fantasy series gone from a pillar of solid videogamesmanship and something that would provoke a respected "Ah, yes" when inserted into any 'great video game series' discussion, to just another one of those japanese game franchises, that can often be found mingling around the bargain bins and pre-owned sections of HMV, as something that would garner warnings such as "Go ahead and buy, but only if you're a fan of the series" in the footnotes of monthly magazine reviews?

Are you going to buy Final Fantasy XIII Type-0? There was a time when I would definitely look at it as something I'd add to my collection, if only on principle (I made this mistake for the last time when I bought X-2), but now, I'm not even considering it. I just know that it's going to be average.

EDIT: Some might say this belongs in general FF, but this is more a rag on Square-Enix, and I already put pointless thread 1 in there, so, in short, you're wrong.

[Alpha2099]

I certainly haven't gone ga-ga over much of what SE has put out of late. FFXII still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, so I keep to the older FFs and revel in the glory of what SE used to be. Maybe someday, though this day is nowhere in the near future, I'll give XII a try again, and if I like it then I will perhaps change my opinion about SE. But for the most part, I kinda agree with what you're saying, even though I didn't read all of it.

[ShinGundam]

'Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain"
- Chocobo :kakapo:

[theundeadhero]

I pretty much agree with everything in your post, Manus.

[Jinx]

wtf is Type-0?

[ShinGundam]

wtf is Type-0?
A little PSP game released last year, originally developed for mobile phones (NTT DoCoMo).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYzRqNjJgaw

[krissy]

IS THAT A MAGITEK ARMOR
THAT LOOKS AWESOME

[Sephex]

It's sad to see, but it has been happening for so long that I am used to it. To me, the downhill quality of Square-Enix hasn't been as bad as how most people perceive it, but I will not even attempt to deny that I don't get excited anymore for a new Square-Enix game. I think most of the reason why Square-Enix isn't as hot as it used to be is the very same reason why most Japanese game companies are: Stubborn eastern mentality. The culture as a whole just does not like change, and it usually takes something dramatic to shake them out of a funk in order to start on a different path.

It's kind of the same reason why I think Sony is so damn stubborn about using its own proprietary media storage BS they keep pushing with their handhelds. Seriously, the only thing that keeps me from considering to get a Vita is how expensive the memory units for it. However, that's a different discussion...

[escobert]

Are you going to buy Final Fantasy XIII Type-0? There was a time when I would definitely look at it as something I'd add to my collection, if only on principle (I made this mistake for the last time when I bought X-2), but now, I'm not even considering it. I just know that it's going to be average.

EDIT: Some might say this belongs in general FF, but this is more a rag on Square-Enix, and I already put pointless thread 1 in there, so, in short, you're wrong.

You actually bought X-2? :(

[Old Manus]

Hold me.

[ShinGundam]

Versus is supposed to be produced by the people who responsible for KH, right?
Are they also doing Type-0? It looks like it combines aspects of XII, DoC, and KH with a bit of RTS interspersed...
VS13 = KH1/2/TWEWY.
T0 = BCFF7/CCFF7/Sigma harmonics.

Its hard to track which people work on titles because teams aren't really that static so take it with a grain of salt.

[Raistlin]

I have no real idea "how," but I'll just blame it all on FFX-2. Square then got a taste of what could be squeezed out of a game, and realized how much money they were leaving in people's pockets by not making a dozen sequels and spin-offs of everything.

[DMKA]

I've yet to play a Final Fantasy game I didn't like, and Final Fantasy XIII sold faster than any other FF title ever, so I can't say I agree with you on your primary points.

I do agree that since the merger with Enix, Square has really been treating Final Fantasy the same way Disney has been treating their classic animated features for the last couple decades. Producing the rare, derivative new material while milking the hell out of the past, successful material.

Coincidentally, this began right at the time Kingdom Hearts came along. Hell, the KH franchise in and of itself is an example of the aformentioned. So perhaps, it's not so coincidental after all? :p

It's a working, profitable business model, but the quality definitely suffers, and to answer your question, no, I have no plans to play Type-0. Not because I think it would be of poor quality, but because aside of the core series entries and their direct sequels, I pretty much ignore all the other side FF games. :p

[Edge7]

I dunno, I was kinda excited for Final Fantasy Legacy/Final Fantasy Legends: Hikari to Yami no Senshi, I guess I'm one of the few. But yeah, I agree

[Del Murder]

I agree with Raistlin that X-2 is what started the idea of milking things and I think that was the point where SE shift its focus from creating new, innovative RPGs to trying to get the most out of what they had already done.

Yet, I still enjoyed each FF game I've played since that time. True, they were no where near as great as the Nintendo and PS1 eras, but I still had fun playing them. Calling them shit is subjective. Instead I would say that I don't agree with the direction they are taking the franchise. That being said, I would definitely get Type-0 if it ever came out in the USA and Versus XIII if that ever comes out ever.

SE fanboy 4 lyfe

[sabin101]

I really have not been excited about what square has brought out in a long time. For me final fantasy games used to mean something. It was fun and different levels to explore but lately it is as been just remake after remake. Like final fantasy 7 and 4 spin offs that have been milked over and over again. I would not mind having a final fantasy 6 remake but it just seems it has been really not good games. Final fantasy 13 and the sequel looks all pretty but I hear a lot of people complaining about those games. I do like playing the old games but once you play them over and over again it gets boring. I do miss those great games square used to come up with. I would love if square came out with a sequel for chrono trigger or the mana world. I am not holding my breath but it is wishful hoping. Here is the question does square really actually care about what the fans want because I have not seen it. When the fans asked for a direct sequel to chrono trigger square said for the fans to buy more copies of the ds game ugh. That does not sound like they care. I don't know if square will ever go back to the glory days when they had great games. I really don't know.

[Wolf Kanno]

Well honestly, it's because most of the people who made all those awesome games in the 90s left Squenix in the early to mid 00s. That's why a lot of the franchises started to slump and sag. I agree that making a direct sequel began the fall cause it pretty much proved to Squenix that fans would buy a lousy sequel for the sake of nostalgia and fanfare. So we've got most of the talent leaving, the rest being utilized poorly, and Squenix learns they can easily make a buck by slapping the FF moniker on a title and make way more money than the game is probably worth. It's pretty much Disney post-90s Renaissance but before Pixar started to make them change around a bit.

I mean their best selling franchise is a giant fan-fiction crossover story that 97% of its fanbase bought either for the FF cameos or for the Disney nostalgia. KH's success is largely due to profiting on the merits of bygone eras. Yes, it has evolved into something that can stand on its own legs but Squenix's marketing of the series makes it pretty much impenetrable to all but a few who have the money and time to play every nuance of the series.

The most profitable business move Squenix has done in the past decade was buying Eidos of all things. FF has pretty much been diluted into a shadow of its former self, no longer really embodying the bold creativity of its early days. What was once a series helmed by a bunch of creative guys just doing what they felt was cool and to make the best damn game ever is now been transformed into a franchise that must be created for maximum profitability.

X-2 and the Compilation were large milestones in the fall, but I feel the FFXIII trilogy is pretty much the next major change. I guarantee that FFXV will probably only have a 1/3rd of it's plot explained with plenty of plot holes and loose ends just so Squenix can churn out sequels to tell the "whole story". Expect each new numbered entry to be transformed into its own mini-franchise within the large FF franchise. You'll probably never see another standalone title for a very long time.

[VeloZer0]

To be fair to SE I think innovation isn't something they lack. They re-invent a unique battle system for every FF that comes out, prior to FF10 they really only ever made one change. I don't think that you can argue that they are afraid to experiment and try new things.

I think the problem isn't lack of innovation, it is lack of competent innovation. They are trying to innovate, they just don't know what the heck they are doing. That and milking the series. But I see that as a problem of the fans own making as much as anything else.

[Roogle]

Expect each new numbered entry to be transformed into its own mini-franchise within the large FF franchise. You'll probably never see another standalone title for a very long time.

That is where a lot of the money is made. There was a parody of Final Fantasy VI that featured consoles as the characters, and the PSP, who was meant to portray Kefka, said, "Remakes and sequels are all the public really wants." How true.

[ReloadPsi]

Ha, loved that parody.

I finally gave up on Square-Enix around the time one of my friends was playing Crisis Core and basically started telling me every little thing they'd either shoehorned in (Zack fell through the church roof too? And the Most Stupid Contrivance Ever award goes to...) or outright retconned (he tells me the monster doesn't break out of the tank in the Nibel reactor any more... thanks for decanonising the only ever scene in a video game that gave me nightmares) and rather than filling in some of the mysterious plot threads in FF7 they instead started making new ones. I'm actually so sick of what they did to FF7 that I now play the game in German, a language I'm not very good at, just so I can ignore most of the story and sit tapping the Circle button during dialogue and cutscenes while I watch something else, because while I still find the game fun I now think the story can go leap up an inbred chocobo's anus.

Hell, the only reason I played FFXIII was because that very same friend thought it would be hilarious to see me totally slag it off (originally I didn't wanna know and had no plans to even touch a copy) and yet I quite literally had to start yelling at him not to talk to me about FFXV yesterday. Unlike X, I shan't be playing that one through at all. I've done my time with the whole "giving games a chance" thing.